Henke 2022am

Ex Nihilo (Something Out of Nothing) Creation Violates Natural Law No Matter Who Does It

Kevin R. Henke

September 15, 2022

In Henke (2022b), I discuss the miracle stories in the Bible, where Jesus supposedly multiplied fish and bread to feed thousands of people, not just once, but supposedly twice (Mark 6:30-44 and 8:1-10). This is the relevant section:

“Although there’s no reason to believe that any of the miracle stories in the gospels or the book of Acts actually happened, there are a number of stories in the gospels that better illustrate how Jesus’ supposed miracles would have violated the laws of chemistry, physics and biology than Jesus walking on water or C.S. Lewis’ pool game (Lewis 1960, chapter 8). Mark 6:30-44 and Mark 8:1-10 claim that Jesus was miraculously able to feed thousands of people from a small number of fish and loaves of bread. Although the stories don’t try to explain how these “miracles” happened, the reader is probably expected to assume that Jesus was able to magically multiply the available fish and bread through ex nihilo (something out of nothing) miracles. These miracles would have clearly violated the laws of chemistry, biology and physics. So, where did the extra fish and bread come from if these stories did not involve violating the laws of chemistry, biology, and physics with ex nihilo magic? Did invisible angels catch some more fish and bake extra bread? Well, the verses clearly indicate that there was no time for that. The people were hungry and they ate right away. Did the angels use miracles to catch the fish and speed up the baking of the bread? There’s no indication in the stories that that happened either. Besides, speeding up the chemical reactions in the baking of the bread would require violating the laws of chemistry and physics. Bread can only bake so quickly under the laws of chemistry and physics without incomplete baking or burning it to carbon. The stories also do not indicate that Jesus called down extra bread or fish from Heaven like manna. No, the story indicates that Jesus blessed and distributed the fish and bread that were already there and that the available fish and bread miraculously multiplied in violation of natural law to feed thousands. Clearly, the stories in Mark 6 and 8 are expected to be magical and that natural law even as the ancient Israelites understood it didn’t apply in these “fishy” stories.” [my emphasis]

Lundahl (2022i) comments on the bolded sections in this paragraph:

“Kevin R. Henke

Although the stories don’t try to explain how these “miracles” happened, the reader is probably expected to assume that Jesus was able to magically multiply the available fish and bread through ex nihilo (something out of nothing) miracles.

Hans Georg Lundahl

Mr. Henke has failed to show how the laws of physics, chemistry or biology exclude creation out of nothing by an agent not itself physical, chemical or biological. They only exclude creation out of nothing by agents that have these qualities.

Kevin R. Henke

Bread can only bake so quickly under the laws of chemistry and physics without incomplete baking or burning it to carbon.

Hans Georg Lundahl

Indeed. But these same laws do not exclude creation out of nothing, unlike ultra-quick baking.

After supposedly witnessing the first multiplication of the loaves of bread and fish in Mark 6:30-44, one might wonder why the disciples would be so unbelievably stupid as to ask in Mark 8:4 where the extra food would come from for the second multiplication. Most likely, Mark included two versions of a fictitious story, see Price (2017, pp. 58-59). However, that’s a discussion for another time.

The Law of Conservation of Matter-Energy says that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. It applies to everything and everyone in our Universe, and it gives no exceptions. If Mr. Lundahl wants to claim that an agent that is not itself physical, chemical or biological is excluded from these natural laws, then he’s going to have to demonstrate that these agents (supernatural beings) actually exist. He has not done so. Otherwise, he just might as well argue that invisible unicorns would be excluded from the law and could create ex nihilo bread. God, if he exists, does not have to comply with any one of the laws that he created. He can create bread out of nothing and so what if the Law of Conservation of Matter-Energy says that no one can do that. He’s God. He doesn’t have to obey the law. He can violate the law by making bread out of nothing anytime and anywhere in our Universe whenever he wants. In contrast, the arguments from Lundahl (2022i) are nothing more than shear speculation and a worthless semantic exercise from him. Whether he calls it “adding to the laws of physics” or a supernatural entity being “excluded” from obeying the law, the result is the same. The law can be invalidated and broken by God in this Universe, if he exists.

Mr. Lundahl in Lundahl (2022i) should also probably be very careful when he says “Mr. Henke has failed to show how the laws of physics, chemistry or biology exclude creation out of nothing by an agent not itself physical, chemical or biological. They only exclude creation out of nothing by agents that have these qualities.” [my emphasis] His conservative Roman Catholic masters might accuse him of getting a little too close to committing heresy if he implies that Jesus was not a fully human (biological) agent when he multiplied the fishes and loaves. So, if Mr. Lundahl ever succeeds in demonstrating that these miracle stories actually happened, he’s going to have to say that God the Father did the ex nihilo creation of the bread or fish, or somehow explain how Jesus as God could do the miracle while fully human Jesus could not without breaking the law.

Reference:

Price, R.M. 2017. Holy Fable II: The Gospels and Acts Undistorted by Faith: Mindvendor: Coppell, Texas, USA, 449pp.