Concept:

Oneonta and Schyler Lake needed more head room so we asked Pete Howlett to lower the floors.  Young adult group excavated under the rooms and Pete lowered the floors AND the porch.  He then made the rooms beautiful as only he could do.  You can see the step down from the Floral Park room.  We had raised the ceiling in Floral Park years ago.

Schyler Lake after renovation 2017

Oneonta During Renovation 2017

Devin Hollands <devinhollands@gmail.com>Aug 24, 2016, 

to Camp, Lauren, Elizabeth

Lauren, while at camp someone asked me to think about a what next project..

  I toured with Pete:  Overlook upstairs(bath and hallway)   and Sweet downstairs  as two areas that need his attention.

  I zeroed in on Lower Sweet - Oneonta and Schyler Lake  due to the Low ceiling height and lack of bathroom for Floral and Oneonta.

issues are;  there are many other items that Pete needs to address, health department needs notification, permit...   

MY THOUGHTS:

   the lack of ceiling height is a real issue to due smoke and bunk beds.. the ceilings are so low most kids could  not even sit up in an Oneonta Bunks..

    ONE other issue  is IF WE MAKE changes  would the health department make us BRING THE room to CODE as far as Space PER camper?  do not think we meet floor space requirement.

 - Dan or Kris should try to talk to health department NOW about this and see what they require or what input...    Making remodeling changes may not trigger anything..  

...............................................................................................

I think we should push forward and start lower sweet ASAP as it really is a bad situation and the bathroom being shared has always been a nightmare for families and for 16 campers living there.

My suggestion:

1) Health Department call NOW play it a bit low .. updating cabin, insulating electrical, bath remodel.

2) Send letter to APA  stating above remodeling plans..  (they will say no APA permit needed)  I can do this part - please tell me to though if wanted.   (the APA letter is needed if we need to get the local permit..  (or could be needed so better to cover that base NOW)

I always suggest starting anything in the FALL...   so that issues can be thought about and worked through during he WINTER..   the SPRING is the rush to put it all back together....  Time to finds all issues is NOW.

ALSO   PETE is ON BOARD to do this project.   If we loose Pete  we will not find anyone willing to NO QUESTIONS ASKED  jump in there and guarantee us ready cabins for Barton/Channing.

  Pete wants to cut up floors and find any rotted areas,   

          Remove dirt, Pour new footers and cement walls as needed to old back hill

              Rewire electric,  Insulate

     Concept is to go DOWN with Oneonta and Schyler Lake   AT LEAST 12"  but 14" better..

 We would leave Floral park and bathroom floor Alone..  so from bathroom you step DOWN 7" step then 7" more into Floral park.

                        Pete rebuilds floor framing and makes new floor, walls, lights, ceiling

For Bathroom:   Easiest solution is to Split the existing bathroom    wall going basically where the toilet sits now...  Floral park door is pushed a little over.  (smaller bed placed there.

  Floral has toilet sink   and Oneonta has toilet sink..  Fire access door stays as is.

OTHER option is using the space Behind Oneonta wall..   Old rock chimney is there and would be bit of work to remove...  IF health department demands more floor space it could be gained by removing the chimney and using space that could be clawed out of the hill back there...

...............................................................................................................................

ANOTHER idea  would be to EXTEND THE cabins ONTO THE porch..  The porch needs to be rebuilt anyway due to lowered floors..  We could Go OUT  to gain floor space that would appease the health department...   Porch is not used for anything other then drying wet towels on chairs...

photos are of room Oneonta  and UNDER Oneonta.. --

Devin Hollands 

 Lauren, Bev

Hi All-The only issue I can see the Health Department having is adding a bathroom.

Why would we not take down the wall between Schuyler Lake and Oneonta and make that one big room, renovating the bathroom off of Schuyler and leaving the other bathroom for Floral Park?

  Dan

to Camp, Dan, me  March 2017, 8:58 AM

I spoke to Pete yesterday. He is going to try and get in and measure everything in Sweet. I still need to speak with Kris and Elizabeth about the idea of taking down the wall and making Skylar Lake and Oneonta one room.

Pete is also going to ask the roof contractor what it would cost to do the Sweet Roof at the same time as Gilman.

If we are going to start putting up lightning rods we will need your help Devin in ordering the supplies we needed to Camp,

 Dan,

March, 2017, 9:03 AM

to Dan, me, Camp

Hi Dan,

Would we have to go back to the board for $$ for the Sweet roof?

 Regards, 

Dan Robertson 

Mid Atlantic Regional Sales Manager

DL Manufacturing

Make one Large room or leave as two?

March 3, 2017, 12:07 PM   to Lauren, Elizabeth, Devin

I thought I'd chime in about the ceiling height and health department standards.

The ceilings in Oneonta are low but legal. Schuyler lake is NOT legal as it stands now.

I would be opposed to making Schuyler Lake and Oneonta one room because it would only ad 3 camper spots and would eliminate a unique space we currently use all summer for staff. We don't have many single family or single staff spaces.|

Devin, go ahead and reach out to the APA and get that taken care of and I will reach out to the health department. I fully anticipate they will tell us, "no problem" since we are only updating a space and not making facility changes and there will be no summer construction.

Should Elizabeth and I plan to be without Sweet for the entire Spring season? When Eliz and I talked we realized that with the electrical and plumbing being updated we would likely not have upper sweet as well which definitely changes our off-season. Not insurmountable, but good to know these things now so we can plan accordingly.

-Kris

to Dan, Kris, Lauren, Elizabeth

Looking at Oneonta photos - waiting for input from folks..  notice a few things....

We can Leave porch the way it is and have STEP down INTO Oneonta at door way..  have oversized landing step so it is not dangerous.   landing would wrap to catch the door to Schuyler also...

so then look at back of room that old closet door goes to the new Perry bathroom area.. so that is dead.  but there is room to the RIGHT of that old closet to enter the area Behind the room ..  but right there is the rock chimney for the old large fireplace system that was upstairs.

  I am think it would be too much maybe to tackle all that in the Spring...   unless we hired a few more workers..We could do Phase in Spring  and leave bathroom access as is for summer....     then in summer or fall work on the area behind wall  and install bathroom in fall ....

DOING it in small phases might help avoid requirement for permits??  

Can we say for sure if we are NOT going to use Schuyler Lake room  or we are still considering it?

dh

Camp Unirondack <director@unirondack.org>Mar 8, 2017, 2:11 PM

to me, Dan, Lauren, Elizabeth

When you ask whether we are for sure using the Schuyler Lake room I don't know what you mean but Elizabeth and I are both opposed to the idea of combining Schuyler Lake and Oneonta.

I do like the idea of phasing it out. I also think that there is enough dead space to make a bathroom even without removing the old chimney but maybe I'm wrong about that.

-Kris

Devin Hollands <devinhollands@gmail.com> Mar 8, 2017, 3:01 PM to Camp, Dan, Lauren, Elizabeth

Trying to get determination about using or not using Sch. with Oneonta.   Sounds like you need Sch. for staff.  Dan was proposing combing with Oneonta - which I like but - if you need it for senior staff then that is an issue.

The thing with the Chimney is that the way the beds are NOW the little door space we have to the left of the bunk and to the right of the old closet door..  leads right into the Chimney ..    on other side of the chimney is the drawers in Perry.

dh

Keeping the Adirondack Look

to:Devin Hollands <devinhollands@gmail.com> Mar 8, 2017, 3:01 PM to Camp, Dan, Lauren, Eliz

to me, Dan, Lauren, Elizabeth

Hey Devin,

Yeah I didn't think about the doorway.

How much updating will the cabin get? I guess what I'm asking is, when we lower the floor, what is the change in aesthetic on both the inside and outside of the cabin? I want to make sure that we aren't creating more space that look and feel like Anderson. Sweet is a very classic looking cabin, especially on the outside. I want to make sure that is maintained even if it means incurring a higher cost.

-Kris

Response from Devin:

OUTSIDE would not change at all.

Inside Oneonta, it would just be Pete doing his thing..  Guess it would look like Perry - whatever he did there..  

  other than better lights (to be figured out on-site)  you might not notice any change..

Except a Step then down onto the floor..  from Floral Park  and from Porch..  

so behind the scenes, new wiring, fire proofing of any holes between cabins,  lower floors, new walls, ceiling, lights outlets, flooring...  extra bath in floral park or in basement area...  or bath stays the same this season. 

OR other side of coin..... you do nothing now and figure it out for the Fall  which is always a better time to take things apart..  then you have all winter to dream on it and get set for spring.

    We dragged our feet last fall as there was so much other stuff and issues up in the air so we never gave any green light for Pete to dig in....     or $$ maybe not approved who knows.

dh

Final word on combined Oneonta and Schyler Lake - Elizabeth Basher

March 8, 2017

I am curious why you would be opposed to joining the two rooms. Schuyler Lake is often dead space from a camper hpusing perspective. If we join the two rooms we have additonal camper housing.

  Dan Gottfried

Response from Elizabeth:

I'm still looking through this thread, but the reason we are opposed to combining the two rooms into one is for family, adult and leasing seasons especially. What little we would gain in camper beds during summer session is far outweighed by losing a cabin in a the off seasons (and family camp) when we have families all wanting their own spaces. That's when small cabins come in handy. 

I'm in favor of renovating them as two separate rooms.