2021 - American Legion Post 42 Issues with Neighbors

On June 24, 2021, at the 7th Ward meeting held at the Evanston Ecology Center, Andrew Lazar addressed the noise issue that has been plaguing the residents of the Sissila condominium, located at 1210-1222 Central Street.

The American Legion Post 42 recently started to host a multitude of loud events that negatively impacted the residential quality of life of the nearby residents.

The Sissila issue of noise/other disruptions dovetails with similar issues that plague residents near the U2 and the Golf Course.

Below see the July 12 City Council Public Comment by Yvi Russell, and further below, the emails re. Sissila issue.

The issue of noise and disruptions caused by the many events hosted at the VA Post 42 has been a big problem, especially for the residents of the Sissila apartments on Central Street, near the Canal. This issue dovetails with the issue of precedent we raised in various City meetings since 2019, re. NU two-year Pilot program. It seems to me that since Out of Space is allowed to host concerts, the VA post has ridden on their coat-tails, as a type of precedent, to host their own, and more frequent events. These events cause much negative impact on the quality of life of residents subjected to the noise until late at night.

In the email below Andy Lazar appraises Yvi Russell of the situation

Date: July 12, 2021

From: Andrew Lazar To: Yvi Russell

… We have been battling with the City and Legion 42 for several months now. Lots of emails to Eleanor and calls to police for late night drinking on their property and excessive noise.

The latest is that Alderperson Revelle has indicated that she is meeting with city staff to discuss all these complaints this week. She also tells us that Legion 42 management never informed the City of additional "patio events" which would include bands and such. This in addition to the already 17 concert events that the City Council had approved for that property. We find ourselves now having a commercial concert venue for a neighbor just 200 yards away.

Our hope is that, for now, the City will step in and end (or at least curtail) the patio events and review their liquor license. Our contention has always been that, since the Legion is zoned as a Park area, there should never have been given approval to sell alcohol there in the first place or hold these concert events for that matter. (Copy of letter from our attorney attached)

This is likely going to be the discussion moving forward. That and how to further limit these outdoor concerts in our residential neighborhood in the future.

Hoping you are well and looking forward to teaming up against this commercialization of the Central street corridor.

-Andy

Below: April 20, 2021 email between alderman Fiske and Mr. Lazar. Sound does travel far.

Date: Apr 20, 2021

From: Judy Fiske To: Andrew Lazar

Subject: Re: Canal Shores Music Events

Cc: Revelle, Hagerty, Braithwaite, Wynne, Wilson, Simmons, Suffredin, Rainey, Fleming

Dear Mr. Lazar,

Neighborhoods in the 1st Ward east of Post 42 are also affected by the noise level from musical events at Canal Shores. Last summer I had many complaints from residents as far away as Sherman Avenue, six blocks to the east, who reported that the noise levels caused them to retreat into their homes on nice summer evenings and close their doors and windows. My best guess is that the problem was caused by sound traveling and then bouncing off the larger multi-family buildings on Sherman and was amplified.

Regardless of the cause, it was an unwelcome intrusion, made worse because it occurred night after night. Ald. Revelle and I heard it ourselves, and I would equate it to a band showing up uninvited every evening to play outside your window. Once or twice may be okay, but more than that is a problem.

My understanding was that Canal Shores would take steps to prevent this from happening again if they chose to apply for a permit this year. I trust that Ald. Revelle is holding them to their word.

I know that doesn’t address all your concerns, but it would offer some relief to you and residents in my ward.

Best regards,

Judy Fiske 1st Ward Alderman City of Evanston, Illinois

** Below see the e-mail letter that the attorney representing the Sissila residents sent to the Mayor, Alderman Revelle and the City Manager.

Date: June 16, 2021

To: Mayor Daniel Biss, Alderman Revelle; Erika Storlie, City Manager

cc: Board of Directors of Sissila Condominium; Schermerhorn Property Management

Re: Sissila Condominium Association 1210-1222 Central Street, Evanston

Dear Mayor Biss, Alderperson Revelle and City Manager Storlie:

I represent the Sissila Condominium Association, located at 1210-1222 Central Street, Evanston and am writing to you regarding continuing issues with noise coming from the currently permitted and unmitigated use of the American Legion Post 42 VFW (“Post 42”) for loud parties and events, 7 nights per week, located immediately across the North Shore Canal from this property. The Sissila is comprised of 43 residential condominium units and is located immediately to the west of the North Shore Canal. Although the owners and Condominium Board have made repeated efforts to work with the City of Evanston and the operators of Post 42 to peacefully coexist, the residents at this property have reached their limit as to tolerating constant disturbances as described below.

The residents of Sissila are quite used to the bustling activity that tends to occur in this area of the City. Northwestern football games, the Evanston Fire Department, Evanston Hospital, and most recently the Out of Space concert series are events and entities that generate a certain amount of traffic and noise that the owners have become accustomed to over the years. Indeed, many of the owners embrace the idea of community based concerts taking place along the canal in the Summer months. People who move to this residentially zoned neighborhood are well aware of these sources of noise and activity.

However, the more recent use of the Post 42 for private events during the week, and extending into the evening is simply unacceptable. While Alderperson Revelle has kindly offered explanations of how noise can be transmitted and controlled from the VFW, the fact remains that the 43 households in the Sissila (and possible other nearby residential properties) have to endure loud music and noise every day of the week extending into the evening. It is not uncommon to have loud music and parties occurring up to 11 p.m. several nights per week. If this level of activity and noise were coming from the Sissila and disturbing the surrounding residential buildings, no doubt the City would have acted on this long ago. However, for some reason, the City appears hesitant to limit the VFW’s new use in order to protect the residents of this neighborhood.

Post 42 is zoned as part of an Open Space District according to the City’s website. This includes such spaces as parks, playgrounds, and forest preserves. This area does not appear to be commercial zoned and, as such, there should be no expectation of the neighboring residents having to endure typical commercial activity one might find in such locations. Yet, for unexplained reasons the City has permitted Post 42 to operate what is essentially a for-profit, entertainment/night club up to 7 nights per week, in the middle of a park, located adjacent to a residential neighborhood. No doubt, if a commercial enterprise were seeking to build a bar/entertainment venue in or adjacent to one of the City’s other neighborhood parks, with a liquor license and the ability to play music and host parties 7 days/nights per week, the Planning Commission and City Council would reject such a proposal.

The constant disturbances into the late evening during the week are taking a toll on the people who live at this property. To make matters worse, the Board believes the use of Post 42 during the week is negatively impacting the value of the units at this property, evidenced by a recent real estate showing that was cut short one weekday evening due to the amount of noise coming from a loud party at Post 42.

At times, the residents of the Sissila have been directed by City employees to contact the Evanston Police Department to address the noise. However, not only are the police apparently unable to effectively address noise coming from this location, but this appears to be a misuse of community resources. The issue of regular noise coming from a commercial enterprise located in the middle of an Evanston park is a matter for the City government to address, not the police.

While the residents of the Sissila are sympathetic to the struggles faced by Post 42 over the years, they are not willing to trade their own right to peacefully enjoy their homes to save this location. Again, these residents are not trying to shut down sporadic, weekend concerts in the park, or eliminate football games and other festivities. The owners who move to this area indeed embrace the community activities that take place in this neighborhood. What they object to is the unmitigated use of Post 42 for loud commercial purposes several days per week.

Accordingly, on behalf of the Sissila Condominium, we ask that the City take whatever steps are necessary to limit the use of Post 42 to what it was likely originally intended for: a local gathering place for members of that organization. If they desire to make use of the space for a limited number private events on weekends, with certain other mitigation measures in place, the Sissila would be willing to work out a compromise of this sort. But the continued constant misuse of this property, at the expense of the residents of this neighborhood will no longer be tolerated.

We sincerely appreciate your efforts, and look forward to hearing back from you as soon as possible on this timely issue.

Very truly yours,

Signature of attorney

Date: June 19, 2021

From: Revelle

Dear Canal Shores Neighbors,

I would like to invite you to a meeting with Post 42 Patio Manager Mike Hughes where you can share your experience with the Post 42 concerts — both the special event concerts approved by City Council and the patio events — and we can discuss ways to move forward that can address your concerns.

First Ward Councilmember Clare Kelly and one or two other interested neighbors will attend our meeting as well. If you know of other nearby residents who would be interested in joining this conversation, please encourage them to attend.

I propose that we meet this coming Wednesday, June 23, at 5:00pm on the Post 42 patio.

Please let me know whether you will be able to join us.

I hope to see you on Wednesday.

Eleanor

Date: June 20, 2021, at 12:48 PM

From: Andrew Lazar To: Revelle:

Hello Eleanor.

Thank you for facilitating this meeting as it was once again a particularly disruptive event last night.

Unfortunately, after some internal communication, the majority of us would not be able to attend on Wednesday due to work schedule and short notice.

We would propose to welcome all of you to our Sissilla front yard area at 6:30 pm on Wednesday if you are able.

If not, we can have this discussion at the Ward meeting Thursday.

Please let us know.

Andy

Date: Jun 21, 2021 10:18 AM

From: Revelle To: Andy

Good morning, Andy —

I will be pleased to meet with everyone on Wednesday at 6:30pm. I am still waiting to hear from Mike Hughes, but I do hope he will be joining us as well. I think it will be much more productive to have this focused discussion together on Wednesday.

Eleanor

Date: June 21, 2021, at 2:10 PM

From: Mike Hughes

Hi all,

Looking forward to meeting you all and hoping we can find an agreeable resolution for the neighborhood.

Would it be possible to move the start time to 7:00?

Thanks

Mike

Date: Jul 8, 2021, at 7:23 PM

From: Perry

I understand how this meeting was moved from Sunday to Monday, but missed out on the email conversation when it was bumped to Tuesday.

Rita & I are booked that night & unable to attend.

Perry

Date: Jul 8, 2021, at 9:00 PM

From: Revelle

July 11 is this Sunday, as originally planned. Mike has set up the meeting for 6pm. If that is too early, we can ask to push it back to 7:30.

Eleanor

Date: July 8, 2021 9:59 PM

From: Revelle

Correction: I meant 6:30 pm (not 7:30) —Sunday, July 11, as planned originally

When are you-all available? Will 6:00pm work?

Eleanor

Date: July 9, 2021 12:31 AM

From: Perry

Confirming: Rita and I are both available for in-person or Zoom Sunday evening, July 11th at 6:30 PM.

BTW, I'm saddened to see that Mike has invited yet more participants to this discussion. Is this becoming a popularity contest where the person who brings the most to the party wins? Mike has 11 friends and we only have 5, so our ability to make our point is shouted down?

There are two problems with this entire scenario that have not been addressed properly. Both involve the framing of the argument. Simply put, if you frame the argument before your opponent, you win. The Old Town School of Folk Music scored huge points and the first frame for the Post 42 when they set this phony standard of 75 decibels as a target for their property. And every measurement that Mike Hughes talks about is based on their framing. Here's what Google research yields: Passenger car at 65 mph at 25 ft (77 dB); freeway at 50 ft from pavement edge 10 a.m. (76 dB). Living room music (76 dB); radio or TV-audio, vacuum cleaner (70 dB).

Imagine that much noise in the back yard next to your house. Three or four nights a week. Week after week. Post 42 has totally blown away their permitted number of events by hosting private patio parties.

The second argument frame that they did was an attempt to "compromise" and therefore only annoy us half as much. While compromise should be the goal of most every negotiation, it is not the right goal here. We should not have to compromise. At all. I used the simple constitutional argument before that one mans right to swing his fist stops short of another mans nose. Another interpretation is that "your freedom ends where my nose begins". If the the previously stated constitutional principle were to be interpreted with a "compromise", then you would have a right to hit me in the nose, but maybe half as hard. That compromise ... still gets me hit in the nose. See the point? That's absurd and so is the need for the neighbors of Post 42 to compromise. Post 42 can make all the noise they want as loud as they want -- as long as it stays within their footprint. And doesn't touch us. That's our compromise.

Our rights as home-owners are being violated. Just as the residents of Ryan Field would have their rights violated if 75 decibel musical events were to be held there three or four nights a week. Week after week. If the City of Evanston would protect the residents living near Ryan Field, it's only fair and responsible that the City of Evanston would likewise protect the residents near Post 42. Regardless of whether we are outnumbered at the "rumble" this Sunday night by ten or a hundred.

Last, although I note at the beginning that Rita and I are confirming our intent to attend this discussion, we likely will turn around, leave & conclude it being a waste of time if Mike brings an army of supporters who love the music as-is. This is not an issue for a popular vote -- it is an issue if Post 42 has the right to impinge on our rights.

I truly feel if this matter were to go to court, we would win.

Thank you,

Perry Weinberg

Date: Jul 10, 2021 9:31 am

From: Andrew Lazar To: Mike Hughes

Cc: Revelle; and neighbors

Subject: Re: Meeting to discuss Post 42 Concerts

Good Morning Mike.

Hoping you enjoyed your 4th of July weekend as well.

Sadly, as most of our summer has gone thus far, we are unable to. This with the exception of two weekends ago when it rained continuously and concerts were apparently canceled or forced indoors.

Unfortunately, last night was no exception. The wailing coming from your patio was as bad as ever. The weekend before even worse.

And while we have no doubt that you are making adjustments, acoustic or other, to your sound system it had little or no effect on how much it disrupts our lives on this side of the canal.

Last night when we all hoped to enjoy some cool breezes and dry air after the long hot spell we were once again forced to shut our windows, turn up our TVs or run some kind of white noise to drown out our neighbor’s concerts. Police were called, once again, by several of our owners because of loud drunks well after midnight.

Simply put Mike, this is not working. And owners on this side of the canal are becoming increasingly aggravated and impatient

.

We do not want to, nor should we have to, spend our summer days bracing ourselves for what might come from our neighbors, shutting ourselves in, checking YOUR schedule to make plans, or studying weather reports and hope for rainy weekends, just to get peace in our own homes. Homes that we have lived in long before our neighbor decided to have a commercial concert venue and outdoor patio bar in his backyard.

After some internal discussion I believe it has become obvious that the Legion and its agenda is in complete contrast to ours and is, frankly, violating our rights as homeowners and Evanston residents.

To us this is not a matter of coming to some understanding of how much noise we are willing to take or how often which ends in a pleasant handshake.

It is a matter of your requirement by law to live within the footprint of your property without infringing upon our rights and the City’s responsibilities to enforce the laws that protect these rights.

Having said that, with appreciation of your warm invitation to join you on the Legion patio and to discuss this issue via zoom, I will respectfully decline both at this time.

I hope you understand that, to me, this is the equivalent of being invited to have dinner with my wife and her new boyfriend to discuss their future plans.

Moving forward, our Association will continue to discuss these disturbances with Alderperson Revelle, other City officials, and our council.

Thank you

Andy

Date: Jul 10, 2021, at 10:25 AM

From: Denise DeLuca To: Eleanor

Eleanor,

I would have to agree with Perry regarding the invitation of additional people to this meeting.

This is not a popularity contest as to who likes the concerts and drinking events, it's an efforts to gain back our homes just as you would protect any other neighborhood in your ward against noise, traffic and infringement on residential zoning.

Thank you,

Denise.

Date: July 10, 2021 12:12 PM

From: Eleanor Revelle

Denise and Everyone —

I am working on “un-inviting” Mike’s supporters from the zoom call tomorrow so we can focus on the originally agreed-upon purpose of the meeting, namely for you-all to provide additional feedback on the sound level of the concerts — the patio concerts in particular, since they are not included in Post 42’s special event permit. Mike indicates that he has made “sound adjustments” these last two weekends, but based on everyone’s emails and my own sound measurements, the “adjustments” have not made much difference.

We also need to discuss the issue of loud noise from the patio well after 10pm.

Please continue to plan on our meeting tomorrow.

Eleanor

Date: Jul 10, 2021, at 3:28 PM

From: Chriso

I think the fact that Mike Hughes would "suggest" we discuss this over zoom indicates he does not take our issues seriously. More so I think it cowardly that he would suggest his hiding behind a computer screen where it is much easier to deceive and ultimately avoid accountability.

I think Mike needs to look us in the eyes ... in person ... and either continue his lies and lip service or take responsibility.

I too decline his spinless offer and marvel at how the Legion continues to dig themselves into a hole!

Christopher Owens

From: Mike Hughes To: Chriso

Date: Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 12:15 PM

Subject: Re and neighbors

I apologize that I can’t meet with you all in person, but I am out of town.

In lieu of the zoom meeting we will continue to work with the Aldermen to determine the appropriate manner of further scaling back our operation.

Mike Hughes

Date: Jul 11, 2021, at 3:53 PM

From: Denise DeLuca To: Eleanor

Hi Eleanor,

I'm confused. It seems like Mike has now cancelled the Zoom call for the preset meeting we made 3 weeks ago? I appreciate your efforts for him to uninvite the additional supporters since this isn't a popularity contest, but now he has deemed this meeting unnecessary?

Mike inviting us to join him at the concerts make its abundantly clear that he is missing the issue. We aren't against the concerts or events when they are at a volume level where we can't hear them or the announcers or the late night drinkers.

Are we to just going to now assume that there will be good faith efforts to make this all work when the attempts for the last 3 weeks haven't worked and the late night drinking hasn't stopped?

Denise.

Date: Jul 11, 2021, at 5:27 PM

From: Revelle To: Denise

Hi, Denise and Everyone —

I agree. The flurry of emails has made things very confusing.

Here is where I think we are. I believe that Mike realizes that there is no amount of “sound adjustment” that he can make for the patio events that will succeed in mitigating the negative impact on nearby residents. He indicates that he is in the process of “scaling back” his operation, which means cancelling the bands that he had already contracted with for various dates later this summer.

I should point out that I am referring here to the patio events, and not to the special events that were approved by City Council. I supported the Post 42 application for the special event permit (for a total of 17 concerts from June-September), but I was unaware at the time that Post 42’s plans for the summer also included music events on the patio every weekend when the special event concerts were not on the schedule.

We are beyond relying on “good faith efforts” to make the patio events work. I am meeting with city staff early this coming week to address this situation, including the late night drinking.

I suggest that we meet later this coming week — Thursday, for example. The forecast looks pretty wet, so we should probably expect to meet virtually.

Eleanor

Date: July 11, 2021 at 6:21:02 PM

From: Andrew Lazar To: Revelle

Subject: Re: Post 42 Concerts - Next Steps

Hi Eleanor.

Thank you for the clarifications and updates. It is much appreciated.

By the tone of some recent emails you could probably tell that these constant disruptions were starting to take a real toll on people’s tempers here, including myself.

I am personally relieved to hear this news and am somewhat more optimistic than I was this morning. It is the first step in the right direction that I believe we’ve had in several weeks.

I look forward to our discussion later this week and welcome any further progress.

Hoping you have a peaceful Sunday evening and again thank you.

Andy

Date: Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 7:03 PM

From: Daniel Mccann To: Andrew Lazar

Subject: Re: Post 42 Concerts - Next Steps

Andy,

Thanks for sharing. Thanks, too, for your efforts here. Looks like they're beginning to pay off.