thread

Robin D Gill

If the first line were absent, it would indeed be a mere image.

With it, we find the poet happy he slowed down enough to notice one of the "little things" Thoreau would later dwell upon.

The first lline's "yoku mireba" is simpler than "looking carefullY" and more poetically conveys that idea.

Said "looking carefully" gets around the problem of conveying "if/when I/you/we really look," but subjectless "ing" is weak.

This poem is often taught to elementary school children in Japan and I am of split opinion about its suitability.

The didactic message between the lines may be a good one for children, but will go over the heads of most who might like haiku more if they were shown livelier ku.

Marlene Mountain

marlene mountain

essay

april 1978

[formatting etc in progress]

one image haiku

Most Western haiku are comprised of two images. This technique--one kind of renso, or association of ideas--often suggests mysterious relationships between or among things. The following are excellent examples:

[the 'looking carefully' comment within this essay. ps one of the japanese haiku is contributed wrongly. i've now forgotten which.]

CHATTER ABOUT A LINK FOR A FEW COMMENTS

- NOT RELEVENT (OTHER THAN A DISTRACTION)

John Potts

"Basho, also, wrote single image with two components haiku:

Looking carefully,--

A shepherd's purse is blooming

Under the fence.

By dropping the superfluous opening comment, and assuming all haiku poets look with care, the structure--flower under the fence is the same as crow on a branch."

Marlene Mountain [aka: Marlene Wills]

http://www.marlenemountain.org/essays/essay_oneimage.html

A shepherd's purse is blooming

Under the fence.

Superflous? Please to explain why. . . .

— jp

John Potts

While we wait for a response to the last comment's pertinent question too Marlene, another for Robin (D Gill). . . .

You say a 'mere image'. Are you sure, Robin - how so?

Robin D Gill

Say, we had a photo of a small flower a the base of a fence or wall -- I would not call that just an image, for depending upon the sense of the photographer and the nature of the wall and flower, any number of images, some more or less beautiful or interesting in various ways than others, would be possible. But "a shepard's purse is blooming under the fence" does not hold the interest of a photo, and only lives, to my mind, and, I presume, Basho's, because it is coupled with the comment you consider superfluous. Perhaps "mere" was not the best choice of words -- "insufficient" would have been better. As for "all haiku poets look with care" -- not all the time they/we don't! 敬愚

John Potts

So, Robin, I respond to you by asking: what is happening in those two lines, in nature? Enter the scene. . . .15 minutes ago

John Potts

NOTE

In case any reader misreads this thread. I am an advocate FOR the first line's intrinsic value. Marlene, evidently, is not.

At this point we are questioning Robin's apparent trivialisation of the remaining two lines (L2/L3): 'mere'. However, Robin has now changed his mind and redacted 'mere' to 'insufficent'. I'd go along with this in the context of the unadultrated Basho haiku. Nevertheless, it's these last two lines which are being appraised.

Let's wait and see what Robin has to say about them. . . .

MORE AS IT ROLLS. . . .