NTSB 2023 Safety Summit on FAA Aeromedical Reform

On December 6, 2023 The National Transportation Safety Board held a roundtable safety summit to discuss the FAA's shortcomings in Mental Health callting the process stuck in the 1950s.  The entire summits was later uploaded to Youtube.  

video 1 

6 min 10 sec  https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=icwEpuOCz9006lr7&t=370 NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy states that 1 in 5 adults has a diagnosable mental health condition, however most are not severe.  More than half of the US population will end up with a diagnosable mental condition,  

6 m 47 sec  https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=xwizf_NbLVtkEAUV&t=407 due to the stigma of the diagnosis and the fact the FAA has draconian standards that practically any mental health diagnosis no matter how treatable or benign will lead to loss of medical certificates and loss of jobs, less than half of people with diagnosable mental disorders seek formal diagnosis and treatment.  

7 min 20 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=fBfGOlbhrPZ8g-TF&t=440 Open secret in aviation either those that hold medical certificates avoid treatment to not be diagnosed and lose their medicals or lie if they sought out treatment in the past. 

8 min 18 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=phw_jrS36e4VHKro&t=498 Chair Homendy calls out the manipulated facts the FAA puts out where they claim only 0.1% of those that disclose mental health diagnoses are denied and never granted medicals when in fact the number is much higher partially because of the pilots that don't disclose to fear of being permanently grounded.  

8 min 45 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=a-W7COf6ryVPCF_v&t=525 Homendy states the FAA's policy of grounding pilots that disclose, then pilots are trapped in "frustrating maze of federal bureaucracy" in order to attempt to get their medicals back and are forced to pay tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket to do so on top of the months of  lost income. 

9 min 28 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=fmHgDs-ee8Nni_Ya&t=568 The FAA punishes those who tell the truth and follow the rules of disclosure incentivizing rolling the dice and lying.  

13 min 17 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=FEeY8Ux3fpQ8V-Kt&t=797 mental health is on a dynamic spectrum, not absolutism as the current practice by the FAA.  Most pilots can benefit from speaking with mental health specials that will keep them safely flying without fear of being grounded and losing their livelyhoods.    

15 min 17 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=sMHpXMB-AksOfhtE&t=920 Outgoing NTSB Vice Chair Bruce Landsberg said he voluntary grounded himself for 6 weeks after loosing his son and sought consoling.  He did not report it the FAA which would have lead to an indefinate grounding and unnecessary cognitive testing. 

16 min 25 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=V3rtYOy5feG1GR9p&t=985 Landsberg states to many pilots are grounded due to the FAA's draconian conditions created by the current regulations.  

30 min 24 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=J3Ektl7CEQwCyZTU&t=1824 parents of a pilot that committed suicide tell their story of the FAA current policy made their son choose between his medical and seeking treatment for depression.  Their son did not want to give up on aviation by being grounded by the FAA.  

31 min 28 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=Ui8_NlV9yP289hmB&t=1888 previous FAA administrator told their son the barriers between for being honest about their mental health were "perceived barriers" which the parents immediately rebutted stating "we would not be here today (at the NTSB summit) if the barriers were merely just a perception.  

41 min 44 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=K9ZZJh3dEWXTVp3d&t=2504 They joined the board of the Pilot's Mental Health Campaign a 501(c)(4) to lobby for legislation that reduces or eliminates the red tape, time, and expense the FAA makes a pilot that is cognitively profiled have to endure

43 min 19 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=7_m-BaPAU9Ua84o9&t=2599 Troy Merritt a 1st officer for United Airlines who is grounded by the FAA after self grounding to voluntarily seek treatment for depression and anxiety.  He said he had to see multiple specialists, spent over $8k out of pocket and now has to wait and additional 6-12 months for the FAA to review the paperwork.  

47 min 12 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=vju5Z4mZLY4appEG&t=2832 says he would have sought treatment much sooner if it wasn't going to be a barrier to him flying and earning a living.  He said it's onerous, time consuming and expensive leading many pilots to avoid it.  

49 min 20 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=r4kl8GwnZN-mqXfy&t=2960 Stephanie Day talks about the the current draconian policies by the FAA lead Joseph Emerson to self medicate leading to his actions of trying to intentionally crash a plane.   She referred to Emerson's actions as unintended consequences of the FAA's current policy.  She herself has been trying to get a medical for 7 years and spent over $20k.  She said not all AME's and HIMS psychologists are created equal and that she was actually misdiagnosed with bi-polar which has complicated the matter.  

56 min 57 https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=s2PNEAnuBuQ3w8GB&t=3417 Stephanie reads a letter drafted from "Birds of a feather" an advocacy organization to help pilots get their medicals, stating that the FAA process is outdated and way to time and monetary consuming calling it prohibitive that its blocking way to many clear headed individuals from aviation.    

1 hour 0 min 4 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=s2PNEAnuBuQ3w8GB&t=3417 Tim Sisk who works for the FAA and had medicals for 30 years was denied a medical for taking a well known prescribed mental health medication.   He's been fighting this denial for 21 months spent $10k and submitted 297 pages of info to the FAA that he feels much should have been HIPAA protected.  They also wanted VA records which don't exist because Sisk was never in the military.  

1 hour 3 min 41 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=OyDbvMkbH1ahgLAq&t=3821 Says surgeons, law enforcement, and first responders don't have this much scrutiny or regulatory oversight.  

1 hour 6 min 28 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=GyzG94DwI44amPzA&t=3988 says applying statistics over 150k pilots will have a chronic or acute mental health diagnosis in a given year.  If the FAA continues down this current path of grounding, the pilot pool will shrink in only a few years that will lead to the collapse of the aviation industry.  

1 hour 7 min 37 sec  https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=4DCqN_M1JwB5dB5M&t=4057 The FAA must update their policies and use modern data. FAA claims the agency is data driven but Sisk says where is the data that mental health prescriptions or seeing a therapist, were the root of accidents.  The FAA does not have valid data to prove it in fact the FAA is backwards with their policies.  The microscope is being unduly punishing those pilots that were being honest and disclosed and is not doing anything for those pilots that avoided seeking help 

1 hour 11 min 7 second https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=PXZhNYNQlAgQiHMT&t=4267 Laila Stein stated one of her students was told he would never be able to fly because he was tagged with ADHD that did not require medication in the 3rd grade.  Another student was denied a medical when when he didn't realize that he had to list he saw a therapist and after he was deferred for another diagnosis.  

1 hour 11 min 37 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=J2q9VUIfC4Z7ibsf the message to the students was, if you want to fly, do not disclose anything even if that means lying. 

1 hour 14 min 18 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=VmW6f2GYpluLfT8o&t=4458 Stein wrote her honors thesis on the damage caused by the FAA's failed medical polices that was causing unnecessary grounding an pilots taking their lives.  

1 hour 17 min 22 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=3-RZcf9spq7oMEmH&t=4642  Homendy thanks the first set of panelist  and asks to called by her first name.  She also said pilots should not be put into the position by the FAA of choosing whether to fly or seek help for their mental health. the FAA's draconian policies are "not safety" 

1 hour 18 min 39 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=tqnd7kejY8-uI80f&t=4719 Landsberg stating that these conditions should not be considered by the FAA as "shortcomings" but in fact realities of the human condition that affects everyone.  He says the FAA medical certification process does not take this into account.  He says that the FAA has not changed their mental health standards for over 50 years claiming they still use policies from the 1950s, meaning they have not been updated for 70 years, with some policies dating back to World War 2.  The FAA overs uses the phrase "out of abundance of caution the answer is no."  and that's wrong.    

1 hour 21 min 54 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=j1UrcXIPQ7BnezxT&t=4914 Sisk stated he takes medicine for high cholesterol but the FAA doesn't care about it, even though high cholesterol would have a higher chance of sudden incapacitation by a heart attack in the cockpit that mental health medication.  He questions why is mental health not treated like cholesterol.  

1 hour 24 min 56 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=K8cpWAGpCx5YI47u&t=5096 Landsberg calls out the FAA for keeping the disqualifying medication list a secret.  He calls out that lack of transparency by the FAA where they view everyone is guilty which Landsbergis states is absolutely backwards  

1 hour 26 min 04 sec  https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=_UklviDxl8MxSbyM&t=5164   Homendy then states APOA knows what the list is, but you should not be forced to join an organization to know what the list is. 

1 hour 26 min 42 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=oE2Qz2xYhVCgtTr8&t=5202  Landsberg then stated then if you mention the med to the AME, you get automatically differed and "put into a black whole"  He also went on to state if the pilot is forced to respond in 60 days why isn't the government forced to respond in 60 days.  

1 hour 28 min 59 sec https://youtu.be/xL9F_hr9mzU?si=7nilGBEO9rm5nG--&t=5339 There is a lack of trust by pilots of the FAA

Video 2 

3 min 24 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=BJM1nc_FzHqNabnq&t=204 FAA Representative Dr. Penny Giovanetti tries to spin and exaggerate the FAA is more proactive in fixing their medical certification than it actually is.  

4 min 55 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=pKYFswlopNb7jPV9&t=295 Giovanetti brings up US gymnast Simone Biles which is odd considering she was on ADHD medication and had to drop out of the Olympics claiming she recognized she was not safe and should not go flying.  basically claiming that pilots tagged with ADHD should give up before they start.  Wonder if Giovanetti would change her tune from the post in X by Biles in June 2025 https://x.com/Simone_Biles/status/1931129527679308054 @Riley_Gaines_ You’re truly sick, all of this campaigning because you lost a race. Straight up sore loser. You should be uplifting the trans community and perhaps finding a way to make sports inclusive OR creating a new avenue where trans feel safe in sports. Maybe a transgender category IN ALL sports!! 

But instead… You bully them… 

One things for sure is no one in sports is safe with you around!!!!! 

7 min 44 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=matXih0lYv4XXodx&t=464  Giovanetti falsely claims the barriers set up by the FAA are myths. 

9 min 34 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=Qy-GcoH7g9qfNtU9&t=574 Giovanetti false claims that pilots don't get "grounded forever" and that only 0.1% have final denial determination.  

13 min 15 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=PH0BRgBiJRhzr7m3&t=795 claims decisions "aren't secrets even though the seem like they are"  claiming the FAA is working towards an "acceptable level of safety" but also admitted the FAA's past policies were implemented without proper data.  She also admitted that the Cogscreen did not add any useful data for decision making or risk assessment over a decade of forcing certain pilots to take it.  

15 min 16 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=Z_3Thlsajnx3BZTT addresses delays but claims there is more demand for specialty review in psychiatry (that the agency is artificially creating) and she has no idea how to fix the backlog

17 min 52 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=7WfvnBG0y1QpITq7&t=1071 falsely claims that permanent grounding is rare. 

19 min 34 seconds youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=4jFRMXEwSmMlZu5H&t=1174 Dr. Quay Snyder HIMS 20% of the population gets diagnosed with a mental health condition a year and over 50% of the population and the aviation industry cannot afford to lose half its pilots and air traffic controllers with less than 700k active pilots.   

20 min 54 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=Myw9vJZNfRHA_5pX&t=1254 Snyder admits that the FAA had just as draconian policies for blood pressure medicine or breaking a leg regarding grounding, now the FAA does consider those issues what so ever regarding issuing medicals, so why is mental health being left behind? he advocates mental heath should be treated like blood pressure medicine 

22 min 35 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=jq2VuwdZEZ2ofQJq&t=1355 admits that the distrust by the aviation community to FAA medical is so great it encourages non-disclosure even if it requires committing perjury

31 min 54 sec  https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=P6M6lLPvuUkaaAcw&t=1914 admits major issue with the for 8500-8 form for reporting to AME with inconsistencies compared to MedXpress  more details here.  https://sites.google.com/site/no2cog/supportin  g-evidence/inconsistency-in-reporting-medical-issues-between-form-8500-8-medxpres?authuser=0 admitting the FAA moved the reporting goalposts

32 min 12 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=e8JeR3Ibe9WXU6PU&t=1932 the regulator IE the FAA should NOT get involved in grounding a pilot unless the pilot voluntarily agrees with external mental heath experts.  

36 min https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=cNir0UzZHQq_7_K_&t=2160 Senior AME Dr. Brent Blue starts,  He's says that egregious reporting requirements are in fact a detriment to aviation safety  He says the lack of trust by FAA Medical with the AMEs and mental health specials is one of the problems

37 min 10 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=RVBofMrWsJufkFyq&t=2230 says HIMS is broken and should not be a catch all, example why is ADHD fall under HIMS when it was meant for drug and alcohol abusers.  

37 min 46 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=9O3QPB8JoqgvaOmu&t=2265 says ADHD has been a "childhood disease du jour" has been overdiagnosed and often times without testing and then says its extremely difficult to unlabeled these pilots as far as the FAA is concerned 

38 min 9 sec  https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=p9XuFb-1NNfSRygc&t=2289 pilots do not report mental health because they know they will either lose their medicals or with student pilots never be granted them in the first place.  points out the 0.1% of permanent denials the FAA likes to throw out but points out it FAA does not factor in pilots that either give up through the years long process or not even start the process.  

39 min 30 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=gdPEfUP0xNTjPJyb&t=2370 points out the FAA forces pilots to see their hand picked psychologists & psychiatrists and forces pilots to take an unproven computer test (the Cogscreen) that has bias against older pilots and those that don't play videogames.  Says one oh his pilots took 6 years to get certified.  

40 minutes 1 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=WjhXzN7J8jNnO-Ru&t=2401 criteria for passing the Cogscreen is based on obsolete Freudian Theories that have been disproven and replaced by more up to date data that uses modern brain chemistry.  says the tests don't prevent accidents, pilots self assessments do.  

40 min 55 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=TmTGVtkbnVRikQhY&t=2455 reemphasized the FAA does not trust the AMEs when they should. AME's should be allowed to grant medicals vs automatically defer to AAM-300

42 min 4 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=6PAzsWwuD3djDRcF&t=2523 under the current system pilots are forced to turn in their medical history to the FAA "to put in their file" not review but put in their file which Dr. Blue says "for whatever the hell that means: (sure seems like a HIPAA violation) FAA ignores any recommendations stating pilots are fit to fly because the FAA wants the pilot to go through AAM-300's "arigent process"

42 min 50 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=13M4yretuegdsKq5&t=2570 FAA should grant AME's more authority to grant medicals on the spot vs. having to get cognitively profiled by the FAA which will encourage reporting of things like ADHD which will ultimately make the skies safer.  cites BasicMed as an example which allows any licensed doctor using their own discretion to grant medicals as a successful example

43 min 37 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=upsJtIZ8un6qvtzm&t=2617 asks what is the real effect of the current FAA mental health evaluation process (cognitively profiling) and points out the current policy by the FAA is making the skies less safe.  

51 min 44 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=64qlZvhYlmg1h4uK&t=3104 Prof. Harley Waters says current environment's is created elevated levels of depression and anxiety at Middle Tennessee State University's student body and accused her of being an undercover FAA spy. 

1 hour 4 min 38 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=-wv8Z07dBaPHQKb5&t=3877 Dr William Hoffman also points out pilots that tell the truth by disclosing end up grounded for a minimum of 6 months.  rebukes Giovanetti   there is peer reviewed publications that this creates actual barriers to acquiring and maintaining a medical

1 hour 5 min 22 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=8qlBjPbXpr1HVXT5&t=3922 data supports over surveying over 5,170 pilots mover 56% avoid seeking help for mental health because they know they would lose their medicals because of it

1 hour 8 min 5 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=s_iMde5jd9ytvYF4&t=4085 Hoffman once a rebukes 

Giovanetti and identifies at least 150 barriers the FAA set up to pilots that disclose anything mental health related. The FAA forces the pilots to figure it out without guidence.  

1 hour 11 min 34 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=raMJ_Fwy-HzkUHo6&t=4305 points out that non-airline pilots do not have a safety net

1 hour 14 min 21 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=xnjfD5VLuVdrEndr&t=4461 Vice chair Landsberg grills Giovanetti about her claims of perceived barriers.is false that it is not a perception problem but a reality for a huge number of pilots.  Landsberg also is not proud that he has degree in psychology. He also said with statistics and data, "if you torture the data enough, you'll get it to confess to anything"  (basically stating that the cognatative assessments are subjectively graded where the data is tortured/manipulated to give the desired results) and we have to be careful how  we use statistics  

1 hour 15 min 27 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=eHkmFa9MOg3G3ZQW&t=4527 While FAA claims pilots don't understand the system, in reality pilots see how broken the FAA's current policies really are and that the "positive cases" are outweighed by the negative ones 

1 hour 15 min 57 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=zzlaPD8jMsfKGkcP&t=4557 Landsberg states the FAA doesn't want people to understand the system  is hiding data from the AMEs 

1 hour 17 min 33 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=M7WRRU_2cw1L-zNJ&t=4653 Homendy asks Giovanetti about the FAA rule making committee. Geovanetti says they will focus on the barriers.  claims there will be 20 voting members and none will be "FAA People"

1 hour 19 min 26 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=FX9O4goP7oH_pnSM&t=4766 Dr. William Bramble asks what percentage of mental disorders are aeromedically significant to which Geovanetti claims she hopes almost all will be resolved so they won't be considered a safety issue anymore "eventually"  she falsely claims 80% of those with mental health diagnosis get their medicals directly from their AME and the other 20% get it eventually

1 hour 23 min https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=jMkhdHBCLNsZoxM9&t=4980 the financial consequences of the current FAA mental health policy

1 hour 25 min 30 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=LMEatn4BN3gTtGYA&t=5130 Dr. Snyder says the FAA needs to drop their policy of revoking pilots certificates for failing to report mental health diagnoses in the past. 

1 hour 28 min 20 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=sMvOTS1WOKX4JzYl&t=5300 Dr. Blue brings up the 1% rule regarding the 1% chance of sudden incapacitation in the cockpit used for some physical disorders but does not use it for mental health, Giovanetti disputes Dr. Blues claim the FAA has a 1% rule.   

1 hour 29 min 57 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=g6AkGPkuMyFrzx1a&t=5397 Homendy asks Giovanetti how the FAA ensures their mental health standards are current.  Giovanetti only recently says they hired a couple of psychiatrists that were recent clinicians.  

1 hour 31 min 8 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=dQhs57oVm2BX48td&t=5468 Chair Homendy asks Giovanetti how is the office staffing as is there a cap (total amount of employees allowed to be hired in the office) to which Giovanetti is confused.  Homendy states she runs a federal agency so she has to know what the cap is on the agency. Giovanetti responds she doesn't know and it's flexible.  .  

1 hour 32 min 38 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=b2jx5DYFtI5hOHqO&t=5558 Dr. Snyder states with the FAA needing more resources, they currently are hogged said resources due to their obsolete cognitive profiling process and cognitive testing and that other countries such as the UK use simulators instead with check airmen or DPEs.  Dr. Hoffman is asked about using performance based evaluations (actually flying and simulators ) vs cognitive testing

1 hour 36 min 39 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=uCOLyNcBlOePwjqW&t=5799 Dr. Hoffman says there needs to be a redefinition of "aero-medically significant" as to reduce what needs to be reported and reduce what is reported that leads to automatic grounding

1 hour 37 min 52 sec https://youtu.be/8NOndCer-i4?si=3O_AjF0_qp_5iBLb&t=5872 Homendy emphasized that when she first became chair of the NTSB, she asked what is the agency doing wrong and what needs to be improved upon, something other federal agencies need to do.  

video 3

1 min 34 sec  https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=s0fIZZgyKjqUz-U8&t=94   Homendy asks how has the pandemic changed aviation attitudes Dave Spero answers says there is the lack of trust moving forward  frank Ayers says that the path to airline jobs is 7 years and that student pilots are worried that the FAA will screw them by yanking their medicals.  

6 min 20 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=bp1bOjhIFHTA4hWd&t=380 Homendy says that the FAA isn't prepared to review the next generation of pilots that have been over diagnosed with ADHD and that it will be a backup.  She also brought up that when she grew up in the 1970s kids were no tagged with mental health diagnoses because said diagnoses did not exist.  She gave a Gen X response of "rub some dirt on it and keep going.  .    

9 min 3 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=mjp19MYes3Qi4BSm&t=543 Dr. Blue says big issue is misdiagnosis such as ADHD and undoing said misdiagnosis are a major process that is difficult and the other is what is the aeromedical significance of these diagnoses and are they really severe enough to ground the pilot over.

10 min 24 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=tRdrfSVOdBNEg6JH&t=625 Landsberg asks Blue directly "how well does this Cogscreen business work?" Blue says that Gary Kay test a bunch of pilots to create norms and says well these are the norms and if you don't make that norm you fail.  Blue says there is no connection to a cockpit.  He says that the scores have no correlation to how well and safe a pilot can fly.  If you make a 70 instead of an 80, you made a 70 and means nothing as to aeronautical decision making.  He advocates using flight simulators check or a flight check is a much more valid way of determining cognitive ability or more specifically aeronautical decision making.  Dr. Blue gave an example that he had a pilot being forced to take he Cogscreen for 26 years and there is no data that shows why he was required to do so.  Lansberg then asks does the FAA have a simulator test to evaluate if a pilot with a mental disorder.  Blue said no and that because they don't the FAA has no data to show if a mental disorder or an ADHD diagnosis actually affects the person's ability to pilot an aircraft.  

13 min 49 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=9-Y3jcvZnkFuc9Mx&t=829 

Lansberg asks Dr. Elizabeth Bjerke asks what do HIMS psychologist's evaluations have to do with flying aircraft.  What Data does the FAA Have to say, you have X, it makes you unfit to fly.  How do we know any of this makes any sense what so ever

14 min 27 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=vHl0my_bzaFwf94r&t=867 

Dr. Quay Snyder says Cogscreen in an initial test that looks for relevant cognitive traits such as throughput which is speed plus accuracy and short term recalls Says FAA is looking for alternate tests (due to backlash) 

16 min 16 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=qolNQ03rf14dZEf4&t=976 Landsberg asks is there any data that shows a correlation between a Cogscreen score say a Cogscreen failure and how well one can fly an aircraft.  Snyder struggles to answer the question and eventually admits there is no real data between a Cogscreen score and the ability to fly an aircraft.  Dr. Willam Hoffman also struggles to come up with a defense for the Cogscreen.

18 min 54 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=lUvPwQsExj2SF0Bg&t=1134 

At this point Landsberg questions if any of the test are or can be valid. More on that here were Penny Geovanetti admits the Soviet Russians helped validate the Cogscreen,  https://sites.google.com/site/no2cog/supporting-evidence/faa-admits-that-cogscreen-creator-worked-with-the-russians-to-validate-test?authuser=0 

21 min 26 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=RvdKUpV7bmIpuqrR&t=1286 Dr. Alex Wu asks if other government agencies such as NASA use the cognitive assessments.  

22 min 28 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=Ua1wMzwglJ8g_Vy-&t=1348 Brian Bomhoff of the Pilot's Mental Health Campaign stated that Dr. Hoffman and Dr. Snyder pre-published a report regarding performance based approach to mental health screening where on page 4 no study to their knowledge has been performed on pilots with a critical health condition.  He says this is quite the statement, especially since the FAA makes pilots go through the "Gary Kay Special" of tests with no data to back it up.  Giovanetti answers the FAA though that SSRI's degrade cognitive ability over time but the data now debunks that theory.  They feel they need to require HIV patients to take the Cogscreen due to HIV degrading cognition over time 

24 min 52 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=aVJWYz9SnGJvBz5J&t=1492 Bomhoff points out FAA stopped repeat Cogscreen on SSRI because they have now 10 years of data to show it's pointless, then asks Giovanetti why still require the initial testing, what does the data show, Giovanetti responds FAA really never reviewed the data to require the initial tests and that the FAA is drawing conclusions that the tests were not designed for.  

26 min 9 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=pEkirB-TMmBoMv0t&t=1569 Hoffman admits its next to impossible to get pilots to voluntarily become gunny pigs and risk losing their medicals to validate simulators.  (so why not ask pilots that got shafted by the Cogscreen to do it especially since if they passed checkrides for multiple ratings) Hoffman then asks do we need to put pilots with minor mental health symptoms into a simulator (such as those tagged with ADHD that have passed multiple checkrides) 

27 min 27 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=B1DAnqkmzcUAsJQ1&t=1647 Dave Spero asks what is the FAA going to do now to get through the bureaucracy.  he doesn't buy the FAA is understaffed.  He also said its going to take a lot for pilots to trust the FAA.  Homendy also brings up the lack of transparency and the status quo is not acceptable

32 min 34 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=Yji9oeIQ3zeKa1BB&t=1954 Rondeau Flynn says the way things are set up with the FAA it's counterintuitive to actually acquire sound data.  Also pilots with their IMSAFE personal minimums are doing an excellent job of self regulating  

40 min 26 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=zYsYU0w7DL8uiqcY&t=2426 FAA needs to build trust with pilots and not punish the pilots that were honest.  FAA needs to come up with a transparent pathway for those pilots to either retain or quickly get back their medicals

43 min 6 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=vchRC89_CmDmDD8Y&t=2586  stated that what was presented at the NTSB safety summit was one problem after another that was not managed the way it should have been.  Also points out the difference between general aviation part 91 and 135 charter vs airline 121 operations and that part 91 and 135 pilots are given the shaft due to the FAA using "tribal wisdom" where they are using something the agency thinks works but is failing miserably and that this tribal wisdom is untested. 

48 min 34 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=SB1yUYPGtGZzU8Qi&t=2914 Travis Ludwig says pilots only trust people if the info is kept confidential.  (maybe if the FAA followed HIPAA we would not be in this big of a mess)

53 min 14 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=FcYmWBe-pFBoa8Zg&t=3194 Andrew LeBovidge says that air traffic controllers are over stressed using worn out obsolete often broken equipment.  Controllers are under staffed often working mandatory 6 day weeks.  (A good portion of the under staffing is FAA quacks revoking medicals of the controllers with the Cogscreen) 

55 min 38 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=HDNZ7pgYhkSDYILx&t=3338 Dr. Blue reiterates the certification issues is broken.  statistics show thousands of pilots (a large percentage) that are functioning well with depression and make sound safe aeronautical decision making that the FAA does not know about and there are no accidents. He says the current FAA policy is doing nothing but discourage pilots from seeking treatment making the skies less safe.  FAA rules committee needs to realize that this blanket approach is not in the best interest in aviation safety and to let these pilots fly.  

57 min 22 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=M2Za4v7eG2lqZvRI&t=3442 Brent Spero says what is the point of wasting resources have pilots turn in 297 pages and have the FAA spend 21 months to review it when this should not have been an issue in the first place.  (as in not something that should be considered aero medically significant and to have someone's medical revoked) 

1 hour 17 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=ZCK497Bg-TbYX2p3&t=3617 Bomhoff recommends eliminating the requirement of mandatory disclosure of every medical event going to back to the beginning, it's a scientifically unnecessary burden.  reevaluate the term aeromedically significant since its too broad and ambiguous.  More appeal rights for pilots that got shafted by FAA medical.  There should be better ways for complicated cases to to adjudicated

1 hour 2 min 31 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=VxxRNuQhiezzHpSp&t=3751 Greg Regan says that there is fear that the FAA will go after retribution against a pilot that discloses   

1 hour 3 min 34 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=kIHJ6CvT-zTmRvfj&t=3814  Landsberg says that general aviation has a reporting system through NASA that acts as the intermediary and de-identifes the data that prevents the FAA from taking charge and going after the pilots that reported the incidents.  Landsberg is advocates that NASA since they already have the infrastructure in place should do this for mental health as well.  

1 hour 5 min 37 min https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=58p2cEtEO4djCr08&t=3937 Francis Heil asks on behalf of pilots what is the incentive for disclosing?  Landsberg then states "do I raise my hand do I get shot at" under ASAP you don't holding the FAA at bay.   

1 hour 8 min 33 seconds https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=2qAXWXVX-7CcA_-R&t=4113 Landsberg says the line needs to be drawn at punitive action.  Landsberg says the FAA lied about not having this problem from all the stories told at the Safety Summit.  He siad he does not care to gamble his certificates with the FAA stating sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't BTW its going to cost you $10 to 20k and 3 years of your life.  The FAA needs to partner in this in a non-punative way  

1 hour 11 min https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=97LVH21kuY_fsI31&t=4260

LeBovidge says cases can be referred for criminal prosecution by the FAA.  LeBovidge got involved after a colleague came clean to the FAA.  While it was being investigated the case was referred to the DOT IG who refused to state if it was a criminal or administrative investigation.  It was recommended she hired a criminal attorney, and that night she took her life.  Next Day DOT IG then claimed it as only an administrative investigation..   Air traffic controllers would be fired from the FAA for failing to maintain a medical certificate.  

1 hour 15 min 27 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=Gg9ubRCSLVEHCt7I&t=4527 Dr. Blue states that pilot self certifcation works so why cant the FAA issue temparay medicals to pilots being  stuck in the cue or review until the FAA omes up with their final decision?

1 hour 18 min 03 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=KvhoQ6DhrHytbqo8&t=4683 says that he's experienced people that do well in checkrides but are a mess in the cockpit and those that do therapy well or cognitive testing well, he ass are they telling the truth.  (also why isn't the reverse true, suck at tests but excel in the real world.  says 56% are not reporting.  

1 hour 26 min 5 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=evrbp0Q_JGkRs1rW&t=5165 points out that potential new members of the pilot pool under the current FAA policy have to go through a gauntlet because the public schools over diagnosed ADHD against their consent because they were minors when the tagging/diagnoses came down 

1 hour 27 min 5 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=G3qVeR63VvSGG8R_&t=5225 Dr Frank Ayers stated that the "United Soar Program" would make rounds at colleges and that they would only have to spend abotu 20 minutes per classroom.  Instead there were littrally hours of questions from 18-23 year old students probably tagged with ADHD or Autsim asking what are they chances of getting through FAA's cognative hell/  

1 hour 28 min 16 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=7SLHO3s8GgGFLAlV&t=5296 Prof Harley Waters current gen of students in college went through hight school during the pandemic and society says its ok to talk about mental health but avation is still stuck in the past.  

1 hour 30 min 35 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=ania4UBzTCjFuvL6&t=5435 Dr William Bramble asks about moving to a performance based over cognitive testing, he asks does the data exist.  William Hoffman asks should a checkride be used as a endpoint (every pilot will say yes) Hoffman than says pilots after the checkride should take cognitive assessments (which will lead to an artificially low number because a checkride is taxing and this is a 14th Amendment equal protection clause violation since most other pilots end the assessment at a checkride.   

1 hour 33 min 7 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=68rvAsmlAZqAB9xS&t=5587 Giovanetti agrees with Dr. Hoffman, the FAA has "huge data gaps" (meaning there is nothing concrete that supports the FAA's cognative profiling) She admits that don't have data to prove if someone is tagged with X disease it will produce symptoms that will make them aero medically unfit to fly.   Dr ALex Wu asked his colleges is ther was a follow-up study to his report, he said no 

1 hour 36 min 56 sec NTSB Safety Summit - Navigating Mental Health in Aviation (Panel 3)

This needs to be emphisized the FAA lacks data and has massive data gaps regarding the real world validity of these snake oil tests that are clearly not predictors of a pilots mental state and FAA medical force pilots to take and have created 300 page reports that really don't amount to anything, Dr. Geovanetti stated that "it's expert opinion"   and even more disturbing is that Geovanetti stated that conclusions have to be extrapolated from studies that were not designed to answer that particular question which she also admitted is dangerous and is "done very often." 

1 hour 38 min 12 secs https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=ZSp8Fpjiflc_dJmZ&t=5892

when asked is there subjectivity when coming up with a determination of a particular pilot, she admitted to that as well and that it was pointed out that they with the same "data" the FAA can deny one particular pilot the ability to fly but grant that ability to another  which is a clear violation of the 14th Amendment equal protection clause.  Geovannitti said there is a second set of subjective eyes but also admitted that doesn't change the fact that its still a subjective determination and that there is no real hard data that is available to be used to ground a pilot  https://sites.google.com/site/no2cog/supporting-evidence/faa-admits-cog-tests-lack-data-are-subjective-are-used-beyond-intent 

1hour 39 min 49 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=hyCOsUFJ1lEqqL3J&t=5989 Branble asked the FBI behavior analyzes and the Secret Service said that there is no correlation between someone with a minor mental health disorder and committing violence is they do not have psychotic features. There is no profile for these types of intentonal acts so for the FAA's current policy to work, every pilot needs to be grounded and you have no aviation industry (Bsically knocking holes into every FAA psychologist obsessed with German wings)

1hour 46 min 50 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=QQp-n_xbV3g2lKEp&t=6409 Dr. Hoffman stated that during COVID government agencies went outside of their lane regarding masks on airplanes.  Question brought to the FAA and they said "they are a safety organization not a healthcare organization"  (So FAA Medical has no basis is science?) go to the CDC who said we are a healthcare organzation not an aerospace organization. airline are profitable and safe, the voice that is missing is the pilot patient.  

1hour 53 min 44 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=ka3oJdwKaEQe---3&t=6824 Chair Homendy says with GA the pilot does not have an airline advocating for them and they have to advocate for themselves against the FAA which is extremely difficult and "largely not transparent process at all"

1 hour 58 min 55 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=O5hzTJHQWY5idumG&t=7136 Jeremey Horn said one of the few people pushing for Aeromedical Reform within the FAA is Dr. Brent Wyrick.   

1 hour 59 min 43 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=8LPf_ui2GUMd2xgd&t=7183 Dr. Blue states FAA has a major problem with their mental health evaluation program, needs to accept that and overhaul it.  They need to grant temporary medical certificates during the years the FAA sits on a pilots files which will encourage pilots to disclose more

2 hour 5 min 19 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=x-7yVNdv9GopBoHr&t=7519 Francis Heil points out that the financial hardship created by the FAA not only affects the pilot but their family.  The FAA needs to update their policy.

2 hour 7 min 44 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=LEBN8s_7ziwcfy_Z&t=7664 speaker says avoid group think

2 hour 16 min 4 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=1A0kQfwndQ6DuCho&t=8164  Giovantetti says she has 4 pages of notes to take back to the FAA

2 hour 17 min 17 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=bEsa7g5iErzjdaG1&t=8237 Landsberg there needs to be real data going forward.  The medical and evaluation process needs to be 100% transparent going forward with the AMEs.  Also pushing for a collaborative and non punative process to self report.  

2 hour 19 min 7 sec https://youtu.be/j8olppsIsdY?si=CMXCwVJ1ZXqy25Oy&t=8347 Homendy says yes on data but also YES on action.  can't lose sight that pilots are still grounded while gathering data