thread
----*Robin D Gill
If the first line were absent, it would indeed be a mere image.
With it, we find the poet happy he slowed down enough to notice one of the "little things" Thoreau would later dwell upon.
The first lline's "yoku mireba" is simpler than "looking carefullY" and more poetically conveys that idea.
Said "looking carefully" gets around the problem of conveying "if/when I/you/we really look," but subjectless "ing" is weak.
This poem is often taught to elementary school children in Japan and I am of split opinion about its suitability.
The didactic message between the lines may be a good one for children, but will go over the heads of most who might like haiku more if they were shown livelier ku.
Marlene Mountain
marlene mountain
essay
april 1978
[formatting etc in progress]
one image haiku
Most Western haiku are comprised of two images. This technique--one kind of renso, or association of ideas--often suggests mysterious relationships between or among things. The following are excellent examples:
[the 'looking carefully' comment within this essay. ps one of the japanese haiku is contributed wrongly. i've now forgotten which.]
Marlene Mountain i can't get the url to stick. any suggestions?
Alan Summers http://www.marlenemountain.org/essays/essay_oneimage.html
Zen Anecdotes If you copy-paste a url and it doesn't stick, try adding a . at the end of it before posting. A tip from an IT friend :)
John Potts Or, move it in a notch, will try the . though. . . .
John Potts Yep! But, is the dot unsightly and terminal in the sense of freezing the ma? Maybe stick with the nudge-method
John Potts
"Basho, also, wrote single image with two components haiku:
Looking carefully,--
A shepherd's purse is blooming
Under the fence.
By dropping the superfluous opening comment, and assuming all haiku poets look with care, the structure--flower under the fence is the same as crow on a branch."
Marlene Mountain [aka: Marlene Wills]
-
A shepherd's purse is blooming
Under the fence.
-
Superflous? Please to explain why. . . .
— jp
Most Western haiku are comprised of two images. This technique--one kind of renso, or association of ideas--often suggests mysterious relationships between or among things. The following are excellent examples:
John Potts While we wait for a response to the last comment's pertinent question too Marlene, another for Robin (D Gill). . . .
You say a 'mere image'. Are you sure, Robin - how so?
jp
Robin D Gill
Say, we had a photo of a small flower a the base of a fence or wall -- I would not call that just an image, for depending upon the sense of the photographer and the nature of the wall and flower, any number of images, some more or less beautiful or interesting in various ways than others, would be possible. But "a shepard's purse is blooming under the fence" does not hold the interest of a photo, and only lives, to my mind, and, I presume, Basho's, because it is coupled with the comment you consider superfluous. Perhaps "mere" was not the best choice of words -- "insufficient" would have been better. As for "all haiku poets look with care" -- not all the time they/we don't! 敬愚
John Potts So, Robin, I respond to you by asking: what is happening in those two lines, in nature? Enter the scene. . . .
John Potts
NOTE
In case any reader misreads this thread. I am an advocate FOR the first line's intrinsic value. Marlene, evidently, is not.
At this point we are questioning Robin's apparent trivialisation of the remaining two lines (L2/L3): 'mere'. However, Robin has now changed his mind and redacted 'mere' to 'insufficent'. I'd go along with this in the context of the unadultrated Basho haiku. Nevertheless, it's these last two lines which are being appraised.
Let's wait and see what Robin has to say about them. . . .
Robin D Gill
Sorry, John, I did not notice who said what but only what was said about that first line.
Marlene, i guess i am on the opposite side of the fence with you on this one.
And i vaguely recall liking some of your ku which had little info other than the basic image/s;
however, it was because i felt your familiarity with the subject, or, rather, phenomena,
from your choice of things and words. Here, while the plant in question,
hardly so excitingly named as the shepherd's purse or mother's heart, etc
it becomes in translation (i played with these in my bk of NY haiku)
is nominally familiar to all Japanese, the bloom was not especially noticed
and as far as i know, Basho was not writing of something familiar.
It seems to be a little discovery made because the poet was in a frame of mind
that permitted him to stop to see what that tiny speck of color was.
I suppose we could think about how people searching for nazuna for herbal soup
stepped over that wall if it was a wall or failed to search along the fence
where plants grew later because of the shade, but I feel that even with
the imagination in play, the image/s alone do/oes not hack it.
Yamamoto Kenkichi describes the poem as an inpromptu one
re. the joy of making a trivial discovery, and all i can say is i agree.
He finds "a poet's wui-tto" (wit) in that first line and contrasts the poem
to Buson's noting the shamisen flower/s blooming by his girlfriend's fence
(imo-ga kakine, shamisen-kusa no hana sakinu) which lacks that first line,
but has other interesting associations.
Something is happening there, Robin Apparently, in open concealment. This is not a literary event which Basho is engaging us in. The plant is up to something. Basho want's to know about it (somewhat humorously, it must be said), from the plant's perspective. . . .
NOTE
There's a profound message behind this topic's theme. It's not in the haiku, as such. Rather, the reading of the haiku. With that said - let's press on.
Back to Robin. . . .
Robin D Gill
John and Marlene, there were already plants by fences, one pasage in the tonbo dairy and one in genji and one waka in the fuboku thematic anthology, but the plants were the plum tree (same kakine, literally fence-root, it does not strictly speaking mean "under the fence" but by it), hedge-plant-size u, and the nazuna was not known for its blossoms (like many veggies, stalks with lots of little flowers and unlike the tall daikon or hakusai which let go are spectacular in their own way, pretty small plants, too) so basho's poem is considered to be a buddhist enlightened awareness or taoist recognition of us all being in it together = all part of evolution/ zouka = or noticed as a result of his becoming like a chinese sage -- one website thinks the yoku mireba (well/closely/carefully looking) is a japanization of a particular phrase where a quiet mind sees all (i have no time to give names and quotes and will bow out on the frog conversation u start as i must use my limited time for digging up the primary stuff overlooked in and out of japan). Before bowing out, I can say only that the middle phrase points out that "the/a nazuna blooms" rather than just showing a blooming nazuna or nazuna flowers. And because of the same verb, blooms. then modifying the base of the wall, it makes the total one image, one picture, imho, rather than two images. I am not at home enough with japanese images of basho's time to imagine what fence, wall or hedge he referred to.
John Potts That you done, Robin? If so, I'll wrap this up after leaving a time-gap (ma) for Marlene to respond. . . .
Marlene Mountain za do you know of harold g henderson's 'an introduction to haku"? [1958 i think.] at the bottom of pages are his literal translations of the haiku he discusses. if you've not seen i believe you'll like.
Marlene Mountain haiku
Zen Anecdotes If za is me, Marlene, thank you. Not likely that I'll find it in SAfrica (unless Maria Steyn has a copy), but I'll certainly put it on my list of "must reads"!
Marlene Mountain hi za in the infamous 'one-image haiku' that's been bandied about there are several literal translations of henderson's. as mentioned earlier there is one that is attributed wrongly--i think. i rarely look back. anyway you'll get an idea. i was quite moved by them. marlene
Sheila Windsor marlene and za i just found/bought it via amazon
Merrill Gonzales When I hear a word, to me each word carries multiples of connotations and denotations. I think of Cor's "tundra" or John Stevenson's "core"... Single image???? is it possible?
John Potts Finally got around to unpacking Robins response. (Been busy at the Haiku Crossroads office preparing several essays and assembling material for an upcoming interview with an internationally renowned haiku journal)
Just to focus:
Looking carefully,--
A shepherd's purse is blooming
Under the fence.
Basho
The last two lines and their valuable contribution to the unabridged text (in terms of Basho's haiku, as the great haijin wrote it, and as given in Marlene's choice of translation) will be directed at Robin D Gill specifically, as promised. Thanks again to Robin for taking time out from his research to explain his understanding as clearly as he was able. Then, we can look at the whole haiku again with, hopefully fresh insight and draw our conclusions. . . .
Meanwhile, do feel free to chatter amongst yourselves.
— jp