Embedded Files
God or Son? Jesus Is God? THE FOURTH MAN Yahshua: Did He Pre-exist? Yahshua Came Down From Heaven Can A Spirit Being Die?
Yahshua's Glory Before the Foundation of the World Did Our Saviour Pre-exist? Yahshua A Man The Greek Word Logos Yahshua: Son Of Elohim Hebrews 1:12
The 2nd Psalm - Pre-existence? The Pre-existence Yahshua's Pre-existence "One And The Same Being?" ONE LONE YAHWEH Oneness Matthew 28:19 ECHAD And Pre-existence New Covenant And Sabbath
YHWH Did Yahshua Create? Who Is The Word? Who Raised Yahshua From The Dead? The Word of Yahweh The First & The Last Yeshua Is Not Yahowah The Holy Spirit Is An It
Elohim: Singular Or Plural? TWO YAHWEHS? Did The Father And Son Have The Same Name? Are You A Nicolaitane? Should Believers Be Vegetarians? Voy Wilks On STDs Can A Spirit Being Die?
Who Was Cain's Wife? Santa God Sabbath Church Confessions House of Yahweh - Abilene, Texas TRM Wine Or Grape Juice?
The Name Jesus "Jesus IS God!" Links Eternal Virgin? THE TESTIMONY OF THE REFORMERS The Epistle Dedicatory To The 1611 Authorized Version Isaiah 9:6
The 2nd Psalm - Pre-existence?
Conceptual Notional Preexistence refers to the idea that certain things existed in the mind or plan of God before they existed in the earth12345. It is a technical term used in early Jewish and early Christian texts to describe the pre-existence of Jesus and other entities. 1. In order to focus on the notional concept of pre-existence, John 1.1 needs to be consulted and analyzed piece-by-piece. “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God” (John 1.1). https://21stcr.org/commentaries/preexistence-overview/preexistence-articles/literal-and-notional-pre-existence/
2. Capes’ two categories of preexistence, “ideal” and “actual,” adequately set the stage for the debate. We may also choose to use the categories of notional preexistence (“ideal”) and literal preexistence (“actual”). https://www.theologicalconference.org/media/docs/pdf/2015/Dustin.pdf
3. In contrast to the Greek view of literal preexistence, the predominantly Jewish authors of the Bible held to a notional or ideal preexistence in which all things of importance existed, not literally, but notionally in the mind or plan of God before they existed in the earth. https://onegodworship.com/jesus-preexistence-a-critical-look-at-greek-and-jewish-views/
4. Some Christians -- especially Biblical Unitarians -- believe that Jesus only pre-existed notionally/ideally in God's mind prior to his conception in Mary's womb (just like any other human being), contrary to more popular views such as that Jesus has existed since eternity (the view of most Christians) or since a long time ago (the view of Jehova… https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/86513/what-is-the-biblical-basis-for-the-notional-ideal-pre-existence-of-jesus-as-opp
5. It’s a technical term, scholarly jargon/shorthand, to designate a motif or concept evident in a number of early Jewish and early Christian texts. In particular, a number of early Christian texts ascribe a “pre-existence” to Jesus. But there is a certain complexity, so I’ll attempt to elucidate matters. https://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2019/02/06/pre-existence-in-ancient-jewish-tradition-and-the-nt/
..................................................................................................................................
THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF YAHSHUA
Rev. 3:14 & Col. 1:15
Two scriptures are often used to show that Yahshua was the very first act of creation by Yahweh. Everything else is said to have been created by, or with the help of, Yahshua. Those scriptures are Col. 1:15 and Rev. 3:14. Let's look at Col. 1:15 first. Who is the image of the invisible Elohim, the firstborn of every creature: ...". What does the latter part of this verse mean? Does "every creature" include the angels that rejoiced at creation?
To understand this verse, you must first understand that Yahweh is in the process of creating a new world; "the world to come" as Heb. 2:5 puts it. Isayah 65:17, 18 speaks of the "new heavens and the new earth." Those that rule in the new earth are those who that will be resurrected or "born from above" (Jn. 3:7). Psalms 102:18-20 puts it very clearly; "This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise Yahweh. For He hath looked down from the height of His sanctuary; from heaven did Yahweh behold the earth; to hear the groaning of the prisoner; to loose those who are appointed to death;" Theses people will be created, or born, at the resurrection.
To clarify even further, we read the following in Ps. 104:29,30; "Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth." Yahweh will resurrect the dead through the power of His Holy Spirit. It is said of those that are resurrected that they are created."
The first person to be created, or born again from above, was Yahshua. Therefore, he is called the "firstborn." Since there are many that will be born again at the resurrection, he is the "firstborn of every creature (that will be resurrected)." Col. 1:18 elaborates further by telling us that Yahshua is the firstborn of the dead. This takes place at the resurrection. It is also said of Yahshua that he is "the beginning" (Col. 1:18). This is the same term that is used in Rev. 3:14 which reads, "And unto the angel of the assembly of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of Yahweh; ...". Does this beginning refer to a time before the angels were created or does it refer to the new creation? Some would argue that the word "new" is not in the text. Yahweh has shown us however, that He does not always use the word "new" in describing the new creation. Notice Isayah 65:17,18; "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy." This is speaking of New Jerusalem, yet the word "New" is not used by Yahweh.
Continuing in Colossians to verse 17 we read, "and he is before all things and by him all things consist." As a result of this translation, we are lead to believe that Yahshua existed prior to everything else, including the angels. The same Greek phrase, "before all things," is also found in Ja. 5:12 and 1 Pe. 4:8. Both of those text read "above all things." That is because the Greek word "pro," translated "before." also carries the meaning of superiority or pre-eminence. Since Col. 1:15-18 proclaims the pre-eminence of Yahshua in all things (vs. 18), translating verse 17 as "above all things" would fit the context.
YAHSHUA: THE BEGINNING OF YAHWEH'S CREATION
Revelation 3:14
By Voy Wilks
6/18/96
"Theses things sayeth the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of Yahweh's creation" (Rev. 3:14, RSV).
Being identified as "the faithful and true witness," both here and in Rev. 1:15, makes clear that "Amen": is indeed a reference to Yahshua, the Messiah.
This being true, does this also mean that, first of all, the Supreme Being (Yahweh) created His son Yahshua, and only later created the angels, the stars, the sun, moon and earth, then last of all, created man upon the earth? Indeed no.
We must realize: there are two creations spoken of in Scriptures:
(1) The six day creation of physical things of which Adam was a part; Adam, the first man ever to exist (Gen. 1:27; 2:7,19; 1 Cor. 15:45). Because it was physical, this creation quickly fell into unrighteousness and, as a consequence, death entered; and that by the transgression of one man - Adam). And so, death passed to all men (Rom. 5:12).
Death: the enemy of all the physical creation, and especially the enemy of mankind (1 Cor. 15:25,26). The present creation could be called. "the creation in which dwelleth UNrighteousness."
(2) But there is to be another creation; a creation in which dwelleth righteousness. This creation consist of a new heaven and a new earth (2 Peter 3:13). The Prophet Isaiah predicted the same (Isaiah 65:17; 66:22). The Apostle John too, declared there will one day be a New Heaven and a New Earth (Rev. 21:1). Nothing unclean will enter there Sorrow and crying will flee away. There will be no more curse (Rev. 21:4; 22:3).
"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be remembered, nor come into mind. .... For, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy" (Isa. 65:17,18).
"For as the new heaven and the new earth which I will make ..." (Isa. 66:22).
Abraham and the ancient Saints looked to the future for a homeland, a better country, a city whose maker is Yahweh (Heb. 11:14,15). And Yahweh has prepared for them a city (Heb. 11:16; Rev. 21:2).
Theses Scriptures speak of "The World Tomorrow."
"For it was not to the angels that Yahweh subjected the WORLD TO COME, of which WE ARE SPEAKING," [but to the seed of Abraham] (Heb. 2:5, 16, RSV).
"And Yahshua said to them, the sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that AGE and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry or are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to the angels and are sons of Yahweh, being sons of the RESURRECTION" (Luke 20:34-36).
"So with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a physical body, it is raised a SPIRITUAL body" (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).
Yahweh s planning a new creation; a creation in which the true Believers will posses spiritual bodies which do not decay. This comes about by the resurrection from the dead and the grave. Yahshua was the first to rise from the dead. He was declared to be the Son of Yahweh by this very act; his resurrection from the dead (Rom. 1:1-4). If Yahshua had not pleased the heavenly Father, he would still be in the grave today ... [and would not be Father Yahweh's son].
But he did please the heavenly Father, and so, became the firstfruits of the resurrection - the first to receive immortality; a new creation (1 Cor. 15:20-24).
"He [Yahshua] is the image of the invisible Elohim, the firstborn of all creation ..." (Col 1:15). The creation under consideration is the new (the spiritual) creation, revealed in verse 18:
"He is the head of the body, the assembly; he is the beginning. the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent" (Col. 1:18).
For the redeemed, there will be a conversion, a change (a creation) of our physical bodies into spiritual bodies, thus a new social order; spiritual bodies (people) who are immortal, everlasting, indestructible; incorruptible; a spiritual * society fro the new earth in which dwelleth righteousness (2 Peter 3:13).
Conclusion
In view of the Scriptures noted above, Rev. 3:14 must not be considered as evidence that Yahshua was created before (or during) the six day creation recorded in Genesis.
So Yahshua, The Amen, the faithful and true witness, truly is the BEGINNING OF YAHWEH'S CREATION - The NEW Creation.
* Please keep in mind that the physical is real, but the spiritual is more real.
Also see:
Yeshua the Messiah -- The "Firstborn"
In Colossians 1:15 Yeshua the Messiah is called "the firstborn of every creature" -- does this mean he "pre-existed"? If not, wouldn't Adam be the firstborn? The status of "firstborn" is a result of OBEDIENCE rather than birth sequence or inheritance; and it was the Messiah's perfect obedience to YEHOVAH's will that made him worthy of the position of the "firstborn" at his resurrection.
ARCHIVED From: http://cdelph.org
Colossians 1:15, 16
The New Creation of Colossians 1 (Parts 1, 2 & 3) [DISCUSSION FORUM]
HOPE OF ISRAEL LINKS:
Yeshua Messiah – The “Firstborn” http://www.hope-of-israel.org/firstborn.html
Pre-Existence and the Messiah! http://www.hope-of-israel.org/prechrist.html
Pre-Existence in the Hebrew Mind http://www.hope-of-israel.org/hebrew.html
12 Proofs the Messiah DID NOT Pre-exist! http://www.hope-of-israel.org/12Proof2.html
Who, Really, Was the Father of the Messiah? http://www.hope-of-israel.org/joseph
Just Who or What Is the "Antichrist"? http://hope-of-israel.org/whoanti.html
Page updated
Google Sites
Report abuse