Yahshua Came Down From Heaven

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Conceptual Notional Preexistence refers to the idea that certain things existed in the mind or plan of God before they existed in the earth12345. It is a technical term used in early Jewish and early Christian texts to describe the pre-existence of Jesus and other entities. 1. In order to focus on the notional concept of pre-existence, John 1.1 needs to be consulted and analyzed piece-by-piece. “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God” (John 1.1). https://21stcr.org/commentaries/preexistence-overview/preexistence-articles/literal-and-notional-pre-existence/

2. Capes’ two categories of preexistence, “ideal” and “actual,” adequately set the stage for the debate. We may also choose to use the categories of notional preexistence (“ideal”) and literal preexistence (“actual”). https://www.theologicalconference.org/media/docs/pdf/2015/Dustin.pdf

3. In contrast to the Greek view of literal preexistence, the predominantly Jewish authors of the Bible held to a notional or ideal preexistence in which all things of importance existed, not literally, but notionally in the mind or plan of God before they existed in the earth. https://onegodworship.com/jesus-preexistence-a-critical-look-at-greek-and-jewish-views/

4. Some Christians -- especially Biblical Unitarians -- believe that Jesus only pre-existed notionally/ideally in God's mind prior to his conception in Mary's womb (just like any other human being), contrary to more popular views such as that Jesus has existed since eternity (the view of most Christians) or since a long time ago (the view of Jehova… https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/86513/what-is-the-biblical-basis-for-the-notional-ideal-pre-existence-of-jesus-as-opp

5. It’s a technical term, scholarly jargon/shorthand, to designate a motif or concept evident in a number of early Jewish and early Christian texts. In particular, a number of early Christian texts ascribe a “pre-existence” to Jesus. But there is a certain complexity, so I’ll attempt to elucidate matters. https://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2019/02/06/pre-existence-in-ancient-jewish-tradition-and-the-nt/

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Did Jesus Christ really come down from Heaven?

Yahshua Came Down From Heaven

By Voy Wilks

1990 - Revised 1993

"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him who sent me; ..." (John 6:38, KJV).

I have searched the Scriptures at length and (assuming I overlooked none), have found that the Apostle John is the only witness which says Yahshua came down from heaven. John mentions this several times. They are listed here for your convenience:

John 3:13,31; 6:32-33, 38, 41-42, 50-51, 58, 62; 8:42; 16:27-28; 17:8

Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter, James, and Jude make no mention that Yahshua "came down from heaven".

Some believe that every major doctrine must have two witnesses. On this major point, however, we have only one witness who testifies that "Yahshua came down from heaven." Such an astonishing bit of history as this should have several witnesses. But no. There is only one witness - the Apostle John. What are we to make of this surprising bit of information?

Actually, my view is, when biblical Scriptures are involved, only one witness is needed. However, something as outstanding as this would surely have been mentioned by other New Testament writers if this is to be accepted as literally true. From the list above, we see that no other New Testament writer records that "Yahshua came down from heaven."

Figures of Speech

In reading through the book of Saint John, we discover that he indulges in many figures of speech; more than any other New Testament writer. Perhaps some will protest "But John wrote exact quotations from the Master's lips!" Perhaps this is true. If so, the other New Testament writers evidently gave the meaning of Yahshua's messages, rather than the exact quotations. Let us note an example:

"... Yahshua stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" (John 7:37,38 KJV).

Dropping the flowery figures of speech, the real message is: "One day my disciples will receive the Holy Spirit in a most powerful way" (John 3:39; Acts 2:4).

Compare John's report (above) with Lukes report on the same topic:

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children; how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those that ask him?" (Luke 11:13).

Misleading the Opposition

On many occasions Yahshua spoke in metaphors and in ambiguous parables to purposely mislead the opposition.

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. ...Therefore speak I unto them in parables; because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand ..." (Mt. 13:10-15).

"... unto them that are without (cf. Rev. 22:15), all these things are done in parables: that seeing they may see, and ,not perceive; and hearing may hear, and not understand; lest at anytime they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them" (Mark 4:11,12).

Another example: "Yahshua said unto them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" (John 2:19). He spoke of his death and resurrection, not the temple building (John 2:21,22).

On some occasions, even his disciples did not understand his parables, and asked him to explain (Mt. 13:36; Mark 8:14-17).

On other occasions Yahshua answered questions with questions; often, with questions they did not understand, or could not respond to (Mark 11:29; 12:34b). On still other occasions, he purposely made them angry, so that they wished to kill him (Mt. 23:17,19,24,25,33; Mark 7:19-23; John 7:32-46).

Yahshua Pre-existed (In the Father's Plan)

Evidently Yahshua pre-existed, but only in the sense that he was in the Father's glorious plans, and had been since the foundation of the world (John 17:5, 24), {See the paper dealing with this Scripture}. In the same sense, Yahshua was "slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8). Obviously, he was not literally and actually killed before the world was made, but it was in the Father's plan that the Messiah would be slain to redeem mankind.

In a similar way and in the same sense, Yahshua "came down from heaven." That is, he went out (according to plan) preaching by the authority of heaven; that is, by Yahweh's authority.

Since both the Father and the plans were in heaven, Yahshua did, in this sense, come down from heaven. Therefore, when he had completed all assignments planned for his first coming, he ascended to heaven where he was before" (in Yahweh's plan) (John 6:62). Remember, Yahshua spoke in parables for the express purpose of blinding the Jewish opposition (Mt. 13:10-15; Mark 4:11,12).

Every Good Gift Comes Down From Above

Yahshua "came down from heaven." A similar statement reads as follows:

"Every good gift and every perfect gift IS FROM ABOVE, and cometh down from the Father of lights, ..." (James 1:17).

James spoke of spiritual gifts in particular, but this is true of everything, including the physical blessings we receive. Take the lowly potato: we dig it from the ground. However, if it were not for the "blessings which come down from above," the ground would not produce the potato for our use. All good gifts come down from above, from the Father of lights. This truth can be expressed in any one, or all, of the following ways:

Gifts from above, Gifts from heaven

Blessings of heaven, Blessings from Yahweh

As noted above, James spoke especially of spiritual blessings. Undoubtedly, our greatest spiritual blessing is Yahshua, the Messiah. He was in the Father's plan, even before the world was made (Eph. 1:10; RSV; 1 Peter 1:20), therefore Yahshua's coming is a "good and perfect gift from above" (James 1:17). Just as the lowly potato appears in the ground as a gift from above, so Yahshua (born of a woman) appeared as a gift from above. Yahshua, as well as the potato, hadancestors, not a pre-existence, as indicated in the following Scriptures:

David, "... being a prophet, and knowing that Yahweh had sworn with an oath to him, that of THE FRUIT OF HIS LOINS, according to the FLESH, he would raise up Messiah to sit on his [David's] throne; ..." (Acts 2:30; Rev. 5:5; 22:16; Heb. 7:14; Jer. 33:20-22).

We have considered the blessings which come down from above. On some occasions evil also comes down from above - from Yahweh" (Micah 1:12). On this occasion Yahweh brought it about by the use of invading armies who took the people captive (Micah 1:6,16). No pre-existence was involved.

John's Baptism

Yahshua asked the opposition, "The baptism of John, whence was it? From heaven, or form men?" (Mt. 21:25; Mark 11:30; Luke 20:4).

Obviously, John's baptism was "from heaven." Metonymy is used here. "Heaven" an euphemism, an expression indicating the authority of heaven; an epithet designating Yahweh, the ruler in heaven. Yahweh approved and supported John, his preaching, his baptism, and his work. Just as the baptism of John came from heaven, so Yahshua came from heaven. Both John and Yahshua were approved (authorized) by Yahweh - "our Father who is in heaven" (Mt. 6:9).

Other Scriptures speak in a similar fashion, as is indicated by these references:

As opposed to earthly envy, sensual and devilish thoughts and conduct, "... thewisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits. ..." (James 3:16,17).

"They set their mouth against the heavens, ..." (Ps. 73:9).

"I have sinned against heaven ..." (Luke 15:18,21).

The thought is, "wisdom from above," and the "heaven(s): are euphemisms for Yahweh and his authority and his influence.

Even the expression, the "kingdom of heaven," is revealed. The kingdom is notin heaven. Instead it was (and will be) on the earth. However, it is planned and authorized by him who is in heaven; Yahweh, the Most High El.

Conclusion

How can we be sure the above understanding is correct? We can be sure because Scriptures in the Old and New Testaments indicate the following evidences:

There is only one Yahweh (Neh. 9:6; Ps. 83:18), therefore Yahshua was never a Yahweh. See the paper, "One Lone Yahweh."

There is only one true El (Isa 43:10,11; John 17:3), therefore Yahshua was never an El.

There is only one true Eloah (Ps. 18:31; 114:4), therefore Yahshua was never an Eloah.

There is only one true Elohim (Isa. 45:5,6; 46:6), therefore Yahshua was never an Elohim. See the paper, "Elohim: Singular or Plural?"

True Deity does not die (Deut. 32:40; Dan. 12:7), therefore Yahshua was never Deity, because he died (Acts 3:15).

Yahshua was never an angel (Heb. 1:5,13, NEB), therefore Yahshua did not pre-exist as an angel.

The fleshly (physical) body comes first. Only later comes the spiritual body (1 Cor. 15:46). This speaks directly about Yahshua's person. Therefore Yahshua did not pre-exist as a spiritual being.

Yahshua was born of a woman (Gal. 4:4), therefore Yahshua was truly flesh and blood; a human being (Heb. 2:14).

Yahshua was the "fruit of David's loins" (Acts 2:30), therefore Yahshua was fully human - flesh and blood.

Yahshua had the same origin as his brethern (Heb. 2:11), therefore Yahshua, originally, was not Deity.

Man was created a little lower than the angels, therefore Yahshua was, originally, lower than the angels (Heb. 2:6-9).

Moses predicted that Yahweh would raise up from among his brethern a prophet "like unto me" (Deut. 18:15-19). If Yahshua was Deity in human form, he would not have been "like" Moses.

Yahshua spoke in parables to purposely mislead the opposition, therefore some of his statements must not be taken literally.

Yahshua purposely angered the opposition, therefore they developed a strong desire to kill him.

Only the Apostle John reported that Yahshua came down from heaven. If literallytrue, we would expect other writers to report this. Since they did not, we must except this as a figure of speech, indicating that Yahshua's approval and authority came down from heaven - from Yahweh above.

The baptism of John was also "from heaven." Did John or his baptism pre-exist?

All good and perfect gifts "come down from above, from the Father of lights." This includes the lowly potato as well as Yahshua the Nazarene.

Both Yahshua and the potato were here, not because they pre-existed, because both had ancestors.

Brethern, Scriptures indicate Yahshua existed, even before the world began, but only in Yahweh's glorious plan (Eph. 1:9, RSV). Since both Yahweh and his plan were in heaven, Yahshua "came down from heaven." This statement is a figure of speech, indicating Yahshua's authority was from above; from Yahweh, the Most High El.

Come, Yahshua Messiah!

Note: We have more than 60 papers about the non-pre-existence of Yahshua. If interested, PLEASE ASK FOR THEM.

ALSO SEE:

HEAR, O ISRAEL; YAHWEH OUR ELOHIM IS TWO YAHWEHS - This Is Never Found In Scriptures 9/11/2001

"The Glory I Had With You Before The World Was"

Study 7: The Origin of Jesus

Digression 23: "I Came Down From Heaven"

All good gifts come down from heaven! Do all good gifts from God literally come down from heaven? NOT! ;)

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