Embedded Files
Music Interview: THE GREAT DECEIVER
THE GREAT DECEIVER
English Version:
HATRED DEVOUR US
- Exclusive interview with THE GREAT DECEIVER
by Demogorgon & Absolution
Done in September 2002
Published on the 1st issue of Dragonland Magazine
Official website: DRAGONLAND
Comes with a free CD, features a licensed THE GREAT DECEIVER track, “Pierced”
Vocalist Tomas Lindberg:
GROTESQUE: released a serial of underground Demos between 1988-1990.
Incantation 1991 Black Sun
In the Embrace of Evil 1996 Black Sun
1990: He and twins Anders Bjorler, Jonas Bjorler conceived INFESTATION – later AT THE GATES. It was signed by one of the original promoters of “Gothenburg Sound”, Black Sun.
Gardens of Grief 1991 Black Sun
The Red in the Sky is Ours 1992 Peaceville
With fear I Kiss the Burning Darkness 1993 Peaceville
Terminal Spirit Disease 1994 Peaceville
Slaughter of the Soul 1995 Earache
SKITSYSTEM: Tomas founded this Hardcore Punk band in 1992.
They released a 7-inch EP Profithysteri in 1995; 10-inch EP Ondskans Ansikte in 1996; 7-inch Split with WOLFPACK in 1998; album Enkel Resa Till Rann in 1999.
Tomas is also a member of Swedish Punk band DISFEAR.
He joined LOCK UP in 2000.
Pleasures Pave Sewers 1999 Nuclear Blast
Hate Breeds Suffering 2002 Nuclear Blast
He is also member of THE CROWN in a short period of time of 2002 – as the vocalist of their fifth album.
Crowned in Terror 2002 Metal Blade
Guitarist Kristian Wahlin:
His first band is GROTESQUE too.
When band split, he founded LIERS IN WAIT (1992-1994) which released their only EP Spiritually Uncontrolled Art under the banner of Black Sun.
He played in DIABOLIQUE for longest time. Roots in 80’ Gothic Rock, New Wave and Indie, Dibolique has released four albums till now.
Wedding the Grotesque 1997 Black Sun
The Black Flower 1999 Black Sun
Butterflies 2000 MCD Necropolis
The Green Goddess 2000 Necropolis
Besides these, he uses pseudonym Necrolord and draw a lot of cover artwork for bands like EMPEROR, DISSECTION, THERION, TIAMAT...
Guitarist Johan Osterberg:
From LIERS IN WAIT to DIABOLIQUE, he is partner of Kristian.
Bassist Matti Lundell:
His another band MOOCH has something similar to FOO FIGHTERS.
New Dummer Hans Nilsson:
LUCIFERION
Demonication (The Manifest) 1994 Listenable / Osmose
CRYSTAL AGE
Far Beyond Divine Horizons 1994 Vic
DIABOLIQUE
DIMENSION ZERO From 1996, Hans Nilsson began to play in both DIABOLIQUE and DIMENSION ZERO.
Penetrations of the Lost World MCD 1997 WAR
Silent Night Fever 2002 Regain
THE DREAT DECEIVER founded not long after AT THE GATES’ split, but the band has not gone around and used the super-lineup to get a record contract. Instead of that, they chose to work hard – for a unique original style.
In 1998, Bridge Records published EP/MCD Cave-In for them; label Trustkill renamed it as Jet Black Art for US market. It shocked the Hardcore scene underground and trusted by Peaceville which worked together with AT THE GATES before. This is the short history of A Venom Well Designed which released May 1992.
A Venom Well Designed has obvious difference with Cave-In: although the angry and aggression within are same core ideology, music is more accessible; vicious lyrics not only speak out the immanency of development towards a better direction, but also emphasizes the importance of nous – compare to nowadays self-conceited nu-Metal. Their influences come from Death Metal and Hardcore, bands like, JOY DIVISION, SUICIDE and THE VELVET UNDERGROUND are worth mention too. Talked about the critic this album has got so far, Johan Osterberg light up with pleasure:
“It’s been getting really great response, were really pleased with it. It couldn’t have been a lot better.”
Using some unusual Hardcore Punk elements, even the angry and aggression within are same as before, you seem to have gone towards a more "accessible" sound on the new album. I find the music is still angry and aggressive, besides, it is more easy-listening than Cave-In... Is this a continuous trend?
“Well, accessible sound or not, but basically it has to do with making better songs, and as far as the future that’s what were gonna continue to do. Also we could have made a more multifaceted spectrum of songs on the mini CD, but when you only have 5 songs you want everything to be as explosive and in-your-face as possible.“
What's the main function of music in your point of view?
“Different types of music have different functions like some music is for entertainment and then you have music that will reach you on an emotional level, for example.”
Could you please explain to us what the connection of Death and Hardcore / Grindcore in your music is?
“As far as our sound is concerned we have some of the aggression from death metal, some of the grooves from grindcore (like NAPALM DEATH) and then we have a lot in common with hardcore when it comes to attitudes and lyrical concepts for example.”
I can feel the outrageous anger in your music, is it in the face of society? Whether it is or not, which kind of society is the best one you want to live in? Or as far as you can see, is there a perfect Human society existing at all?
“Yeah the anger for most of the part directed towards different authorities and other social institutions of power, that exercise oppression or propaganda. As far as an ideal society, a very democratic society is always the best, and I have a hard time seeing a perfect human society happening.”
There are always full of misanthropy in US Metal Hardcore bands, how do you think about them? such as C.O.C. and Suicidal Tendencies.
“We grew up listening to these bands, they were very important back in 87, looking back though, Id say the first Suicidal album is pretty cool, and quite a lot of stuff by COC.”
Do you think music could be used to change reality? Do you think people will listen to? I like the way you express your attitude, such as the chorus of "Pierced" - “Drain me bastard / Uphold the lie / You can fell the system / As it cuts like a knife / Self-righteous bastards / All dead inside / From the depths of my soul / I feel the demons rise” There are not so many face to face critics as US Metal Hardcore bands do, but the vocal part there contained hopelessness? There are few people caring for your voices, then how can we do next step?
“We can only continue to do our own thing and continue to grow and consequently get more people to listen to what we have to say. As you said there is a lot of hopelessness contained in the lyrical content on our album. These things depend on the state of things at the writing and recording of each individual album, so in other words, these things may change.”
Are you still interested in Black Metal music / ideology? Even a small part of the releases' flood?
“It’s hard to find the time to keep track of any new stuff, but every now and then you will hear something that is good. If I have to listen to it though I prefer the old stuff like Bathory.”
If I am not wrong, your friendship began from the old GROTESQUE days. Now many years passed, you all have interests in other music - no matter it is Gothic Rock or Hardcore Punk and the music of THE GREAT DECEIVER is quite different to Grotesque. Have you been preparing for this change from the beginning and made it happen without any regrets?
“Well, Grotesque happened between 88-90, so whatever progression that has occured has to do with a natural evolution on both personal and musical levels.”
I notice that many bands use "nature" and "naturally" to describe their compositions, choices for audience and musical development frequently, but it is such a... blur explanation. I mean, it is very difficult for us to draw a line between "natural" and "unnatural". And every individual's standard is hard to explain. Do you think the social things natural? Do you think socially conscious fits for unrealistic music naturally?
“We more use the terms natural and similar expressions when talking about writing our songs, like that we let everything flow in a very natural way when we write our music, whereas socially conscious is a term that more reflect the lyrics or the band as whole.”
The Great Deceiver can be called an "All Star" Metal Hardcore band in certain sense, how do you feel this view of point?
“If anyone would want to call us that that’s up to them, Tomas is of course very well known for his work with particularly At the Gates and the rest of us has been doing a lot of other stuff as well.”
Lyrically A Venom Well Designed is very good, I know Tomas has many things to say, his experience in the last couple of years has affected the lyrics obviously. But readers / fans still have to wonder how he can keep his writing creativity in such a high level for such a long period of time, especially he contributes to so many bands almost at the same time.
“I know Tomas has been working very hard on the lyrics on the next album, he’s got a lot to say, and he just like the rest of us is very hungry, so there’s no problem. Secondly he is not currently involved in that many other projects.”
Almost all The Great Deceiver band members play in other bands. Are you Able to support yourselves financially with all the bands you work with? If so, is it just the way you choose to make a living? I heard of that the only way in the extreme metal genre to make a living is to either get insanely big or do several different things. Is it true and is it your way?
“Yes, I think its true what you’re saying. At this level it’s not possible to make a living off the music. We all work or study beside playing.”
Tomas said, "The Great Deceiver is the dark hardcore cousin of AT THE GATES, the logical continuation of my career." Is the cover artwork designed by Kristian Wahlin to follow Slaughter of the Soul? For all the bullets...
“Well, as you said there are some similarities, and the two albums have some lyrical themes in common, and a cover mostly illustrates the lyrical content of an album, so...”
Dec. 1, THE GREAT DECEIVER joined NAPALM DEATH tour in Germany, and they will enter Dug Out studio to record the following album, Terra Incognito – named after In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust. The producer will be Daniel Bergstrand (STRAPPING YOUNG LAD, MESHUGGAH, IN FLAMES, DARKANE). Obviously he will bring something new to The Great Deceiver... At last, I have to point out THE GREAT DECEIVER was named after a KING CRIMSON song, but is it related to Satan the Great Deceiver more directly? He is the figure who said to be the reason of why people sink, "it is not because Satan defeats God who is with us, nor because of the pain and suffering of this evil world, but because we are led to believe that either God is not with us at all or that God is not what he says he is. This is deception, deception of the greatest of tricksters." Johan didn’t answer my question, his said “Stay Brutal!”
Chinese Version:
愤怒将我们吞噬
——THE GREAT DECEIVER独家专访
Demogorgon & Absolution
主唱Tomas Lindberg：
GROTESQUE在1988-1990年间发表了一系列地下样带。
Incantation 1991 Black Sun
In the Embrace of Evil 1996 Black Sun
1990年他和孪生兄弟Anders Bjorler，Jonas Bjorler构思了INFESTATION——后来成为AT THE GATES。在这支传奇乐团成立不久，就被“哥德堡之声”的最初促动者之一Black Sun唱片公司看中。
Gardens of Grief 1991 Black Sun
The Red in the Sky is Ours 1992 Peaceville
With fear I Kiss the Burning Darkness 1993 Peaceville
Terminal Spirit Disease 1994 Peaceville
Slaughter of the Soul 1995 Earache
SKITSYSTEM，Tomas在1992年组建了这支硬核朋克乐队。
并且在1995年发表了第一张七寸EP Profithysteri，1996年是十寸EP Ondskans Ansikte，1998年和Wolfpack合作发表一张七寸EP。1999年是专辑Enkel Resa Till Rann。
Tomas还是瑞典朋克乐队DSFEAR的一员。
他在2000年加入了LOCK UP。
Pleasures Pave Sewers 1999 Nuclear Blast
Hate Breeds Suffering 2002 Nuclear Blast
2002年，他还在一个相对比较短暂的时间里加盟THE CROWN，作为他们的第五张专辑的主唱。
Crowned in Terror 2002 Metal Blade
吉它手Kristian Wahlin：
他的第一支乐队也是GROTESQUE。
乐队解散后他成立了LIERS IN WAIT，1992-1994年在Black Sun旗下发表了唯一一张EP——Spiritually Uncontrolled Art。
DIBOLIQUE是他所处时间最长的一支乐队。植根于八十年代哥特摇滚，新浪潮和以前的独立摇滚，至今已经发表了四张专辑。
Wedding the Grotesque 1997 Black Sun
The Black Flower 1999 Black Sun
Butterflies 2000 MCD Necropolis
The Green Goddess 2000 Necropolis
此外，业余时间他还以Necrolord为艺名为大量乐团制作唱片封套例如EMPEROR，DISSECTION，THERION，TIAMAT……
吉它手Johan Osterberg：
从LIERS IN WAIT到DIABOLIQUE，他和Kristian一直是搭档。
贝司手Matti Lundell：
他的另一支乐队MOOCH和FOO FIGHTERS有几分神似。
新鼓手Hans Nilsson：
LUCIFERION
Demonication (The Manifest) 1994 Listenable / Osmose
CRYSTAL AGE
Far Beyond Divine Horizons 1994 Vic
DIABOLIQUE
DIMENSION ZERO从1996年开始同时参与DIABOLIQUE和DIMENSION ZERO。
Penetrations of the lost world MCD 1997 WAR
Silent Night Fever 2002 Regain。
而我们今天这篇文章的主人公THE GREAT DECEIVER在AT THE GATES解散后立刻组建一支新的队伍，没有凭借自己的超级阵容立刻去搞张唱片合约，他们选择埋头苦干——为的是一种独特的原创风格。
1998年，Bridge唱片公司为他们推出了EP/MCD Cave-In，美国公司Trustkill重新将其冠名为Jet Black Art发行。它不但震撼了整个地下硬核圈子，而且再度取得了AT THE GATES的老东家Peaceville的信任。这也就是今年5月《一份精心设计的毒药》（A Venom Well Designed）的由来。
《一份精心设计的毒药》和Cave-In明显有区别：尽管残忍的硬核之声依然是它的中心，音乐听起来却更容易接受；恶毒的词作和如今自大到可笑的新金属相比，不仅仅道出了向着更好的方向发展的紧迫感，同时也强调着理性的重要。他们的影响不只来自死亡金属与硬核，JOY DIVISION，SUICIDE（自杀）和THE VELVET UNDERGROUND（地下丝绒）也要被历数在内。对于它所得到的反应，Johan Osterberg喜形于色。
“反应真的很好，我们也很高兴。似乎已经到顶了。”
囊括了一些不同于寻常硬核的元素，哪怕愤怒和挑衅的味道依旧十足，乐团新专辑的音乐似乎“更容易接受”。这就是THE GREAT DECEIVER未来的方向？
“好吧，不管是不是更容易接受的声音，最基本的，是一定要和写出更好的歌曲相关，就将来而言，这会持续下去。而且，我们本来可以在那张MCD里让歌曲更为多面，可是在只做了五首歌的时候我们只想让一切都尽可能地具有爆炸性和直接。”
在你看来，音乐最主要的功能是什么？
“不同类型的音乐有不同的功能，举个例子，有的音乐是为了娱乐而也有音乐可以在一个情绪层面上触及到你。”
死亡金属与硬核/碾核是怎么在你们的音乐中联系起来的呢？
“就我们的声音而言，我们有一些来自死亡金属的挑衅性，碾核的一些线条（就像NAPALM DEATH），而就态度以及歌词概念来说我们又和硬核非常接近。”
我可以感觉到你们的音乐里无法压抑的愤怒，是针对社会的吗？什么样的社会才是你们最想生存在其中的呢？在你所能看到的地方，又是否有一个完美的人类社会存在？
“耶很多部分的愤怒是直接指向不同的管理层和其它的社会权利机构，是它们在执行压制与宣传。谈到一个理想的社会，一个非常民主的社会当然总是最好的，但是我不会有什么安逸的日子，在它出现以前。”
美国金属硬核乐队的歌词里总是充斥着愤世嫉俗，你们怎么看C.O.C.和SUICIDAL TENDENCIES？
“我们是听着这些乐队长大的，在1987年，他们非常重要，但是回过头去看，我会说第一张SUICIDAL TENDENCIES的专辑很酷，还有C.O.C.的相当一大部分作品。”
那么音乐可以改变现实吗？人们会听吗？我喜欢你们表达态度的方式——例如“Pierced”的合唱部分——“Drain me bastard / Uphold the lie / You can fell the system / As it cuts like a knife / Self-righteous bastards / All dead inside / From the depths of my soul / I feel the demons rise”并不像美国金属硬核乐队一样有那么多赤裸裸的批评，Tomas的嗓音包含的还有绝望……很少有人会关注你们的声音，那么下一步我们还能怎么做？
“我们只能继续做我们自己的事，继续成长，并且因此获得更多的人来听我们不得不说的话。正如你所说的，我们的专辑歌词文本里有着许多绝望。这依靠于创作和录制每张专辑时那些事物的状态，换句话说，这些事物也许会变化。”
你们是否还对黑暗金属洪水一般的出品里的音乐/理念感兴趣？
“现在很难找出时间来跟上任何新东西的步伐了，但不时地你还能听到些好东西。但是在我想听的时候还是倾向于老家伙，例如BATHORY。”
你们的友谊开始于很早以前的GROTESQUE的日子。现在已经过去了那么多年，你们都对其它音乐产生了兴趣——不管它是哥特摇滚还是硬核朋克。THE GREAT DECEIVER的音乐已经和最早的GROTESQUE有了很大差别，你们是否在一开始就做好了这一变化的准备，在它到来的时候没有任何遗憾？
“好吧，GROTESQUE是1988-90年的，所以不论已经发生了哪样的进展，都一定是伴随着同时发生在个人和音乐两个层次上的自然进展。”
注意到这和很多乐队频繁使用“自然”、“自然的”来对自己的创作、音乐的进展和听众群的选择加以形容非常接近，然而这是一种那么模糊的解释。我的意思是，我们总是很难在“自然”与“非自然”之间划下一条明确的界限。每个人都有自己的标准，很难解释。THE GREAT DECEIVER是否认为社会性的事物也同样具备自然性？社会意识是否自然地适合于非现实的艺术——音乐呢？
“我们更是在谈论我们的音乐创作时使用‘自然的’还有相近的术语加以表达，就像：我们在创作音乐时让一切都以一种很自然的方式流动，而社会意识更是在反映歌词或是对乐队整体加以形容时用的术语。”
THE GREAT DECEIVER在某种意义上也能被称作一支“全明星”金属硬核乐队。对这一称谓，你们感觉如何？
“如果有人想那么说我们，是他们自己的事。因为他的作品，Tomas当然很知名——尤其是因为AT THE GATES，而我们剩下的人也同样做过大量东西。”
《一份精心设计的毒药》的歌词很好，过去几年间Tomas的经历导致他明显有很多话要说。但是读者和乐迷肯定会疑问他是怎么在那么长时间里保持那么高水平的持续创作的，特别又在于他同时参与好几支乐队。
“我知道Tomas一直在努力创作下张专辑的歌词，他有很多想说的话，他也乐于让我们保持在非常渴望的状态，所以肯定没问题。第二点是他现在也不参与很多其它的计划了。”
几乎所有THE GREAT DECEIVER的乐队成员都在别的乐队里任职。你们能否依靠参与的这些乐队在经济上自给自足？我听说过在极端金属界，唯一过活的方法要么是疯狂地变红，要么是同时做好几件不同的事。这是否就是你们的生活来源？
“是的，我想你说的没错。在这一层次上是不能依靠音乐生活的。我们在玩音乐之外都在工作或是学习。”
Tomas说过，“THE GREAT DECEIVER是“AT THE GATES一个阴暗的硬核兄弟，我的生涯合理的延续。”再看Kristian为《一份精心设计的毒药》所作封套同样有很多子弹，这张专辑应该是可以被看成是《灵魂大屠杀》（Slaughter of the Soul）的后继了。
“好的，正如你所说，那里有很多相似点，两张专辑有一些共同的歌词主题，还有非常形象化了歌词内容的封套，所以……”
12月1日乐团在德国加入NAPALM DEATH的巡演，并且要在年底进Dug Out录音棚录制下张专辑，暂定标题《这是世界的尽头》（Terra Incognito）——得自普鲁斯特﹝Marcel Proust﹞的《追忆似水年华》（In Search of Lost Time）。制作人是Daniel Bergstrand（曾制作过STRAPPING YOUNG LAD，MESHUGGAH，IN FLAMES，DARKANE的专辑），看来他为乐团带来一些新感觉已经是显而易见的事了……最后，还有一点我不得不指出：THE GREAT DECEIVER的队名得自于KING CRIMSON的一首歌曲，但是我们能说它和“Satan the Great Deceiver”没有关系吗？那是基督教所认为的人们沉沦的原因——“并不是因为击败了与我们同在的神的撒旦，也并不是因为这个邪恶世界的痛苦，而是因为我们被引导着相信神或是不与我们同在，或是和他自称的不同。这是一种欺骗，骗子们最大的欺骗。”Johan没有就此发表评论，他的结语是“Stay Brutal!”
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