FRANK

Frank OLIVIER

Terwyl ek in 2004 Sterftekennisgewings nagegaan het in die Kaapstadse arief kom ek toe af op hierdie DERDE STAMVADER. Ek kon my oë nie glo nie en tog - Frank is in Frankryk gebore, dus die derde OLIVIER stamvader

Hier volg Frank OLIVIER se gegewens:

Frank OLIVIER * 18.03.1838 (uitgewerk volgens sy Sk) in Mentone, Frankryk. Sy beroep word aangegee as 'n afgetrede eiendoms-eienaar. (Retired Property Owner) Hy is oorlede op 13.03.1921 in Port Elizabeth, 5 dae voor sy 83ste verjaarsdag. Frank was die seun van Joseph OLIVIER en Ann Marie GAZIELLO.

Frank is in Port Elizabeth met Elizabeth GULLY getroud en hulle het 11 kinders gehad.

1. Joseph Francis OLIVIER + 1895 Hy het twee kinders gehad

2. Louis Bernard OLIVIER

3. Eugene Elizabeth GREEN * OLIVIER

4. Marie Theresa CANELLL * OLIVIER

5. Josephine OLIVIER Oujongnooi

6. Victor Patric OLIVIER + 1893 Ongetroud

7. William John OLIVIER

8. James OLIVIER

9. Eileen Imelda LUMSDEN * OLIVIER

10 Francis Beatrix OLIVIER

Die pragtige foto hierbo van Frank en sy gesin het Paul CONNELL 'n agterkleinkind van Frank vanuit Engeland vir my gestuur. Baie dankie Paul. Ek plaas ook sy e-pos hieronder om ook erkenning te gee aan Paul.

Ek ben Paul Connell, gebore in Port Elizabeth. Ek woon nou in England. Ek het 'n foto van het Olivier familie in ongeveer 1860 in PE. Hulle staan voor de huis "Casa Mentone" op 16, 1ste Laan, Walmer.

Frances Beatrice Olivier was my Ouma geweest. Sy het en Engelsman, Harry Connell getroud. Sy het 5 kinders, Ray (my Pa), Brian (as 'n baba gesterf), Beatrice, Tony en Stephen (in die 2de Wereld Oorlog gesterf)

Ek heb de foto bijgevoegd. My ouma is het kleine meisje, sittend op de vensterbank. Ek weet niet wie de anderen syn, maar ek dink hulle syn Frank, sy vrouw en de 11 kinderen, plus een andere, miskien het vrouw van de oudste seun (sy, sittend op stoel, het wit rok dra)? Iedereen (elke?) heeft de karakteristieke lang sterke neus van de familie Olivier!

De Togter van Eugenie (en sister van John Anthony Jones), Maureen, is nou Maureen van Staden, woon steeds in PE, maar ek het geen addres of telefoon nommer.

Die volgende briefie ontvang ek van 'n agterkleinkind. Sulke briewe maak net die ure se harde werk oor en oor die moeite werd! Baie dankie John.

Dear Sir / Madam

While researching my family I came across your web page regarding Frank Olivier from Port Elizabeth. I must apologize profusely for not addressing you by name as I cannot find it on the web site. This may be because my web browser at work does not allow certain graphics so I may not be seeing it.

I am John Anthony Jones born Germiston South Africa in 1955.

It has been a long time since you put that on the web and perhaps other Oliviers may have contacted you about Frank Olivier. He was my great-great grandfather. He was an ex-seaman who 'stopped off' in Cape Town and then made his way to Port Elizabeth to get away from the authorities as he had no formal leave to remain in the country and also so the story goes he did not want to do his military service. When he left Mentone it was Mentone with an 'e'. ie It was actaully Peidmontese ( more Italian than French ). In 1860 the whole area was given to the French in exchange for land from the Austrians and it became Menton. As the people of this area were not regarded as fully French they were used as 'fodder' in Algeria and they took families from this area to settle Algeria and men from this area to fight the 'Rif' as they were know in Algeria. Anyway he started a 'lighter' business taking goods from shore to ship by pontoon as the harbour in Port Elizabeth was not ready to take on big ships. The business was quite successful and he took on a partner. They tried to develop a harbour at Cowie River mouth and this turned into a complete disaster. He did make enough money to buy a number of small flats one which he called Casa Mentone and the other Villa Cannes. Most of the money went to his daughter Josephine who died in her ninteties unmarried.

His daughter Eugene Elizabeth Olivier married Victor John Green. They had 9 children and Victor John Green died in Prieska in 1912 aged 46. His wife Eugene Elizabeth Green ( Olivier ) lived to a great age and died in about 1965 and I did meet her as a very small child. There is a very interesting story in the family that she and her husband were on opposite sides during the Boer War. Although she was a Catholic and a very staunch one at that her combined French and Irish ancestry ( her mother GULLY was born in Ireland ) seemed to have moved her in the direction of the Boers. Her husband was a 'Scout' and the story goes that while he was away looking for Boer commandos she would signal 'safe harbor'. I don't know if this was true but she did tell me that the Boers were 'fine fellows' and that they always asked most politely for anything they wanted , especially apples for themselves and their horses. She told me the British just took what they wanted ' as though they owned the place' ( her words as I remember them as a 8 or 9 year old. They had a farm at a place called Kleindoornberg during the war and my historical research indeed reveals that this area was regulary visited by both Boer commandoes and British patrols. My Grandfather was born in 1895 in Port Elizabeth but his two younger brothers were born at a place called Omdraaisvlei so they must have moved on from Omdraaisvlei to Kleindoornberg. In 1903 the farm burnt down and the family moved to Prieska where my great grandfather died. After Victor John Green died the family changed their surname to Kisbey-Green in recognition of the help that Victor's mother in England ( She was a Kisbey ) had given them. Frank Olivier was not well disposed to his daughter marrying an 'Englishman' so he did not help her when his son in law died. So she had to turn to her father and mother in law in England for help. Of the 9 children they had 3 sons. Frank ( my grandfather born in Omdraaisvlei and Cecil and Bernard )

Frank ( now Kisbey-Green rather than just Green ) married the daughter of a Scotsman called Borland and had five children. These were

Francis Kisbey-Green born about 1926 ( died in 2010 ) Married a certain Beresford Genever-Stuart 3 children

Victor John Kisbey-Green born about 1927 ( died in 1987 ) had 7 children

John Kisbey-Green born about 1928 ( killed in an armed robbery 2 weeks before his retirement in 1992 ) had 4 children

Eugenie Elizabeth Kisbey-Green , my mother , born 1932 still with us married Frederick Joseph Jones so now Eugenie Elizabeth Jones _ had 7 children of which I am the eldest.

Josephine Patricia Kisbey-Green born after 1932 still with us , married a Mr Vaughn had 1 child.

It is interesting to see how some of the names were passed on. The only other Olivier I have ever met was one of my mothers second cousins , also named Frank Olivier , who fought in the war and married very late, without children. I have heard of one chap called James who became a Catholic priest then left that and married a woman with 7 children !!!!. But he was a 'Dees' so he must be descended from one of the daughters of Frank Olivier. Other than that I know very little about the other Oliviers and it does seem as if the Olivier name has dies out on this line but Frank Olivier did have many many descendants.

Thank you most kindly dear Sir or Madam , for putting that information on the web and once again forgive me for not addressing you by name.

Best Regards

John Anthony Jones

Paris France