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D-26. WHAT Does JOHN 17:5 TRULY MEAN?
***What Does John 17:5 TRULY mean?
Here is John 17:5 from the KJV. “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
Does John 17:5 PROVE that the Son of God pre-existed in the eternity past as Trinitarian Christians teach?
In other words, does this verse of Scripture prove that the Bible teaches the doctrine of the Trinity?
Notice that Jesus is asking God the Father to glorify him WITH Yahweh’s OWN SELF.
Compare Scripture with Scripture and you will see that Jesus is asking his God and Father to make him FULL of joy WITH God’s CONTENANCE, according to Acts 2:28.
To read the CONTEXT, please click the BLUE links.
To read the STUDY and the context, please scroll down.
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Trinitarian church TRADITION teaches that Almighty God the Son laid aside the glory he ALWAYS had in the eternity past as God the Son to BECOME flesh.
But is that what the Bible ITSELF teaches? In other words, “What does John 17:5 truly mean in the LIGHT of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.
For you see, all FALSE doctrine comes from taking verses of Scripture OUT of their CONTEXT.
So, let us begin this study in God’s word by reading John 17:5 from the King James Version out of its context FIRST.
For you see, I want to show my readers HOW verses are incorrectly interpreted when they are NOT kept in their CONTEXT.
I will add some emphasis on the English word “HAD” in the past tense so that you can see HOW the Trinitarian “interpretation” of this verse of Scripture is NOT sound Biblical teaching.
John 17:5.
“And now, O Father, you glorify me with your own self with the glory which I HAD with you before the world was.”
Now, Trinitarian Christians “interpret” this verse of Scripture to mean that Jesus LITERALLY HAD glory with Almighty God the Father in the eternity past BEFORE God created the world, the angels, or anything else.
But does that Trinitarian INTERPRETATION of John 17:5 AGREE with the CONTEXT?
Let us now read the context to learn the TRUE SOUND Biblical meaning of John 17:5.
I will add some emphasis to words that I want you to notice.
I will highlight all of the words and pronouns referring to Almighty God the Father in orange.
I will highlight the words and pronouns referring to Jesus BEFORE the cross in yellow, and words that refer to the GLORIFIED Son of MAN, Jesus, AFTER the cross in light blue.
The words highlighted in green have OTHER meanings that BETTER fit the CONTEXT.
And I will explain each verse with my comments in parenthesis.
I will divide the CONTEXT into three parts so you can see that the SAME GLORY that Jesus is asking his God and Father to receive will ALSO be GIVEN to us at the coming of Jesus, according to John 17:22.
But first, please read John 17:1-5.
John 17:1-5.
“These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; (Speaking of the appointed time of the crucifixion of the Son of MAN, Jesus) GLORIFY Your Son, that Your (GLORIFIED) Son also may glorify You: (Here we see the Son of MAN, Jesus praying to his God and Father, asking his Father to GLORIFY him in order that the Father would be glorified.
Keep in mind that the Apostle John wrote down what he heard and what he was taught by Jesus both before and after the cross and resurrection as a RECORD for us to read.
So then, while Jesus prayed this prayer before the cross, he was NOT YET glorified by God until after the cross and resurrection, according to John 7:39-42, Luke 24:26,27, and 1 Peter 1:11-13)
John 17:2. AS You have GIVEN him POWER over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as You have GIVEN him. (According to Matthew 28:18, John 5:26,27, Romans 1:3,4, Philippians 2:8-11, and many other verses of Scripture, Almighty God GAVE His NOW glorified human Son with all power and authority AFTER the cross and resurrection.
Please know and understand that God PROPHESIED in Isaiah 43:4 to GIVE His servant PEOPLE for his LIFE.
Some people will be given to Jesus to be a father to his children and give them eternal life, according to Isaiah 9:6,7, Isaiah 22:21, and Psalm 89:27-35.
While the wicked people will be given to Jesus to execute God wrath upon them, according to Revelation 2:27.
So, to me, these are PROMISES in the Scriptures for God’s Messiah to RECEIVE as his reward for doing all of his God and Father’s will, even to die on the cross)
John 17:3. And THIS is life eternal, THAT they might know YOU the only true God, AND (That they might know) Jesus Christ, whom You have SENT. (According to 2 John 1:9, and 1 John 5:12, we must believe in and ABIDE in BOTH, Almighty God the Father, AND in His Son, Jesus, in order to receive eternal life in the world to come.
Please know and understand that Jesus CLEARLY identifies his God and Father as the ONLY TRUTHFUL God.
Also, notice that Jesus said THIS is eternal life. So to me, Jesus is saying that we must KNOW that the Father ALONE is the ONLY TRUE God.
And also KNOW that God SENT His ANOINTED Son into the world.
The word “SENT” means COMMISSION. And the word “commission” means to give power and authority to accomplish the task that one is given to do.
And the Son of MAN, Jesus, was ANOINTED with the Holy Spirit and power at his baptism by John the Baptist, according to Acts 10:38 and Luke 4:1,17-21)
John 17:4. I have glorified You on the earth: I have FINISHED the work which You gave me to do. (Here we see the Son of MAN, Jesus, reminding his God and Father that he has finished all of His Will that God asked him to do.
So, the CONTEXT of John 17:5 is Jesus telling his God and Father that he has done everything that God asked him to do. And NOW, it is Your turn Almighty God to give to me the JOY that you SET before me to ENDURE the cross, according to Hebrews 12:2)
John 17:5. And NOW, (Seeing that I have done all of Your Will that You asked me to do) O Father, You GLORIFY me with Your own self with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
According to BlueLetterBible.org, the Greek word “echo” translated as “had” actually means to HAVE, to HOLD to KEEP, and to possess.
It also means to LAY HOLD OF, and to JOIN or ACCOMPANY with someone.
In other words, God PROMISED the Son of MAN, Jesus, that He would make him a partaker of the Divine nature of immortality, crown him with glory and honor, and SET him on His throne at His right hand side, IF Jesus obeyed Him to do all of His Will.
So then, the TRUE SOUND Biblical meaning of John 17:5 is that Jesus is simply asking his God and Father to give him what God PROPHESIED in His word concerning HIGHLY EXALTING His firstborn to be MADE a King of kings and a Lord of lords in the world to come, according to Psalm 89:27, Psalm 2:6-10, Psalm 16:10,11, Psalm 17:15, Psalm 21:1-7, Psalm 110:1,2, Acts 2:34-38, and many other verses of Scripture.
The SAME Greek word “echo” that is used here in John 17:5, is ALSO used in MANY other verses of Scripture where we are PROMISED eternal life in the world to come.
In other words, we HAVE eternal life that is RESERVED in heaven for us IF we obey the Will of God.
Please consider the following verses of Scripture with the Greek word “echo” translated correctly to fit the CONTEXT.
Matthew 19:16.
“And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I MAY HAVE eternal life?”
John 3:16.
“For God so loved the world, that He gave (Or more correctly translated, the He RECEIVED) his only BEGOTTEN Son, that whosoever believes in him (The MAN ordained and approve of God, BEGOTTEN from the DEAD and CROWNED with GLORY) should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
For you see, the Greek word that is translated as God “GAVE” His only begotten Son, ALSO means God “RECEIVED” His only begotten Son.
Here is how the concordance in E-Sword defines that Greek word. The emphasis is mine.
Notice that it also means MADE His only begotten Son, as in, God formed or created His only begotten Son.
G1325
δίδωμι
didōmi
did'-o-mee
A prolonged form of a primary verb (which is used as an alternate in most of the tenses); to give (used in a very wide application, properly or by implication, literally or figuratively; greatly modified by the connection): - adventure, bestow, bring forth, commit, deliver (up), give, grant, hinder, make, minister, number, offer, have power, put, receive, set, shew, smite (+ with the hand), strike (+ with the palm of the hand), suffer, take, utter, yield.
John 6:68.
“Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have (G2192 “echo”) the words of eternal life.”
1 John 5:13.
“These things have I written unto you that believe in the NAME of the Son of God; that you may know that you have (G2192 “echo”) eternal life, (Or more correctly, that you may know that you are TO HAVE, to hold, and to possess eternal life) and that you may believe in the NAME of the Son of God.”
So then, John 17:5 should be translated as “TO HAVE” as opposed to “HAD” in the past tense.
Here is John 17:5 translated as “TO HAVE”.
“And NOW, (Seeing that I have done all of Your Will that You asked me to do) O Father, You GLORIFY me with Your own self with the glory which I TO HAVE (To POSSESS) with You before (Or ABOVE or OVER) the world TO BE.
The Greek word “” translated as before the world “was” in the past tense in the KJV also means TO BE, as in, before the world to COME.
And the Greek word translated as “BEFORE” also means ABOVE, as in, OVER the world TO BE.
So let us read John 17:5 with these meanings of the original Greek words.
Here is John 17:5 translated with the other meanings.
“And NOW, (Seeing that I have done all of Your Will that You asked me to do) O Father, You GLORIFY me (Or you HONOR me) with Your own self with the glory (Or with the HONOR) which I TO HAVE (To HOLD and POSSESS) WITH You ABOVE (Or OVER) the world TO BE.”
“And NOW, (Seeing that I have done all of Your Will that You asked me to do) O Father, You GLORIFY me with Your own self with the glory which I TO HAVE (To POSSESS) with (Or BESIDE) You before (Or PRIOR to) the world TO BE.
Let us now read John 17:6, which is the CONTEXT that follows John 17:5. Then we will skip down to verse 11 and then to verses 13-24.
John 17:6,11,13-24.
“I have manifested Your name unto the men which You GAVE me out of the world: Yours they were, and You GAVE them me; and they have kept Your word…
…John 17:11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, (And NOT I am RETURNING to You, Holy Father) keep through Your own name those whom You have given me, that THEY may be ONE, AS WE ARE. (ONE)...
…John 17:13. And now come I to You; and these things I speak in the world, THAT (Or so THAT) THEY might have MY JOY fulfilled in themselves. (Speaking of the JOY that God SET before the Son of MAN, Jesus, to ENDURE the cross, according to Hebrews 12:2 and Matthew 25:21-23)
John 17:14. I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because THEY are NOT of the world, EVEN AS I am NOT of the world.
John 17:15. I pray not that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from evil.
John 17:16. THEY are NOT of the world, EVEN AS I am NOT of the world. (Notice that Jesus tells us TWICE in the same passage of Scripture that WE are NOT of the world in the SAME MANNER that Jesus is NOT of the world.
It is like God told Jesus to make sure we understand the God INTENDED meaning of “I am NOT of this world” in John 8:23.
We are BORN of God from above and all UNSAVED people are from BENEATH as the children of the Devil.
Please read the study called C-2. ARE ALL PEOPLE THE CHILDREN OF GOD?)
John 17:17. Sanctify them through Your truth: Your word is truth.
John 17:18. AS You have SENT me into the world, even so have I also SENT them into the world. (In other words, God SENT His HUMAN Son INTO the world after He ANOINTED the Son of MAN, Jesus, with the Holy Spirit and POWER.
And Jesus SENT his disciples INTO the world in the SAME WAY. Jesus told his disciple to WAIT in Jerusalem UNTIL they were ENDUED with POWER from on High)
John 17:19. And for their sake, I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
John 17:20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 17:21. THAT they ALL may be ONE; AS You, Father, are in me, and I in You, that THEY ALSO may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that You have SENT me.
John 17:22. And the GLORY which You GAVE me I have GIVEN them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (Or the glory which You gave me to be HAVING, I have given to them to be HAVING: the they may be ONE EVEN AS we are ONE.
For you see, Jesus GAVE in the past tense as a PROMISE to be HAVING eternal life in the word to come IF we ENDURE unto the end.
Thus, the glory Jesus HAD he has as a PROMISE to ENTER INTO glory)
John 17:23. I in them, and You in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that You have sent me, and have loved them, as You have loved me.
John 17:24. Father, I will that they also, whom You have given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which You have GIVEN me: for You loved me before the foundation of the world.”
So then, the GLORY that Jesus is referring to in John 17:5 is the SAME GLORY that Jesus gave to us as a PROMISE to OBTAIN if we endure unto the end to be found good and faithful servants.
And thus, the glory that Jesus supposedly HAD in the eternity past, according to the INCORRECT Trinitarian “interpretation”, is actually the glory SET before Jesus as an incentive of JOY for him to ENDURE the cross, according to Hebrews 12:2, Acts 2:34-38, Psalm 89:27, Psalm 2:6-10, Psalm 16:10,11, Psalm 17:15, Psalm 21:1-7, Psalm 110:1,2, and many other verses of Scripture.
For you see, the CONTEXT clearly teaches us that Jesus prayed to his God and Father asking that WE will ALSO be FILLED with the same FULLNESS of our Lord’s JOY, according to John 17:13.
So let us go ahead and read a shorter CONTEXT of John 17:5, keeping in mind that Jesus clearly identified Almighty God the Father as the ONLY TRUTHFUL God in verses 1 through 3 in John chapter 17.
In other words, Yahweh the Father is the TRUTHFUL God and Satan is the LYING god.
Please read John 17:4-6,11,13,20-22.
“John 17:4. I have glorified You on the earth: I have FINISHED the work which You gave me to do. (Here we see the Son of MAN, Jesus, reminding his God and Father that he has finished all of His Will that God asked him to do.
So, the CONTEXT of John 17:5 is Jesus telling his god and Father that he has done everything that God asked him to do.
And NOW, it is Your turn heavenly Father to give to me the JOY that You SET before me to ENDURE the cross, according to Hebrews 12:2)
John 17:5. And NOW, (Seeing that I have done all of Your Will that You asked me to do) O Father, You GLORIFY me with Your own self with the glory which I had (As the PROMISES in Your word to be SEATED) with You before the world was. (Or PRIOR to the world TO BE)
John 17:6. I have manifested Your name unto the men which You GAVE me out of the world: Yours they were, and You GAVE them me; and they have kept Your word…
…John 17:11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I COME to You. Holy Father, (And NOT I am RETURNING to You, Holy Father) keep through Your own name those whom You have given me, that THEY may be ONE, AS WE ARE. (ONE)...
…John 17:13. And now COME I to You; and these things I speak in the world, THAT (Or so THAT) THEY might have MY JOY fulfilled in themselves…(Speaking of the JOY that God SET before the Son of MAN, Jesus, to ENDURE the cross, according the Hebrews 12:2 and Matthew 25:21-23)
…John 17:20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
John 17:21. THAT they ALL may be ONE; AS You, Father, are in me, and I in You, that THEY ALSO may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that You have SENT me.
John 17:22. And the GLORY which You GAVE me I have GIVEN them; that they may be one, even as we are one:”
Let us go ahead and read Matthew 25:21-23.
Matthew 25:21-23.
“His lord said unto him, Well done, you good and faithful servant: you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you RULER over many things: enter you into the JOY of your lord.
Matthew 25:22. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, you delivered unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Matthew 25:23. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things: ENTER you INTO the JOY of your lord.”
So, to me, the JOY that God SET before His HUMAN Son, Jesus, was the PROMISE to GLORIFY him with the divine nature of immortality and to MAKE him Lord to come and sit on his God and Father’s throne to RULE WITH Him at His right hand.
Let us read John 17:5 one more time by itself with these OTHER meanings of the original Greek words.
Here is John 17:5 translated with the other meanings.
“And NOW, (Seeing that I have done all of Your Will that You asked me to do) O Father, You GLORIFY me (Or you HONOR me) with Your own self with the glory (Or with the HONOR) which I TO HAVE (To HOLD and POSSESS) WITH You ABOVE (Or OVER) the world TO BE.”
Now, some Christians have never been taught that God MADE the Son of MAN, Jesus, both Lord and Christ AFTER the cross and resurrection, according to Acts 2:36 and many other verses of Scripture.
And seeing that the Bible ITSELF teaches us that the human Son of God was MADE Lord to JOIN his God and Father on the Father’s throne to rule WITH Yahweh at Yahweh’s side OVER the earth during the world TO COME, then how could Jesus pre-exist in the eternity past as the LORD, Yahweh Himself?
So, I implore you to read the study called. D-27. Jesus Was MADE Lord AFTER THE CROSS!
Also, please read The DEITY of Jesus, According to the Bible ITSELF!
In other words, it makes no sense for the Scriptures to give us PROPHECY in Isaiah 9:6,7 of a future event of the Son who is TO BE GIVEN the NAME Mighty God WHEN the government of the world to COME shall be laid upon his shoulders, IF the Son always existed in the eternity past as the Mighty God and ruler over the earth.
Thanks for reading, and may God bless you richly as you continue to seek the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.
And to me, the truth concerning who Jesus TRULY is, according to the Bible ITSELF, is the Biblical Unitarian view of Jesus.
Once Christians, Jews, Muslims, and even atheists understand the REASON that Yahweh CREATED the Son of MAN, Jesus, was to have DOMINION over the work of Yahweh’s hands.
And after you understand that the REASON that Yahweh did that is to STILL His ENEMIES, Satan and the fallen angels.
Then you can understand that God made His human Son to become “a” Lord, “a” King, and “a” God, under and subject to his God and Father in order to JUDGE Satan and the fallen angels.
For a deeper understanding of this WAR that Lucifer and one third of the angels waged against the throne of Almighty God, please read the studies under the subject category called ** Q-0 Why Are We Here? Is God at WAR? **.
More studies are coming in this SHORTER Biblical Unitarian view of who Jesus is according to the WHOLE word of God.
If you have a PARTICULAR verse of Scripture that you would like to know the sound Biblical Unitarian meaning, then please email me at MarkatAMatterOfTruth@Gmail.com and let me know.
For further and more in-depth studies on this subject of Jesus being created to STILL the enemies of Yahweh, please read the studies called D-25. A NEW LOOK at JOHN 1:1, In the BEGINNING!
And also read the study called D-28. The PRE-ADAMIC LUCIFERIAN FLOOD!
At the top of my homepage, there are subjects or categories which contain compiled lists of ** ALL Studies! ** I have written on that particular subject. So, if a link within a study is broken, then click on ** ALL Studies! ** to find the suggested study.
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Thanks again for reading, and may God bless you richly as you continue to seek the TRUTH of the WHOLE word of Almighty God.
And to me, the truth concerning who Jesus TRULY is, according to the Bible ITSELF, is the Biblical Unitarian view of Jesus.
And again, for ALL of the studies on the Biblical Unitarian view of Jesus, please click on the subject heading ** D-0 The BIBLICAL UNITARIAN VIEW of Jesus! **
And for the SUBJECT on the true foundation of the church, please click on the subject heading ** C-0 The TRUE FOUNDATION of the Church! **
This way you can just send ONE link to those who you want to share the TRUE sound Biblical FOUNDATIONAL teachings of the church that Jesus and his Apostles taught in the first century church.
Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,
Brother Mark.
My heartfelt prayer is that all Christians RETURN to the TRUE FOUNDATION of the church that is taught by the very Apostles of Jesus in the first century.
So let us all come into the UNITY of the faith and return to what Jesus and his Apostles taught us in SIMPLICITY in the New Testament.
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