New Generac and Power Pole

Kevin Eckstrand <playsthefool@hotmail.com>

Wed, Aug 7, 2024, 5:18 PM

to Tracy, me, Marc, Kellen, Sam, Dale, Kellen, Erik, Lauren, Elizabeth, Caleb, Arson, Camp, Douglas, Lynne

Hi all,

[Sorry, TLDR warning]

Devin and I were texting last night, discussing this upcoming generator procurement/install & panel work. Specifically how best to balance getting everyone's input and hopefully consensus, but without necessitating meetings with little new information.

The plan:

• Please respond on this email chain if you have any opinion or insight! (including this plan!)  Or questions for the group or the electrician.   I can summarize later.  @Kellen, @Dale, @Erik everyone etc  your insights are always valuable 

  1. If folks would *prefer* a meeting prior to the visit, I can arrange that for this evening or tomorrow during the day - same thing, please respond

• I'll set up a virtual meeting for tomorrow @ 5pm. Devin or Marc or ?? can connect from camp live, we can all listen in to discussion with the electrician & ask questions. Far from perfect, but far from nothing. Who from staff could attend?

• I'll set up a meeting for this group this weekend or next week to discuss the new info and how we want to move forward.

Summary as of  Aug 7 2024

Electrical contractors:

• Erik from AET, supplied quotes for generator & panel work

• Cole from Croghan Electric, default electrician

Quotes from AET:

Estimate 1043

July 25 2024

Generac 26Kw Generator, 200 Amp Full Load Transfer Switch, Cold Weather Kit, Battery

$12,380

Labor to Install Generator and Transfer Switch

Materials: PT Lumber, 200 Amp Wire, Taps, Generator Wire, Lags, Liquid Tight Conduit and Fittings, 2" Romex Connectors

Excavator To Set Generator

Estimate 1044

Aug 1 2024

Labor to Upgrade Overhead Service From 200 Amps to 320 Amps, Install New Pole, Install All New Equipment, Reroute Existing Circuits to New Panel Board, Install 50 Amp EV Outlet

$14,248

Materials: Pole, PT Lumber, 320 Amp Meter, 2 200 Amp Mainbreaker Boxes, Trough, Hand Hole, PVC Conduit and Fittings, Breakers, Service Wire, Taps, Lags, Screws, 

Excavator, Boom Lift

Inspection

Estimate 1045

Aug 1 2024

Generac 48KW Automatic Generator, Transfer Switch, Battery

$29,662

Labor to Install Generator Pad, Generator and Transfer Switch

Materials: Concrete, Concrete Forms, Wire Mesh, PVC Conduit and Fittings, Service Wire, Communication Wire.

Equipment to Set Generator

New-ish findings:

• Amperage test for Gilman loading was ~120-130A, both AET and Croghan same results; wire to Gilman is rate for 200A

• SWAG amount for entrance way pole set is ~ $2K

• Feeds to Gilman look unbalanced, 100A vs 50A; Cole @ Croghan can rebalance, or we (Marc) can

• Cole @ Croghan can also investigate what in Gilman is drawing 120A

• 26kW generator may not be enough for full load switching

• Concern that camp transformer may be overloaded

Questions:

• Has anyone called National Grid for information on current loading or service upgrade?

• Can we get better pics or sight on the transformer to try and access what the service is?

My $0.02

• Seems to me if we're ultimately OK staying with 200A service, then we're OK with the 26kW generator, right? Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this generator rating is higher than the current pole transformer.

• Service upgrade: I was initially hesitant about upgrading the service, I truly was expecting a exorbitant price tag. According to the quote 1044, this doesn't seem to be the case.

  • My gut says moving to 320A (or 400A?) is a good future-proofing move no matter what - we have the electrical system "open" now, and we could better protect the new panel from the elements.

  • The catch is it costs more $$ than we'd originally allocated for ourselves, my gut says we can overcome that if we can sell ourselves on it.

  • What do others think? Worth it? Waste of $$ given it's been fine so far and is just metal and breakers?

  • Are there any hidden costs here? I can't shake the feeling that after the equipment install the balance of the service upgrade isn't 'free'

  • Can we put in the panel etc and then consider ourselves 'ready' for the service upgrade whenever it then happens?

• Big vs small generator: My gut here says 48kW generator is overkill given it's an emergency system

  • If 26kW -> 48kW had been a couple thousand $ it would be no brainer IMO given it would be simpler for sure to switch everything over regardless of service size... But it isn't

  • If we upgrade the service than we'd need a multi-circuit transfer switch for 26kW generator which I guess would be an extra expense?

    • Ah, I see, maybe not, thanks @Tracy for the diagram just now

  • Maybe oversize the pad for a future larger (or second) generator ?

  • Thoughts anyone?

• Any thoughts on exact placement of the generator?

  • Not sure if a cutaway into the road wall would help, kinda far from the existing panel but it might hide it better

  • E.g.     

Thanks everyone. Shout out to Devin for championing this, and Marc & Kellen for the great work (done & upcoming), Tracy for the research, thank you so much.

Kevin

613.857.1337