peonyTranslations based on Issa zenshû (Nagano: Shinano Mainichi Shimbunsha, 1976-79) 9 volumes. Some of the translations first appeared in Issa, Cup-of-Tea Poems, The Distant Mountain: The Life and Haiku of Kobayashi Issa and Pure Land Haiku: The Art of Priest Issa.
.雨の夜や鉢のぼたんの品定
. (begin cut?)
雨 rain
の possessive particle
夜 night, evening
や (cut)
鉢 bowl, rice tub, pot, crown
ぼたん peony
の possessive particle
品 goods, refined, dignity, article, counter for meal courses
定 determine, fix, establish, decide
a rainy night--
sizing up the potted
peony
1820
.雨の夜や鉢のぼたんの品定
ame no yo ya hachi no botan no shinasadame
Another quick question, David. Why the single translation of yo ('night') in the glyph, and a multiple choice in the romanji? The latter omitting night(/evening) altogether. . .
ame no yo ya hachi no botan no shinasadame
ame rain
no of
yo more than, over, world
ya (cut)
hachi bowl, pot, basin, flowerpot, crown
no of
botan tree peony
no of
shinasadame evaluation
Hi David,
Have you had a chance to have a think about this apparent anomaly yet (see below)?
John
Hi John
All I can figure is that the anomaly is the fault of inadequate dictionaries. A good dictionary should include "evening" as one meaning of yo.
David
English
night
Japanese
yabun, yoru, naito
night, evening
I might use your Issa peony ku stimulus to blog the issue of translating haikai in general. A plain intro for beginners, type thing. Encourage novices to leap in and enjoy puzzling deeper understandings. Pause fans in their mad dash; thus to peer a little closer!
John
yabun evening, night, nighttime
naito night, knight
English Japanese
night yabun, yoru, naito
Japanese English
yo over (suf), more than, over
yo world, society, age
yo world, society, generation
Japanese English
ru bend over
David,
One of the romanji words for 'night' is 'yoru'
English Japanese
night yabun, yoru, naito
Is this the simple explanation; that 'ru' was missed off your 'yo'? Otherwise, which dictionary did you get the 'yo'/'night' from?
John
Hi John
Yes, I think you have solved the mystery. Yo must be a truncated form of yoru.
David
Hi David,
Your typo, or formal truncation (some sort of regional colloquialism)? Which dictionary did you use (and recommend)? As mentioned, am putting an item together (in the gaps) to encourage ku novices to get into simple translation. All this is grist for the mill and I do appreciate your input.
John
It is not a typo. My source is the Issa zenshu (complete works). Whenever a kanji has an irregular reading (i. e. not in the dictionary) the editors provide the correct reading in tiny hiragana script on the side. Yo is Issa's pronunciation of the evening kanji in literally thousands of haiku, according to the editors. It must be a shortened form of yoru to fit the 5-7-5 pattern.
David
David,
It may be that this 'yo' anomaly crept in as an error at source? Do you check standard romanji dictionaries for this; and, if so, is it worth an adjustment in order to avoid ambiguity in the Daily Issa? I've never had a romanji problem until this example. So, it may be a rare thing. Even so, a couple of minutes of extra work might be useful. For example. . .
ame no yo[yoru] ya hachi no botan no shinasadame
Meanwhile, many thanks for the info - my mind is blossoming with this stimulus. ◠‿◠
John
Hi John
It's not as much of an anomaly as it it might seem to you. A basic dictionary might not list yo as a way to pronounce the kanji in question, but in different contexts, according to Issa's editors, he pronounces it yo, yoru, and ya. The complexity of Japanese is why some call it the Devil's language! :)>
David
Hi Again John,
I have an app for my phone called Midori. It is, in part, a Japanese dictionary. Below I have copied and pasted the possible readings that it gives for this kanji. It lists ya in katakana, as well as yo and yoru in romaji.
夜
ヤ, よ, よる
night, evening
Hi David,
Yes, a real can of worms. For the readers, why not simply use a romanji option [in editorial brackets] that bridges the void? Otherwise, on the rare[?] occasions when there is any innocent misrepresentation, your average ku reader (who probably would be using populist online translation gadgets) is kept safe from perplexity's rainbow, if not tsunami. ◠‿◠
ame no yo[yoru] ya hachi no botan no shinasadame
You could also field a caveat to that effect, in general notes somewhere on site. Maybe with some info/links to point people in useful directions. You know, I do feel that would be a really useful public service. Just a thought.
Thanks for the guidance.
John