An Interview with Mr. Small "I Don’t Think We’ll Ever Be Able to Go Back to the Way School Used to be"

Liam Rue ‘21

The Quill sat down with Greenport Schools’ new superintendent Mr. Small to discuss learning in a global pandemic, his career in education, his favorite restaurant in Greenport, the upcoming renovations and more.

Do you have any particular interests outside of your career, such as sports or hobbies?

I love soccer and table tennis. I played soccer growing up. Soccer’s always hard on the body; I can’t run as fast as I used to [laughs]. So, soccer and ping pong are my two sports to play. I don’t do soccer as much as I used to, because I’m not as good as I used to and it takes a toll on my body, and now I play ping pong on a regular basis.

Did you have a favorite subject in school?

Social studies.

Same here.

Really? What do you like about social studies?

Well, personally, it’s often just entertaining to read about the past, but on the other hand it’s really important to solve the problems of today. All of the problems we have today -- the inequality in this country, even problems in education, racism and all those things -- have to do with the past. So we can’t fix them knowing the past causes behind it.

Yeah, I like social studies for the same reasons. Because it’s dealing with looking back and seeing how what’s happening here connects to the past, and learning about different cultures, different areas of the world and different areas of the country; just learning about politics and how you as an individual can make an impact. That’s what really intrigues me: how can we impact the world today? And how can we make a difference? Social studies allows you to do that.

Speaking of individual impact, some of the largest projects in our school, particularly the renovations approved last year, have been put on pause because of the pandemic. Once the dust settles from the pandemic and the renovations can begin, are there certain improvements of your own that you intend to make happen as the new superintendent?

Yes, the priority right now is to get the Bond -- The Capital Improvement Project -- implemented. I think one of the things that we need to look at is how we’re using technology. Technology plays a big role in everything we do, right? So we want to make sure that we are using technology from an early stage in the classroom; making sure all students have access to technology that we’re going to use. I don’t think we’re ever going to be able to go back to the way that school used to be. I think technology is going to be a big part of how we operate in the future. So we have to make sure that, going forward, we provide the technology that our [students] need; that it becomes part and parcel of everything we do. I don’t think going back to the traditional way of teaching is something that we can do in the future.

So I wanna look at how we’re using technology in the future, and look at some of the ways we are enabling kids to get real-world experience in school, whether through project-based learning or just giving kids choice and voice in things they do. [That entails] making sure we’re empowering kids to be critical problem solvers, and all of that will work in terms of how we envision what learning is going to look like in the future: not just sitting and receiving information but problem-solving and engaging in collaborative work; engaging in critical thinking.

So, are you saying there are certain inefficiencies with how we use technology in Greenport that we need to focus on?

One thing we’re looking at is making sure we have enough devices for children we need to make sure we maintain them as devices will break, so we need to make sure we have enough devices for all students. We need to make sure we can provide connectivity for students who don’t have it at home. What technology does is it removes the walls from the classroom, right? It takes learning outside the walls of the school. So we don’t only view teaching and learning as something that happens at school. When it gives kids access to do it at home, it ensures they can engage in some of the same things and collaborate with classmates who are in school. So it broadens the footprint of the school building, so to speak, and makes sure that students can have learning at their fingertips at all times.

I understand that one of your first jobs in your career in education was as a 4th grade teacher, and that from there you became a principal. What inspired you to enter teaching?

You know, at one point, I thought I wanted to be a lawyer. So, actually, when I graduated from College, my goal was to go into law school. When I was working with foster children, I used to go to school meetings with them, and I began to feel like I could make a bigger impact in the classroom. I felt like -- just working with the kids in foster care, going to meetings with them -- that just changed my perspective about what I wanted to do with my life and how I could make a bigger impact. And I felt being in school with children would make a bigger impact. Teachers have always been there for me. So if you think about a profession that will give you opportunities to do good for kids, to do good for society, teaching just presents an opportunity. When you’re working with children and positively impacting their future, I feel like that’s one of the things that I want to do, so here I am.

Was there any experience in particular or particular teacher that inspired you to pursue the career you have now?

Yes. When I was younger, I went back to stay in Jamaica with my grandparents, and I had one teacher who was always there for me as a guide and mentor. So when I got in trouble, he was there to talk to me and make sure I stayed on the right path. He would always make sure to check in on me. As a kid, I didn’t appreciate it at the time because I always felt like he was just getting me in trouble, because he was always there when I did something bad. But when I got older, I began to appreciate it more, as he was always there. The older I got, I saw how he went above and beyond. And in college, I had a professor who served as a mentor, who gave me guidance and support. And having that -- always having someone there -- pushed me into this field.

A lot of teachers will tell you they had someone who made a big impact, from elementary [school] all the way up to college. I remember I had a professor who took me to Washington D.C. and made sure we got to tour D.C., Congress, and go to all of these conferences. The fact she took me there and gave me this opportunity and this exposure to something I’d never done before -- having someone like that who guides you -- it makes you start to say, “wow, I could do this. I could make a difference. I could do this for someone else”. So I’ve always been blessed and lucky to have people like that who showed me that support and guidance through the course of my years.

Is there anything in particular that teachers should do more of?

Making connections and having that relationship with students. If teachers care, they’ll show up and always be there. It’s not the content. If you ask what someone taught you, you don't really remember those things, but you do remember the personal relationships. You remember what someone did for you. While we do need to focus on the content, the relationship that will develop with students is critical to their success.

Has it been hard adjusting to the commute to Greenport?

You know, the commute really gives me time to unwind. So when I leave here, I get time to process my day. I’m not stuck in traffic, so it’s actually an easy, smooth ride in. The commute has not been as bad as I thought it would have been, you know? It’s not bumper to bumper traffic, where that would create some issues. So I get to unwind, going home from work. I get to think about my day and ask, what are the things I need to get done? So it’s not been a negative experience so far.

Had you already visited Greenport before becoming superintendent? Or have you gotten to check out the town since you’ve come here?

Since I’ve been here, I’ve gone to check out the town. Before, I think I came here maybe a handful of times. I came out here to wineries and restaurants.

Since the job of superintendent is not nearly as involved in daily student life as that of the building principal, many, if not most students are not very familiar with what exactly the superintendent does. Could you talk about what your job is like as superintendent?

I was principal for eleven years, and then for three years I served as an assistant superintendent. What I think I missed the most during those three years was being in the building with students. So when the Greenport position became available, one of the reasons I applied for it was because it’s a small school district, and I would get to be in the building with students. So the superintendency of Greenport is unique in that sense: because you’re in one building, with all the students, you get to see them all the time. You get to see the impact of the decisions you’re making all the time. I get up and I get to walk around classrooms and see learning taking place. So the superintendency is a little different in Greenport than it would be in a bigger school district, where you are pulled away from kids and you are focused only on those mundane tasks that the superintendency is mostly about. Here, you get to see how your decisions impact children, because you’re in the building with them. You get to go into classrooms, see them walking in the hallways, see them going out to lunch, and that’s one of the reasons I actually applied for it. Because I wanted to be around [students]; I missed being a principal.

Greenport, in many ways, is a microcosm of America. We are a diverse town with a large population of immigrants from all over the world. The immigrant experience here in Greenport is very much reflective of what brings people from all over the world to this country: coming here for a better life, finding success with enough hard work, and contributing to our melting pot of cultures and identities. As a Jamaican-American immigrant yourself, would you say that your own experiences are similar?

Absolutely. That’s all part of the attraction to Greenport: that it’s a reflection of America’s diversity, and the story of coming to this new land to make a new life for yourself. I feel that, with all the changes that are going on in Greenport, it is something that’s a strength, not a weakness, and I think it’s something to be proud of.

At the same time, with growing economic inequality as well as systemic racism, there is increasingly debate over whether or not the American Dream still exists, or whether it existed at all.

Well, schools have a big role to play in that, right? In showing children how they can be the change that society needs. How can students lead the way? I feel like with all the protests, it’s young people -- whether that’s college students or high school students -- leading the way for change. Because those children are seeing America in a different light. They’re seeing that diversity is a source of strength. They’re seeing that the issues of equity and justice -- they’re leading the charge for the country to get in that direction.

Do you have any particular thoughts on this as an American, an immigrant and an educator?

Well, I think education is the great equalizer, right? So, if you talk about how we fight some of the inequities that are going on in our society, it’s solved with education, right? Where you go to school has a lot to do with your trajectory in life. So it involves making sure kids everywhere get access to the same quality education and good teachers that will give them the tools they need to be successful in life. Education also has a role to play in teaching us about each other, our differences and how we are working in a multicultural society where diversity is valued; where we see our differences as a strength rather than a shortcoming. We should be able to see ourselves represented in the curriculum (and this is where social studies comes in) and learn about American history from perspectives of different people.

You’ve already talked at length about the importance of teachers and student-teacher relationships in education. Of course, the retention of teachers itself remains a problem in Greenport, particularly in the Spanish and ESL departments. On the one hand, a lot of most available teachers have to commute from as far as places like Huntington, which can be a deal breaker. On the other hand, a key cause is we’re just not paying teachers enough. A lot of teachers that would like to work here just can’t do it because there’s not enough pay. In the future, do you see a push to pay teachers more?

One of the things I have to look at is: what do we have to do better to retain the people that we hire? Because I want to make sure that, when we hire someone, we create an environment where they want to stay. Being new, I don’t yet know what the trigger is that’s caused so many teachers to leave. But that’s something I’m concerned about, because we can’t continue to have this revolving door. So part of what I want to establish and create is an environment that, once we hire brand new teachers coming in, there’s a structure to support them that will make them want to stay. The commute may be a bit out there, but I feel like, when people enjoy where they’re working, they’ll stay. What is causing this revolving door is something on our agenda that we want to address.

So, will you consider officially talking with students and faculty to get to the root of teacher retention problems. And of course, you just became superintendent, so you kind of inherited this problem, because this retention problem especially with Spanish teachers has been going on for at least four years.

Right now, I’m looking to figure out what’s going on, and to listen and learn and talk to the teachers as well. You know, what is it that’s going on that we have to do to ensure that [teachers] feel supported when they’re here? Maybe I’m being naive, but I do believe teachers feel supported, that they feel they’re working in a school district that values them, and that we have to make sure we’re supporting our new teachers. So that’s something I’ll definitely have to pay attention to.

Would working closer with the Greenport Teachers’ Association (GTA) be part of that?

Of course. It’s me, the administrators, the teachers. It’s also the students and families; you know, how do we create that environment. It’s the same thing with kids. How do we make sure our kids are valued and want to stay in the building and feel this is a place where they belong? It’s the same thing for our staff.

What would you say was the most difficult part of creating the reopening plan for our school district this year?

Listen, every day I come knocking on wood making sure everything’s going well. So far, I think it’s going well. I listen to the stories here and in other districts and I think we’ve had a relatively smooth opening. We’re constantly seeking feedback from our teachers. We just talked about setting up Zoom meetings with parents in the upcoming weeks so we can check in to see how things are going. To do the reopening plan, especially with the issue of hybrid learning -- making sure kids have the devices they need, connectivity, making sure kids will still do the work at home -- all of those things are challenging, right? So we’re checking in on our kids to make sure that they’re doing what needs to get done. All of those things create a challenge because it’s new and we just have to make adjustments as we go forward.

How will the school begin to carry out the renovation plans that are part of the Bond that passed last year amid the Covid-19 pandemic? Is the school suspending the project until the COVID-19 pandemic is over?

We haven’t delayed. What we’ve done now is the plans have been submitted to the state. As we await state approval, we suspect that the COVID-19 pandemic might impact state approval. So that might delay the process. But once those approvals are granted, we’ll start the renovation plan.

Since President Trump’s appointment of Betsy Devos as Secretary of Education and her subsequent efforts to privatize education, school choice has come to the fore of the debate over education in America. Do you believe that students should be eligible for vouchers to choose what school they go to? Or do you think the solution is instead investing more money in public schools in general?

I believe in public education, and I believe you improve public education by investing in public education. What vouchers do is they take money out of the public school system and take them elsewhere, and you’re not going to improve public schools if you’re taking funds out of it. So I think the idea is to improve public schools -- you have to invest in them, but you also have to look at how you reform them and make them more responsive to the needs of children and parents. Part of that is the investment in them and the investment in our teachers: providing the support and resources our teachers need, and providing the support and resources our students need as well.

*This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.