The 1 st Mumbles Scouts 1944 to 1952 

Photo: Mumbles Cubs, 1953

The 1st Mumbles Scouts  1944 to 1952
Researched  by Derek Robinson and colleagues 

The 1st Mumbles Scouts 1944 to 1952

In our time 1st Mumbles was thriving with a reliable ‘hard core’ of lads who would carry through into the 1950s. Numbers remained good and morale high with lots of activities, at either troop or patrol level, in and around the Mumbles and Gower. Perhaps more to the point we thoroughly enjoyed our scouting days and, looking back, realise how much we gained from them.

Just as it does now, the troop met on a Friday night in the large corrugated iron roofed wooden shed in a lane just off upper Queen’s Rd.  We shared the Scout shed with 3rd Mumbles but they met on a different night and we rarely met or spoke as scouts.  They were a Sea Scout troop (‘Wet Bobs’), you see, and we were land scouts (‘Brown Jobs’).   

The Peewit (Green and White flashes) and Seagull (Blue and Red) patrols were consistently strong (with 6-8 members), Swifts (Navy Blue) somewhat less so, and Hawks (Pink) only lasted a short time.  Seagulls and Peewits  also met on other nights and at weekends – Peewits in the old summerhouse in the garden of Martyn Thomas’ home in Marytwill Lane, Newton; and Seagulls in the garage of Colin Bevan’s home in Brooklands Gardens, Norton which Colin’s father had adapted and painted in the patrol’s colours for the purpose.

Senior Scouts, for 15–18-year-olds, the predecessors of Venturers, began in September 1948.  We were distinguished by wearing maroon epaulettes.  We called our patrol Chindits, after Orde Wingate’s behind the lines SAS-type unit in the 14th Army in Burma during the War.

Leadership

Early in 1944 the Scout Master (SM), ‘Skip’ we called him, was Len Evans who ran The Bon Bon shop in Newton Road.  When he left (in 1946) members of the Rover Crew filled the gap.  They were an enthusiastic bunch, full of ideas and energy, and formed an excellent leadership team.

This stop-gap arrangement became fairly permanent.  John (‘‘Chops’’) Williams was nominally in charge ably assisted by Paul (Polly) Le Bars, Ron Williams, Brian (Duckie) Tucker, and Reg Hopkins.  When ‘‘Chops’’ moved away from Mumbles (around 1950) Ron Williams took over the SM role.  Then, when Ron was called to his National Service, first Brian (Ben) Evans and later Ken Barrington became SM.

Scouts of our generation who took on Assistant Scout Master (ASM) roles in the early 1950s included Martyn Thomas, Ian Peter, Jeff Williams, and Burnie Davies.  Various District Commissioners and Group Leaders also contributed mightily behind the scenes including Ted Presdee, John Aeron-Thomas, and Les Morris.

Gear

Because of clothes rationing, uniforms were virtually unobtainable during the war and the Scout Shop (then in Page Street) was reduced to selling badges and booklets.  We sewed our badges etc on ‘suitable’ shirts.  The Scout Shop didn’t get back to normal service until around 1946-47 when it moved to Bryn Road.

Likewise, new equipment was not available for purchase and we made do with gear the troop had in store from pre-War days. including a marquee and several ridge tents. One ridge tent in particular, which we called ‘Niger’ (that being the model), was in continual use through the 1940s and 50s.

After the War allegedly ‘war-surplus’ goods were a boon for scouts.  Millets were the main outlets and there we bought frame rucksacks, sleeping bags, ponchos (which combined the functions of raincape and 6’x3’ groundsheet), boots and other reputedly ex-Army gear.  The troop also bought an ex-US Army tent for leaders which we dubbed ‘The Yank’.

At patrol camp level and below we used rectangular army-style mess-tins for all purposes – they were our saucepans, kettles, plates.  When larger numbers were involved we used traditional ‘billies’.

Raw materials of all kinds were in short supply during and immediately after the War.  There was a ready market for such things as old 78 rpm records, bottles, paper.  Using the trek cart, we did quite a lot of collecting for troop funds usually on Saturday mornings and held fairly regular Jumble Sales with our hard-gotten gains.

The troop’s trek cart was very serviceable.  It had a shallow flat deck, with removable sides and large iron-shod wheels, and was pulled by a pair of scouts, one each side of a single bar, while others pulled forward or hauled back using side ropes.  None of our parents had cars or other means to transport us to camps and so we would pile tents, food, and equipment for a patrol of 6 lads for a weekend on the trek cart and pull it by hand to the chosen site somewhere in the Gower.

It had the advantage that it could be broken down to its constituent parts (like the field guns at the Royal Tournament), taken across a river by ropeway, and re-assembled on the other side.  We often practiced this manoeuvre which was also of practical use in that we could readily take the trek cart by rail or coach to distant camps and use it there.

Regular Meetings

Our leaders worked hard to maintain a reliable pattern of activities.  Weekly meetings rarely ceased and we took pride in maintaining such un-teenage boy traits as order and discipline, cleanliness and smartness.  Meanwhile leaders kept interest up by maintaining a reasonable balance between work and play, learning and relaxation.  

They encouraged progress through the various Scouting advancement programmes including badge-work and, unwittingly, three of our members made local history.  When King George VI died in February 1952 Alan James and Peter Morris became the troop’s last King’s Scouts and shortly afterwards Burnie Davies became its first Queen’s Scout.

We played some fairly rough games in the shed, ‘British Bulldogs’, and ‘Strong Horses/Weak Donkeys’ were particular favourites. We also held mock campfires from time to time. The land on the seaward side of Overland Road had yet to be developed and on troop nights in summer months we would play ‘wide games’ on Rotherslade cliffs where the bracken and other vegetation provided excellent cover for hides, stalking, mock ambushes and the like.  One way and another, as Mike Timothy says, ‘The evenings always shot by’.

Derek (Duke) Robinson and Alan (Jamo) James recall, ‘A favourite tradition for the Norton lads was to buy a 6d packet of chips at Johnny's in Chapel St afterwards.  The special sensation of trudging home past the castle walls and ‘across the Limekilns’ on dark and frosty nights with scalding hot chips in mouth and steam rising from our packets remains fresh with us 65 years later.’

Out and About

We undertook fairly frequent patrol camps.  Parc le Breos (Parkmill) was a popular venue.  To get there a patrol of six would drag the fully laden trek cart up Newton Hill; through the narrow lanes to Murton; and ease it down Manselfield, making sure it didn’t run away on us. Once below Bishopston church we would let the cart go so as to develop enough momentum to carry us as far as possible up Barlands Hill.   At times the cart was moving as fast as our legs would carry us and maintaining control became problematic.

Next came the long up-hill drag to Kittle hamlet and thence through the lane past Pennard Church and Kilvrough manor and down the narrow winding, wall-lined, main road to Parkmill.  The risks were significant, and few parents or leaders would dream of allowing such a journey nowadays.  But we did many such trips, unsupervised, and never gave a thought to the dangers. 

Other patrol camps were held at Summerlands, Newton, in the Caswell and Bishopston valleys, at Pwll Du, and at Ilston. Martyn Thomas, Burnie Davies, and Ian Peter were regular patrol camp leaders.

Our camping sites had no facilities - latrines, fireplaces etc - other than those we made for ourselves. At the end of each camp the site had to be left exactly as we found it. Most of our cooking was by wood fire – we had neither gas nor even primus stoves.  But we did have small paraffin wax stovelets designed for field use by troops in the war.  For the most part we took canned food which really only needed heating up but of course there was always water to be boiled.

To celebrate Victory in Europe (VE) Day on 7 May 1945 a chain of beacons was placed on vantage points nationwide and each was lit when it saw its predecessor ablaze. 1st Mumbles Rover Crew was involved in building the beacon placed on Mumbles Head and fired it when the Dunkery Beacon in Somerset became visible.  1st Mumbles lit a similar beacon on the same spot in 1953 to help celebrate the Queen’s Coronation.

On 29th April 1947, 1st Mumbles formed part of the cortege for the funeral of the lifeboatmen lost when attempting the rescue of crew from the SS Samtampa.  We marched along Mumbles Road and up Newton Road as far as the cemetery gates.   That year too, seven of us carried out a weeklong “Round Gower’ tramp.  It was an ambitious undertaking but very successful.  And as a matter of course we took part in the annual Remembrance Day parades.

In the late 1940s 1st Mumbles struck up an association with the Coastguards.  This took two main forms:  We were rostered to support duty coastguards at the Bracelet Bay station – in truth we provided company for the coastguards who were on single man duty at the time. We learned a lot in the process.

We also did some training with the LSA (Land to Sea Apparatus) team.  Mostly they practiced firing a line from shore to a vessel in distress and then winching a mock casualty ashore in a Breeches Buoy.  A favourite practice site was Oxwich Bay and we also held occasional exercises with the lifeboat crew.

Alan James (Jamo) recalls one practice near the Mumbles pier:  ‘On 23rd April 1950 I was the mock casualty for a ship to shore rescue by breeches buoy.  It started at the lifeboat station, and I will never forget the adrenalin rush as the lifeboat went down the slipway (a rare experience); shooting a line to the Mumbles pier; instructions to the lifeboat man on the pier given through a loud hailer on how to anchor the end; and then being hoist into a breeches buoy for transfer from lifeboat to pier. As there is not much freeboard on the lifeboat I was heavily dunked before becoming airborne, and the water was cold.’   

‘Burnie’ Davies has added, ‘on the journey from lifeboat to pier I remember they covered ‘Jamo’ in grease in an attempt to keep him warm.  Then he was dragged towards the pier in the water and pulled vertically up to the pier like a hooked fish. I’m glad it was him not me.’

One unusual expedition was organized by West Glamorgan scouts in 1950.  As part of a larger group and under the leadership of Martyn Thomas, we spent most of one weekend exploring a cwm near Crynant in the Neath Valley.  There had been problems in the mine workings underground and we were seeking evidence of surface subsidence. Where we thought we’d found signs we were to mark the position on a large scale ordinance survey map. Our hunt was inconclusive but it was a good exercise.

In the late 1940s the Scouting Association introduced the ‘Bob-a-Job’ week. It was mostly small-scale, mowing lawns etc. but we tackled larger projects occasionally. Around 1950 to raise funds to support those going to the World Jamboree, 1st Mumbles contracted to clear 2 acres of virgin land – mostly bracken and brambles – adjacent to Ailsa Craig House in the lane from Caswell Bay to Murton.  We were under strict instructions not to use fire.  We laboured for three weeks and accumulated a great amount of cut vegetation.   But in the following week some helpful soul set fire to the lot!!  As Robbie Burns wrote, ‘The best laid plans o’ mice and men gang aft aglay’.

1st Mumbles also got involved with and tried to help others.  For example, a new troop had been established in Morriston and in June 1948 Martyn Thomas led a small group which helped them set up and run a weekend camp at Summerlands, Caswell using 1st Mumbles equipment.

Similarly, in 1949, the troop supported a four weekend Wood Badge course run by the West Glamorgan Scouting Association to train leaders of Cub Packs (now called Beavers).

Post-war we did quite a bit of hitch-hiking (in pairs) and some even got as far as Scotland and the World Rover Moot in Switzerland.  Hitching had become an acceptable practice during petrol rationing and many drivers still responded readily in peace-time.  But it was frowned by National Scouting’s head office and eventually officially prohibited.

Annual Camps

For obvious reasons annual Troop camps were not very practicable during the War years. Then, in 1946 1st Mumbles recommenced the pattern with a camp at Summerlands, Caswell (a home ground, so to speak).

The 1947 annual camp was at Manordeilo some 5 miles up the Towy Valley from Llandeilo.  We travelled by LMS train from Victoria station, Swansea to Llandeilo and then changed to another train which we had arranged to stop at Manordeilo Halt (not a proper station and seemingly in the middle of nowhere).  From there we ferried our gear about a mile by trek cart to Glanrhyd Isaf farm where we camped.

The 1948 annual camp was held in August on a private estate at Glangrwynyg near Crickhowell in the Usk valley.  Our campsite was in a well-wooded, secluded and wholly charming little tributary valley with both trout and salmon in the nearby stream (not that they were 'available' to us).  The whole set-up was just about perfect. We did everything, including cooking, on a patrol basis and ‘Chops’ Williams ran a continual competition throughout the camp and even provided a winner’s trophy.

Traditionally, we had a massive campfire on the last night of every annual camp.  Everyone was expected to join in, the more experienced folk supplied solo items and there were also some hardy perennials - traditional items - such as Ron Williams’ rendering of "Abdul Abulbul Amir".

In the first week of August 1950 1st Mumbles went by Campbell's paddle steamer from the Mumbles pier to Ilfracombe and then by bus to our annual camp site just outside Appledore.   

The camp was enjoyable though the weather was iffy.  One event lives on in memory: A small group of Rovers and Senior Scouts ventured out to a local pub.  There, a group of ancient worthies was playing cribbage in the inglenook.  They looked as if they had been there since the pub was built and would continue indefinitely.  

Returning from a visit to the toilet one of them found that someone had drunk his glass of cider.  He glared round the table and declared emphatically, in broadest North Devon burr, "Thur be three koinds av rabin:  Rabin 'ood:  Rabin Redbreast:  And thee, tha' rabin' barstard!"

The 1951 camp was at Laugharne (home of Dylan Thomas); and that in 1953 at Kentchurch, near Pontrilas, Herefordshire.  In 1954 the troop was back at Manordeilo (with Ron Williams and Burnie Davies in charge) and in 1955 1st and 3rd Mumbles shared their annual camp at Newbridge-onWye, Radnor.

Presdee Trophy

This was a camping competition over one weekend each year between a representative patrol from each of 1st Mumbles, 3rd Mumbles and 6th Mumbles.  It was judged by a District leader using a set of criteria including ‘Layout of Camp’ containing seven areas to be tested, ‘General Conduct of Camp’ with six areas and Scouting Activities (signalling, estimation, first aid, etc) . 

Each area had a figure of what it was worth e.g.  fire, woodpile etc. (5), Latrine (10),  Organisation (20), First Aid (10), etc.  Practice was also considered such as efficiency in preparing meals; storage of food; how well the patrol tent was pitched including whether consideration was given to slackening guy ropes at nighttime; first aid kit and the ability to use it for such events as fractured limbs; and cleanliness and smartness of uniforms. 

The report on the 1947 competition describes the approach: 1st Mumbles, won getting 148 points out of 200. They lost points for not pitching the tent by locking doors & pegging corners first but full marks for Scout Spirit (“Grand!. It was a pleasure to camp in their company”).  But they lost points through not having a meat safe, and not keeping toilet paper in a container in case it rained.

The competition was taken very seriously, and we even held practice weekends. Alan James recalls: ‘I remember Polly (Le Bars) judging one practice camp and giving us heaps if we were not doing the right thing.’

Whenever 1st Mumbles held the trophy, it was kept in pride of place in the Rovers den.

Welsh National Jamboree

In July 1949 1st Mumbles attended the Welsh National Jamboree which was held in the grounds of Gwrych Castle at Abergele in North Wales.  It was an impressive site dominated by the castle (which was floodlit at night - a rarity in those days) and six gatehouses.  

We had illustrious company - Randolph Turpin was there training for his epic fight with Sugar Ray Robinson for the World Middleweight Championship.  The training ring was in the open and his sessions were conducted to the accompaniment of an electric organ which could be heard for miles.  The tune "I asked the Valley of Echoes if she loves me" was a favourite and even today is a reminder of that camp.

We, and the other West Glamorgan troops, were in a sub-camp with scouts from Radnor and Dorset.  It was a good Jamboree for making friends but not so hot on the formal programme.  Badge-swopping was the major activity.  We visited Rhyl, Colwyn Bay and Llandudno of course and sampled their seaside resort attractions but were less than impressed with Abergele town.

Of interest to train buffs may be the fact that it took from 10 am to 5 pm for our special train to travel from Abergele to Swansea via the LMS's Mid-Wales route.

The next Welsh Jamboree was held at Picton Castle, Haverfordwest in 1952.  1st Mumbles was again represented.

(Burnie Davies was one of its leaders) but most of the 1944-51 group had moved on. Peter (Morri) Morris (1st Mumbles) and Peter Jones (3rd Mumbles) were among the King’ Scouts presented to the then Chief Scout, Lord Rowallan.

The camp produced a good example of how scouts learned by experience: At one point Burnie shouted to Harold Grenfell,   "It’s starting to rain - put a dixie full of water on the fire!”  Harold promptly leapt into action, filled the dixie with water, and poured it on the fire!

World Jamboree

In 1951 four members of 1st Mumbles formed half of the West Wales patrol at the World Jamboree held in Bad Ischl, Austria – an indicator of how keen the troop was in that period. 

Bonding endures

Through six or seven years close association, through thick and thin, a group of ex 1st Mubles scouts developed a bond which endures sixty years on. We meet very rarely but when we do it’s as if we last met yesterday and we resume the former camaraderie as if there had been no interruption.

Through 1956-1960 - eight years after we split – we did a series of five tours of the Continent, two of them in a 1929 Austin 20 hearse which we converted into a 7 seater mini-bus we christened ‘Belladonna’.  We weren’t Rover scouts but it was more or less an unofficial 1st Mumbles Rover Crew - we even borrowed some 1st Mumbles gear (including the Niger tent) for several of our trips.

The Scouts

In our time 1st Mumbles drew lads from Thistleboon to Newton to West Cross. It’s no longer possible to list them all but they included:

Mumbles: Mike Timothy, Ken (Spat) Reeves, Finlay Hoppe, Roy and Ken Lloyd, Selwyn Lewis, Marcus Holt, Keith Davies, Neville (Lulu) Lewis, Hugh Porter, Linden Davies, Viv Peters, Malcolm Greenwood, and Michael Blewitt. 

Thistleboon:  Michel Le Bars, Reg Hopkins, Harold Grenfell, Peter Legg.

Norton: Alan (Jamo) and Bryan James, Derek (Duke) Robinson, Colin and Phillip Bevan, Ian Peter, Jex and Paul Henderson, Roy (Tich) Edwards, Garnet (Burnie) Davies, and Brian (Gaffer) Griffin.

West Cross: Colin Latham, Ian (Toffee) Palmer

Newton:  Martyn Thomas, Peter (Morri) and John Morris, Derek Topham, Alec (Yak) Yeldham, Billy Jones, Eric (Fritz) Rosser, Mike (Jenny) and Tony Reynolds, and Michael (Gulliver) Culverhouse.

Brynmill: David Fairs.

Additional personal notes

From 1944 onward I spent most weekends with my grandparents at Norton.  I was introduced to 1st Mumbles troop by next door neighbour Alan James.  They met on a Friday night which was mighty convenient for me.  

1948 Troop Camp at Crickhowell

We (Martin Thomas, Jex Henderson, Ron Williams ......) went with the advance party and set up the camp with a central marquee, store tent, and leader's tent (dubbed "The Yank" because it was US Army war surplus) and patrol tents for Peewits (mine), and Seagulls.  

The outstanding personality (for all the wrong reasons) was a lad called Colin Blewitt who distinguished himself by being the laziest guy there and also, among other things, poaching a trout, and being caught shoplifting in the Abergavenny branch of Woolworths.  But he capped all this by picking up and bringing to camp a girl from nearby Glangrwynyg village.  She was due home at 9.15 pm but at 11.30 pm our leaders, Butch and Ron, "discovered" she was still in camp.  So they took her home.  Her father wasn't prepared to listen to their explanation and gave the wholly innocent Ron a black eye!  Talk about rough justice!

I also had my first experience of lifesaving.  Phillip Bevan, Roy (Tich) Edwards, and Brian Stonyer, a guest from a Llandeilo troop, were swimming at the Abergavenny public baths.  Tich and I were on top of the long water chute when Phil yelled my name.  I looked down and saw Brian struggling in 7 feet of water.  As I noted at the time I did a Tarzan act to shoot down at top speed but before I could get to him an attendant had jumped in fully clothed and pulled him out.  That pulled us up short!

In the first week of August 1950, I hitchhiked from Pershore down to Appledore in North Devon and back to attend the annual camp of 1st Mumbles group.  Some things haven't changed - I noted (in a postcard home dated 1.8.50)  that near Bridgewater, Somerset I was caught up in a 6-mile-long traffic jam of holidaymakers heading westwards.

I was envious of the rest of the group who had travelled by Campbell’s paddle steamer.

 (Roy (Tich) Edwards) died relatively young – in his 40s

Notes from meeting with Larry Owen, 2009

Recalled Brian (Ducky) Tucker, Polly and Michel L Bars – Larry thought Michel a bully – he later became Commodore of the Sydney Yacht Club.

Haydn Edwards became a dentist – reading between the lines I suspect Dinah Edwards was a former girl friend of Larry’s

Mike Timothy became a barrister and later built up a chain of sports shops in Surrey.

Larry said he had a crush on Liz Bartlett (who didn’t?!)

Jim Presdee was coaching soccer in South Africa.  Mumbles Rangers was now the largest soccer club in Wales, with 18 teams.

Correspondence accumulated in association with writing 1st Mumbles essay above

Grafton Maggs wrote (2009):

  I was a member of 1st Mumbles Troop (under Skipper Bert Moore) 1934- 1939. At that time, we played second fiddle to Major Hyett's 3rd Mumbles Troop. This latter troop were most ably led by Troop Leader Bill Barrington and sported All Round Cords and King Scouts galore. Bill (who is knocking 90) and I, have lunch together at fairly regular intervals and I love to hear his stories about old heroes of mine, Tom Cartwright, John Roberts, Trevor Lewis, etc etc. So many of them fell in the early days of WW2. It was during my days as a scout that I learned that there was a social hierarchy in Mumbles-hence Mumbles village lads were confined to the Firsts and the Langland/Caswell lads made up the Thirds.  

I had commented back how lacking the published History of 1st Mumbles was in relation to my generation and Grafton responded:

 “Stuart Batcup tackled an enormous job in attempting a history of this magnitude and perhaps it would have been more comprehensive if it had been composed by a team with personal anecdotes from such people as your good self. Many of the 'thirties Firsts, who were still living at the time, had much to contribute.  The result would have been a substantial book giving a wonderful insight into the social background of Mumbles.”

July 10, 2012

Dear Derek,

   All Saints Church Magazine has been knocking out monthly editions for about 150 years. Main circulation is in the village but a large number go all over the world to Mumbles people in exile. It contains not only Church news but excellent contributions on secular matters from a variety of sources, none better than mine, of course. I cannot give you a purpose!

     My intended book is of limited interest being based on memories of a Mumbles long gone- my period of memory 1928 to present day. For the past twenty years or so, I have been writing stuff, some of it for the Parish Magazine and some for a few other outlets (nothing of worthy note). I am compiling a book based on these past writings. One chapter is based on my five years 1934 to 1939 in 1st Mumbles. Other chapters are spellbindingly dull being based on all those other things that made up the life of a lad in Mumbles from earliest schooldays, cubs, scouts, swimming etc. Home Guard 1940 to 1943, Army 1943 to 1947 (all those years of hell in Brecon). Going up, getting a degree, coming down. London life. Ephemeral encounters. Back to Mumbles. Last pre- Pressdee days.  I expect it to have a worldwide sale of about ten.

   My request is a simple one. Would you be kind enough to write an article on your memories of your times in the Mumbles Scouts? This would fill a gap and give readers another slant to wartime life in Mumbles. It would be of great interest. Also, it is quite something for us to have an article from a Mumbles lad living on the other side of the world in New Zealand. We should be very proud to have it. There comes a time when people have had enough from the dull locals such as myself - you will bring in a breath of fresh air!

     If you feel so inclined, please write it and email it to me and it will be forwarded, intact and unaltered to the Vicar. He will welcome it with open arms!       No hurry!

 Chops is in good shape, saw him in the village and we exchanged abuse.

 Hope you, and your loved ones, are well,   Grafton

July 10

Grafton will know John very well as in their youth they lived about 100 yds from each other. Grafton lived in the Victoria Pub in Gloucester Place and John live in Albert House at the top of Dunns Lane. Grafton was my dentist in Mumbles ( he knew my brother and sisters from school), and the last time I spoke to him was at the Royal College of Surgeons when Doris was receiving her Fellowship and Grafton was receiving some dental certificate. 

                                                       All the Best 

                                                                    Burnie

13 July   + three photos

Hi to you all,

Authentication of information to Duke can only really  be done if we all agree. You may be wondering where my information came from. Well, I've been carting it around the world for the last 65 years as the Adobe Acrobat attachments bear witness. Most normal people would have thrown such information out years ago! If you can add to the info, please do and if you don't agree with any of it please tell me. If it doesn't make sense tell me!

The other attachment concerns photos and membership which hopefully stir memories. Any names I have missed out on please let me know. The photos Martyn took during the Gower Tramp which included Martyn, Duke, Colin Bevan, Ian Peter, Titch Edwards and myself are good and if the negatives are still in the land of the living would be a plus.

Cheers,

 Alan

14 July

Starting off with some comments on info held & photos. I seem to have kept a fair bit, though not all, from those days way back in the first half of the last century – it was a long time ago wasn’t it. As I mentioned I have a number of logs of the various camps I went to (I must say I really enjoyed our scouting days) so I’m sure I can add a bit more. My logs also hold pictures, now not of the best, but for the ones I took I thought I may have the negs. and it would be interesting to use those to get better images. I think I did have a go at doing that a few years ago but forgotten how it turned out – I’ve done it with transparencies with good results but didn’t move to that medium until 28th March 1960 (I know the date well for I bought one of Peter West’s old 35mm cameras for Shirley’s & my wedding & honeymoon. On the wedding day Burnie used my camera (poor chap he also had Peter’s & his own to use!) so on the very first use of my camera I have a fine photo of you on the lawn of the Langland Court. Well back to my b&w negs I thought they may still be around and checked yesterday where I thought they were – found the very smart but antiquated neg folder (second hand)  - only to find it empty. I then had another thought & followed that up this morning, actually just before I’d seen your email, & lo and behold I’ve found a collection of negs. Haven’t been through them but it’s quite likely that some may be there or are they just a collection of the various girlfriends I used to have back in those days!.

Re names. Yes I’m sure I can add quite a few more – my logs have the names, often nick names, of people underneath them and whether I can remember the real names I don’t know. (who was Bigger?) I see from your list that Toffee’s surname was Palmer – I thought it could be but wasn’t sure. You asked who Spat was – he was Ken Reeves who came to the 1st’s quite late & became a projectionist at the Tivoli. He had a brother known as Korky – haven’t a clue of his Christian name. On additional names there were some before your time Jenny (Mike) Reynolds & later his brother Tony and Alec (Yak) Yeldhan whom I’ve mentioned to you already and then in your time there were, of course Michel Le Bars, Billie Jones, Peter Jones (ex Sea Scout) and didn’t Carl Harrison from Llanfair Gardens also a member? And then there were quite a few more I can probably recall.

I’m not sure when I can get around to doing it as I have three photo projects  I need to do (2 for Probus & 1 for the Garden Club( and they take, for me at least, quite a while. Anyway I will get around to it – likely to be bit by bit though so I can keep all my other little jobs ticking over – and probably I’ll quite enjoy doing a bit of nostalgia.. Maybe you’ll want to update Duke that I will be making some sort of contribution.

Martyn

15 July

• Like you I have the ’47 Gower tramp ones and I might even have the negs. but haven’t checked yet. 

• I also have the ’47 Troop camp group photo, but the quality is pretty poor and I guess yours probably is too. I do have the names under the photo, but some are the nick names – the Biggar I mentioned in the last email came from there. 

• Like wise on the ’48 Troop camp I have the group photo, reasonably large scale, with the names underneath. Both Spat & Korky are in that one. 

• I haven’t got the Appledore photo. 

• I’ve got a print from the Evening Post at High Street all returning from the Welsh Jamboree  - no names under it for there was quite a large crowd of us. I wonder if that was the Evening Post photo you had in mind? 

• My pics of the World Jamboree are very small & poor quality You asked about the names of the 1st Mumbles contingent In our patrol there were the four of us (you, Burnie, Morrie and myself), then there were the 2 lads from the Swansea troop (Peter Bakenhurst & Glynn Jordan),  there was Trevor Evans (I think that was his name) from Neath with the fourth being a Sea Scout from Barry whose name I can’t recall right now (we called him Bosun I believe).. The patrol was called the Bulldogs and if I remember correctly the patrol was representing  West Wales of which ¼ came from the 1st’s – not bad eh!. 

Martyn

17 July

Hi everyone

             If anyone wants John William's address it is 430 Mumbles Road Mumbles Swansea SA3 4BY, and his email is hugwsdad2@btinternet.com and Jim says he believes he is 86 years old. His house is about 1/2 way between Norton and Oystermouth. I see you found out who Spat was, he was also one of the Sea Scouts and he spent a lot of time in Rotherslade doing weight lifting and later I think he turned a bit religious as I can remember him walking around in a dark suit with a bible under his arm. 

                 All the best Burnie

Comments by Chops Williams

Dear Duke,

What a lovely surprise to hear from you after so many years, yes, over sixty. It took me back a bit doing some reminiscing about all those years ago when life seems so carefree for many, particularly the 1st Mumbles crowd. I thoroughly enjoyed my stint as S.M. , and missed  the fellowship of so many great lads when I moved away to London's bright lights to seek fame and  fortune. Both eluded me but it was a good move career wise. I retired 25 years ago and am now back in the land of my fathers and even better , in Mumbles for the past ten years.

I read with great interest the compilation about the 1st Mumbles and think that you and your fellow conspiritors did an excellent job. I would not dream of altering or adding to it. It's first class. Those camps at Glanrhyd Isaf, Appledore and near Crickhowell were great fun and good for many happy memories.

I see Grafton Maggs from time to time and when I next see him I will bring up the subject of what he did with the document you sent him !.

As for me I soldier on having celebrated my 88th birthday on the 13th December. Don't think I fancy a sleeping bag on a groundsheet any more. My idea of camping these days is  a four-star hotel at least!.

I had heard that you were in New Zealand and had prospered. I am very pleased for you as I always am when I hear of how many of the 1st Mumbles had made a success of their lives.

Should you know Martyn Thomas's e-mail address I should be glad of it. 

Again, wonderful to hear from you. My best wishes to you and yours

As ever,

John

John Williams

St Jude's,

430, Mumbles Road,

Mumbles , Swansea SA3 4BY

More: Mumbles Guides and Brownies >

More: The 1st Langland Brownies >

More: The 5th Mumbles Cubs >

More: Mumbles Scouts and Cubs >

More: The 1st Mumbles Scouts by Derek Robinson >

More: The 5th Mumbles Cubs >

More: Mumbles Guides and Brownies >

More: The 1st Langland Brownies >