Horror of NMGenWeb List
The Horror, the horror
The horror of Charles Barnum disrupting the NMGenWeb State email list
The Truth.
The NMGenWeb List was established 13 September 2003. The previous list was privately owned by Leon Moya. That list is subject to editing and I have no access to it. It is not reliable as a document. Here are all of the posts by Charles Barnum on the NMGENWEB email list. This list was open to the public! Many subjects were discussed, not just NMGenWeb.
Conclusions:
1--I made a total of 35 posts in three years. Most were, "Hello, how do you do?" messages to new CCs.
2--I need spelling lessons:
3--I state my opinions bluntly when asked.
4--I stand up to personal attacks.
Draw your own collusions:
From: "nmgen" <nmgen@trailnet.com>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] Hello
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:35:21 -0600
References: <009d01c37a44$7675eaf0$b11afea9@yourtwa0macjqu>
Welcome to all of you.
Notice that on this list, a reply is mailed only to the sender, while Reply
All sends the response to the sender and to the list.
Susan
Nmgenweb list
1--From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: [NMGENWEB] Hello
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:14:55 -0700
Hi Everyone,
Hope you enjoy the new list.
Charles Barnum
2-- From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] October 1 check-in
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:35:03 -0700
References: <002d01c38818$f8b94570$0501a8c0@wildhare> <000f01c388f0$593b6860$a09d76cc@default>
Lincoln County is still here.
Tip of the day. When deleting files stop working when you are tired. Last
night I was deleteing a series of old email addresses and I hit control +
enter (I think) to delete a string of them. But instead, it deleted my
entire address book !!!
Charles Barnum
3-- From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: [NMGENWEB] Cemeteries and Family Group Sheets
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:02:21 -0700
References: <004301c38f5b$0a4c3bf0$14822a40@hewlett2n8fn74>
Good morning.
Gary Webb has a nice web site at
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nm/topic/cemeteries = Cemeteries of NM.
I've known Gary for several years. I encourage anyone to send him your
surveyed cemeteries and any related photos. It would help NM researchers if
he could reproduce all of the cemetery surveys in the Archives. (As
information, on the Policy Statement appearing on the web site, I am listed
as a General Member to that site.)
The NM Tombstones Project is doing well. We are working on about 600 photos
at this time. Submitters should know that no special photographic imaging
skill is required to submit a photo. We handle the editing and re-sizing.
Those who know how to editing are encouraged to do so before submitting, but
it is not necessary. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~nmtombstones/
NM Tombstones is a project by Marcena Thompson, a NMGenWeb CC and a very
active NM volunteer genealogist.
The NM FGS Project: We are slightly ahead of other states our size in the
number of FGSs submitted. I hope we will break thru the 100 mark this coming
week. We have over 90 today. If you like to submit a NM FGS, there are two
ways. Visit the site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~usfgs/newmexico/ to see the
forms.
If there is substantial interest by NM CC's, I'd be proud to convert NM FGS
to a NMGenWeb Special Project. That will require authority from the SC to
rootsweb (or another host) for web space. The existing web space is owned by
the FGS Project. (I am the manager of the NM FGS Project.)
Have a great day everyone,
Charles Barnum
4-- From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: [NMGENWEB] Web News
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:38:56 -0700
Hello Everyone,
Last week I issued a challenge to NM Researchers to submit Family Group Sheets (FGS) to http://www.rootsweb.com/~usfgs/newmexico/ to take us over the top of 100 submissions. I'm very happy to report success. Researchers now have 111 FGS to view. I added a new search engine to the main page (Pico Search) I'll update it every month to reflect new FGS and names thereon. I'm very enthusiastic about NM FGS. This is a wonderful tool for researchers. I have allowed another manager to take over the very successful Kansas FGS Project so I can concentrate on New Mexico FGS. Send those NM FGS now!
The NM Photo project is doing extremely well. It now has photos from Mora County, Bernalillo County making 13 other counties. Over 600 photos are online and growing daily. Consider linking to the site from your County web site. Let us know if you have linked to it so we can return link. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~nmtombstones/ Send more photos too. Photos of graves without markers are also acceptable. Please give locations of photos submitted.
CWBarnum, CC Lincoln Co. NMGenWeb
5-- From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] beautiful --must share
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:47:37 -0800
References: <3F9CA188.65CCFE38@kingmanaz.net>
GB,
That is a very nice quote, indeed, Glory Bee. Family love shows up where
least expected. I just today learned that a cousin was in a local hospital
near death. I had no idea she was in this area. But her granddaughter found
my name on the internet and contacted me.
Your quote: "I wonder if you lived and loved, I wonder if you knew that
someday I would find this spot, and come to visit you." That is so true; I
will visit my cousin as soon as I get a response from her granddaughter for
more information.
Charles Barnum
6-- From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] Motion
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:36:54 -0800
References: <1069122374.3fb983466c593@webmail.ourbrisbane.com>
NMGenWeb
Below is one of the most improper motions I have ever read. The EC Committee
has already been created, and the Chairman assigned, and they put up a web
page several days ago. The motion is out-of-order. The second of the motion
is out-of-order and meaningless.
Does this motion and second of the motion mean that we are now using Roberts
Rules of Order to Conduct business for NMGenWeb?
NMGenWeb, as stated by the State Coordinator, does not have bylaws. States
that do not have bylaws must be governed by the National Bylaws. We have not
followed the accepted practice for constituting the EC that exists on the
National level. The AB or the NC always calls for volunteers to form a
committee and the reason for the committee to be created. After receiving
notification by the volunteers a decision is made by the Board or authorized
person in selecting the membership from those who have volunteered. That
procedure was not followed in the current instance. The EC was formed first,
without input from any others unless it was done in secrecy.
When is NMGenWeb going to start doing business honestly and above board?
When will NMGenWeb be an organization of inclusion rather than an
organization of exclusion?
I request again that the EC be disolved and a properly formed EC be created
after consideration of all interested parties.
I further request a clairification from the State Coordinator if NMGenWeb is
now operated under "Roberts Rules or Order".
Charles Barnum, CC Lincoln County NM
copy to CC Rep: If this illegal motion is allowed, I will amend my complaint
and include this issue for consideration. Please advise me if USGenWeb now
uses Sturgess Rules of Order or Roberts Rules of Order for conduct of their
business.
----- Original Message -----
From: <genizaro@ourbrisbane.com>
To: <NMGENWEB-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] Motion
Quoting Karen Mitchell <km1109@aculink.net>:
I hereby move that the New Mexico Election Committee consisting of
Harold
Kilmer, Angela Lewis and Pat Bennett, with Harold Kilmer acting as
Chairman
be accepted by the NMGenWeb CC's.
Karen Mitchell
County Coordinator, Taos County
I hereby second the motion.
Leon Moya
Mora County
From: Karen Mitchell
Subject: [NMGENWEB] Motion
Date: Nov 17 2003 8:36p
To: <NMGENWEB-L@rootsweb.com>
I hereby move that the New Mexico Election Committee consisting
of Harold
Kilmer, Angela Lewis and Pat Bennett, with Harold Kilmer acting
as Chairman
be accepted by the NMGenWeb CC's.
Karen Mitchell
County Coordinator, Taos County
7-- From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: [NMGENWEB] Re: Motion on the table
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 03:28:00 -0800
References: <003601c3ae3f$4a9afdb0$0401a8c0@wildhare>
Motion in NM to approve improperly formed committee
The motion below by Karen Mitchell is improper. It interferes with the rights of the State Coordinator. State Coordinators have a right to create committees. A motion to either approve or disapprove of the committee interferes with the State Coordinator's rights. No motion is required nor is it proper. A vote of "No" is improper as it interferes with the right of the State Coordinator to create a committee. A vote of "Yes" also interferes with the State Coordinator's rights as it imposes restrictions in that permission is required from the County Coordinators to create a committee. No state bylaw exists to support any claim of authority of County Coordinators to over-ride the rights of the State Coordinator in this matter. A vote to either affirm or deny is improper and absurd. No further action is necessary as this committee has already been created as stated by the State Coordinator on November 16, 2003 reading: ...
As State Coordinator, I hereby call for an election to choose a State Coordinator for the term of January 1, 2004 to December 31, 2005.
Our standing Election Committee will manage the process:
Harold Kilmer, Chairman hkilmer@plateautel.net
Angela Lewis gen4nm@nmia.com
Pat Bennett mzwhiz@mindless.com ...
Susan Stockbridge Bellomo
NMGenWeb State Coordinator
Any vote by the County Coordinators on this motion interferes with the State Coordinator's rights and is improper. I urge that no votes be cast by any NM County Coordinator on this motion. To do so will set a president for all future procedures.
The core question is one of improperly denying everyone a fair and impartial chance to fully participate in the affairs of NMGenWeb. The State Coordinator did not follow the precedents set by the USGenWeb. Since NMGenWeb does not have bylaws they must be governed by the bylaws and precedents of USGenWeb. Specifically, that the NMGenWeb membership was not informed that the Election Committee was being created nor the reason for it nor the extent of their duties. Other County Coordinators were not asked if they wished to be considered for membership in the committee. Therefore, they were denied their rights to participate. The NM EC was created improperly. A vote on a motion to affirm an improper procedure can not make it legitimate.
It is obvious that the procedure to create this committee was improper and denies all individuals the right to fully participate in the affairs of NMGenWeb. I will therefore and hereby present a Petition for Justice to the Advisory Board to halt Elections in New Mexico until a new and properly formed committee is seated, thus allowing all County Coordinators a chance to fully participate in the affairs of NMGenWeb. Then State Coordinator has all the authority required to correct this procedural error and should act before elections take place.
I am asking for assistance from the Board Members who are included in this email to advise me how to petition the Board for Justice. This is not a grievance. I am asking that the AB and NC halt elections in New Mexico until the State Coordinator takes steps to create a legitimate NM Election Committee by giving all interested County Coordinators a fair and impartial chance to be selected and seated on the Election Committee. All County Coordinators have an inherent right to be considered for membership on any state committee. A call for volunteers for the NM EC was not made presently nor in the past. Time is very short. Please advise me what additional procedures are required of me in order for the Advisory Board to act.
Charles Barnum, CC Lincoln County NM
BC: various
8-- From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: [NMGENWEB] NM FGS Update
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 03:44:30 -0800
Hello again,
I'm happy to report that we have received several new Family Group Sheets for New Mexico. NM now has 122 FGS online. This is a jump from last month. Please tell your NM friends about the NMFGS Project. A big Thank You to all who have sent in FGS !!
The NM Tombstone Photo Project has also added new photos. We now have 800 photos online. This is remarkable. If you have any cemetery related photos, please share it with us. If anyone has a private NM photo project, please contract me as we are willing to exchange links and offer any assistance we can.
Charles B.
9-- From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: [NMGENWEB] NMGW Election Wrap-Up
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:52:36 -0800
References: <010201c3b317$c0bb35a0$3594f741@DELILA> <5.1.0.14.0.20031126051318.00ba9568@pop.nmia.com> <006101c3bcef$568bbd30$b11afea9@yourtwa0macjqu> <000201c3bd05$249ad980$1594f741@DELILA> <000201c3bd18$07a64db0$b11afea9@yourtwa0macjqu> <000c01c3be01$ef043160$0b94f741@DELILA>
Thank you for your reply, Harold.
Greetings Fellow Members.
It was pointed out to me this morning that various emails that you have sent
as NM EC have some CC's email addresses missing in the "Addressed To" box. I
tried to figure out which were missing. I reproduced those addresses below
and then made a list from the NM State page to compare. (The added x's and
y's were an attempt by me to determine who was left-off the emails.)
Perhaps the missing people have asked not to receive further communications.
I do not know. But as long as NMGenWeb relies on a hit and miss email system
to communicate there will be problems of missed email.
I still have not received the email you said you send on the December 5,
2003-- 23 hours before the deadline for filing, and no other CC has said
that they received it.
I have not received notification of the results of the Motion by Karen
Mitchell that was seconded by Leon Moya asking for a vote to accept the NM
EC Membership. What was the result of that motion? Did it pass or fail? How
many CCs voted on it?
Does NMGenWeb have a web page that records all of the motions made in
NMGenWeb and the results? We say we operate on past practice, so it would be
helpful if we knew what those past practices are.
On my campaign page I have added "Term Limits" to the proposed Bylaws. Term
Limits will allow all interested CCs a fair chance to participate in
NMGenWeb. There are many capable CCs who can serve as ASC. The current ASC
has been here for how long? 10 years? This is not personal, just an
observation.
Lastly, you should excuse yourself from the position of NM EC Chairman. It
was after the 9-11 terrorist attack that you publicly compared me, Charles
Barnum, with the mass murders that destroyed the Twin Towers. Only one
person, other than myself, took public exception to your statement. That CC
gave-up his two county web pages soon thereafter.
USGenWeb Elections should be held above reproach. Appearances of corruption
must be avoided. No EC Chairman should make decisions that affect a
candidate when the EC has publicly compared that candidate to mass murders.
This is the last time I will address the general membership of NMGenWeb. But
I will maintain a campaign page for 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012,
2014, 2016, 2018 and 2020. I will also maintain a web page for proposed
NMGenWeb Project Bylaws. I'd be happy to discuss these proposals with any CC
belonging to USGenWeb or to NMGenWeb.
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nm/county/lincoln/proposedbylaws.htm
Since you are the permanent NM EC Chairman, Harold Kilmer, I am informing
you that I am a candidate for all future elected positions in NMGenWeb. You
may find my permanent campaign page on the Lincoln County web site or a link
thereon. I am also available to serve on any and all committees as a member
or as Chairman.
I have followed all of the accepted methods for voicing my concern. I first
asked the SC to consider my concerns. The SC would not. I then asked for a
formal grievance hearing at the state level. My request was denied. I then
asked for Formal Mediation. The SC refused to participate under the
procedures as specified by USGenWeb Bylaws. I've done all I can within the
system, but I will not give up. As my hero Paul Harvey used to say, "Stand
by for page two."
Charles W. Barnum
CC Lincoln County NMGenWeb
2002 Candidate for NM State Coordinator
Have a great Christmas Everyone and a safe New Year
10— From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: [NMGENWEB] Bylaws forward message
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:26:47 -0800
-------Original Message-------
From: STATE-COORD-L@rootsweb.com
Date: Monday, December 08, 2003 13:13:52
To: STATE-COORD-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: [STATE-COORD] Bylaws Revision -- News
(**Please forward to all appropriate project lists**)
The Bylaws Revision Committee (BRC) has completed a first draft revision of
Section 2 of Article XV. Amendment to Bylaws
Section 2. Members of any XXGenWeb may submit an amendment proposal
(in proper format with desired wording) to their State Coordinator for
review and presentation to the XXGenWeb membership by referendum. A 2/3 vote
of approval shall cause the proposal to be forwarded to the Advisory Board
to be posted on the national website and notice to be sent to the membership
via appropriate email lists.
All revision drafts may be viewed at http://home.mchsi.com/~sagitta56/
Members are encouraged to send comments or questions related to this or
other revision drafts.
**The BRC is seeking a volunteer to fill a vacancy on the committee.
Interested members please contact the National Coordinator or the BRC
Chairman.
11-- From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: [NMGENWEB] Family Grpup sheet Challenge
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:54:43 -0800
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usfgs/newmexico/
The NM FGS project is a USGenWeb Special Project, not to be confused with a NMGenWeb State Project as has been reported on other sites.
I am issuing a challenge to NM Researchers to submit 20 additional FGS this month. For every NM FGS submitted, I will submit one from my own family. This will put us well over 150 FGSs. I have received niece emails from researchers saying that the FGS Project is valuable to them.
Send those FGS this next week!!
Thanks to all for the success of the NM FGS!
Charles B.
12-- From: "Gen" <ryangb@nvbell.net>
Subject: [NMGENWEB] 14,000 Family Group Sheets
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:25:36 -0800
Update:
The USGenWeb FGS Project now has over 14,000 family group sheets online. If you have ancestors in other states, you may want to check the project home page at : http://www.rootsweb.com/~usfgs/ Some researchers have stated they have found new ancestors by using the FGS.
Update:
NM ALHN Project now has Five early birth records online. These are county public domain records. If you are interested in doing a county for NM ALHN, please contact me at charlesnreno @ aol.com for details;
see http://www.rootsweb.com/~nma/statepage.htm
You only need a word process or Notepad, Word, or Works to do this. Each county can be completed in a very short time. Full credit will be given to each county project coordinator by NM ALHN.
Update:
The Tombstone photo project is getting email from all over the world praising the great work done by all of the photo submitters. We now have about 1,500 photos online with over 4,000 in reserve. Photos from counties not yet online will be given priority for uploading.
Charles B.
spring is coming! get out the gardening tools!
13-- From: CharlesnReno@aol.com
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] Fw: [USGenWeb-SW] Next motion
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:35:08 EDT
Declaring Tim not in good standing is the most idiotic and ridiculous move in
a while coming from USGenWeb. We did not elect riot police to the Board.
This will be the second person found MNIGS if it goes thru.
With the ploys that some otherwise normal folk dream up at USGenWeb, it's a
wonder USGenWeb has any friends.
I wonder who owns and pays for "usgenweb.com, usgenweb.net and usgenweb.org" ?
Charles Barnum
========
In a message dated 4/18/2004 4:14:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
susanbellomo@yahoo.com writes:
FYI
Susan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bosque Lover" <nana321@earthlink.net>
To: <USGENWEB-SW-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 4:40 PM
Subject: [USGenWeb-SW] Next motion
Just want to keep you all informed--just in case you're not on the
Board-L list.
There is a new motion on the floor & I want to keep all of you informed
<g>
Motion 4-11 reads like this:
----------------------
It has been moved by Jan and seconded by Gail that Tim Stowell be
declared
a member not in good standing of The USGenWeb Project until he meets his
responsibility in updating the administrative information for the
USGenWeb.net and USGenWeb.org domains, in accordance
with Article VI, Section 6 of The USGenWeb Project bylaws and, more
specifically, with Motion 04-07 of the Advisory Board
----------------------
This is Article VI, Section 6 from
http://www.usgenweb.com/official/bylaws.html
Section 6. The Advisory Board shall also be responsible for
administering the domains, usgenweb.com, usgenweb.net and usgenweb.org,
over which The USGenWeb Project membership has control and for which the
members are the official lessees
This is Motion 4-07
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/BOARD/2004-02/1077591211
Bettie
SWSC CC rep
14-- From: CharlesnReno@aol.com
Subject: New Mexico County Maps
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 13:00:00 EDT
The 1895 NM County maps--based on a 1895 state map, have been uploaded to New
Mexico Digital Maps Library, a USGenWeb Project.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/newmexico/
Charles Barnum
15-- From: CharlesnReno@aol.com
Subject: Re: [USGenWeb-SW] [BOARD-L] VOTE Motion 04-14 --RE: suspending and reinstating
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:59:59 EDT
In a message dated 5/30/2004 4:48:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
susanbellomo@yahoo.com writes:
Our SW representatives are the people who get to vote. Let Bettie Wood
(nana321@earthlink.net) and Phyllis Rippee (wchs@getgoin.net ) know your
opinions.
Susan
++
This is another example of the Board's illegal actions. Here is what one
person said about it:
==
Removal hearings?
This came down the pike just as soon as Tim caved in and gave the
domains over to the Commandante. This is par for the course in USGenWeb
(punishing people for doing what you wanted them to do and going back on
agreements you had with them about doing it), and I know that Richard
believes heartily in the wholesale abuse of his power, but I am curious
why the others involved in this motion are being dragged in. Did they
openly support Tim or are they just collateral damage necessary so that
the Board can remove the GA state administration and refashion it more
to their own liking? Or are some of them running for national office
and this is a preemptive strike to keep them out of Richard's sandbox?
On the brighter side they have graciously returned Georgia and North
Dakota to the Who's Who list. That was big of them.
-Teresa
who can remember the days when Shari Handley would have crawled
through broken glass for Tim Stowell. Hell hath no fury...
===
Here is what another respected member said:
Fellow Georgians,
Not sure how many of you are subscribed to the BOARD
mailing list. For those of you who are not, here is the latest
attempt, by the Board, to help Georgia. (Or hurt Georgia)
Not sure which. It is an attempt to usurp the Bylaws. I am
sure some of you will cheer and some of you will not. I have
a fundamental problem with this action in that it sets a very
bad precedence for the Project as a whole. Once this can
happen in Georgia, it will set the stage for this type of hostile
take-over to happen in other states. Since North Dakota is
also involved in this action, it will become the norm.
I am not claiming any side in this action, but I wonder why
it is being done and how it can possibly be condoned as legal.
The Bylaws specifically say how an SC can be removed and
this completely defies that section.
I do not specifically agree with that section, since I don't think
the SC position should be for life. I think it should be mandatory
that all SC's stand for re-election and not be allowed to hold
the position, that is grandfathered by the Bylaws. But I do not
believe that using improper methods of removal is the answer.
I know this action may be good for some, but it also sets a
precedence for all states being required to reassign those that
were let go for various reasons. Some needed to be removed,
and some did not. But who's standard is to be used?
Below is the motion being offered to the Board, by Shari Handley.
Everyone should read it, and let your feelings and opinions be
known to your Representatives and Board Members.
....
God save the Project.
Ron
--------------------------------
You may read my views about this illegal action here:
http://www.dream-tool.net/tools/messages.mv?index+rebuttalspagetwo
Charles Barnum
Candidate for National Coordinator
16-- From: CharlesnReno@aol.com
Subject: Grant Co NM Births online
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:25:48 EDT
Delayed Birth Records for Grant County, NM are now online.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nma/grantbirths.htm
This is one of the largest lists so far in this series. Considerable
variation existed for the spelling of names. If you can assist in correcting any
spellings, it will be appreciated.
Also, In this particular county, the names of some towns changed, or at least
the post office service center changed which is confusioning. Some locations
vanished as open pit mines grew over them.
I hope this record sill be of use to researchers.
Charles Barnum
State Coordinator, NM ALHN
17-- From: CharlesnReno@aol.com
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] Grant Co NM Births online
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 13:10:05 EDT
In a message dated 5/31/2004 9:27:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,
CharlesnReno@aol.com writes:
Delayed Birth Records for Grant County, NM are now online.
==
Sorry about my last email. I meant to send it to New Mexico -L . I will
delete this list address from my address book so it does not happen again.
Charles
18-- From: Charles <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] the other NM website
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:09:41 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <40D9CB6E.E3450633@kingmanaz.net>
Hi Glory Bee,
My new email address is jcnreno@sbcglobal.net
I'd be happy to answer any questions concerning any web site created by me via private email. However, I have not created any new web sites recently.
I am currently building a new web site that will become effective after the close of the election. It is for the discussion of USGenWeb issues to find solutions, not scapegoats. It is for discussing ideas without the personal attacks, intimidation and slander that some people use to silence new ideas. It will have a moderated email list to filter out slander, personal attacks and character assassination. This will be an alternative to an existing email list that promotes hatred, lies, slander, personal attacks, and sorted bigotry against USGenWeb and individuals.
Election:
I highly recommend that voters consider voting for Don Kelly. Don is a proven leader, a man of integrity, honesty and is one of the hardest workers in USGenWeb with considerable experience in USGenWeb government. He does not associate with known haters of the Archives and rootsweb.com who wish to tear down USGenWeb. Don will make a great National Coordinator. This is an extremely important year for USGenWeb. Don't throw your vote away by not voting, or by voting for a person who can not win. Consider Don Kelly for your new NC.
Recent news:
I have for some time been in a discussion with rootsweb.com concerning discrimination by some county email list administrators. A minority of those county list administrators mistakenly believe that the county lists belong to them or belong to USGenWeb. But other people have joined in my complaint and we finally got a just ruling. Here is that ruling:
From: <vicki@rootsweb.com>
To: Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 12:42 PM
Subject: Purpose of County Lists
This is a reminder to everyone who maintains a county mailing list at RootsWeb:
RootsWeb does not create county lists that only promote one or two projects. Our county lists are for all projects to post relevant information. AHGP, ALHN, USGenWeb messages, etc. pertaining to the county, are permitted on our county lists. If this is not acceptable to you, please email listmaster@rootsweb.com with the name of the list(s)
and and we find a new list administrator for the RootsWeb list.
--
Vicki Thauvin
RootsWeb Staff
vicki@rootsweb.com
(end quote)
I welcome this ruling. Finally, once and for all, it declares that the county lists are public lists and not the personal toys of a few. I'm happy to know that the great majority of NM county list managers do not discriminate against any other projects like NM ALHN by misusing or restricting their lists. I do have a concern that some of the current NM County email lists currently have a tag line that reads, XXCounty, NMGenWeb. I hope all those taglines are removed or else they also include a tagline for NM ALHN and AHGP and W.O.W., NMGS, and all the other genealogical organizations in NM. Failure to do so is a form of restriction for which I will file a formal protest with rootsweb.com in due time to correct.
These county email lists are not to be confused with Project Lists, such as this list. Project lists come under different rules. Project Lists are for a particular Project; County lists are Public lists.
Charles Barnum
Glory Bee <richhart@kingmanaz.net> wrote:Another important and useful website was created by Charles Barnam
within the past 24 months, I neglected URL to save the URL to
favorites or to bookmarks or I renamed the website with an
unrecognizable name.
I would truly appreciate if someone could send to me the NM website
created by Chas Barnum..
Thanks
19-- From: "Susan Bellomo" <susanbellomo@yahoo.com>
Subject: Torrance County up for adoption
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:19:40 -0700
Thank you Charles Barnum and Edwina Frazier-Hewett for your wonderful volunteer service hosting Torrance County. Edwina is unable to continue as CC, and both Charles and Edwina have resigned.
Charles has very graciously given permission to use the materials on the current Torrance County Web site.
Are you interested in hosting Torrance County as CC? Please let me know: susanbellomo@yahoo.com. If you think you might be interested, take a look at the CC Guidelines on our national USGenWeb site: http://www.usgenweb.org/volunteers/CCguidelines.shtml. Questions? Please ask.
I am working on getting a basic Web site on line, but if someone is interested in doing their own, that would be great. Rootsweb has given us free Web space for Torrance County.
For those of you who are traveling, have a safe trip. Happy Thanksgiving a little early to you!
Susan
Susan Stockbridge Bellomo
20--From: Charles <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] RE: Welcome, Angela!
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:34:53 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <001601c59512$b24f7970$fd00fea9@patz>
Welcome Angela !
Charles Barnum
21--From: "Charles Barnum" <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Please welcome our new Colfax County CC!
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 13:34:20 -0700
References: <006501c5c207$59dca840$0401a8c0@wildhare>
Hi Kellie,
Welcome!!!
Charles Barnum, Lincoln County
22--From: "jcnreno" <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: New Mexico Database
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:38:40 -0700
Good Morning,
Subject: Proposed NMGenWeb Database Project
On or about 1998 I proposed that NMGenWeb establish a NMGenWeb database composed of data appearing on the county pages. It could be placed on the NMGenWeb home website. Counties could link to it and place the databases on their county pages if they wish. Counties would still display their individual databases.
I suggest again that NMGenWeb establish a State-wide database. I'm willing to serve as LC or project coordinator, format and arrange data that the CCs allow access.
The database can be alphabetically arranged by names, followed by the database source--such as Smith Cemetery, then by the data, etc. It will be in alpha order so a search engine is unnecessary. I can do all of the work, convert to the proper file types, and work with others.
I estimate it would take one year (or a little longer) to get the first database online. I could revise it once a year after that.
I'm currently editing a database titled Dona Ana County, 30,000 Vital Stats, (for NM ALHN). This will be online in five days. I have also completed a database for Lincoln County NM ALHN titled 10,000 Vital Stats which is online. I recently finished a 65,000 name database for Grant County(NM ALHN) using a similar method. Thus, I have worked out most of the bugs for doing this type of database which are county-based, but as I stated, the proposed NMGenWeb project would be Statewide-based.
Why would this help researchers?
A researcher could go to the State database to quickly find any name regardless of the county and without searching many different pages. After finding a subject of interest, they could refer back to the county where that individual was recorded for further research and to find other information.
Charles Barnum
October 23, 2005
23--From: "jcnreno" <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] New Mexico Database
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:37:57 -0700
References: <001e01c5d811$c10d38c0$220110ac@CHARLES> <002801c5d833$56cb1a50$2d9d76cc@Mitchell>
Karen and All,
I do not like the term "harvest".
I am proposing a database used with permission of the CCs, not an index.
Charles
24--From: "jcnreno" <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] New Mexico Database
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:19:48 -0700
References: <001e01c5d811$c10d38c0$220110ac@CHARLES> <002801c5d833$56cb1a50$2d9d76cc@Mitchell>
Does not seem to be much interest in the State database.
Have a nice day.
Charles
25--From: "Karen Mitchell" <km1109@aculink.net>
Subject: Charles Barnum
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:10:53 -0700
Charles,
I am the New Mexico State Coordinator. Once again you have presumed that you
have the right to tell someone what to do.
You do NOT have the right to tell any AB member, or anyone else, to remove
themselves from the NM list. Quite the matter of fact, I welcome them and
wish more would subscribe to the various lists throughout the project.
You will cease and desist this action immediately.
Furthermore, who is on the NM list is NEW MEXICO BUSINESS, and not for the
SW list.
Karen Mitchell
New Mexico State Coordinator
----- Original Message -----
From: "jcnreno" <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
To: <USGENWEB-SW-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: [USGenWeb-SW] AB Member on NM List?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently there is an AB member on the NM
list. That is the same AB member who called me
a name with copies to others, and the same AB member who on this list
suggested to the SC to remove me as a CC.
An AB member who is not a CC or on the staff of NMGENWEB violates the rules
of the new SC. Has he joined NM's staff? If not, I request the AB member
unsubscribe himself.
I will remain on the list as required but I will not post there in the
future until he is unsubbed.
Charles Barnum
(Background: From: Kellie Crnkovich <markkell95@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [USGenWeb-SW] AB Member on NM List?
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:20:49 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <003101c62cf1$1b2e56c0$8f9c0842@charley>
I don't understant this issue. From what I understand it is not a moderated list and it is the archives so anyone can read or join just because they are interested in New Mexico and what is happening with the NMGenWeb project in general. So if AB members are on or off the list all they have to do is go to Archives to read about it so why does it matter if they are on?
As far as I am concerned I don't care who is on the list as long as the list is productive. This kind of bickering is NOT productive.
Kellie
Colfax and Union County, New Mexico Coordinator
David Morgan <dmorgan1943@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
No problem, Charles, I would not want to be the reason that you refuse to
spread your nonsense on the NM list
I am not the only AB member on the NM list, by the way. It was just a
courtesy extended by the former SC and continued by the
current SC.
I will unsub in a few minutes so that you can post to your heart's content.
David Morgan)
Insert: To smart-ass David Morgan. I will spread any 'nonsense' to any list I wish. I do not need your permission or approval to do anything. I'm not afraid of you. You were the Board member who openly cheered on Karen Mitchell on the SW list to delink me. Stick your nose in some other state's business. That is all the Advisory Board is noticed for doing.
26--From: jcnreno <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] April 1st
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 14:00:35 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <000901c655cc$982356e0$219d76cc@Mitchell>
Lincoln Co.
dmorgan1943@hawaii.rr.com David Morgan Honolulu HI
CC Representative, SWSC Region - USGenWeb Project
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~dmorgan/
----- Original Message -----
From: "jcnreno"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 8:02 AM
Subject: [USGenWeb-SW] AB Member on NM List?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently there is an AB member on the NM
list. That is the same AB member who called me
a name with copies to others, and the same AB member who on this list
suggested to the SC to remove me as a CC.
An AB member who is not a CC or on the staff of NMGENWEB violates the
rules
of the new SC. Has he joined NM's staff? If not, I request the AB member
unsubscribe himself.
I will remain on the list as required but I will not post there in the
future until he is unsubbed.
Charles Barnum
27--From: jcnreno <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] April 1st
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 14:00:31 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <000901c655cc$982356e0$219d76cc@Mitchell>
Lincoln Co.
(Karen Mitchell required check in on the list. Previously it was permitted to do so via private email. Also previously list membership was not mandatory.)
28--From: jcnreno <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: NM LOGO
Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 06:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <20060520013851.20873.qmail@web80832.mail.yahoo.com>
Karen,
You mentioned that several pages were missing the NM Logo. Did you mean that each and every page of our web site needs to have the logo or only the main (index) page?
As for state guidelines, I'll not mention this subject again unless another CC brings up the topic. However, members should be aware that new Bylaws may be approved in the future that require states to have guidelines for elections and grievances. I would rather do it on our own rather than to be told to do it by the AB. A consensus of NMGenWeb members on guidelines is the most unifying single action I can imagine.
On other matters:
Here is a quote for Leon Moya that I think is most appropriate (Provided from Pat's incredible email archives.)
"So do I have any support to investigate the feasibility of a Smarter NMGenWeb Project?"
Those words echo their importance today. How can we have a Smarter NMGenWeb?
With the talent pool in this state I know there are many good ideas.
News: Lincoln County NMGenWeb has recently added several hundred Tombstone photos. This is not everyone cup of tea because of the work required and the web space it takes. This is very time consuming, but I have found a few tricks that can speed up the process. If anyone is interested in adding Tombstone photos to their cemetery listings, I'd be glad to lend a hand privately.
Charles Barnum
29--From: jcnreno <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] please correct
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:49:02 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <002d01c67ac8$e7403330$6c3e7941@Mitchell>
Karen Mitchell,
The NM Logo usage has always been optional. If you wish to change this, that is your option as SC since NM has no bylaws or guidelines. I believe it should continue to be optional. I request a vote by the membership prior to making any changes in NMGenWeb.
Please inform us what you mean by "my list." What list are you referring to?
Charles Barnum, CC Lincoln Co.
Karen Mitchell <km1109@ghvalley.net> wrote:
Hi County Coordinators,
In looking at some of the County pages I noticed that Susan is still listed as State Coordinator and the link leads to her email address. Could you all please check your pages and correct this. My address is km1109@ghvalley.net
Also, I noticed some pages without the official NM logo. I think we all decided when it was made that we would use it on our sites, but if I'm wrong please correct me. There's several pages out there without it. If you are not using it please let me know why so I can make a notation of it on my list.
Hope you are all enjoying your wonderful Spring weather, it's hot here in Colorado! And it looks like our drought is continuing this year.
Karen Mitchell
New Mexico State Coordinator km1109@ghvalley.net
30--From: jcnreno <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] please correct
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 08:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <005601c67aea$4aca36a0$6c3e7941@Mitchell>
Karen and All,
The logo was approved as the official logo. It was not required to be displayed, however. That subject was specifically discussed by Mr. Moya at the time that the logo colors might clash with some web page colors. It was up to the CCs to display or not.
Since NMGenWeb does not have a County Coordinators guide page on the state web site like most of the other states of USGenWeb, we can never know for sure what is policy and what is not.
I request that NMGenWeb establish a CC's page that specifically covers these subjects including the proper conduct of elections, voting, logos, updating web sites, and so on and that said requirements be approved by majority vote of the CCs.
(I have always displayed the logo, but that is my decision.)
Charles Barnum
Karen Mitchell <km1109@ghvalley.net> wrote:
Thank you Susan for your comments and for your support. I do appreciate it.
At the time the logo was designed, it was with the intent that it would be
included on the web pages that are part of the project, that's why it says
"Official". Many times some of us re-design our pages simply because we want
something new, and the logo may have been missed in the re-design. I don't
think it's an issue, it just shows unity of the members in the NM project.
Karen Mitchell
New Mexico State Coordinator km1109@ghvalley.net
31--From: jcnreno <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] New Post
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <008001c67b76$c9c64750$6c3e7941@Mitchell>
Karen Mitchell,
The string below has become to confusing to add another layer of response.
Instead, I'll answer here:
KAREN said:
***Then I fail to see the point of having an "Official" logo, if no one needs to use it. As I said, it represents the unity of the CC's in the NM project, and personally, I like that, I have no problem with it at all. (end)
Answer: The logo identifies the NMGenWeb project just as the USGenWeb logos identify USGenWeb. It does not represent unity.
Karen said:
***Do you have some written proof of this? Did you save the conversations so that you can present them? If so, please share it with us because that's not how I remember it at all. (end)
Answer: I have no written proof. Do you? The failure of knowing what was said one year ago or ten years ago is the very reason we need a web page of guidelines approved by the County Coordinators of NMGenWeb which will apply from one year to the next.
Karen said:
***When you become State Coordinator, I'm sure you will implement this.
But unless I have the majority of CC's ask me to do this, I don't think I will. We have always been low key and I did pledge to keep it that way. The New Mexico CC's are very unique in that they don't need a bunch of written rules and laws in order to build great web sites and offer help for researchers. I see no reason to change that. (end)
Answer: First: I have no desire to be the SC of NMGenWeb. Secondly: How do you know if the CCs do not want written guidelines if you do not ask them on this list? Your tone so far has not been contra-conductive for two-way communication. As a CC of NMGenWeb and a member in good standing in USGenWeb, I will continue to make REQUESTS to Advisory Board Members and voice my opinions on this and other forums.
Lastly, welcome to the new CC.
Charles Barnum
Please see *** below.
Karen Mitchell
New Mexico State Coordinator
km1109@ghvalley.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "jcnreno" <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
To: <NMGENWEB-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] please correct
Pat Bennet adds: From: "Pat Bennett" <mzwhiz@signalpeak.net>
Subject: RE: [NMGENWEB] New Post
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 18:27:23 -0600
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060519173521.01c95a00@POP.nmia.com>
After thinking I remembered what Charles was talking about, I dug around and found this statement on an email: "Official Logo??? Leon says no "official" NMGW logo. That's cool. I will always fly Art's original logo anyway." No date on it and I can't say who it was from, but I do remember this "policy" coming from Leon. Pat Bennett
(I was correct about this issue. This pissed Karen off. How dare I disagree with Her Majesty. Charles Barnum)
33--From: jcnreno <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: [NMGENWEB] New Post
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 18:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <002001c67ba5$c4b11e00$0300a8c0@patz>
Patricia,
Whatever misunderstanding I have had with members, I can say that you have been one of the most astute members of NMGenWeb.
Leon, a true founder of NMGenWeb believed in a hands-off policy for CCs. He did not require very much of any CC except to follow the National Bylaws.
That is all I want. I want fair and uniform elections, term to term, regardless of who is running. NMGenWeb has not had a single professional election that I can recall. Making it up as we go along is just not right. We need a uniform set of standards. Not restrictions, not marching orders.
The logo is a nice piece of art. I like it, but it was never made mandatory. If it is to be mandatory, we need to vote on it, and it needs to be stated in our guidelines.
Since I do not keep emails, I'd appreciate having a copy of Leon's message regarding this topic.
Charles
34—Background, Out of the blue personal attack:
From: Angela Lewis <gen4nm@nmia.com>
Subject: Professional Elections
Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 09:04:29 -0600
Good morning everyone --
Most of the CC's on this list have been around a lot longer than me, so I'm
sure you know what happened before Leon got the position of State
Coordinator for NMGenWeb. I came after he was already SC as I was one of
his recruits, and that was in mid 1999. Charles, you seem to forget that
you ran Leon out of office. True, he wasn't managing the helm at the time
but that's because he was recuperating from a quadruple heart bypass in
April 2000. While Leon was out, Capt Pat stepped up to the plate and took
care of things, and that's when I got really involved as I was taking care
of all the queries coming at state level. How strange to read your notes
of praise for Leon. In fact, I'm going to send him your particular email
because that'll probably give him a chuckle and lift his spirits. And yes,
I'm still quite close with Leon and we still keep in touch.
Then came the professional election that was held, complete with an
election committee of which I was a member. Everything was done on the up
and up, open and honest with all members. Susan was the only person who
ran for the State Coordinator's position and was elected. You raised all
kinds of commotion before, during and after this election for all kinds of
reasons, and then you wanted a vote anyway. Gee Charles, with nobody else
running that just doesn't make any sense and I really don't care what kind
of rule book you pull out of history. Speaking on behalf of many, I'm glad
somebody ran for the position!!!
Susan did a great job during her tenure and after her term ended, the next
professional election was held, and the same thing happened. This time,
Karen was the only person who ran for the position. Same results from you.
Everybody else in NMGenWeb has always been pleased with the leadership, and
the laid back way of doing business. So many of your emails want that, yet
in other emails you're demanding rules. Charles, I suggest you read your
emails thoroughly before you send them out as you continuously contradict
yourself.
I had told you once that I would get into the issues, but frankly this time
I felt that I needed to. Like I said, I haven't been around as long as
many of you, but I've been around long enough to have a memory of your
accusations and conduct towards Leon, Susan, and now Karen.
I recommend that you either run for office the next time (which you
continue to insist that you don't want) or quit giving the incumbents such
a hard time.
Thanks for listening,
Angela
NMGenWeb Bernalillo
NMGenWeb San Miguel
My response:
From: jcnreno <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] Professional Elections
Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 09:16:09 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060520083250.00ba8688@POP.nmia.com>
Not so Angela,
I always respected Leon. When he had his heart attack the bylaws called for an election. I wanted an election according to the bylaws. It's that simple. After he regained his strength he could have run for office again but he choose not to do so.
Had he run for office I would have voted for him.
You will have to find another villain. I did not cause Leon's heart attack. Clogged arteries from cholesterol buildup cause heart attacks. His decision not to run again was his alone. He was not in the habit of asking anyone for permission.
Again, the Bylaws are very clear. When an SC can no longer serve, an election must be held. Those are not my rules, they are the rules of USGenWeb. There is an AB member on this email list, anyone might ask her to explain this.
It is not strange that I praise Leon, I have the up most respect for him. We exchanged a number of private emails that you are not aware. He helped me in many ways.
As for voting, in my opinion there is no election if there is no vote. It's an American thing. If you do not like to vote, then don't vote, but do not deny me the right to vote.
Susan did a great job too, but I objected to the lack of structure in our elections. I object that we were not allowed to vote for the SC. As a CC I have a right to express my concerns about elections. I will continue to do so. This does not mean I am biased toward any particular person.
No, I will not run for state office. That is my decision, it is not up to others to decide that. But yes, I will continue to express my concerns.
I think it would be appropriate to list Leon Moya's name on the State page with his dates of service since he played an important part in creating NMGenWeb. I hereby formally make that motion now. Feel free to vote against or for this motion.
Thanks for your input, Angela. Feel free to launch personal attacks against me anytime. I will not respond in kind, however. Thank you for expressing them on this forum intended for NMGenWeb business.
Have a wonderful day.
Charles Barnum
(The clique chimes in:
From: "Harold Kilmer" <hkilmer@plateautel.net>
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] Professional Elections
Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 10:58:33 -0600
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060520083250.00ba8688@POP.nmia.com>
Angela your memo is 100%. Thanks for sending it.)
35—My last post; expelled two days later with no reason stated.
From: jcnreno <jcnreno@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: [NMGENWEB] Professional Elections
Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 12:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <003c01c67c3d$6af77790$0301a8c0@wildhare>
Susan said:
Every volunteer has the right to ask questions and make requests. When "requests" are not met, taking it to the national level as a demand for action and doing what the requestor deems is right does not foster cooperation, and it certainly creates stress for people involved.
Reply: When questions are ignored on the state level a CC has no alternative but to go higher unless they are afraid.
It is my opinion that more people do not enter into discussion because they do not have an interest in politics and they do not want to get involved in interchanges that have involved threats of lawsuits in the past.
Reply: I know of no lawsuit involving NMGenWeb prior to today. Is your statement a general statement or do you have specifics in mind?
One of the things I love most about our volunteers is the wide variety of talents we have and the amazing contributions we have made!
Reply: I agree.
Charles Barnum
Susan Bellomo <susanbellomo@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sorry. I meant to post this to the list. As I discovered, Reply sends a
response to a person who posted; Reply All sends a response to the list and
to the individual who posted.
Susan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Bellomo"
To: "jcnreno"
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [NMGENWEB] Professional Elections
Every volunteer has the right to ask questions and make requests. When "requests" are not met, taking it to the national level as a demand for
action and doing what the requestor deems is right does not foster cooperation, and it certainly creates stress for people involved. It is my opinion that more people do not enter into discussion because they do not have an interest in politics and they do not want to get involved in interchanges that have involved threats of lawsuits in the past. Intentions and effects are not the same thing. It is one thing to express an opinion and make a request. It is another to make demands and escalate them when no one else has expressed consensus. I've only been around since late 1996 or early 1997 when I took over Otero County. The Wild Bunch in NMGenWeb, in my opinion (based on the 9 years I've communicated with our volunteers) prefers to limit the bureaucratic underpinnings of the organization in order to use time and energy to help researchers and to put available information on line. The request has been made and noted. Now, let's get back to New Mexico genealogy on the list. One of the things I love most about our volunteers is the wide variety of talents we have and the amazing contributions we have made!
Susan
End of Susan's babble. To this day I do not know what she was talking about. Wild Bunch or Criminals?