Jeff Murphy - KYGenWeb BS
Jeff Donald Murphy Aug 28 1947 - May 20 2001
For many years some messages from Jeff Murphy, USGenWeb Founder, resided on GeoCities. With the demise of GeoCities on Oct 25 2009 we are preserving here the below page.
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/4708/kygenbs.html
Correspondence Relating to my Leaving KYGenWeb
X-Sender: trice@vci.net
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:13:34 -0500
To: kygen-l@sirius.dsenter.com
From: Nancy Trice
Subject: KYGEN: Ky Archives
Sender: owner-kygen-l@sirius.dsenter.com
Reply-To: Nancy Trice
Hi all... I've heard from several of you concerning the archives directories for the counties. I'm working on several things to get us going...
I. I will be establishing a mail list for us to discuss the archives without bothering those of you who won't be handling your counties.
2. I have made arrangements at rootsweb to obtain passwords for each of the counties for you. If your county page is already on the rootsweb server a password won't be required. Brian will set it up in your current directory where you can get to the archives directory directly from your county directory. If your county pages are not on rootsweb you'll receive an acct and password from Brian.
3. I have been working on a guidelines page and will have it up ASAP. I'll post a message when it's there.
I would like to request that each of the county coordinators send me an email ASAP indicating whether or not you want to handle your county archive directory. If you want to handle it as an extention of your county pages I need to know, and if you don't I need to know that as well so I can assign additional counties to those CC's that want them or find other volunteers to handle them. I don't want to give them to someone else if you want to handle it for your counties.
Please put Xxxx Archives in the subject line, and at this point a simple yes, no or maybe will do. If yes, let me know if you are on rootsweb now and I'll go ahead and tell Brian to get you set up.
For those of you with additional questions about the archives procedures, please visit the USGenWeb Archives Guideline page at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/timetodo.htm
The Ky guideline page I'm working on will also have a link to it as well as a few quidelines for the current setup for Ky.
Thanks guys,
nt
To which I responded privately:
At 03:13 PM 9/18/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I would like to request that each of the county coordinators send me an
>email ASAP indicating whether or not you want to handle your county
>archive directory. If you want to handle it as an extention of your county
>pages I
I suspect you know my answer. :-) If it didn't involve participation in USGenWeb, I'd do it in a Trice (you should pardon the expression).
I'm concerned, though, that you are equating membership in the KYGenWeb Project as de facto participation in USGenWeb.
X-Sender: trice@vci.net
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:01:42 -0500
To: Jeff Murphy
From: Nancy Trice
Subject: Re: KYGEN: Ky Archives
At 07:29 PM 9/18/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm concerned, though, that you are equating membership in the
>KYGenWeb Project as de facto participation in USGenWeb.
KyGenWeb is part of the USGenWeb project Jeff. That was accomplished when you were the state coordinator and established the USGenWeb project. The fact that you resigned as Ky state coordinator and US coordinator didn't change that fact.
How's that new baby doing? Glad it's you and not me... don't think I could cope with a little one again... or the 2am feedings... or the diapers... or the crying...
Later,
nt
My quick response was:
At 12:01 PM 9/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>KyGenWeb is part of the USGenWeb project Jeff. That was
>accomplished when you were the state coordinator and established the
>USGenWeb project. The fact that you resigned as Ky state coordinator
>and US coordinator didn't change that fact.
But Muhlenberg Co. is not part of USGenWeb. It is a part of KYGenWeb. And just because I have an interest in that county does not mean that I have an interest in supporting the USGenWeb Archives. So I restate my concern:
>I'm concerned, though, that you are equating membership in the
>KYGenWeb Project as de facto participation in USGenWeb.
Let's not be confused on this issue. At the point you decide that we have all become participants in USGenWeb, you leave me no choice but to disconnect myself from KYGenWeb. I will NOT be associated with USGenWeb, except as creator. It's a little moral blind spot, I know, but having morals has always been a problem for the leadership of USGenWeb, one way or another.
I encourage you to rethink your stance. It seems to me that you have confused which hat you are wearing at which time. No one doubts your enthusiasm for USGenWeb; you've made that clear. But you have to decide if it extends to each county coordinator under KYGenWeb. To me, it does not. My position in this is unalterable: I will have nothing to do with USGenWeb, period. It has become something to be ashamed of, precisely because of the way it has been mismanaged.
Are you trying to get me out of KYGenWeb? There is no surer way than to insist that I must consider myself to be part of USGenWeb. I invite you to leave me alone to manage Muhlenberg Co. as best I can. If you can't do that, let me know so I can make whatever arrangements I must.
X-Sender: trice@vci.net
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 11:45:18 -0500
To: Jeff Murphy
From: Nancy Trice
Subject: Re: KYGEN: Ky Archives
Jeff,
I have discarded most of the messages from the original kygenweb and usgenweb mail lists so this is from memory. Perhaps you still have them and can go back and pull out whatever messages are pertinent to the subject tho.
During the first couple of months of KyGenWeb we began having discussions about page requirements, logos, etc. As I recall, I was so enthusiastic about the project that I jumped in to give you a hand in any way I could to help make it a success. I remember that when I became the page evaluator committee coordinator, I was answering the same questions over and over again for the new people coming on board and set up the "rules" page where everyone could go for the basic information on the project. I put the page up and sent you an email to check it out and let me know if it met with your approval. (I have a copy of your response back to me that it was a good idea and the page was ok.) One of the requirements was that the KyGenWeb Logo was a requirement. Later, when you began the USGenWeb page, we began using the GenWeb logo and someone played with it making several different variations of it.
This is where I need help if you still have any of the original mail list... I recall discussion that everyone was encouraged to use one of the logos on their page and if and when an official USGenWeb logo was adopted everyone would be expected to put it on their page. As a result of the discussion it was incorporated into the original "rules" page. This was all during your tenure. (Although I don't have copies of the discussion that I can find, I know it took place since I would not have taken it upon myself to add it to the rules page without your approval since you were the head honcho at the time.) Several months after you resigned an official logo was voted on and adopted. I also remember some discussion that a link to the US page would not be a requirement since you would have a link to it on the Ky page and it was a requirement that everyone link to the state page.
My point is, KyGenWeb was made a part of USGenWeb by all of us during your tenure due to the above discussions. Most of us have become further involved with USGenWeb by becoming coordinators for other states and or counties. Some have elected to remain with just their original KyGenWeb county. IMHO, if anyone is part of KyGenWeb they are part of USGenWeb.
I'm not trying to get rid of you Jeff... I never have, and knowing how you feel I have not asked you to follow the rules established during your tenure about including the USGenWeb logo on your page, although I should have. I have "left you alone" as you put it, to manage it and your biography project.
If you still have any of the above discussions and can provide me with a copy of anything that shows that my memory on any of this is incorrect, I would appreciate it if you would forward them to me.
KyGenWeb is part of USGenWeb... that's a given, IMHO.
I hope that you will reconsider your position concerning the Muhlenberg Co page and KyGenWeb/USGenWeb. Your page has been a model for all of us and I would hate to have to unlink it and find another coordinator for the county, but that is up to you.
nt
So, given no choice, I responded in the KYGenWeb mailing list. After quoting from previous messages to show what the discussion had been up to this time, I wrote:
Goodbye, all. I see that I'm being removed from the KYGenWeb Project. It's been fun, right up to this point.
I hope those of you who link to the Muhlenberg Co. page will continue to do so.
As long as we have reached this point in our relationship, let me say a few things that may be of interest to those of you not exposed to the vagaries of USGenWeb when all the power politics were being played.
The creation of the KYGenWeb Project was based on two things: my successful Muhlenberg Co. page, and answer to prayer. (I'd like not to be obliged to say that, but I can't very well take credit for something when I didn't have the idea in the first place; so God gets the credit, and I get what I deserve pretty much, too.) When Bill Couch decided to imitate us with his Arkansas page, with my complete support and approval, he and I discussed going ahead with a comprehensive project that included every state. I encouraged him to do it, since I had my hands full with the details of the KYGenWeb Project; he said I should. In the end, I set up the USGenWeb Project, based on our success in KY.
In the process of developing USGenWeb, as Nancy said, many people from KYGenWeb supported the idea by taking other states or other counties within those states. But a new note of power politics was introduced into that project - one that has not reared its ugly head in KYGenWeb until now. The details of all this I have refrained from publishing, although you can look for a new page to appear shortly to cover that omission. Basically, a group of people decided they didn't like the way USGenWeb was being run, and thought the best thing (for them) was to remove me as head. These conspiring individuals were successful. I was in fact so hurt by the way it was done that I abandoned leadership of KYGenWeb at the same time, in order to remove myself from any participation whatsoever as touching USGenWeb. It was me who asked Nancy to take it over. I wanted nothing further to do with them. Since then I have refrained from mentioning them in our mailing list, or becoming involved in some of the USGenWeb discussions that have taken place here, when properly they belonged in other forums.
That was a year ago, last July.
Now the head of KYGenWeb tells me that I can no longer be left apart from the vagaries of USGenWeb - that KYGenWeb is a part of that, and thus all counties are a part of it. You can read what she has said herself, above. If she has to unlink my page, why, that is up to me. (Strangely, I would have thought that would be up to her.) But it is clear that she intends to do that, because I refuse to have anything to do with something I didn't create. And believe me, with USGenWeb in the shape it is in now, I didn't create it - as is. What I created bears almost no resemblance to the political entity that has become USGenWeb.
All this stems from the same thing that was the last straw in USGenWeb - the Archives. You recall Nancy wanted each of us to handle the archives for the county we coordinated. My response to that is what triggered all this. Did I ever mention how much I love the Archives? No? It's a great idea, but should never have been appended to the USGenWeb Project.
(That was the reason the KY Biographies Project was kept away from KYGenWeb: it didn't belong there. We all had enough to worry about without some archivist creating more for us to do.) Now the Archives have gotten appended to the KYGenWeb Project. How did that happen? If I was a John Bircher, I would claim the Council on Foreign Relations was
somehow involved.
The only thing I will miss is the feeds from the automated query system. I would feel bad about using that, but then I created the web page and the form to get the queries back to John. And the database of addresses used to distribute it. He created the distribution system. And if I can do it once for USGenWeb, surely I can replicate it for my own Muhlenberg Co. page.
Giving up Muhlenberg Co. is something I will *not* do. My father told the story about us kids and chicken: "I've retreated from the leg to the thigh, from the thigh to the breast, and from the breast to the ass-end of the chicken, and I'm damned if I'll give that up!" Same thing with Muhlenberg. Any attempt to replace my county - obviously the intent is there - with something inferior will be handled with my usual panache Muhlenberg needs KYGenWeb about as much as KYGenWeb needs USGenWeb.
To those of you who have been involved with KYGenWeb from the beginning, I cannot begin to properly express my appreciation of all you've done for genealogy. I get a lot of compliments for creating this thing, but we all know that I really didn't. It was a team effort, where each of us did the best we could to make our own counties work - and gave a little time to making KYGenWeb work too, over and above. None of this would have been possible without all of you. We did something together that we could all be proud of, that made our county pages more unified, and that brought a sense of unity to the genealogy of Kentucky. Together, we did something great. I would not like the history of this project to be lost.
At the same time, I would like to see the history of what is happening now to be retained in an accurate form. This is not my decision. It is Nancy's. I have done nothing different with my Muhlenberg Co. page since July of last year. Where is the mighty need to cut me off now?
But all this rhetoric gets us nowhere. I would hope that - in fact, I expect - that the Project will survive nicely without me. It was designed to survive the loss of any supposedly key member. I hope you all keep doing what you do best: managing your county pages for the benefit of KY genealogists. I intend to do the same. If I can't do it within the scope of KYGenWeb, well then, I can't. The tens of thousands of hours I've devoted to this and other web genealogical projects, joined with all the hours from all of you, have already helped. We have queries. We have lookup volunteers, those of us that weren't frightened out of it by later USGenWeb leadership. And most of all, we have a huge network of friends.
So, as I am sent shuffling through the door with my retirement papers handed to me, I think I should leave some vital parting words. Like Patrick Henry's "Give me liberty or give me death!" Or Nathan Hale's "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country." I have it: "Remember my dad's chicken!"
Oh, and one last thing. I don't believe it will do any good to try to argue Nancy into changing her position. So before both of you who were going to fire off that hot email do so, please consider the die cast, and move on. I am assuming I'll be cut off momentarily from the mailing list, so I won't see it either. Best wishes to everyone.
The following was the reply from Nancy, cc:ed to the mailing list:
X-Sender: trice@vci.net
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:41:55 -0500
To: Jeff Murphy
From: Nancy Trice
Subject: Re: KYGEN: Ky Archives
Cc: kygen-l@sirius.dsenter.com, billc@osage.astate.edu
Jeff... you do me a disservice. I DID NOT and AM NOT asking you to leave KyGenWeb. Further, nothing was said about you, or any other KyGenWeb county coordinator, having to assume the archives directory for their counties. Another volunteer can be found to handle any of the county archive directories, just as they were found to handle the KyGenWeb counties. There are several Ky county coordinators who have declined to handle the archives for their county or counties, for one reason or another, and that is fine with me. I have not said that being part of KyGenWeb means that anyone HAS TO embrace the Archives or be involved with it. I also did not say that anyone HAS TO embrace USGenWeb. What I did say, is that IMHO KyGenWeb is a part of USGenWeb and was made so by the discussions on the KyGenWeb project mail list during your tenure when you started the USGenWeb. If my memory on this is incorrect I again ask you to forward the appropriate emails to me. Even if this is not correct, I think the visitors to KyGenWeb and our pages associate us as being a part of the larger project, and as state coordinator for KyGenWeb and county coordinator for Hopkins Co. I certainly do. I think that most of the county coordinators do as well.
You said:
>>>Let's not be confused on this issue. At the point you decide that we
>>>have all become participants in USGenWeb, you leave me no choice
>>>but to disconnect myself from KYGenWeb.
I again ask you to reconsider. I DO NOT WANT to unlink your Muhlenberg Co page. I DO NOT WANT you to resign from KyGenWeb. I also don't plan on removing you from the kygen-l mail list at this time unless you ask me to. If you decide that you do not want to be part of KyGenWeb, that is your decision to make. I would assume that if you want to "disconnect" yourself from KyGenWeb you would remove the logo and KyGenWeb information etc from your page and unsub yourself from the mail list or request that I do so. If and when you do I'll unlink the page and find another coordinator, the same as I would do if any other coordinator decided to leave the project. As long as the page looks like a KyGenWeb page and you are subscribed to the state list and have not ASKED ME to unlink the page or unsub you, I'll leave it as it is.
I have asked you to reconsider and remain with KyGenWeb. If you don't want to that's your decision to make Jeff, not mine... and I won't stand still and say nothing while you try to make me out as the bad guy on this list with the other county coordinators.
As to the 2 others that Jeff said was ready to fire off a hot email to me, please do so... IF you are a KyGenWeb county coordinator.
nt
In the meantime, some of the peanut gallery was getting into the act:
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:38:53 -0400
X-Sender: durp@mail.one.net
To: Jeff Murphy
From: Pam Carey
Subject: Re: KYGEN: Ky Archives
Cc: kygen-l@sirius.dsenter.com
A little out of context, I know, but here's my impressions.....
The state coordinator wrote:
>>I hope that you will reconsider your position concerning the Muhlenberg
>>Co page and KyGenWeb/USGenWeb. Your page has been a model for
>>all of us and I would hate to have to unlink it and find another coordinator
>>for the county, but that is up to you.
And Jeff responded:
>>>Let's not be confused on this issue. At the point you decide that we
>>>have all become participants in USGenWeb, you leave me no choice
>>>but to disconnect myself from KYGenWeb.
Then he added:
>So, as I am sent shuffling through the door with my retirement papers
>handed to me ... snip
A bit dramatic, don't you think?
This was clearly your choice, Jeff - I quoted your own words. I don't see where anybody forced you to do anything. All the state coordinator did was ask for some help with one of her many monumental tasks. The mere mention of the word "Archives", however, got your hackles up and rekindled an old hatred that you haven't let go of. The fact that you can't let it go - is in itself very, very sad.
When we were asked to indicate whether we'd be able to take over for our county in the Archives, you could have simply said "No" - for any reason, and continued on as you have. Instead of 'acting', though, you RE-acted.
Since you like euphemisms, I'll leave you with one of my own: "Life isn't about what happens to you, but how you choose to REACT to what happens to you."
Nobody did anything wrong by asking for help with the Archives, and the request certainly wasn't directed at you personally, or intended to upset you. We all got a copy. It's obvious that you're the one who started this whole conversation - by jumping on the mention of the Archives, I'm sure You even made it the subject of your farewell speech. What's wrong here is your impulsivity and over-reaction, and the possible embarassment that anyone may feel because of your choice of words and actions.
For more than a year now, you've been nothing more than a county coordinator (again ... your choice). Other county coordinators have come and gone, but none felt it necessary to give a farewell speech ... I have to wonder why you did. It would almost appear that you were trying to embarass someone. I hope not. That would be pretty low.
As they say, we only get one shot at life. We can try to make it pleasant and productive, or we can wallow in self-pity and begrudge every slight - whether personal or not, real or imagined. Again, it all comes down to choices - and we each have to make them for ourselves. You've made yours clear.
In the past, I've been your fiercest supporter and defender. This time, my friend, I'm afraid you don't deserve it. This fuse has been sputtering for a very long time. We've all been waiting and watching for the "Big Bang". Why? Because anyone who knows you, knows that you haven't let the past go.Perhaps it's time for a clean break - perhaps it's best that you go. I just hope you're mature enough to do it quietly.
Pam
Did I do Nancy a disservice? I sent her this query privately:
Well, I honestly don't know where to go from here.
My reaction to your messages was based on several things:
1. You insist that KYGenWeb counties are a part of (and therefore under the administration of, to a degree) USGenWeb. That approach is absolutely intolerable to me.
2. In passing, when talking about not requiring me to conform to standards coming from USGenWeb, you said "Maybe I should have." What does that mean? I took it to mean that you intended to do so.
3. Based on that, there is no way (I felt) you could let me continue as county coordinator with KYGenWeb. You've made the point (#1) over and over again, with no apparent allowance for those of us who refuse to buy into USGenWeb. Hence my farewell letter.
4. Now you are saying you never intended to get rid of me, that leaving was all my idea, and that therefore the decision to remain is all my idea, or not.
So, I'm pretty confused about what you expect. If you don't want me out of KYGenWeb, why the insistance that I have to believe I'm part of USGenWeb? If I was in your position, and wanted someone to leave, and they had said they could not in conscience remain in the project under those circumstances, I'd hammer on that point, too. But you've said specifically you don't want me to leave. Why, then, do you insist that I must consider myself to be part of USGenWeb - which I've made clear is intolerable to me?
You've asked me to reconsider my position. Arnie Dodge suggested now is the time for conciliation. :-) He's a good guy. But there are some principles that are more important than "getting along". For me, this relationship to USGenWeb is one of those principles, as I've made clear from the beginning. I find myself unable to accept that as a desirable stance. Like Thomas More, you've placed me in a position where my silence on the subject is taken to be assent, and my conscience doesn't permit that. So there is no change of position that I can reconsider; until you made the point that every county falls under USGenWeb in a way that I could not ignore it, I was able to function within KYGenWeb. But I can't ignore this. It is a matter of conscience.
You don't want me to leave, but you won't permit me in conscience to remain. How is it my decision?
If you are unwilling to leave me the illusion of independence, you surely don't expect me to remain. Yet that seems exactly what you have asked me to do. How do you reasonably expect me to stay, knowing how I feel about USGenWeb?
And yet, you maintain that you have "not said that being part of KyGenWeb means that anyone HAS TO embrace the Archives or be involved with it. I also did not say that anyone HAS TO embrace USGenWeb." Well, it looks to me as if you have. If not, why have you asked for supporting documentation, if not to justify that position?
I'm not saying anything different here than I have said from the beginning. Your position seems to me to have changed. I'm going to put it to you the way you've put it to me: "If you don't want to that's your decision to make Jeff, not mine... and I won't stand still and say nothing while you try to make me out as the bad guy on this list with the other county coordinators." It is not my decision to make, Nancy. That decision was made long before, when I decided never again to have anything to do with USGenWeb or the individuals responsible for the coup.
Pam expects that I should "get over it". That's not going to happen. I view those people who screwed USGenWeb the way a father views his daughter's rapist. No one goes around telling him to "get over it". Rather they say, "Don't act on it." Watching you buy into USGenWeb's current approach to life as viable has been painful. I wish you would think it through before you drag KYGenWeb into the miasma too. Why do you think I'm so opposed to it?
YOU make the decision. Remember that my goal in all this is to support those things which are good for genealogy, and to oppose those things which will ultimately damage it. Permitting USGenWeb to die the long lingering death that has been inadvertantly planned for it by it's administrators over the past year is a lot less merciful than openly acknowledging that it has completely departed from its original goals, and that those departures are damaging.
Nancy responded to my message private message in private:
X-Sender: trice@vci.net
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:06:34 -0500
To: Jeff Murphy
From: Nancy Trice
Subject: Re: Muhlenberg Co.
Jeff... I say again it is up to you what you want to do. I did not ask you to leave and am not asking you to leave now.
Let me try to draw a parallel as to what my position is.
You are a resident and a citizen of whatever city, you live in. You are also considered a resident and citizen of whatever county and state you live in and of a still larger area... the United States. The fact that you live in Redmond and that Redmond is in Oregon makes you no less a citizen of the US.
The same holds true with KyGenWeb/USGenWeb. Your Muhlenberg Co page is part of the KyGenWeb Project. It is also a small part of the USGenWeb Project. That is the way that the entire project was created and the way that the visitors to all of the county pages and all of the state pages consider it. The fact that you have a problem with the management of USGenWeb, and now apparently with KyGenWeb, makes it no less so. You helped to establish the rules by which we would govern ourselves, both in KyGenWeb and USGenWeb. You say that the USGenWeb Project is nothing like what you created. That may be so. The project has grown immensely. It has experienced many growing pains during the past year, and all of us that are involved in it on a day to day basis have grown with it, learned from mistakes made, and gone on to make it what it is today, and despite what you say and/or how you feel, it is something to be proud of. The USGenWeb volunteers have created something bigger than even you ever dreamed of.No, it's not EXACTLY what you had envisioned, but that doesn't make it bad. I'm sure that the United States today is not EXACTLY what our founding fathers thought it would be either.
You over-reacted to my message the other day concerning the archives. I never suggested in that post, or at any other time, that anyone had to embrace the archives. What I did say is that I needed help with the archives and asked the county coordinators if they wanted to be the ones to handle the archive directories for their counties. You could have said no and let it go at that but you over reacted and fired back at me on the list. Frankly I think that was rather childish of you, and it was also childish of me when I fired back at you. As KyGenWeb state coordinator I should have kept my cool a little better, but that is all water over the dam now isn't it?
As to your question # 2:
>2. In passing, when talking about not requiring
>me to conform to standards coming from USGenWeb,
>you said "Maybe I should have." What does that
>mean? I took it to mean that you intended to do so.
One of the rules that was established within just a few weeks of the start of USGenWeb was that if and when an official logo was adopted for the USGenWeb project that it was to be displayed on our county pages. If I am wrong in my memory of that please send me the emails to show me, but I know I am not wrong because I would not have taken it upon myself to add that to the page. It was discussed and we all agreed that it would be a requirement. Several months after you resigned as National Coordinator last year a contest was held to select a logo for the project. I announced it on kygen-l, giving everyone the URL of where to find the logo and the variations of it and to add it to their pages and remove the Gary Hoffman logo that had caused so many problems. It was something that you did not do. Knowing how you felt when you resigned, I never pressed the issue with you, even when the evaluation committee brought it to my attention several different times. I should have. I should have told you then that your page was not in compliance with the rules that had been established, but I didn't. I kept hoping that you would do so out of respect for me if for no other reason. I'm sorry now that I didn't... I ended up giving many of the other county coordinators the impression that I was showing favoritism toward you and your Muhlenberg Co page, and I guess I was. I was trying my best to hold the project together after you tried to destroy it and I didn't want to rock the boat.
Now it's a different story. With your dumb reaction to my request for volunteers and my dumb reaction to your reaction, everyone knows that your page is not in compliance with the rules established when we began the project last year and I can't turn my back anymore and pretend that I don't know it because everyone knows that I know. I do not want you to resign from KyGenWeb. I've said so repeatedly. I think it would be a terrible loss for KyGenWeb. Having said that, I'm sure you know that I have to do what I think is best for the overall project, just as you did before you resigned as coordinator. I am going to ask you to put the USGenWeb logo on your page. Doing so does not mean that you are embracing the USGenWeb project or it's management, only that you are following the rules. I'm asking you to follow the same rules that all the rest of the coordinators, in Ky and the other 49 states, have to follow to be included in the project. I can do no less. As you said, it's a matter of principal now.
KyGenWeb is a part of USGenWeb. It has been since the day USGenWeb started. It might not be what you envisioned but it's here to stay and growing bigger and better every day with the help and committment of several thousand volunteers.
Every coordinator has to make the decision of whether they want to be involved with KyGenWeb, USGenWeb, or any of the other state projects. If they do we will welcome them. If they don't that's their decision to make. Someone can be involved with USGenWeb without being a part of one of the state projects but if they are part of a state project they are part of the USGenWeb project.
I hope you will reconsider and remain with KyGenWeb. If you decide your conscience and/or your principals won't let you I'll understand. I would like to see you get beyond the problems of last year, putting it behind you and moving on. It does no good to keep harboring the resentments Jeff, except to possibly give you an ulcer, and life is too short for that.
nt
So obviously I could not stay. It is just a matter of when she decides to pull the plug. In the meantime Pam kept yapping at my heels:
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:27:52 -0400
X-Sender: durp@mail.one.net
From: Pam Carey
Subject: Fwd: [Majordomo results: who kygen-l]
>X-From_: Majordomo-Owner@sirius.dsenter.com
>Tue Sep 23 16:28:02 1997
>Members of list 'kygen-l':
>
> ... snip
>
>kybiog@starbase21.com
You gave a very grandiose farewell speech. I believe your first words were "Goodbye All". Yet you're still here!?!
As I see it, you now have 2 choices:
1. If you've changed your mind and decided to stay, then a *public* apology to Nancy is in order. A sincere one. And hopefully short.
or
2. Do as you said you were going to do - quit. There won't be any gold watch. You made a fool out of yourself, and tried to take out our leader.You're not exactly a "favored son" right now.
The first option will get you some of the forgiveness you need, and possibly regain you a small portion of respect. The second option would provide the closure we all need, and allow you to build a new following ... one that doesn't know your history. It would give us all a fresh start - including you.
There *is* a 3rd option - stay and do neither of the above. That's really no option, though, if you would ever want to be respected again.
It's up to you.
Pam
But she later sent this:
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 06:07:44 -0400
X-Sender: durp@mail.one.net
From: Pam Carey
Subject: An apology
I owe you an apology for my last message.
Nancy wrote me after she received my message that you forwarded her. She didn't know that I'd written you, and I didn't know that you two had been corresponding.
I may have misjudged you. According to Nancy, you've both been discussing things civilly, and you're really struggling with this. I'm sorry. I assumed that you intended to leave, and that the only reason you hadn't left was because you were up to no good. I never stopped to consider that you might be staying because you wanted to still be a part of things. In my own defense, I have to say (and you have to admit) that your farewell message was very bitter. That's all I had to go on. I attributed your bitterness to ego, though, not pain. That was my mistake, not yours.
I also used some pretty strong words with you - not all of them flattering. I'd like to apologize for that, too. If you're struggling with this, then in effect what I did was kick you when you were down. I'm ashamed of myself for that. I don't intentionally do that to anybody.
I don't know if it's possible for us to ever be friends again, but I hope that you'll forgive me this time. And that there'll be no animosity between us.
I don't hate you, I don't dislike you. I think your hatred for USGenWeb is misguided and I think you react to your hatred too quickly - injuring innocent people in the process. That's my only beef with you.
I also think the one you really hate is Linda Lewis, and that USGenWeb is just a painful reminder of what you feel she and what I'll call "her followers", some of them previous friends of yours, did to you. But USGenWeb, the entity, is not the enemy. USGenWeb is a group of thousands of volunteers and visitors. It's not Linda and her crew.
I can understand you not wanting to support anything that Linda and the others have their hands in, and for that reason I can understand what I assume is your struggle right now ... how can you remain in KyGenWeb (which is touted as being a part of USGenWeb), yet stay true to yourself? But how can you leave? If you stayed, wouldn't it appear that you were in support of USGenWeb, and wouldn't support of USGenWeb be the same as support of "them"?
Not necessarily, not if you think of USGenWeb as being made up of thousands of volunteers putting in hundreds of thousands of hours, doing something they love, and of the public who uses it. These volunteers and the public could easily survive without USGenWeb. USGenWeb could easily survive without Linda et.al. But USGenWeb could NOT survive without the volunteers and visitors. So you tell *me* what USGenWeb is, and whether it deserves support or not.
In an attempt to show you that I think I know how you feel, I'll tell you that I hate Bill Clinton with a passion. To me, he's a spineless, lying adulterer and more, and I'll never, EVER, feel any differently. I can neither forgive nor forget what he's done in the past, and I'm amazed that others can. Yet I proudly wave my flag at the 4th of July parade. In other words, I may hate the person in charge, but I don't hate what he's the leader of, and will proudly display it's symbol. I'd never degrade the U.S., and would never consider leaving it just because Billy Boy's in charge. I hope you see the parallel to your situation, and might start looking at it this way.
Whether you stay or go, you're going to have to deal with it, because this hatred will follow you. You can't escape it. I still feel that if you can't focus your hatred where it belongs, that it's best that you go. I don't feel that way out of nastiness or spite, though. I hope you understand that. You have to agree that if you hate what you're a part of, it just won't work - for you or anybody else. And that you can't pretend what you're not a part of it when the rest of the world believes you are.
My true hope, though, is that you'll be able to work through this. I'd help you if I thought you'd let me.
As it is, I've rambled on and on, and gotten far away from my original intent - which was to apologize. No matter how this all turns out, I have no hard feelings. If anything, I empathize. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes, and I'm sorry if I've made things any more difficult for you than they already are. *I* was the one who was impulsive this time, and I'm sorry.
Pam
There were some nice comments from a number of others, but in the interest of protecting them from possible reprisals, I have omitted their messages.