Embedded Files
Music Interview: ANAAL NATHRAKH
ANAAL NATHRAKH
English Version:
WHEN THE LION DEVOURS BOTH DRAGON AND CHILD
- Exclusive interview with ANAAL NATHRAKH
by Demogorgon with V.I.T.R.I.O.L.
Done in Jan. 2007
Demogorgon: Hailz V.I.T.R.I.O.L. and Irrumator! Congratulations on the latest opus of ANAAL NATHRAKH! “Bellum Omnia Contra Omnes" is Latin for "Total War Against All”, combine with the previous two album titles, Domine Non Es Dignus and Eschaton, could you tell us your idea of using Latin, the “language of the Dead” for ANAAL NATHRAKH?
Thanks, glad you liked it. As for languages, well Eschaton isn’t actually Latin, it’s originally from a Greek word. But the use of Latin has a couple of reasons. Firstly, there’s just an aesthetic quality to Latin itself, it has a certain sound and feeling that is unique and full of character. Secondly, it has immediate weight and frame of reference. It has been the language of religion and academia for large parts of western history. So if you use standard religious or academic Latin phrases, you’re immediately invoking certain traditions and adding gravitas to your application. The titles in particular work in different ways – Domine non es dignus is a perversion of a liturgical phrase. I like the idea of using the enemy’s weapons against them, if you see what I mean. ‘Bellum…’ is a cool idea that applies to Anaal Nathrakh’s way of thinking, but using the Latin version shows its origins – it was originally used to describe the natural state of mankind before society and government is imposed. So it’s making a statement about human nature, although the specific meaning in our context isn’t quite so direct. Generally, I just find language interesting, there’s a few instances of us using other languages. But, for example ‘Between shit and piss…’ is also originally from a Latin phrase, but it wouldn’t add to it to use the Latin in the same way as ‘Bellum...’ so I chose the English.
Demogorgon: Your music reminds me of EMPEROR’s Prometheus - The Discipline of Fire and Demise-era, both the vocal part and wall of sounds. Whether do you agree with the monikers “The third wave of Black Metal” or “The future of Black Metal”?
Well it’s hard for me to comment, as neither of us has heard the Emperor record you refer to. I supposed it’s hardly a bad thing to be compared to a well respected band like Emperor, but it puzzles us, because we just don’t think we sound anything like them. And we certainly had no intention to do so. As for our position in relation to Black Metal or any other genres, we just don’t care. You can describe us any way you like, it’s irrelevant to us because we just concentrate on making music regardless of what genre it does or doesn’t fit into.
Demogorgon: There is one reviewer from http://www.metal-archives.com/ who wrote: “Brutality - Concept = The Codex Necro” He must see ANAAL NATHRAKH as a band (project?) without any concepts or ideologies. Is it right?
If you thought the answer was yes, I don’t think you’d be bothering with this interview and the questions you’ve chosen. For the vast majority of people, music is something that is intended to sound good, to be enjoyed. Music is a form of entertainment and you don’t need a load of other bullshit to make it worthwhile. But if you do want to get into the other side of it, well, shall I bother with a long answer? Yeah, fuck it… To be honest, I couldn’t care less what the chap says about us or anything else, he has no idea what he’s talking about. He of course is free to say what he likes, but I’m equally free not to care. If you can’t work out what’s going on in Anaal Nathrakh, you’re just not trying. And if anyone doesn’t like hearing that, remember for once that you’re dealing with a genre that is happily elitist and doesn’t set out to make friends. It really isn’t hard to get an idea of what’s going on, and thousands of people have had no problem ‘getting’ the idea. If you’re going to criticize Anaal Nathrakh as having no conceptual direction or commitment, you can only do so if you know what you’re talking about. In this case, and others I’ve seen like it, the person in question admits that they don’t know what we’re singing about (the only reason for which can be that they can’t figure it out, or at least can’t be bothered and should really therefore know better than to comment) and has never met either of us. How seriously can you therefore take what they say? The connected idea of us deciding to slap some music together in a cynical attempt to make money (it came from a site called Ruthless Reviews, anyone repeating it isn’t very original. You can tell from the language used that this is the case) is just plain ridiculous for two reasons – 1) we don’t actually sound anything like ‘typical’ black metal and aren’t trying to, and 2) it just isn’t true; it doesn’t make sense. You don’t get rich playing this kind of music. It actually costs a shitload in time, effort and money to make this music – time that you could better spend sticking your tongue up your boss’ ass if you really wanted to make money in life. The bottom line is, do you like the music? If so, great, thank you. I hope you continue to be into what we do, and I’m glad you got something out of it. If not, tough. It’s a shame, but never mind – we and a fair number of other people do like it, so leave us all to it and move on with your life!
Demogorgon: I suppose it’s the lacking of printed lyrics which made people think so. It seems that you want to neither discuss nor publish the details of your lyrics, could you explain it a little bit clearer? From the titles and information you have given in interviews your work would seem to “revolve around apocalyptic topics, the nature of mortality and anti-human hatred”. But since you’ve never published them, how could your listeners know you are not tongue in cheek for the themes or only senseless screaming? In another word, how can you keep speak out your hatred towards everything without any clear words?
But ‘people’ don’t think so – a couple of self important parts with computers think so, that’s all. You’re right we’ve never published lyrics, but if people really had no idea what we were talking about, how would they have added those themes to Wikipedia for you to rip off and use in a question? There are hundreds of albums without lyric sheets, why all the fuss about ours? I never got lyric sheets with the first Burzum album, De Mysteriis (lyrics weren’t in the original release), The 4th Dimension, Tol Cormpt Norz Norz Norz, the list goes on. Never bothered me, or stopped me understanding what was going on. Some people really need to step away from the computer sometimes. I’ve said it plenty of times before – it’s easily possible to get into the deeper side of what we do, I should know – I put loads of pointers there in the titles, bits you can hear clearly and so on. You don’t need a lyric sheet to understand Anaal Nathrakh.
Demogorgon: If you are right, most people must be too stupid to find or understand what you mean. The valuable thing would not be unveiled – (not) like human being born out of mud and countless dead ends of evolution (It seems there is another controversial idea here, so that I am not sure if I should add the “not” which depends on if you see human is valuable). How do you believe there would be a little amount of individuals to add a “right” explaination about ANAAL NATHRAKH onto Wikipedia? (The “right” here means the most close to your thoughts.)
That’s not quite what I said. It’s true that a lot of people won’t get what we’re talking about, but that’s also true of a huge amount of other music, it depends on who’s listening and how interested they are. The point is, I don’t see the fuss over lyrics. For the most part, if someone is interested in the kind of subjects we deal with, they’ll be able to see some of the references and look into the themes if they want to. For example, it’s fairly well known that we, or I, have an interest in Nietzsche. If you put ‘lion dragon child nietzsche’ into google, you’ll find the relevant passage straight away. And if you actually care about it all, you can read it and think about how the title works, what it’s talking about. That’s what the people who’ve written on Wikipedia did, and what anyone can do. If someone can’t be bothered to do that, then it’s likely they wouldn’t be very interested in what we’re talking about anyway. If a person doesn’t care enough to bother doing all that, then why would they care about lyrics in the first place? There isn’t an entrance exam for Anaal Nathrakh. If you don’t want to get into all the complicated stuff then fine, just listen to the music. That’s what CDs are fundamentally all about anyway. But if you do want to get into the rest of it, it’s all there for you to find. You don’t need lyrics sheets.
Demogorgon: Could you explain why you keep making music if you consider peoples are all stupid living things which lack of the faculty of understanding all these years? How do you define the usage of ANAAL NATHRAKH’s music, its effect to humanity - the purpose of your writing?
Can you explain the purpose of listening to the music unless either a) you like the sound and don’t care beyond that or b) you identify with some of the themes operating in it and derive something from coming into contact with them? I wonder how many other bands get asked in interviews to justify their very existence! And I wonder if Cannibal Corpse get asked why they sell records in shops where women and prostitutes might be able to buy them. The purpose of our music is no different to any other – to instantiate, and allow people to come into contact with, a certain atmosphere and experience that they will get something out of. I personally get a lot out of music like ours, and so do other people who are into that kind of stuff. Again, if you didn’t, you wouldn’t have asked to do this interview. Not every musician who makes music about violence is actually a murderer. I Shot The Sheriff doesn’t imply that Bob Marley was a cop killer, Angel of Death doesn’t mean that Slayer are Nazis, Microwaved Uterogestation doesn’t show that Carcass were really experimenting with quick and easy ways to cook women with unborn babies inside them. Possibly more accurately, 1984 wasn’t written by someone who wanted totalitarian government, Harrison Bergeron wasn’t created by someone who wanted enforced equality, and Kafka didn’t really know anyone who’d literally turned into an insect. There are such things as points of view, food for thought and flights of fancy, and there is art (I mean to use the word as generally and unpretentiously as possible) that reflects these things. Songs aren’t political manifestos, they’re about ideas. The closest ideological musical reference I can think of right now isn’t Dissection, it’s Whitehouse.
Demogorgon: I suppose certain ones would be shocked by your answer, once they know ANAAL NATHRAKH is not creating sonic weapons to destroy peoples’ viewpoints towards the world...
Again, that’s not what I said. What I mean is, Anaal Nathrakh isn’t a political pressure group or religious organisation. We aren’t trying to persuade anyone to do anything. If you want to try to tell people how to live their lives, then music isn’t the best way to do it. You go into politics or religion. Or if you do use music, you use a more popular form of music than we play. But that doesn’t mean that Anaal Nathrakh doesn’t have a point of view. We have certain feelings and ideas about the world and humanity, and these things are shown in our music. They are shown as a matter of depiction and expression that might provoke a reaction in the listener, but they remain a depiction. If people find that the ideas resonate with them then that means we’ve achieved something. It’s the same as Vikernes once said that the aim of Burzum was ‘to stimulate mortals, to make them dream’ – we’d make them dream about different things to Burzum I guess, and we’d use more ‘real’ ideas. But the point is similar. We are operating from a point of view of real beliefs, but we sing about things, not to achieve them. What people choose to do is their business and not our responsibility, and the fundamental purpose is the music itself. But I don’t think that’s quite as bland and cynical as your question implies.
Demogorgon: It has been discovered that Caenorhabditis elegans gene CED-9 protects cells from programmed cell death while CED-4 and CED-3 cause cell death. So there must be genes with the same function in human gene and humanity is destined to die in the end. But if human become the “disease” just like quotes from The Matrix – “You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.”(Agent Smith) then it would not die programmed. I suppose ANAAL NATHRAKH has certain hatred towards human being, and also look humanity as a deathless disease, whether do you stand on the side of Death or Disease? Do you hope the disease of humanity survive from the ripper’s sickle? (Do you believe the disease of humanity would die or continue its spreading without end?)
Haha, you ask about the value of humanity and start the question by talking about worms! The straightest answer would be I don’t know. People feel different at different times. Sometimes I find myself thinking that it would be best if humans had never existed in the first place. Sometimes I think that maybe we deserve obliteration. Our societies mercilessly and endlessly rape our environments to feed our greed, and we seldom stop to think if what we’re doing is right as long as it’s convenient. When individuals do that, it’s pathetic and cruel. When societies do it, it’s called civilisation. And the exploitation and violence against ourselves is really quite breathtaking. And I don’t see any hope that we will ever improve – we as a species seem to be intrinsically, inexorably fucked by our own worst qualities. Damn it all to hell. Other times I’m hopeful enough to think it’s only some of the people in the world whose existence is a bad thing. And at other times I see Anaal Nathrakh as part of a culture that’s analogous to Socrates’ horse fly (except we’re more like an ice pick!). Sometimes I sympathise deeply with Nietzsche’s madman (people who actually pay any attention will know that we’ve mentioned that character in the past). These things aren’t unique or even unusual – lots of people think like that sometimes. Anaal Nathrakh as an entity is all these things wrapped up together, and as often as it’s pointing fingers, it’s also horrified that things couldn’t have worked out differently. In terms of mindset, it’s a bit like the desperate, acid spitting counterpart to G.G.F.H.’s corpse in the basement. To address your point of death, I think you’ve made a slight mistake – the death of an individual may be ‘programmed’, but that doesn’t mean that the species dies out. Individual human beings die eventually, whatever the subjective importance of the things they do while active, but objectively they reproduce in greater numbers without purpose or need beyond their continued existence as a species, and to the detriment of their environment. If you imagine an alien life form that didn’t care about us at all, that’s how I think they’d see it. And that’s precisely where the disease/cancer idea comes from.
Demogorgon: Eschaton refers to the end of everything, as studied in the subject of eschatology. If I am not totally wrong, Eschatology is developed from the belief of Christian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology/) In order to avoid of anything blur, could you tell me why you choose this controversial title for your new album?
I don’t recognize a Christian dimension to the idea beyond the fact that Christianity has certain theories/beliefs on the matter. The word may be used in Christian theory, but it comes from an older source, and there are plenty of non-christian themes and thoughts on the subject too. I can’t think of a single reason not to use that title – it’s a fascinating subject. It must be, there are hundreds of books, theories, works of art all dedicated to it. Originally we were going to call the album Timewave Zero, as I’d come across the idea and found it fascinating (even though it might have dubious origins). That idea states that you can analyse history in terms of novelty (in this case, novelty means inventiveness of human society, or times of advance in technology or thought, etc) and see that there is a pattern that not only runs backwards through time, but is also logical and therefore predictable – eventually the instance of novelty reaches a crucial point where its effects are so massive that society itself will not be able to exist in the same way it had previously, or possibly at all. That is predicted to happen on the 21st of December 2012. It became clear that not only did other ideas/prophecies say the same or similar things about the end of the world, but that the whole idea was bigger than just one theory. There are a huge number of related ideas and facets to something as enormous as the end of the world, so we broadened the scope of the album, and didn’t stick only to one central idea. But the theme of the end of the world runs through a lot of the album, and so the title was chosen.
Demogorgon: Is the track "The Yellow King" the “sonic equivalent” of R.W. Chambers' “The King in Yellow” to drive people insane?
Well, you’ve spotted the origins of the title, I don’t think anyone else I’ve spoken to has so far. So well done. Music isn’t going to drive anyone insane unless they’re already mad to begin with. And we’re not mentally ill enough to delude ourselves that it will. But that idea is what’s behind the song, yes. It’s not likely to actually drive people mad by listening to it, but it’s about that sort of thing.
Demogorgon: Here is a “tough” question to Irrumator: is your pseudonym related to eroticism? (http://www.sex-lexis.com/Sex-Dictionary/irrumator) Is it one of the aspects you designed to link with the death wish of ANAAL NATHRAKH?
Not particularly. We were thinking of names to use and I found Irrumator and suggested it to Mick because it essentially meant ‘face fucker’. The purpose of pseudonyms in our case is just really to separate the music from us as individuals, to allow it to stand on its own. So there’s not much point in trying to read too much into them.
Demogorgon: From 1999 till now, eight years have passed; we all grow older while music scene evolved quite a lot. In my opinion, Eschaton is better than older albums, especially the vocal parts which are solider, stronger, with more melodies but still full of hatred and aggression. Could you share some learning from these years with listeners or readers here? Older, wiser or more hatred?
Thanks, I’m glad you appreciated the progression. Vocally I’m always trying to find a new way, there’s been at least one new ‘voice’ on every CD I’ve done, and I’m quite proud of the way everything still fits together, but still moves forward and experiments with new sounds. As for the album in general, we’ve never really consciously tried to move the music or go in a particular direction, it’s just that you naturally mature and develop over time. Mick writes the music, and it’s pretty instinctive the way he does it. I really don’t know how, but he can have an idea and then very quickly there’s a whole song on tape. And when we record the vocals, we do it in a quite spur-of-the-moment way too. I’ve got concepts and words ready and all that of course, but in terms of the actual sounds and arrangements that’s how it works. So I suppose if there’s something we’ve learned over the years it’s don’t think too much, do what feels right. Older, yes, more disillusioned, more despairing, just as hateful, and more in control.
Demogorgon: You’ve claimed for years that ANAAL NATHRAKH would have no plans to perform live, but since 2005, you began to play gigs. Could you tell me what made you changed mind?
Well I don’t know whether you could really call that a claim – it’s just a statement – we simply had no plans to do so. It all came about because the BBC asked us to play a live session for them, and so we decided to put together a full live band for the session. Just as something to try, you know. Once we’d done that, Terrorizer magazine asked us to play a show, and we figured since we’d got a band together and found that the songs worked live, we may as well go for it. It turned out really well, we were surprised that people were so enthusiastic, simply because we’d never thought about it before. We realised that there was good reason to play live, and that people wanted to see us. So although we want to keep the shows relatively rare and special, we’re looking forward to being able to play again.
Demogorgon: Eschaton features guest appearances by Danny Herrera, Shane Embury from NAPALM DEATH and Attila Csihar from MAYHEM, so that the lively feel combines with more Grindcore feelings this time. Could you please unveil their contribution to this album here?
No, I wouldn’t say the people we’ve had as guests have really changed the direction of the music itself – the music’s written the same way as always, it’s only afterwards that maybe a guest musician will contribute something. But yeah, it’s been amazing for us to have the chance to get those guys involved (actually Danny didn’t play on the album, but Shane and Attila are there), they’re unique and talented people who we’ve been fans of for a long time. So for us personally it’s a real honour to work with them. Shane played bass on the whole album. We’ve known him for years, after all we’re from the same place. And he’s been into our music since he heard a song of ours and liked it a few years back. So he’s been pretty keen on having yet another band to be involved with, and he’s played in our live lineup and so on. So it was a pretty obvious choice to ask him if he wanted to play on the album. And of course it’s great for us as fans. Attila sang the verse parts on the last song on the album, it seemed appropriate because that track’s a pretty unusual, experimental style track, and Attila’s a pretty unusual, experimental sort of guy. Again, we’re big fans, especially of his work on De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, so it’s great for us personally to have him involved. There were also a couple of other guest contributions we were hoping to include on Eschaton (principally Ghost from G.G.F.H. and Joe from Circle of Dead Children), but they didn’t come off this time around. Hopefully next time…
Demogorgon: What’s your opinion about Black Metal and Norsecore?
Norsecore? What the fuck is norsecore? Sounds pretty stupid to me, I’ve no idea what it is. Black Metal isn’t the only style of music we’re interested in, but when it’s done right it is like no other kind of music. We both have wide ranging tastes, personally I like most things that are utterly horrible. But Black Metal is a central part. Anyone who loves black metal doesn’t need to have it explained to them, and if you don’t understand it then there’s no point in trying to explain it. I think that will sound familiar to a lot of people.
Demogorgon: “Essentially, norsecore is grindcore influenced black metal. However, norsecore is not always fast, and usually has more of a musical direction than grindcore, sounds little like it, and is produced by bands that are not in fact musically influenced by grind. The roots of norsecore can be traced to the 1994 release of Transilvanian Hunger by the Norwegian band Darkthrone, although some norsecore elements were present in A Blaze in the Northern Sky.”(http://www.answers.com/topic/norsecore) You can see the link of ANAAL NATHRAKH there. Maybe for the influence of Grindcore...
I don’t accept the term norsecore. Your quote comes from an article, much of the rest of which is devoted to explaining the derogatory nature of the word, and the Wikipedia article it’s ripped off from ends by stating that it’s not a real genre of music. It’s a silly term. The world doesn’t need any more stupid genre names that you have to look up to understand. Some kind of mixture of Black Metal and Grindcore would be useful to explain what Anaal Nathrakh sounds like to someone who’s never heard it I guess, although we have no interest in genres ourselves. But I believe the term norsecore to be virtually useless in explaining anything.
Demogorgon: So here comes the end, any last comments here? The evolution of ANAAL NATHRAKH’s idea always obsesses our readers. All the darkest wishes to you!
Thanks for the support. I hope the interview makes interesting reading. I don’t have anything inspirational to add, which in comparative terms is pathetic. Sometimes the world fucks you and all your effort can achieve is holding your head up and not giving in. Sometimes you keep going simply out of spite.
Chinese Version:
当狮子吞噬龙与孩子，没有天真也不再遗忘，没有“你应”惟余“我要”！
——ANAAL NATHRAKH独家专访
采访、撰文/Demogorgon
在2001年的首张专辑《死体密码》（The Codex Necro）和2004年的第二张专辑《主并不配》（Domine Non Es Dignum）接连带给极端金属界至高无上的声学和哲学冲击之后，英国碾核黑暗金属计划ANAAL NATHRAKH[蛇的呼吸，《石中剑》（Excalibur）里唤醒巨龙的符咒]分别在2006年和2007年的10月推出第三、四张专辑《末日》（Eschaton）和《地狱空了，所有恶魔都在这儿》（Hell is Empty, and all the Devils are Here）。不但将发生在听众头脑中的大屠杀推进一步，而且把引领我们进入末日概念与符号学的领域时的路线刻印得更加清晰。我与主唱V.I.T.R.I.O.L.[BENEDICTION（祝福）的前任主唱Dave Hunt]的交流不但是对这路线的探究，而且让乐团获得一个给评论以评论的机会。我们的讨论从音乐概念开始：黑暗金属（Black Metal）和北方核（Norsecore）。对此，V.I.T.R.I.O.L.的反应有些惊讶：“北方核？北方核是他妈的什么东西？听起来颇蠢，我对它没有任何概念。我们唯一感兴趣的音乐类型是黑暗金属，做的好的话它和别的音乐类型都不一样。我们都有着广泛的口味，我个人喜欢大多数绝对恐怖的事物。而黑暗金属显然是其中一部分。用不着对任何热爱黑暗金属的人解释这一点，而假如你不理解的话，（我们）努力解释也没用。我认为它对很多人听起来会差不多。”
关于北方核，我在网上看到这么一段解释：“北方核，尽管起初是给缺乏任何真正的态度和/或意识形态的爆炸性高速黑暗金属的损毁性的术语，但是已经有几分成为对乐队的有效描述，也已经成为重金属乐迷中的一个稳定定义。北方核本质上（有时被标为‘黑暗’碾核）是碾核（不提死亡和鞭击的影响）融合黑暗金属的唱法、意象和意识形态。”（http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/norsecore/）“本质上，北方核是受到碾核影响的黑暗金属。但是，北方核并不总是很快，并且通常比碾核更有音乐方向，两者听起来不怎么相象，是由一些音乐上没怎么受到碾核影响的乐团创作的。北方核的根源可以追溯到挪威乐团Darkthrone（暗黑宝座）的1994年作品《特兰西瓦尼亚饥饿》（Transilvanian Hunger），虽然一些北方核的元素已经在《北方天空中的一道利闪》（A Blaze in the Northern Sky）中得到了展现。”（http://www.answers.com/topic/norsecore）那个页面之前有ANAAL NATHRAKH的链接。
V.I.T.R.I.O.L.立刻指出：“我不接受北方核这一术语。你的引文来自于一篇文章，它的其它部分多是献给这一字眼的贬义本质的，只要宣称这并非是一个真实的音乐类型就从根本上撕裂了这篇维基百科文章。它是个愚蠢的术语。这个世界并不需要更多愚蠢的类型名称让你非得去找寻它的意思了。我猜黑暗金属和碾核的某种混合物就可以很好地对从来没听过Anaal Nathrakh的人解释我们的音乐听起来像什么，尽管我们自己对类型没什么兴趣。但是我相信北方核这一术语对于解释任何东西都没有什么实际用处。”
他的回答让你吃惊吗？ANAAL NATHRAKH这么一支从不公布任何歌词的乐团却对定义、文字和概念如此敏感。其实语言和文字一直是这个计划的主要关注点之一，他们从来不会说“歌词不重要”之类的话，如果你没意识到这一点，如果你不能从蛛丝马迹中找出他们在说什么，只能说明你还不够关心。例如《末日》的第一首歌曲“反对一切的战争（Bellum Omnia Contra Omnes）”使用拉丁语为名，结合《主并不配》和《末日》两张专辑的标题，说明拉丁语这一“死者的语言”是ANAAL NATHRAKH的最爱，这是有原因的。
V.I.T.R.I.O.L.说：“谈到语言，好的，‘末日（Eschaton）’实际上并非拉丁语，它起初来自于一个希腊词汇。但是使用拉丁语有几个原因。首先，在拉丁语本身有着一种美学的价值，它有着一种确定的发音和感觉，十分独特并且具有个性。第二，它具有直接的重量和引证的框架。它曾是西方宗教和学术界很大程度上使用的语言。因此，如果你使用标准的宗教或是学术拉丁短语，你立即唤起了确定的传统，并且为你的应用增添了重量。特定作品的标题使用了不同的方式——《主并不配》扭曲了一则礼拜短语。我喜欢这个主意：使用敌人的武器去反对他们自身，如果你明白我的意思的话。‘反对一切的战争’是一个适合于Anaal Nathrakh思考方式的很酷的想法，但是使用拉丁版本显示出它的起源——它最初被用来形容社会和政府被强加于人类之上时的本质。所以它是在做出关于人类本性的声明，尽管在我们的文本中这一特定涵义并不那么直接。通常而言，我只是发现语言很有趣，我们也有些使用其它语言的例证。但是，例如‘我们生于屎尿之间（Between Shit and Piss We are Born）’最初同样来自于拉丁短语，但是它并不像‘反对一切的战争’那样可以增加相同的（感觉）所以我选择了英语。”
有趣，同时有深度，但是有一名来自http://www.metal-archives.com/的评论者写道：“残忍-概念=《死体密码》”。他将ANAAL NATHRAKH看成是一支没有任何概念或者理念的乐团（计划）。对此，V.I.T.R.I.O.L.指出：“假如你认为这一答案是‘是’的话，我认为你就不会烦心来做这次采访或是提出你所选择的问题了。对于绝大多数人们而言，音乐是一些听起来不错的，用来娱乐的东西。音乐是一种娱乐，你并不需要一大堆其它的东西来使它值得去听。但是假如你真的想要进入它的另外一面，好的，我能做一个长一点的回答吗？耶，操……坦诚说来，我并不关心这个家伙对我们或者是别的说了什么，他并不知道他在谈论些什么。当然，他有自由来说出他喜欢说的，但是我也有同样的自由不去理会。假如你搞不明白Anaal Nathrakh在发生些什么，你就是没有努力。而假如有人不喜欢听到这个，就请记住你碰见的恰巧是一个精英类型，它并不准备交很多朋友。搞明白在发生些什么其实并不难，有成千上万的人毫无问题地‘明白’这一点。假如你准备以没有概念方向或是承诺来批评Anaal Nathrakh，你只有在你知道你在讨论些什么的时候才能这么做。在这个例子，以及我曾经看过的其它地方，提问的人承认他们并不知道我们在唱什么（唯一原因在于他们想不出来，或者至少是不愿操心，因此比起做评论来，他们更会做批评），并且从没与我们两人中任何一个会面。那么你能把他们说的看得多重？将我们决定把一些音乐揉成一次玩世不恭的尝试之中赚钱相联系的看法（它来自于一个名为‘无情评论（Ruthless Reviews）’的站点，任何重复这一看法的人都不算原创。你能从这个例子所使用的语言中看出）真的非常荒谬，有两个原因——1）我们听起来并不像任何‘典型的’黑暗金属，而且不准备这么做，而且2）它说的不是事实；毫无意义。你靠玩儿这种音乐不能发家致富。实际上制作这种音乐花费一大堆时间、努力和金钱——假如你真的想在生命中挣钱的话把这些时间花在去舔你老板的屁眼上会更好。底线是，你是否喜欢这音乐？如果是，谢谢你。我希望你继续深入我们在做的事，而我很高兴你从中获得些什么。如果不是，不幸。让人惋惜，但是没有关系——我们以及还可以的一部分人真的喜欢它，那就把我们和它留在一起，继续你的生活！”
那么是不是因为没公布印刷歌词才导致听众和评论者们如此认为？从歌曲标题以及在采访中获得的信息看，这些作品主题似乎“围绕着天启、道德的本质和反人类的仇恨”。但是乐团不愿意讨论歌词细节，也不愿意把它们印出来。那么，既然从不印刷，听众又如何得知不是就这些主题开玩笑或者仅仅是无意义地尖叫呢？换句话说，乐团如何能够保持面对一切说出仇恨，却不使用清晰的字眼？对此，V.I.T.R.I.O.L.的看法是：“但是‘人们’并不这样认为——一些带着电脑看重自己的人这么想，就是这样。你说的没错，我们从没印出歌词，但是假如人们对我们在讲些什么真的没有任何概念，他们为何会在维基百科上加上你引用在这个问题中的那些主题？（‘天启、道德的本质和反人类的仇恨’）有成百张专辑没有歌词页，为什么到我们这就大惊小怪？我从来没有在这些专辑中得到歌词页： Burzum（黑暗）的第一张专辑，《撒旦主人的秘密仪式》（De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas，首版没有歌词），《四度空间》（The 4th Dimension），Tol Cormpt Norz Norz Norz，这个名单很长。从来没让我觉得烦恼，或者是不明白其中是什么意思。有的时候一些人的确需要从电脑旁边走开。我以前说过很多次——进入我们在做的事情的更深层面可能很容易，我知道——我在标题里、你能听清楚的片段中间等等置入了大量暗示。你理解Anaal Nathrakh并不需要歌词页。”
假如你是对的，大多数人一定非常愚蠢，以至于无法理解你们的意思。有价值的事物将得不到揭示——（不）像人类从泥土和无止境的进化中诞生（这里似乎有着另外一个争论性的主张，所以我并不确信是否应该加上“不”。因为它的存在依赖于你是否认为人类的存在有着价值）。而在事先，乐团又是如何确信会有一定数量的个体在维基百科上加上关于ANAAL NATHRAKH的“正确”解释？假如他们加上的是类似于“北方核”那样的解释就会产生误解。
V.I.T.R.I.O.L.思索了一下：“那并不完全是我的意思。确实有很多人不明白我们在说些什么，但是也确实有着很大数量的其它类型的音乐，依赖于谁在听以及他们有着何种兴趣。关键在于，我没看到歌词上有什么大惊小怪。通常，如果某人对我们面对的某些话题感兴趣，他们就会看到其中一些引证，如果想的话，他们还会调查这些主题。比如众所周知的，我们，或者是我，对尼采很感兴趣。假如你在google输入‘狮子 龙 孩子 尼采（lion dragon child nietzsche）’，你就能找到相关的章节。而假如你真的关心，你就会去阅读并且思考这一标题的作用，它在讨论些什么。[此处指的是《末日》第七首作品‘当狮子吞噬龙与孩子（When the Lion Devours Both Dragon and Child）’-Demogorgon注]。这就是那些在维基百科全书上写作的人们所做的，以及所能做的。假如有人不愿意烦心去这么做，那么他们似乎无论如何都不会对我们在讨论什么感兴趣。而假如一个人并没有关心到去烦心这么做的地步，那么他们又怎么会上来就关心歌词？这并非是Anaal Nathrakh的入场测试。如果你不愿意进入所有这些复杂的东西，那么也好，就只听音乐吧。CD最基本上毕竟是关于这个的。但假如你真的想进入其它部分，它们就在那儿等着你。你并不需要歌词页。”
那么，道理就是这样了：ANAAL NATHRAKH在利用没有明确印刷出歌词的歌曲区分出真正喜欢他们、明白他们在做些什么的听众。想了解的人自然会去深究，而对于不想了解的人，就算你详细地对他们说上一百遍也是无用。不关心的就是不关心，和你如何努力地去向他们推介毫不相关。而能否让认真推导的人得出一个最接近乐团希望他们获得的结论，也是对乐团水准的考验，例如乐团器乐手，NAPALM DEATH（死亡汽油弹）的封套设计师Mick Kenney以前的艺名Irrumator似乎是个纰漏，仔细查询它的来历后，我们认为那与同性色情相关：http://www.sex-lexis.com/Sex-Dictionary/irrumator
V.I.T.R.I.O.L.似乎也有所觉察：“尤其不是。我们在想用什么名字的时候是我找到的Irrumator并向Mick建议的，因为它的基本意思是‘操脸的人（face fucker）’。在我们这里使用艺名的目的仅仅是想把我们个人和音乐分来，使得它能独立存在。所以从中读出太多并不关键。”
从乐团1999年的组建到现在已经过去了十年；音乐圈发展了不少，我们也都成长了不少。新专辑要好过以往，尤其是人声部分更坚固、更强悍，有更多的旋律，依然充满着仇恨与激进。V.I.T.R.I.O.L.和听众以及读者分享这些年的一些所学所想：“谢谢，我很高兴你对于进展的称赞。从唱腔上来说我一直都在寻找新的方式，在我所做过的每张CD里至少有一种新的‘人声’，对于一切都能相互适合，但还能前进并且有着新声音的实验的方式我感到很自豪。从整体上看专辑，我们从未真的有意识地试图塑造音乐或是朝着某一特定方向进展，只是你伴随时间自然地成熟和发展。Mick以他天生的方式写下音乐。我确实不知道是怎么做的，但是他能产生一个想法，然后很快磁带上就有了一首完整的歌曲。然后我们录制人声部分，我们也以一种相当即兴的方式写歌。当然是我准备好概念和文字，但是实际上起作用的声音和编曲是经过商议的。所以我认为假如这些年我们学到了些什么的话，就是别想太多，按照你感觉上正确的去做。老了一些，是的，没那么多幻想了；更失望，和以前一样可恨，但更有控制。”
这让我想到《普罗米修斯——火与死亡的纪律》（Prometheus - The Discipline of Fire and Demise）时期的EMPEROR（帝王），同样地被冠以“黑暗金属第三浪潮”和“黑暗金属的未来”的称号。
“就这一点我很难做出评论，因为我们两人都没有听过你提到的这张Emperor专辑。我认为被和Emperor这样一支广受赞誉的乐团不怎么是坏事，但是这让我们有点困惑，因为我们只是不希望我们听起来像他们那样。而且我们当然没有这么做的意图。而就我们与黑暗金属或者其它任何类型相关的位置，我们并不关心。你能按照任何你喜欢的方式来形容我们，这与我们没有关系，因为我们只是集中精力于制作音乐，不管它适合或者不适合任何类型。”
从音乐类型扩展开去，ANAAL NATHRAKH坚持创作的意义应如何定义？是影响人性还是毁灭人性，即便大多数人类都是如此缺乏理解力的生命？
“除非a）你喜欢这种声音而且并不关心它之外的东西或者b）你和在其中运作的某些主题发生一致并且在与之接触中推导出一些东西，否则你如何解释听音乐的目的？我会惊讶于有多少其它乐团在采访中被问及自身存在的道理！而且我会惊讶于Cannibal Corpse（食人者之尸）被问及他们为何在唱片店里卖唱片给可能买它们的女人和妓女时会如何回答。我们的音乐的目的和其他人没有什么不同——具体点，就是允许人们与之发生接触，一个他们将从中获得些什么的具体氛围和体验。我个人从与我们类似的音乐中获得很多，其他进入此类作品中的人也一样。再一次，如果你没有进入，你就不会来做这次采访。并非每个创作和暴力有关的音乐的音乐家都是真实的杀人犯。‘我射杀了行政司法长官（I Shot The Sheriff）’并非暗示Bob Marley是一个杀警察的人，‘死亡天使（Angel of Death）’并非意味着Slayer（杀手）是纳粹分子，‘微波子宫妊娠（Microwaved Uterogestation）’并不显示出Carcass（尸体）真的实验过用简便易行的方式烹饪怀有未出生婴儿的女人。更准确的可能是，《1984》并不是由一个渴望极权主义政府的人所写，《哈里森•布吉朗》（Harrison Bergeron）并不是由想要强力推行平等的人所创作，卡夫卡也并不认识什么确实变成一只昆虫的人。这类事物只是观点，思想的食物以及想象力的奔放，艺术（我尽可能普遍性并且不狂妄自大地使用这个词语）反映出这些事物。歌曲不是政治宣言，它们是关于概念的。我现在所能想到最接近意识形态的音乐证明并非Dissection（解剖），而是Whitehouse（白宫）。”“（ANAAL NATHRAKH在创作毁灭人类关于世界的观点的声学武器）并不是我说的话。我的意思是，Anaal Nathrakh并不是一个政治压力团体或者宗教组织。我们并不试图说服任何人去做任何事。如果你想尽力告诉人们该如何过活，那么音乐并非最好的方式。你该进入政治或者宗教。而假如你真的使用音乐，你该使用一种比我们玩的更流行的音乐类型。但是这并不意味着Anaal Nathrakh没有观点。我们对于世界和人性有着明确的感觉和概念，这些东西展现于我们的音乐。它们作为一种叙述和表达，可能会在听众里唤起一种反应，但是它们依然保持是一种叙述。假如人们发现这些概念和他们产生共鸣，那就意味着我们达到了一些什么。这和Vikernes一次说到Burzum的目的是‘刺激凡人，让他们做梦’是一样的——我猜我们让他们梦到了和Burzum不同的事物，我们使用更‘真实’的概念。而关键点是相近的。我们运作于真实信念的观点，但是我们歌唱事物，而非达成它们。人们选择如何去做是他们的事，而并非我们的责任，最基本的目的是音乐本身。但是我认为那并不像你的问题所暗指的那么温和与讥讽。”
但是从各方面的事实看来确是如此：就末日学的研究，Eschaton意味着一切的终结。假如我并没有完全弄错，末日学是从基督教信仰中发展起来的学科（http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology/）。为了防止有所混淆，V.I.T.R.I.O.L.具体解释了一下为何选用这个争议性的标题：“我并不承认基督教在这一想法上除了有着明确的理论/信念的事实之外还有一个基督教的维度。这个词语可能被用在基督教的理论之中，但是它来自于一个更古老的渊源，在这一论题上也有着大量非基督教的主题和想法。我想不到什么不使用这一标题的原因——这是一个迷人的论题。一定能有上百的书籍、理论、作品和艺术全都是献给它的。我们最初想把专辑叫做《时间浪潮零》（Timewave Zero），因为我想起这个概念，感觉它很迷人（即便它有着含糊的起源）。这个概念陈述出你能够以新奇的字眼分析历史（在此，新奇意味着人类社会的发明创造，或是技术、思想等等上的提升时代）并且看到并不只是随着时间，而且在逻辑上也有着一个倒退的样式，因此是被预示的——最终新奇的情况达到一个关键点，它的效果是如此巨大以至于社会自身完全不能再如此前一般或是可能的方式存在。这被预示将在2012年12月21日发生。不只是其它的概念/预言就世界末日说出相同或者相近的东西，而且这整个概念已经超出一项理论，这一点已经演变得十分清楚。关于世界末日之类一样庞大的东西有很多的相关概念与事实，所以我们拓展了专辑的范围，而并不只是黏着于一个核心概念。但是世界末日的主题贯穿专辑中很大一部分，于是选了这个标题。”
世界会有末日吗？也可能只是对人类世界而言。我们已经发现在线虫（Caenorhabditis elegans）基因中有防止细胞程序化死亡的CED-9，也有导致细胞死亡的CED-4和CED-3。那么在人类基因中也一定有着相同功能的序列，人性也就命定会在最终死亡。但是假如人类成为类似密探史密斯在《骇客帝国》（The Matrix）中所述的“疾病”——“你们移到一片区域，而后你们繁殖再繁殖直到所有的自然资源被消耗殆尽，你们能够幸存下来的唯一方法就是扩张到另外一片区域。在这颗行星上有着另外一种有机体有着同样的模式。你知道它是什么吗？病毒。人类是一种疾病，这颗行星的癌症。”那么它就会像癌症一样避免程序化的死亡。对于人类有着明确的仇恨，也将人性视作不死的疾病的ANAAL NATHRAKH是站在死亡一侧还是疾病一侧？是希望“人性”这一疾病与人性一道死亡还是从死神的镰刀下幸存，继续它那无止境的散播？
V.I.T.R.I.O.L.大声笑着：“哈哈，你问到人性的价值并且从讨论蠕虫开始这一问题！最直接的答案将是我并不知道。人们在不同时间的感觉是不一样的。有时我发觉自己在想假如人类从一开始就不存在才是最好的事情。有时我想我们值得一次大清洗。我们的社会毫无仁慈地并且无尽地强奸我们的环境来满足我们的贪婪，而只要还有着便利，我们就很少停下来思考我们在做的是否正确。当个体这么做的时候，它将是可悲并且残酷的。当社会这么做的时候，它被称为文明。反对我们自身的开发和暴力真的让人喘不过气。我看不到我们将得到改进的任何希望——我们似乎是一个本能地、不屈不挠地被我们自身最恶劣本质所操翻的物种。诅咒这一切下地狱吧。其它时候我有着足够的希望，想着世界上只有某一部分人存在才是坏事。而其它的时候我认为Anaal Nathrakh是类似于苏格拉底的‘牛邙文化’的一部分（只是我们更像一把冰镐！）。有时我深深地同情尼采的‘狂人’（真正付出足够关注的人会知道我们在过去提到了这一形象）。这些事物并非特殊或者不寻常——很多人有时都这样想。Anaal Nathrakh作为一个将所有这些事物包裹在一起的实体，总是指责，事物无法以不同的方式动作也很可怖。心态上，它更像是穷途末路，G.G.F.H.（全球种族灭绝忘记天堂）在地下室里的尸体那里吐出酸液的对应物。述及你对于死亡的观点，我想你犯了一个小小的错误——一个个体的死亡可能是‘程序化的’，但是这并不意味着物种灭绝。不管他们在活动时所做的事情主观上有多么重要，个体人类最终死亡，而客观来看他们在超越其作为一个物种持续存在之外的目的及需要复制了很大的数量，对他们的环境造成了损害。假如你想象一种压根不关心我们的异星生命，这就是我认为他们所看到的。这恰好是疾病/癌症的来源。”
从某个角度来讲，ANAAL NATHRAKH的作品是“人性”这一疾病在精神层面上的毒剂，让现代社会中的“正常的”人在收听之后变得“不正常”，从“人性”的控制中脱离出来。这探索在历史上一直未曾停息，从文学、电影、宗教、生物学到音乐，都在ANAAL NATHRAKH里得以再现：英国著名诗人狄兰•托马斯（Dylan Thomas）的诗文《不要温柔地走进那安祥的夜晚》（Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night）、电视剧《黑爵士二世》（Black-Adder II）、影片《撕裂地平线》（Event Horizon）、电影版《1984》、莫扎特的歌剧《魔笛》（The Magic Flute）、尼采、耶稣、致命鹅膏菌……“The Yellow King（黄衣国王）”这首歌则是R.W. Chambers让人发疯的《黄衣国王》（The King in Yellow）的“声学等价物”：“你指出了这一标题的出处，我不记得和我谈过的其他人走到过这么远。做的不错。音乐并不会让任何人发疯，除非他们一开始就已经疯了。我们并没有精神疾病到自欺可以做到这一点的地步。但是这首歌背后的观点就是这个，是的。并非真的让人听了它就发疯，却是类似的事。”
《末日》和《地狱空了，所有恶魔都在这儿》里还包括了NAPALM DEATH 的Shane Embury、MAYHEM的Attila Csihar、EXPLODER的Dirty Von Donovan以及CIRCLE OF DEAD CHILDREN（死孩子之圈）的Joe Horvath的友情出演，让专辑有了更现场的和更碾核的感觉。提到他们对专辑的贡献，V.I.T.R.I.O.L.说：“不，我不会说我们请来的人们真的改变了音乐本身的方向——音乐的创作和以往一样，只是在其后可能有邀请来的音乐家有所贡献。但是耶，对于我们来说能让那些家伙参与进来很让人吃惊，他们是些很特别而且才华横溢的人，我们也是他们长期以来的乐迷。所以对于我们个人来说，与他们合作是一种荣誉。Shane在整张专辑中演奏贝司。我们认识他很多年了，毕竟我们来自同一个地方。从几年前他听到我们一首歌曲后，他就进入了我们的音乐并且喜欢上了它。因此他很热切地参与进又一支乐团之中，他还在我们的现场队形等等中演奏。所以问他是否愿意在专辑中演奏是个很明显的决定。这对我们和乐迷而言都很棒。Attila在专辑中最后一首歌里唱了几段，这似乎非常合适，因为那首歌曲相当不寻常，实验风格的曲目配上Attila那个相当不寻常的实验风格的家伙。再一次，我们是铁杆乐迷，尤其是他在《撒旦主人的秘密仪式》里的工作，所以对我们个人来说让他参与进来很棒。我们还希望其他一些特邀音乐家的贡献被包含在其中（主要是G.G.F.H.的Ghost），但是这次没能来。希望下次吧……”
2009年6月底，ANAAL NATHRAKH将发表第五张专辑《在黑寡妇星座中》（In the Constellation of the Black Widow），这是又一次令人着迷的进化。最后，V.I.T.R.I.O.L.致以感谢，“以一种相对的字眼说来有点可悲”的方式结束这次交流的同时希望它能成为一次有趣的阅读：“我没有什么启发性的话加上了。有时世界把你操了，而你能做的只有昂着你的头，不去屈服。有时你坚持前进仅仅是为了出气。”
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