Glaciomarine

Tillites Exist and Glaciomarine Deposits are Still Inconsistent with Noah’s Flood

Kevin R. Henke, Ph.D.

May 3, 2014

Introduction: Why Young-Earth Creationists Oppose Multiple Glaciations

Glaciations are not mentioned in the Bible, but the evidence for Pleistocene glaciations is so overwhelming that most young-Earth creationists (YECs) are now forced to somewhat deal with their reality. M.J. Oard, the chief YEC spokesperson on glaciations, only argues for one brief “Ice Age” that supposedly resulted from the environmental chaos after “Noah's Flood” (Oard, 1990). Oard (1990; 2005) believes that this post-Flood “Ice Age” lasted for about 700 years. However, the geologic record not only indicates that there were multiple Pleistocene glaciations, but that major glaciations also occurred during the Late Paleozoic (Carboniferous), Ordovician, and Late Precambrian (Neoproterozoic). These multiple glaciations threaten the very foundation of young Earth, “Flood geology” creationism. The mere 4,000 years or so of YEC “post-Flood” history is not nearly long or old enough to explain multiple Pleistocene glaciations. Pre-Pleistocene glaciations are also totally incompatible with the popular YEC view of a warm pre-Flood Earth and the idea that almost all of the sedimentary rock record formed from an approximately one year-long worldwide Biblical Flood. Glaciers simply develop too slowly and in environments that are totally incompatible with Noah’s Flood. Furthermore, YECs insist that the Earth is only 6,000 to 10,000 years old and that's not enough time for glaciers to develop, melt, and redevelop numerous times. Oard (1997, pp. 3-7) openly admits these problems. Because of these threats, Oard (1990; 1997; 2009a) and other YECs are desperate to find some way to declare all pre-Pleistocene glacial deposits to be mass flows or other non-glacial events associated with Noah’s Flood and to somehow claim that the multiple Pleistocene glaciations can be compressed into one post-Flood “Ice Age.”

Mr. Oard’s Strategy to Eliminate Pre-Pleistocene Glacial Threats to Young-Earth Creationism

It is obvious from Oard (1997) and Oard (2009a) that Mr. Oard has a spurious two-step strategy to eliminate the pre-Pleistocene glacial threat to Flood geology and his young Earth. First, he will attempt to convince his readers that current geological research is rapidly reidentifying pre-Pleistocene tillites and other terrestrial glacial deposits as actually having glaciomarine or other aqueous origins. The idea is that soon no pre-Pleistocene glacial deposits would be definitively recognized as terrestrial. Second, once he achieves this goal, he will then try to convince the public that glaciomarine deposits are not really glacial after all, but were marine mass movements deposited by a global catastrophe in the recent past, namely Noah’s Flood.

As discussed in my 1999 essay, a review of the scientific literature shows that the efforts to eliminate the evidence for pre-Pleistocene glaciations in Oard (1997) were an utter failure. Oard (1997) misquoted numerous references to promote his agenda and ignored abundant evidence in those very references that supported the existence of ancient glaciations, including the existence of tillites. Further attempts in Oard (2009a) to salvage Oard (1997) and promote Flood geology also failed and the most recent literature still firmly supports the existence of glaciations in at least the Late Precambrian, Ordovician and Late Paleozoic.

Percentages of Glaciomarine Deposits and Tillites in the Geologic Record

As stated in my 1999 essay, geologists have recognized for some time that the majority of pre-Pleistocene glacial deposits are marine just as most Pleistocene glacial deposits are also marine. Oard (2009a, p. 117) quotes Eyles (1993, p. 1) as stating that over 95% of pre-Pleistocene glacial deposits by volume are marine. As a comparison, Smith (1997, p. 164) estimates that North America has about 18 times more Quaternary glaciomarine sediments than continental glacial deposits. In other words, only about 6% of North American Quaternary glacial deposits are continental, which is fortuitously close to Eyles' ~5% estimate for the pre-Pleistocene glaciations¹.

Since Oard (1990; 2005) accepts the reality of one “post-Flood” continental glaciation, why does he attempt in Oard (2009a, p. 117) to deny the very existence of continental pre-Pleistocene glacial deposits that have nearly the same percentage and also excellent evidence from the geologic record? The answer is solely because of the demands of his religious dogma. Contrary to Oard (2009a, p. 117), ~95% glaciomarine deposits and ~5% continental glacial deposits are perfectly consistent with actualism and do nothing to advance science closer to the dogmatic demands of Flood geology. It only takes one indisputable glacial deposit in the middle of the so-called “Flood deposits” to sink Flood geology, and ~5% continental glacial deposits are more than enough to eliminate Flood geology as a viable option and, as discussed below, glaciomarine deposits are still glacial and also fatal to Flood geology. Mr. Oard somehow believes that he can fit ~6% Quaternary continental glacial deposits into a single non-biblical post-Flood “ice age”, but he recognizes that he cannot fit ~5% pre-Pleistocene continental glacial deposits into Noah’s Flood and a young Earth. So, he inconsistently supports the former while irrationally opposing the latter.

Pre-Pleistocene Tillites and other Continental Glacial Deposits Exist and are Fatal to Flood Geology

Does the prominence of glaciomarine deposits mean that no definitive continental tillites exist anywhere in the pre-Pleistocene geologic record? No, not according to Deynoux and Tromplette (1976), although you would not know that from just reading how Oard (1997, p. 19) misuses this article (see below). So, is Oard (2009a, p. 117) any closer to his goal of using science to declare that pre-Pleistocene glaciations never existed and that all of these deposits can be explained by the YEC version of Noah's Flood? Of course, not. More recent studies (such as Catuneanu et al., 2005 and their references) continue to support the existence of numerous pre-Pleistocene tillites (for some details, see here and scroll down). For example, when discussing the Late Paleozoic glaciations, Catuneanu et al. (2005, p. 226) states:

“Tillites combined with periglacial and deglaciation sequences are observed in many parts of subequatorial Africa and Madagascar and are evidence of that global climatic event.”

Oard (2008b, p. 6) also admits:

“Uniformitarian scientists have not invented ancient ice ages out of thin air. They really do have evidence.”

Yes, and that very real and detailed evidence in Hirst et al. (2002), Brenchley et al. (2003), Ghienne (2003), Ghienne et al. (2003), Herrmann et al. (2004), Raymond and Metz (2004), Young et al. (2004), Le Heron et al. (2005), Moreau et al. (2005), Turner et al. (2005), El-ghali (2005), El-ghali et al. (2006), Scheffler et al. (2006), Denis et al. (2007), Herbert and Compton (2007), Selleck et al. (2007), Le Heron (2007), Le Heron et al. (2007), Le Heron and Craig (2008), Catuneanu et al. (2005), Birgenheier et al. (2009), Le Heron et al. (2009), Le Heron and Dowdeswell (2009), Angiolini et al. (2009), Hoffman and Li (2009), Fielding et al. (2010), Finlay et al. (2010), Le Heron (2010), Le Heron et al. (2010), Le Heron and Howard (2010), Finnegan et al. (2011), Montanez and Poulsen (2013), Roy and Roser (2013), Deschamps et al. (2013), Elrick et al. (2013), Holmden et al. (2013), and countless other references utterly destroys Flood geology. Based on a few observations from these papers, Mr. Oard needs to explain how Noah’s Flood could have produced these features:

• The neodymium, osmium, carbon, and oxygen isotope results in Holmden et al. (2013), Elrick et al. (2013), Finlay et al. (2010) and Finnegan et al. (2011), which support the existence of Ordovician glaciations. How did these isotopes quickly reach equilibrium during Noah’s Flood and what do they represent if they did not result from glaciations?

• How did Noah’s Flood produce the polygonal sand wedges described in Hoffman and Li (2009, pp. 164-165)?

• If Ordovician glacial ice and cold climates did not produce the soft sediment deformation features described in Le Heron and Howard (2010) and Heron and Craig (2008), how did Noah’s Flood produce them?

• How would glendonites form in shallow water during Noah’s Flood or in a warm pre-Flood world?

• If the feature in Figure 3A of Le Heron and Craig (2008, p. 23) is not a Late Ordovician glacial roche moutonnée, what is it? Where is the evidence to show that this feature is better explained by non-glacial rather than glacial processes?

• Looking at the facies studies in Birgenheier et al. (2009) and related documents, how would YECs distinguish deposits from Noah’s Flood from actual glacial deposits? What would a Noah’s Flood facies model look like? Oard (2009a, pp. 120-121) needs to stop making baseless “Noah’s Flood could accomplish that” claims, and actually demonstrate at the level of detail in Birgenheier et al. (2009) and Le Heron et al. (2005) that all of the roches moutonnées, glendonites, animal burrows, soft sediment deformation features, and other detailed observations in these rocks must have resulted from Noah’s Flood in one year or less rather than glaciations. Thus far, he has utterly failed to do so.

Distinguishing Marine and Terrestrial Glaciogenic Deposits can be Reliably Done

As shown in my 1999 essay, Oard (1997) greatly exaggerates the difficulties in distinguishing glacial from non-glacial deposits and in distinguishing glaciomarine from continental glacial deposits. Oard (2009a, p. 117) continues to promote this exaggeration. Oard (1997; 2009a) attempts to dismiss the superb evidence of pre-Pleistocene glaciations by pointing out that individual criteria (such as bedrock polish and striations or striated cobbles) may be produced by mass flows or other non-glacial causes. Oard (2009a, p. 118) also criticizes my 1999 essay for not specifying my diagnostic criteria for glacial deposits and accuses me of simply citing the “opinions” of researchers. However, Mr. Oard repeatedly misses the large picture. If he had actually studied the entire texts of some of his references rather than just cherry picking sentences out of them for Oard (1997) and Oard (2009a), and if he were to study the even more recent references listed above, Mr. Oard would quickly realize that these authors were providing informed conclusions on pre-Pleistocene glaciations based on solid evidence and many years of research, and not mere opinions. Non-glacial processes, including Noah’s Flood, simply fail to explain the origins of these pre-Pleistocene deposits.

Contrary to Oard (2009a, p. 112, 118, etc.), the days of identifying glacial or non-glacial depositional environments on the basis of one or two “diagnostic criteria” are long over. As Crowell (1999, p. 6) points out:

“In the 1950s new data and concepts and interpretations as the result of investigations of sedimentation processes, including turbidity currents and processes of deep-water deposition, showed that some stratal units, previously identified as ‘tillites,’ were better identified as ‘tilloids,’ or units that looked glacial in origin but were not.”

Crowell (1999, p. 6) goes on to explain how glacial deposits were successfully distinguished from non-glacial ones, contrary to the uninformed claims in Oard (1997; 2009a):

“Criteria for recognizing ancient glaciations were elucidated (e.g., Hambrey and Harland, 1981). Intensive studies of modern environments, especially in marine regions near glaciers in Arctic and Antarctic areas, have taught us much concerning what to look for in the ancient record…[references omitted]. Studies of cores from the sea floor, including the deep ocean, added criteria for recognizing cold climate and glaciation far from the glaciers themselves…[reference omitted]. Geochemical data now also provide information on worldwide influences of cold climates…[reference omitted].”

Geologists now look for diverse evidence when identifying depositional environments. For example, detailed facies studies (such as those in Clerc et al. 2013) demonstrate that glaciomarine rocks indeed have glacial origins. As further discussed in Crowell (1999), the evidence for each major pre-Pleistocene glaciation is also based on numerous stable isotope studies, other geochemical data, paleontology, outcrop features, paleomagnetic measurements, and other criteria (see references above), all of which utterly demolish the claims in Oard (2009a, p. 121) that his Flood geology remains “intact.” Mr. Oard’s Flood geology only appears to be alive because he won’t cite the vast amount of glacial evidence in the 21^st century articles that he cherry picks.

Oard (2009a) Fails to Openly Correct Another Misquotation Dealing with Glacial Deposits in Oard (1997)

As discussed in my 1999 essay, Oard (1997, p. 19) misquoted a statement from Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313). Here is the quotation from Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) that I cited in my 1999 essay with the small portion that Oard (1997, p. 19) used in bold:

“The late Precambrian glaciation of west Africa is a good example of widespread continental glacial deposits laid down on a relatively stable craton. This is particularly interesting because of the current opinion that almost all ancient glacial deposits are marine (Crowell, 1964) and deposited in geosynclinal or other unstable belts (Carey and Ahmad, 1960; Schermerhorn, 1974), for it is in these environments that there is much more chance of preservation. However, it is also in these environments that interpretation of these deposits is most difficult as is demonstrated by Schermerhorn’s (1974) article.”

While Oard (1997, p. 19) accurately copied the bolded sentence fragments from Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313), he left out very relevant information in the previous sentence from Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) that states that there are “widespread continental glacial deposits” in the Late Precambrian of west Africa. This is a prime example of Mr. Oard cherry picking and misrepresenting a reference. Any continental glacial deposits indicate the presence of glaciers on land surfaces and are toxic to Flood geology. More recently, Catuneanu et al. (2005) discusses many examples of Late Paleozoic tillites that Mr. Oard wants to eliminate from the geologic record (see here and scroll down).

Not surprisingly, Oard (2009a, p. 117) disagrees with my criticisms of how Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) was misquoted in Oard (1997, p. 19). Although he continues to inappropriately deny the reality of pre-Pleistocene tillites, Oard (2009a, p. 117) does, perhaps inadvertently, quote a section of my 1999 essay that shows that Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) gave an example of a continental-based glacial deposit that Oard (1997, p. 19) carelessly failed to mention:

“Nevertheless, it is obvious that Oard ([1997], p. 19) misrepresents Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) by only quoting the section that is capitalized. Oard ([1997], p. 19) has refused to recognize that Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) claim to have a real example of a continent-based glacial deposit and that not all pre-Pleistocene glacial deposits are marine.” [emphasis by Oard 2009a, p. 117]

Instead of openly confessing that he misrepresented Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) by not admitting to the very relevant existence of “widespread continental glacial deposits” in the Late Precambrian deposits of west Africa, Oard (2009a, p. 117) claims that I went “too far”:

“Again, Henke stretches too far. Deynoux and Trompette stated that most or almost all tillites are marine - which is exactly what I reported.”

However, it’s Oard (2009a, p. 117) that went too far by trying to conceal what Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) were actually saying. Again, notice the actual context of Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313):

“The late Precambrian glaciation of west Africa is a good example of widespread continental glacial deposits laid down on a relatively stable craton. This is particularly interesting because of the current opinion that almost all ancient glacial deposits are marine (Crowell, 1964) and deposited in geosynclinal or other unstable belts (Carey and Ahmad, 1960; Schermerhorn, 1974), for it is in these environments that there is much more chance of preservation. However, it is also in these environments that interpretation of these deposits is most difficult as is demonstrated by Schermerhorn’s (1974) article.” [my emphasis in bold]

Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) are emphasizing that the widespread continental glacial deposits of west Africa are the exception to the claim that most or almost all glacial deposits are marine. Again, “almost all” is not good enough for Flood geology to be viable. Oard (1997, pp. 3-7) and other YECs recognize that it's not possible for even one slow-forming, cold-climate continental glacial deposit to form in the middle of Noah's Flood and continental glaciers are also incompatible with most YEC views of a warm, tropical “pre-Flood” world. For Flood geology to be resurrected from its 19^th century death, Mr. Oard must undermine the existence of every single pre-Pleistocene glacial rock by reclassifying them as non-glacial mass flows that are supposedly compatible with his version of Noah's Flood. That means that Oard (1997, p. 19) and Oard (2009a, p. 117) must protect his YEC agenda by emphasizing statements in the literature that give the impression of water deposition and ignoring or somehow disputing those that do not. Unfortunately, Mr. Oard’s efforts were thoroughly refuted by the available scientific evidence in my 1999 essay and, as discussed in this essay and other essays at this website, Mr. Oard’s agenda is still without support today.

The location of the Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) quotation in Oard (1997, p. 19) further exposes Mr. Oard's true agenda, which goes far beyond anything stated in Deynoux and Trompette (1976). The quotation occurs under a section in Oard (1997, p. 19) entitled: “Pre-Pleistocene Diamictites Are Likely All Marine” [my emphasis] and, under this section title, Oard (1997, p. 19) also makes the following sweeping statement that goes far beyond what Deynoux and Trompette (1976) and other geologists have said:

“It has come as a mild shock to discover that most, if not all, pre-Pleistocene diamictites were laid down in a marine environment.” [my emphasis]

Again, on p. 20, Oard (1997) states:

“The marine origin of most, if not all, “tillites” also could have been deduced from the characteristics of the sediments above and below them.” [my emphasis]

In another attempt to wipe out the glacial origins of diamictites, Oard (1997, p. 24) has another inaccurate section title:

“There are Few, If Any, Glaciotectonic Structures in Diamictites” [my emphasis]

He further states on p. 20:

“The lack of glaciotectonic structures indicates not only that diamictites are marine, but also that they were not deposited at the grounding line of a marine ice shelf.”

So, it’s Oard (1997), and not me, that went too far by distorting and misrepresenting Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313). It's not surprising that Oard (1997) would want his readers to think that “most” or “almost all” actually means “if not all” or just plain “all” tillites are actually aquatic deposits, despite what Deynoux and Trompette (1976, p. 1313) and the more recent scientific literature actually say. His dictatorial YEC biblical interpretations demand it.

_______________________________________________________________________

¹So, the answer to the section head “Pre-Pleistocene Glacial Deposits: Mostly Marine?” in my 1999 essay is yes. Contrary to the picky protests in Oard (2009a, p. 117), “yes” is a totally legitimate answer to this question. That is, there is no rational reason to accept Betteridge’s “Law” of Headlines as a commandment. To be exact, a review of Mr. Oard’s books and articles shows that he also has chapter or section titles, where he feels that the answer to a question is “yes” (for example: “Did Dinosaurs Die in the Flood?, Chapter 3 in Oard, 2011). So, Mr. Oard doesn’t accept Betteridge’s “Law” of Headlines as an absolute rule either. There’s no rational reason why anyone should.

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