1. When considering blind arcs for A/C in vertical flights, if the altitude difference is 0.4 and the horizontal range is 1 hex, is vertical range > horizontal range satisfied?
2. If two A/C are in the same hex, how to determine wether anyone is blind to another?
1. Yes. A hex is 300 feet. 400 foot alt. difference is sufficient.
2. Not directly stated in the wD rules, but can be inferred from discussions of range 0 effects in rule 8.1 and Chapter 10.
Basically, any A/C ending a game turn in the same hex position as others is deemed to be behind any A/C that ended their move in that same position before the A/C in question moved.
JD
(http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1399682/blind-arcs) 12/07/2015
We have 3 planes, Spit 2, Emil 1 and Emil 2 (well there are more, but only these 3 matter to this case).
Initiative rolls were made, and were :
Spit 2 --> 8.9 from tailing Emil 3 who moves before everyone here
Emil 1 --> 7.3
Emil 2 --> 8.6
Emil 1 is in Spit 2's blind area, and no other Spit can see him, so Emil 1 is an Unsighted A/C (8.1.2). So by 8.1.2 he should move last.
Emil 2 is not in Spit 2's blind arc, but is in formation with Emil 1.
Emil 2 is in formation with Emil 1, so he can use his lead's initiative / rank.
a) So he can move at 7.3 (his lead's initiative), or rather keep his own 8.6 which is better and move before Spit 2 ? But then he would not move after Emil 1 which is weird as he is in formation with him.
b) Or does he moves after Emil 1, but then he moves as if Unsighted when he is not ?
So, when does Emil 2 moves ?
I tend to be inclined toward a), which seems to be the letter of the rule, but I fear I am influenced by the fact that I am Spit 2 in this game.
You are wrapped up in the value of the init rolls. Forget them. Stick to basics.
By the rules
Emil 1 moves last by virtue of being unseen." In blind arc" becomes his new init no.
Emil 2 is formation with unseen and moves after his leader. or "in blind arc b".
In short, they should move in the order that would apply if all AC were visible and emil 1 had rolled the highest init roll to go last.
JD
(https://groups.io/g/FW-Ref-Central/message/3271) 16/07/2018
B)
Emil 1 did NOT need to roll for Init because it is the only a/c in
the Unsighted category and always moves after Spit 2.
This is similar to where the leader is tailing and the remainder of
his element is in formation. They adopt the leader's Init and move
AFTER the leader.
Effectively, this is
Spit 2 8.9
Emil 1 8.9+
Emil 2 8.6 -> 8.9+ (In formation)
Wild Bill
(https://groups.io/g/FW-Ref-Central/message/3274) 17/07/2018
A conundrum!!!
He51 #1 and #2 are in the blind arcs of I-16s #1 and #3
The rules state that for aircraft to be unsighted they have to be in the blind arc of ALL friendly aircraft
I-16 #2 CAN see the He51s, so in normal circumstances they are NOT unsighted.....but, the I-16s don't have radios and I-16 #2 is out of formation, so how can he "update" their position for I-16s #1 and #3
So, the question is, should the He51s be classed as unsighted by I-16s #1 and #3 (and these two I-16s therefore move first) and then do initiatve rolls for the He51s and I-16 #2?
This is the problem with an ever expanding game system. The original games, OTR, ASP and WD all focus on an era in which radios were standard equipment most of the time. As we delve back toward 1935 we hit the crossover era from no radios to radios.
From a game designer's perspective, you want to acknowledge that bit of history, but without coming up with a complicated rule that requires players to waste time deciding who can see whom, and who can wave their hands or waggle their wings to create alerts.
I have not yet looked deeply at this rules problem. What I would say, off the top of my head, is that the easiest solution is to address this phenomena via the initiative roll system.
When you don't have a wingman to help you by radio..."Blue one, he's low in your deep six"... the result is a loss of SA for the pilot who has lost track of one or more enemy aircraft. The question, what impact should that have? How big, and how to measure it in simple game mechanics.
In game terms, you can't just apply a negative init modifier for being blind to an enemy aircraft, because, you might not care. If I'm fighting three, have sight of two, and am attacking...is the lack of knowledge of the third going to impact my desire to attack? What if I was not aware of them in the first place?
Also, we must consider the existing rules and how they function.
So some thoughts off the top of my head...
For non-radio equipped A/C, keeping SA is tougher for the radio isolated pilot. So let's experiment with this idea:
1. If a no radio fighter A/C and all other friendlies are blind to one or more enemies, the enemies will move last anyway, no rules change required.
2. If a no radio fighter A/C is blind to half (rounded up) or more enemy fighters in play, -2 to his init rolls if regular or less, -1 if veteran, ace, or hero (even if regular).
Bombers in a fighters blind arc are not counted for this rule.
The init penalty does not apply if using a formation leader's init number or when tailing another A/C.
Let me know how it works out. There might still be time to get this in third edition. Also, it will give more reason for non-radio aircraft to tail friendlies or stay in formation....I think.
Also, Drew, can you post this on the ref central for added discussion.
JD
(https://groups.io/g/FW-Ref-Central/message/3280) 30/07/2018