When is deception okay?

Some believe deception is okay under certain cirumstances. This page explores the question.

Cases

1. To potentially protect someone from violence

   1. For example, if someone comes to the door with a gun and asks if Fred is inside. If Fred is, it might be tempting to say no.

2. Pranks

   1. For example, someone sees something on the counter and asks what they are. They are told they are marshmallow dessert treats and she bit one when in truth they were red potatoes.

3. When God does it

   1. In the Old Testament, God makes Abraham believe he must kill his son Issac.

4. When it's about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy

   1. These are common deceptions parents perpetuate with young children to make Christmas more fun.

5. When deception is expected and accepted such as in a magic show or a game requiring deception by the participants.

Related Questions

1. EXCEPTIONS. What cases above could be considered okay?

2. TRUST. When Fred attempts to deceive Wilma, in the future is Wilma more or less likely to believe Fred?

3. DURATION. Is the duration of the deception an important factor?

4. CORRECTION. If you see someone telling a lie to someone, and you know it's a lie, is it your duty to reveal the truth? 

5. Celebrities sometimes have "public" birthdates that are not the same as their actual birthdates -- not necessarily to hide their age, but to protect their privacy in other ways. That's deception. Is it immoral?

6. It is common practice for celebrities appearing on talk shows to tell fictional anecdotes as if they're true. The justification is that it is entertainment, and whether it is true does not affect anyone. Is that immoral? 

7. When a stand-up comedian tells a story, is it okay for them to embellish it to make it funnier? Is it okay if it didn't even actually occur, and it's a funny story they made up, presented as something that happened to them? 

8. I wonder if participation in events that include deception (e.g., magic show, some types of games where people try to deceive) will lead to other forms of deception being more acceptable?

Views

1. Bryan's

   1. For myself I don't think deception under any circumstances is okay.

      1. I've changed my mind about one exception: When it's understood and accepted by the deceptee (:-D) that deception is acceptable (e.g., magic show).

   2. I can understand others feeling differently about at least some cases so I try not to judge them as being immoral; however, suspect it may affect how much I trust them.

   3. I don't think duration matters, but understand that some may feel that deception for a short duration can be fun.

   4. I find some forms of banter to be fun. I avoid deception by making sure the false statements are obvious.

   5. The question about what to tell someone when you realize they are being lied to is a great one. I like the golden rule for this: What would you want to be done if you were in their place?

      1. Personally I'd want to be told the truth.

   6. I suspect practicing or experiencing deception in what might be acceptable ways encourages other forms.

2. Obi-Wan

   1. pranks of any sort are risky and the line between 'harmless' and 'harmful' is quite thin. 

   2. There are also some games where deception is a fun theme.  One Night Werewolf.

   3. It might not be ok... but it's fun and helps us develop relationships in a positive way, I believe. 

   4. I'm more concerned about being perceived as having a stick up my butt than I am about burning in hell due to my immoral jokes.

   5. There's an episode of Parks and Rec about this topic  

3. Kylo-Renn

   1. I think the general rule is that it's never okay but there are exceptions just like anything.

   2. For example if you are kidnapped, in order to save your life it might be necessary to deceive the kidnapper. 

4. Chewbacca

   1.  I think it’s unreasonable to hold ourselves to a morally perfect standard. Everyone lies at some point in their lives, what’s important is to self evaluate and ask why you deemed it necessary and go from there 

   2. Pranks create a massive gray area that ultimately comes down to being able to read the room. I think most people would hesitate to pull a big and possibly severe prank, because we’re not psychopaths.

   3. It can definitely lead to distrust, but depending on the severity this is part of the fun. In my apartment we have a fart machine with a remote, both of which are in constant rotation. It’s harmless, we all find it funny/haven’t showed any signs of annoyance, but if I notice someone go into my room, it’s suspicious

   4. As for other less fun forms of deception- if you are caught in a lie, of course there’s going to be consequences. Some very severe.

5. R2-D2

   1. It’s about knowing the people around you. Are they one to appreciate the fun of a prank? Or is that not their sense of humor? In order to pull it off without negative consequences you have to know them very well.

   2. I “identify” well with being 100% truthful. X's family is next to never fascicious/sarcastic and it feels good to be around them.

6. Boba-Fett (name is changed to protect the innocent/guilty)

   1. My answer to that has changed over time. I think the duration of the deception is a very important factor. 

      1. Bryan's views

         1. I agree duration matters. The shorter the duration the less serious it is; however, I still maintain that short duration deception is still wrong.

   2. I think people in general enjoy being very briefly deceived in certain ways. Humor (even short verbal jokes) often involves leading the other party in a particular mental direction, then abruptly revealing an alternative perspective. Magic tricks involve deception and misdirection. 

      1. Bryan's views

         1. More examples might be useful here.

         2. As for magic: as long as the audience knows this is a magic demonstration, they expect the magicion to try and "fool" them. In this case it is deception, but acceptable.

            1. This is true for banter as well. If the untrue banter is obviously false, it's not deception. Of course someone can go too close to the edge, which I believe is wrong. As some have said, you have to be able to read your audience.

   3. and there are situations where truth can cause bad outcomes, and a slight deception can alter the outcome in a way that seems more reasonable than the truth would. For example, in certain circumstances, if people ask me about my religious beliefs, I'll say "I'm not religious", which is technically true, but significantly different than "I'm an atheist" -- and the resulting perception could be dramatically different. Some people consider "atheist" and "satanist" to be pretty much the same thing. 

      1. Bryan's views

         1. Great example. In this case you witheld information. When this typically leads to a false assumption, deception is involved, otherwise it's okay. Both phrases are different, but I don't think the first is deceptive.

   4. I've even said "I have a relationship with god" because I do consult a mental construct of a completely objective being for moral guidance, and that's a god by some standard -- and if there's a real god who wants to communicate with me, that would be a reasonable way for them to do it. I don't think I would say "I have a relationship with god" at this point, but it was true enough at the time that I said it, even though I did also consider myself an atheist at the time. 

      1. Bryan's views

         1. I think saying, "I have a relationship with god" while being an atheist is deception since the commonly held understanding of both terms seem mutually exclusive.

            1. I agree, and I regret having said it, although I do still try to defend it. 

   5. There is a type of deception used in magic that I don't feel comfortable with, and that's manipulation/implantation of memory. Magicians will sometimes say things like "now, I never touched the deck -- it's been in your control the entire time" when there was actually a brief moment when they did touch it and culled a card, or something. For some reason, that makes me pretty uncomfortable. It's not an important thing, but it's an overt lie, and it feels like a bad idea to become comfortable with doing that. 

      1. Bryan's views

         1. Agreed; although, perhaps my previous comment about magic in general being about fooling people makes it not deception since they know this is the object.

   6. Another type of deception that I think is acceptable: configuring a mobile device and/or web browser to provide false location information or browser fingerprint details to combat tracking.

      1. Bryan's views

         1. Interesting case. I don't think I would do it, probably because I'm stuck in a point of view, but can understand why someone would.

   7. or using a VPN for that purpose...

      1. Bryan's views

         1. I'm not sure how this could be considered deception because it's simply hiding information, not misrepresenting it.

   8. Or, when answering "security questions" for authentication, I think it is reasonable to provide unique but technically untrue answers, because there's a chance of that information being disclosed/compromised.

      1. Bryan's views

         1. Another interesting case. I may have done this simply because it was hard to choose a security question with a known answer, but the reasoning seems sound. I would just make note of the answer. Usually I'm truthful, but that does create some risk. I probably should consider this approach, although it seems like 2 factor authentication has reduced the need to use questions and answers.

   9. There are circumstances where telling the truth creates unnecessary risk, and provides little or no value to anyone. 

      1. Bryan's views

         1. Could be. Examples help. One other risk to consider is that deception when discovered reduces trust. Consider the alternative of just witholding information instead of lying.

   10. "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." That's a type of deception, because it gets you thinking about the word "outside" in one context, but then shifts to a different context and uses the antonym "inside". It's like a verbal magic trick. It's a harmless deception that I think most people enjoy. 

       1. Bryan's views

          1. I don't think it's deception at all. It's a play on words like, "dad jokes". I like dad jokes by the way, but since I know they're a play on words, I don't consider it deception.

   11. I've also seen deception used as a teaching tool, to help people learn to be more healthily skeptical. 

       1. Bryan's views

          1. Perhaps the snopes.com is an example of this. I currently can't think of an example I would find acceptable.

   12. snopes.com includes some false claims not clearly labeled as such (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rating/lost-legend/   https://www.snopes.com/false-authority/)

       1. Bryan's view

          1. I didn't previously know about the Lost Legend rating category. I used to feel that snopes.com was a good source for fact checking, and maybe it still is, but having posts with this rating makes me trust them less. I have to remember that some of their posts are false, but not rated as such. It seems unwise to have such posts that aren't clearly explained as being false; especially since it's easy to miss the strange rating.

   13. I disapprove of lying to kids about santa or the easter bunny. We always took the approach of telling our kids those were things we pretend are true because it's fun. The tricky part was in navigating the idea that some parents don't tell their kids it's just a game, and whether it's appropriate to tell their friends the truth. I don't actually remember how I approached that, but I imagine I told them it might be best to just keep quiet about it. That's a complicated issue. 

       1. Bryan's view

          1. I don't think this type of lying is good. The key question to me is whether children are more or less likely to believe their parents when they discover the truth. The question of what to tell their friends is a good one. To me it's a good opportunity for collaboration with kids about what they should do without necessarily telling them what you believe is right for them. Discuss pros and cons and let them decide.

   14. It is common practice for celebrities appearing on talk shows to tell fictional anecdotes as if they're true. The justification is that it is entertainment, and whether it is true does not affect anyone. Is that immoral? 

       1. Bryan's view

          1. I believe it is immoral, although I tend to assume stand-up comedy anecdotes are not true. I guess I would never make it as a stand-up comedian. :-)

   15. Derren Brown, a magician, used to have a particular questionable magic trick that he would perform if someone recognized him on the street and asked him to show them a trick. It went like this:

He would ask them to remove their house key from their keyring and hand it to them. Then he would say something like "of course, this isn't the first time we've met. We met before -- at the key shop, when you had this key made... and if you remember, I asked you to give me a copy of your key, which I told you I would give back to you today, because..." then he would throw their key so that it would land near (or plausibly in) a body of water or a storm drain or something, where it could potentially be irretrievable. The person would naturally go looking for the key, and he would wait. When they inevitably came back without the key, he would say "it's okay -- as I said, you gave me a copy... and here it is." He would hand them a key. When they got home, it would unlock their door.

There would always be some level of conflict and confrontation during that trick. There was usually some amount of anger on the part of the "participant".

Clearly, he's lying about having met them before, but I don't believe it is deceptive, because:

1. He does not expect them to be deceived -- he expects them to disbelieve his "story", because it's just the set-up for the magic trick.

2. He is doing it in the context of a magic trick that they requested, and magic tricks are deception.

There's other deception here too. He didn't actually throw their key. He threw a coin or some other small metal object that would be indistinguishable from a key as it flew through the air, and would sound like a key when it landed. Again, they asked to be deceived, and it is part of the magic trick, but it does arguably waste their time and energy. But... they interrupted his personal life to ask for a free magic performance -- they requested that he take some of his time -- it naturally uses some of their time as well.

Spoiler: While they were off looking for their key, inside his pocket, he had a small key grinder that would create a duplicate (but visually different) copy of their key. (It would make some noise, so the distance was important.)

He liked this trick partly because he wasn't even there for the reveal, to "look smug". The reveal was a private experience for the participant. I don't think he said so, but I suspect that he also liked the trick partly because it inconvenienced the participant, and he didn't entirely appreciate having his personal life interrupted by a fan requesting a free performance.

Anyway... that trick is definitely morally questionable, and I'm curious about your take on it.

1. Bryan's view

   1. I think it is immoral. It doesn't meet my most recent deception exception since his deception falls outside of expectations.