Edwin Rutsch 1
Velina interviews Edwin
What was your experience of the Empathy Circle?
There’s 2 parts of it. I’m feeling a little divided as the facilitator to keep it on track, so I can’t just relax into it. I feel like i’m tracking all the different things going on, tracking the time. That affects my ability to reflect and to be fully present, so that’s just coming from a facilitator point of view.
I really enjoyed the connections and understanding happening (you and Jun were sharing real issues going on in your life). Seems like the listening and sharing was being supportive. I feel good about that since the support and the joy is really supporting someone in a positive way.
It’s very structured; there’s a lot of pieces to this. I’m concerned about all the pieces that can become overwhelming. My sense is that if we did this a bunch of times together, we could get really good at it. For someone new, there’s going to be a bit of a learning curve. Thinking about how to make it a smoother experience/learning curve.
What parts did you have trouble with and why?
There’s so much technology (technical environment), computer screens, sharing, trying to see two things, having to follow, moving from page to page. Very different from a shared physical environment where we see each other. I feel some benefits of it too. It’s pretty casual (you’re in your bathrobe). I like that part of it. Very accessible in terms of time and space.
I’m wondering if you need some support around the structure of the facilitation?
I could really use a “pre-circle” as a facilitator to be heard and empathized with to help ground me. Maybe 2 people who are familiar with facilitating this process could get together, and whoever’s facilitating could just be heard. I’ve seen this in other processes like conflict mediation (you get a little bit of empathy around you).
(edwin idea: have a co facilitator or a pre and post support circle for the facilitator so they can get some empathic listening. I enjoy Jun’s clear flowing transcriptions. They are very clear and in a clear narrative form..)
Is there anything technologically that could be done? Voice activated transcription program that could be transcribing. Timer on the screen could let people know there’s 1 minute left, etc.
The “flatness” you mentioned. It’s not just that empathic listening, it’s this secondary looking at different issues you had. I like that part about it.
I loved that there is that room to make it better. Anything else that you feel would make this better for you to minimize this stress for you as a facilitator to meet your need for a more empathic world? This is really a grand scale intention that you have.
Iterate iterate iterate.
How do other people feel about the iteration part of it? How can we design something that can inspire the participants to recognize the value of the iterations and get excited about it? rather than feeling like “Ugh, we have to do it again.”
That’s almost like a whole design challenge in itself. “Why or why not would you do this again?”
“Your concern as a facilitator is probably unusual because people are drawn to this for the emotional aspect and not as a designer. How do we balance that and get both sides to connect?” (time ran out here)
Your Name: Jun
Interviewee Name: Velina interviewed Edwin
Insight: Edwin felt divided as a facilitator having to keep track of the time, the structure, etc. This is affecting his ability to be fully present.
Technology was a bit of a frustration. Moving between screens, trying to follow, timers, etc. It also has advantages: casual environment, accessible in terms of time and space.
Learning curve for new people who haven't done empathic listening or human centered design before. Extra barrier with technology hiccups.
Need support around the structure of the facilitation. Pre-circle
Feedback:
Ease and support are big; the support was the big point.
Feelings
frustration
disconnect
difficulty
confusing
distracting
Needs
understanding
easy to do
communication
simple
support
ease
workshops/2015-08-06 no interview
I Like… - that everyone hung in there with doing the process and had such a supportive attitude.
Wish… - we had a whole set of tools and education material to support the empathy circle process,, videos, training material that address all the concerns that came up in this discussion,.
What if… - We have an easier first step to doing an empathy circle before going into the design component and find ways of working together going forward
workshops/2015-08-08 no interview
Brainstorming
need more training material. that explains the steps
Create a web page of empathy circle anxiety points.
gather a list and stories.
document them in writing
make a video of each aspect.
have baby step for the process so that people can get to know each other.
anxiety of meeting new people
workshops/2015-08-22 no interview
Chase interviews Edwin
Chase: Any breakthroughs
Edwin: How to get more ppl involved in their busy schedules. How do they create space for more empathy. How to get ppl engages is something that’s been on my mind as well.
Edwin was influenced by Lee-Anne’s question. He is trying to answer the question of how to engage more people in empathy circles.
C: How do you think ppl not as empathy-committed can develop the same skills?
I’ve interviewed trainers in different modalities - NVC and Focusing
The thing that engaged them and commit themselves: They were in a workshop and did some listening and they had never been heard in this way before. They noticed that it felt really great and they committed themselves to become trainers in empathy.
Edwin mediated conflict in his family with empathy circles. Edwin has pushed it, but the family hasn’t grabbed it and made it a core of their practice. He imagines Obama holding an empathy circle with others, to make it seem cool and legitimate it.
C: why do you think ppl are not excited about empathy or don’t see it as it cool to be empathetic?
E: Part of it is our culture is focused on promoting self interest. constant messages about how dangerous the world is and funding the military shuts ppl down. feels counter to culture norms to open yourself. need a community to shift the culture. need a community of people like us to shift the fear. series of wars have embedded so much fear that we don’t even remember life can be good and beautiful.
C: Why do you think the cultural has gotten so afraid and scared why do you think opening up is scary?
E: I talked with Lee-Anne about this. American culture is about withdraw. If you don’t like something, you move, you leave, withdraw. In families, problems get swept under the rug. American cultural rug is thick with stuff. People are afraid that if they air the stuff, it will open pandora’s box, ppl will lose control and all hell will break loose.
Chase Interview: Edwin
Insight: Our culture is filled with fear and it stops us from sad having real, empathic, connections with each other.
Our culture is missing out on a much more beautiful life.
Feedback: saddness,
Feelings
Hopeful
Disappointed
Curious
sadness,
Needs
A cultural shift towards having more empathic culture.
Universal empathy
Tiffany interviews Edwin
What was your experience of the Empathy Circle?
There’s a lot of responsibility to be the facilitator, a lot of details
I’ve done a few now and so I’m getting it
It was a little disconcerting to have you come in late and have to move
Background noise and people looking over your shoulder
A lot of little distractions.
This is about making the point that we really need to have the space to eliminate some of those; I need to explicitly tell people in advance; move that statement up
80% grounded; 20% technical issues and such
How do you propose that you’ll do that next time?
I’ll tell people very explicitly what the impact of lateness is on the group (SORRY!)
And more about needing a quiet space just so you and everyone will be more at ease
Share more of the background and what we’re doing
What worked for you?
I like that people are documenting. It’s so valuable
Being heard; I love to be able to share whatever and be heard and accepted
I tend to get detached and having the reflection in the beginning, helps me know that I’ll be heard and so I don’t withdraw or get disconnected.
When you get disconnected, how do you replug in?
Sometimes I throw off the energy by coming back in with too much emphasis
Empathic listening helps me to maintain that sense of connection. I do it in my relationship with my partner too.
What do you wish was different?
More upfront training.
You’ve all had previous experience, but I’m concerned that people without experience will feel awkward.
Want to have really smooth steps that people can do. More training with video.
I’ve got the idea for it and some raw materials; it’s a project, one of many
Is there anything about the participants here today that you would like to explore with us further in terms of this empathic circle?
We are business women in education; anything to explore there?
How might we bring empathy circles into businesses?
Maybe a whole series of empathic design workshops on specific topics?
Maybe people would like to do a whole workshop around something like Claudia was talking about re: meetings
Tiffany Interviewee dwin
Insight: create the environment, distraction of lateness, and moving. more up front training.
Feelings
frustration
Needs
ease for myself and everyone else
creating that space for fun, creative, positive energy
Intention
I want to create tools for fostering more empathy in the world. I’d like to make connections with people who value empathy and build a movement.
Bar interviews Edwin
What was your experience of the Empathy Circle?
It did feel two major experiences. One: I felt a lot of care and space. Depth of ease. because of the experience levels of empathy and Tim with design. I felt an ease that I didn’t have to hold it all. There was a feeling of jaggedness with velina being late, technical issue, inhibit the flow we’re behind now a half hour and not able to do the full iteration and feel sad about that. I feel excited about the topic of being recorded. Gaining insight about being recorded and beautiful information and insight how do we design this to bring in the issues of being recorded
What parts did you have trouble with and why?
I’m celebrating the process. Nothing is wrong. Everything is useful. Celebrate the failure. Not wallow in the failure. Fail early fail often. Succeed and grow. Really trying to incorporate that attitude.
I’m seeing that there is a lot of tools that can be created like video introduction material etc. familiarity to make the tools familiar and easy. It becomes less of an issue.
Need for steps and processes to make it smoother.
Bar is celebrating the “failure” embodies the spirit of NVC most basic understanding of life and the universe. Whatever happens is useful. NO right or wrong and to be with others that have that same attitude.
When Velina and I were in the park in Oakland celebrating the failure it felt good.
There was a point, I’m chomping at the bit, I was thinking when we do the empathic listening. Had to hold it back. Whole aspect of empathy and openness. For me empathy is about openness. Authoritarian government is trying to shut down that openness. If we do it in a hidden container goal is to open and bei in the world here we are and we are being honest and open to the world. Revolutions. Fearful constricted then gaining confidence as people get together
Jaggedness - timing/technical issues inhibited flow. Some frustration around this. Needs to not have the technology get in the way of the empathy discussion.
Bar Interviewee Edwin
Insight: Celebrating the process - nothing is wrong.
Everything is useful - celebrate the failure.
Feedback:
create a space for this.
turn frustration it into a positive.
Feelings
joy
excitement
Needs
understanding
acceptance
clarity
competence
contentment
appreciation
effectiveness
Brainstorming
Have more explanations of how recording is part of the free testing phase of the workshop. Every empathy circle will not be need to be recorded.
Create a whole webpage on the topic of openness and privacy.
Create a whole Mini empathy workshop on privacy vs openness and develop a document about the
Have a magic wand that makes the world safe place so that people don’t have to worry about vulnerability and safety
Make a documentary about this issue this comes
create an openness v privacy meter, how open or private do you feel at this moment?
Edwin: closed 1( ) 2( ) 3( ) 4( ) 5( ) 6( ) 7( x ) 8( ) 9( ) 10( ) open
subissies
Velina: closed 1( ) 2( ) 3( ) 4( ) 5( ) 6( ) 7( ) 8( ) 9(X ) 10( ) open
Tim: closed 1( ) 2( ) 3( ) 4( x ) 5( ) 6( ) 7( ) 8( ) 9( ) 10( ) open
Chase interviews Edwin
Chase: Any breakthroughs
Edwin: How to get more ppl involved in their busy schedules. How do they create space for more empathy. How to get ppl engages is something that’s been on my mind as well.
Edwin was influenced by Lee-Anne’s question. He is trying to answer the question of how to engage more people in empathy circles.
C: How do you think ppl not as empathy-committed can develop the same skills?
I’ve interviewed trainers in different modalities - NVC and Focusing
The thing that engaged them and commit themselves: They were in a workshop and did some listening and they had never been heard in this way before. They noticed that it felt really great and they committed themselves to become trainers in empathy.
Edwin mediated conflict in his family with empathy circles. Edwin has pushed it, but the family hasn’t grabbed it and made it a core of their practice. He imagines Obama holding an empathy circle with others, to make it seem cool and legitimate it.
C: why do you think ppl are not excited about empathy or don’t see it as it cool to be empathetic?
E: Part of it is our culture is focused on promoting self interest. constant messages about how dangerous the world is and funding the military shuts ppl down. feels counter to culture norms to open yourself. need a community to shift the culture. need a community of people like us to shift the fear. series of wars have embedded so much fear that we don’t even remember life can be good and beautiful.
C: Why do you think the cultural has gotten so afraid and scared why do you think opening up is scary?
E: I talked with Lee-Anne about this. American culture is about withdraw. If you don’t like something, you move, you leave, withdraw. In families, problems get swept under the rug. American cultural rug is thick with stuff. People are afraid that if they air the stuff, it will open pandora’s box, ppl will lose control and all hell will break loose.
Interviewee Name: Edwin
Insight: Our culture is filled with fear and it stops us from having real, empathic, connections with each other.
Our culture is missing out on a much more beautiful life.
Feelings
sadness,
Needs
empathic culture.
Universal empathy.
workshops/2015-08-26 no interview
workshops/2015-08-27 no interview
Chase interviews Edwin
Chase: Do you think empathy or any type of skill can be worldwide?
Edwin: Can we spread this kind of practice to 99% of the population?
Edwin: Yeah, I think emp circles could be spread pretty widely. I talked with Lee-Anne about bringing it into schools and families, and prisons, refugee camps in syria. 100,000’s of people are in those camps. Great place to do training with groups. They need to bring empathic listening into the culture. It’s where I am. I am hopeful. Empathy circle is not just listening, it’s the foundation. there are other pieces we can build on that foundation. I am optimistic. It’s what I’m working towards
Edwin: I would add: hoping it goes viral. that we train people who train people and it goes viral
Chase: What made empathy important to you?
Edwin: the thing that sticks out to me energetically is when i was your age, 17-18, i started travelling around the world, had romantic relationships. those deep connections and relationships that involved deep emotional level felt really good. i didn't have the vocabulary of empathy at the time, but that’s the force that brings people together. it integrates people, thinking, feelings, linking people emotionally and with a beautifully deep connection. it feels good to connect with people at that deep level. that deep soul connection and other things that benefit my family with empathy. people with walls up can come together and have a sense of felt connection even when in conflict
Chase Interviewee: Edwin
Insight: Edwin wants empathy and tools for fostering empathy (empathy circle) to go viral and he believes it can.
Feelings
Optimistic
Hopeful
Encouraged
Determined
Needs
Community
Empathy
Deep Connection