The Pre-existence

Conceptual Notional Preexistence refers to the idea that certain things existed in the mind or plan of God before they existed in the earth12345. It is a technical term used in early Jewish and early Christian texts to describe the pre-existence of Jesus and other entities. 1. In order to focus on the notional concept of pre-existence, John 1.1 needs to be consulted and analyzed piece-by-piece. “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God” (John 1.1). https://21stcr.org/commentaries/preexistence-overview/preexistence-articles/literal-and-notional-pre-existence/

2. Capes’ two categories of preexistence, “ideal” and “actual,” adequately set the stage for the debate. We may also choose to use the categories of notional preexistence (“ideal”) and literal preexistence (“actual”). https://www.theologicalconference.org/media/docs/pdf/2015/Dustin.pdf

3. In contrast to the Greek view of literal preexistence, the predominantly Jewish authors of the Bible held to a notional or ideal preexistence in which all things of importance existed, not literally, but notionally in the mind or plan of God before they existed in the earth. https://onegodworship.com/jesus-preexistence-a-critical-look-at-greek-and-jewish-views/

4. Some Christians -- especially Biblical Unitarians -- believe that Jesus only pre-existed notionally/ideally in God's mind prior to his conception in Mary's womb (just like any other human being), contrary to more popular views such as that Jesus has existed since eternity (the view of most Christians) or since a long time ago (the view of Jehova… https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/86513/what-is-the-biblical-basis-for-the-notional-ideal-pre-existence-of-jesus-as-opp

5. It’s a technical term, scholarly jargon/shorthand, to designate a motif or concept evident in a number of early Jewish and early Christian texts. In particular, a number of early Christian texts ascribe a “pre-existence” to Jesus. But there is a certain complexity, so I’ll attempt to elucidate matters. https://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2019/02/06/pre-existence-in-ancient-jewish-tradition-and-the-nt/

The Pre-existence

Philippians 2:5-11

By Voy Wilks

1/29/92

"Having this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Messiah Yahshua, who, though he was in the FORM of Elohim, did not count EQUALITY WITH YAHWEH a thing to be GRASPED, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on the tree. Therefore Yahweh has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Yahshua every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue should confess that Yahshua Messiah is Savior, to the glory of Yahweh the Father" (Phil. 2:5-11 RSV, Emphasis added).

If Yahshua Messiah did indeed pre-exist, then Philippians 2:5-11 would appear to lend support to this view, on the other hand, if he did not pre-exist, then these words must be accepted at face value, not in an extended, mysterious sense.

Since most if not all other Scriptures indicate Yahshua did not pre-exist except in Yahweh's plan, * it is my view that the words in Philippians 2:5-11 should be accepted at face value, as words are normally used in a natural sense. However, people love a mystery so much that one is sometimes invented where there is no mystery. Let us compare these opposite views.

o The mysterious view:

Before becoming man, Yahshua was Deity, equal with Yahweh (or nearly so), totally like Yahweh in every respect, but gave up his Deity, by changing himself from Deity (that which can not die) to a human being (which can and must die), and occupied a human form. He emptied himself, becoming a servant to the human race, then humbled himself even more and died on the tree. He has now been highly exalted by the Father.

o The straight-forward view:

Yahshua [like all men], was made in the likeness and in the image [the form] of Yahweh. He did not count equality with Yahweh a thing to be GRASPED (ruthlessly seized). Being in human form (as are all men), he emptied himself and became a servant to the human race, then humbled himself even more and died on the tree. he has now been highly exalted by the Father.

Verse six holds the key to the understanding of Paul's message. The Roman Catholic view however, is expressed in this way:

"Though he had always existed as G-d, yet he did not grasp at this equality with G-d" (Phil. 2:6 Norlie Version).

It is not true, of course, that Yahshua was (or is) "equal with Yahweh." Yahshua reported to his disciples, "... my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28; 4:34;10:29; 13:16; 15:20).

Nor has Yahshua "always existed as G-d." On the contrary, Scriptures inform us there is

o Only ONE true El (Eph. 4:4,5; 1 Tim. 2:5 Bethel Edition).

o Only ONE true Elohim (Deut. 4:35,39; 1 Tim 1:17 Bethel Ed.).

o Only ONE true Yahweh (Neh. 9:5; Ps. 83:18; Isa. 43:10,11; 44:6; 45:5,6,18). These are one and the same person, the Father.

This being the case, we can forget the Roman Catholic view that Yahshua has "always existed as G-d." The KIng James Version, the RSV, and and a number of others do not convey the message that Yahshua has always existed as Deity, as does the Norlie Version.

Phil. 2:6. Being in the "FORM OF Elohim" is not necessarily identical to "being Elohim." In this case, there is a vast difference. Adam was created in the image and likeness of Yahweh and we, being sons of Adam, are also formed in the likeness and image (form, shape) of Yahweh. This is indicated in Scripture:

"Then Elohim said, let us make man in our 88 IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS; ... So Elohim created man in HIS own IMAGE, in the IMAGE of Elohim HE created him ..." (Gen. 1:26,27 RSV).

Just as other men are made in the image (shape, form) of Yahweh, so Yahshua too, was made (formed) in Yahweh's image. The Tyndale Version of 1534 reads, "... Ch-ist J-sus: Which being in the shape of G-d, ..." (Phil. 2:6).

This explains why Yahshua was "found in human FORM" (Phil. 2:8), and in the LIKENESS of men" (Phil. 2:7); as well as, in the FORM of El" (Phil. 2:6). Man is made in the image, the form, of Yahweh. Let us now review, point by point, the evidence given by the Apostle Paul:

Phil. 2:6. Like other men, Yahshua was in the form (image, shape) of Elohim. Perhaps there were in Paul's day those who claimed that Yahshua was not really a human being, but was Divine (that is, Deity). If so, verses 7-9 should have dispelled this notion.

Phil 2:6. Yahshua felt that he should not try to GRASP (seize illegally) equality with Elohim. Does this refer to a time BEFORE he lived as a man; a time when he is assumed to have pre-existed as Deity? No. This evidently speaks of a time after his resurrection from the dead.

Phil. 2:7. Yahshua was BORN in the LIKENESS of men (Gal. 4:4; Heb. 2:11,12,16; Luke 2:11; Mt. 1:18; 2:1).

Phil. 2:7. Yahshua took the FORM (shape, likeness) of a slave. Was this before, or after, his birth to Mary? It was only after. It was after he was BORN as a human being that he took the roll of a servant; as one who serves (Luke 22:7).

Phil. 2:7. Yahshua EMPTIED himself. Are we to assume this refers to a time when Yahshua gave up Deity to become a man? No. This refers to his denial of the pleasures and longings of a normal, physical life (wife, children, family, home, and finally his death on the tree), so that he could better fulfill his mission as a prospective Redeemer. There is no allusion to the supposed giving up of a former life as a Deity in the heavens. There is only ONE true Deity, remember. This one true El is Yahweh the Father (Rom. 16:27; John 5:44, Bethel Edition). ***

Phil. 2:8. Being found in HUMAN FORM, as are all men, Yahshua humbled himself and became obedient, even to the death on the tree. This is absolute proof that Yahshua was not, originally, a Deity (an El); because the very meaning and essence of Deity is an indestructible life. It is impossible for a true El to die. Spiritual beings are not subject to death (Gen. 21:33; Deut. 32:40,41; Isa. 40:28, Bethel Edition). *** Deity and death are opposite and contradictory terms. Spiritual beings possess INDESTRUCTIBLE life (Heb. 7:16 RSV). therefore Yahshua, who was dead for 72 hours, did not at any time exist as a divine person (a Deity, an El), BEFORE his resurrection from the dead (Heb. 7:16).

Phil. 2:9. There fore (meaning, "for this reason;" that is; his people {Verse 8}), For this reason Yahweh has highly exalted Yahshua. When? BEFORE he lived as a man? No. According to the Apostle Peter and Paul, he was highly exalted AFTER his resurrection from the dead (Rom.1:3,4; Acts 2:33; 5:31).

Phil 2:9. Yahshua has been given a name above every name. Since many others have had the name "Yahshua," this consist of greater honor that is implied by the name alone, For example: By his RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD, Yahshua has been DECLARED to be all of the following and more:

(1) The SON of Yahweh (Rom. 1:4; Heb. 1:4,5).

(2) The promised MESSIAH (Acts 2:36).

(3) Yahweh's anointed (Acts 4:26 RSV).

(4) A PRINCE and a SAVIOR (Acts 5:31; 13:23).

(5) Our Passover Lamb (1 Cor. 5:7).

(6) The Mediator between mankind and the heavenly Father (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 9:15; 12:24).

If he had not arose from the dead he would have filled none of these offices. Until that momentous event, these were only planed for him - from ancient times.

Phil 2:10,11. Every knee in heaven and on earth shall bow to Yahshua, and every tongue will confess that he is the Messiah, etc.

Objections

Objections may be voiced from the statement above, Yahshua did not try to grasp (seize illegally) equality with Yahweh" (Phil. 2:6). Other versions indicate this is the correct understanding, as can be noted in the following quotations:

o "... he did not regard equality with G-d something to be POSSESSED BY FORCE" The Jewish New Testament).

o "...yet he did not think to SNATCH AT equality with G-d, ..." (New English Bible).

o "... but he did not think that BY FORCE he should try to become equal with G-d, ..." (Good News Bible).

o "Who, being in the form of Elohim did NOT strive to claim for himself equality with Yahweh: ..." (Holy Name Bible).

o "... who, although he was existing in G-d's form, gave no consideration to a SEIZURE, namely, that he should be equal with G-d" (New World Translation).

Conclusion

Having carefully examined Philippians 2:5-11, we see there is no mystery. The evidence does not indicate that Yahshua pre-existed as Deity (or as an angel) before he lived as a man. Instead, the language is plain and to the point, stating that Yahshua (like other men), was formed in the likeness (the shape) of the Most High Father, Yahweh.

Yahshua did not try to prematurely to seize by force a coveted position in the heavens, but awaited the Father's pleasure. He first enduring the sufferings on the tree and, only later, enjoyed being highly exalted by the Father.

"Searching what, or what manner of TIME the Spirit of Messiah which was in them did SIGNIFY when it testified beforehand the SUFFERINGS OF MESSIAH and the GLORY that was to FOLLOW" (1 Peter 1:11 KJV).

We can give thanks to both Yahshua Messiah, and to Yahweh the heavenly Father for their great and lasting love to mankind.

Halleluyah!

Addendum: Phil. 2:6

"Who, being in the form of G-d, THOUGHT IT NOT ROBBERY to be equal with G-d; ..." (Phil 2:6 KJV).

"Who, though he was in the form of G-d, did not count equality with G-d a thing to be GRASPED" (RSV).

Ben Wilson (Diaglott); "... did not meditate a usurpation to be like G-d."

Footnote in The Diaglott.

The Greek word, "harpagmon, being a word of very rare occurrence, a great variety of translations have been given. The following may serve as examples:

Clarke 'Who ... did not think it a matter to be earnestly desired.'

Cyprian 'Did not earnestly effect.'

Wakefield ' Did not think of eagerly retaining.'

Stuart 'Did not regard - as an object of solicitous desire.'

Sharpe 'Thought not - a thing to be seized.'

Kneeland 'Did not eagerly grasp.'

Dickinson 'Did not violently strive.'

Turnbull 'Did not meditate a usurpation'"

Other Translations

o "... he laid no claim to equality with God" (REB).

o "... did not regard equality with G-d something to be possessed by force" (The Jewish N.T.).

o "... did not think to snatch at equality with G-d" (NEB)

o "... did not think by force he should try to become equal with G-d" (Good News Bible)

o "... did not strive to claim for himself equality with Yahweh" (Holy Name Bible).

o "... who, ... gave no consideration to seizure, namely that he should be equal with G-d" (NWT).

o "... did not reckon His equality with G-d a treasure to be tightly grasped" (The Weymouth New Testament Online Bible [WEY]).

o "... did not think this equality with G-d was a thing to be grasped or retained' (Amplified Bible).

o "... did not deem equality with G-d something to be grasped at" (NAB).

o "... did not regard equality with G-d a thing to be grasped" (NASB).

o "... did not consider equality with G-d something to be grasped" (NIV).

o "... counted not the being on equality with Yahweh a thing to be grasped. ..." (Bethel Edition).

o "... Counted not the being on an equality with G-d a thing to be grasped; ..." (ASV).

o"... Not a thing to be seized accounted the being equal with G-d. ..." (Emphasised Bible).

o "... did not regard equality with G-d as something to be exploited" (RSV)

What does it mean that Jesus “emptied himself”? (Phil.2:6-9)

The phrase “emptied himself” is an alternative rendering for the phrase in bold below:

Philippians 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This is a passage that has been a focus, one could almost say boxing ring, for theological debate for 20 centuries and consequently the passage has been put under a microscope as regards almost every word. Particular attention has been paid to the following words.

form
2:6a who, though he was in the form of God, ….. 7b taking the form of a servant, …
~ with the meaning of “form” or “shape” (Greek morphe) dissected.
equality
2:6b did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped
~ for centuries mistakenly rendered as “thought it not robbery to be equal with God” (Wycliffe, Tyndale, KJV) the opposite of what the verse intended.
made
2:7b born in the likeness of men (ESV)
~ perhaps the idea of the translators here (ESV) being that he only appeared to be a baby? Yet the text says “made”.
emptied
2:7a but emptied himself (ASV, NASB, NRSV) made himself nothing (NIV, ESV)
~ from the verb “emptied” (kenoo) comes the theological term, kenosis, emptying.
likeness
2:7c being born in the likeness of men.
~ debate about exactly what “likeness” (homoiōma) should mean.
fashion (KJV)
2:8 being found in human form
~ debate about exactly what “fashion” (Greek schēma) should mean.

Too much use of the microscope?

The problem with these word issues — and the terms under discussion are all of them reasonably straightforward terms in Greek, and in English — is that they distract so much from the main question, one which can only be understood by context and all-round familiarity with the NT message about the Lord Jesus.

The main question is very simple — is this passage teaching that a divine being came to earth in the guise of a man for 33 years, or is the passage teaching that a man who had every right to claim the kingdoms of the earth as (literally) God’s son, forwent that right in order to submit himself in obedience to the saving of mankind.

Compared with this big question the other issues are fine pointing. Is this passage about:

An immortal being humbling himself to enter the womb of a woman?
A man born with God as his Father humbling himself in his adult life.

So, in turn, we will ask that one big question of the controverted words:

1. form

The word form (morphe) clearly implies outward appearance. The following is typical of classical and Jewish usage:

Mark 16:2 After these things he appeared in another form to two of them, as they were walking into the country.

But what does “being in the outward form of God” mean in terms of the big question – a divine being humbling himself before birth or a mortal being humbling himself in life? If Christ is himself God, them to say he was in the form of God is totally inappropriate. Can we say that God himself is “in the form of God”? Clearly not.

Then if Christ in the outward form (morphe) was a divine being — in the outward form of an angel perhaps — then is taking the outward form of first a baby then a man truly the outward form of a servant? And how do the Philippians emulate this? How can a Christian in Philippi produce the form (morphe) of a servant if it requires descending from heaven into a womb?

2. robbery

This is something of a historical issue now, since the only modern version to preserve the “counted it not robbery” error of the KJV is the NKJV, and the error is noted in most commentaries. Apart from the NKJV all versions read:

Phil.2:6 …did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped (ESV)

(* The problem appears to have originated with Wycliffe, in 1395, having misread the Latin to produce: that whanne he was in the forme of God, demyde not raueyn, that hym silf were euene to God; he deemed it not rapine that himself were even to God. Though the mistake was also found in several early European versions as well – including the Luther Bible.)

3. emptied

Although there are renderings such as “made himself nothing” (ESV, NIV) ultimately there is not much difference between the translations. The original Greek word is the most common word for ‘to empty’:

Genesis 24:20 So she quickly emptied her jar into the trough (LXX)

The Greek Old Testament contains other literal uses (2 Sam 13:9. 2Chron.24:11 etc.), which are typical of the literal way “empty” is used in most Greek texts, pagan or Jewish. The five NT uses, all by Paul, and all figurative, are unusual (Rom. 4:14 1Co.1:17, 9:15 2Co. 9:3, Php.2:7) but nevertheless the meaning “emptied” can be understood to mean “made void” “made nothing” when figurative.

The question again would be how a divine being truly “empties” himself by descending from heaven to be in the body of a baby which learns and grows (Luke 2:40, 52). The context again points to the adult life of Christ: but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant.

4. made

The word should be “made”, or “become”. There is another verb for ‘born’ (gennao) which speaks of the act of birth, but ‘made’ (ginomai) speaks of the nature of someone, whether they become (ginomai) that nature at birth, as an adult, or both.

Mark 1:7 become (ginomai) fishers of men

So instead of “being born in the likeness of men”, something at birth, we may be talking about “become” or “made” as an adult process.

5. likeness

The idea (homoiōma) shows a likeness in some aspect: either nature or appearance or meaning.

Romans 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his (homoiōma), we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

It is clear that the ESV translation “being born in the likeness of men” takes this likeness to mean “born looking like a baby, but inside wasn’t like a human baby”, since of course the actions of a baby would not tell us anything. But “being made in the likeness of men, and being found in human schema” would imply something else — the similarity of the adult Jesus with all his brethren, except in one respect, the one respect that matters — he did not sin.

6. schema

The word used (schema) has wide range from manner, character, figure, in the below “present form”:

1 Co 7:31 and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the present form (schema) of this world is passing away.

So readings such as “And being found in human form” (ESV), “appearance” (NIV) and “in fashion as a man” (KJV) are possible. But again the reading is in the context as to whether this schema is merely disguise, camouflage, of the infant birth, or the real substance of Christ’s adult character.

Back from the microscope again

The problem with looking at all those words is again we focus in too closely on the detail and miss the overall picture. What really is being described here? What does Paul want the Philippians to do?

The passage in question 2:6-8 is preceded by an instruction 2:5

Philippians 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves,

which is yours in Christ Jesus,

6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant,

being made in the likeness of men.

8 And being found in human form,

he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death,

even death on a cross.

What does the phrase “which is yours in Christ Jesus” add to “Have this mind among yourselves”? What mind is “yours” here, and how can these things described 2:6-8 possibly be of the Philippians if this is about events before Christ’s birth?

Missing the cross

The phrase “can’t see the wood for the trees” probably never applied to any Bible passage more than Phil.2:6-8. The concentration of the birth of Jesus (and the microscopic detailing and redetailing over the six Greek words above) can lead anyone sucked into it to miss the point of Paul’s example. He’s not asking the Philippians to emulate the descent of a divine being into the womb of a woman, casting of powers, “emptying” or erasing memory of preexistence in heaven, Paul is simply asking the Philippians to take up their cross:

8 … he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

This is the message of Phil.2:6-8. The road of sacrifice, obedience, that Christ followed as an adult is what leads to this conclusion:

9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Conclusion

The conclusion here is in some ways ambiguous. Deliberately so. It would be very easy to state that we have concluded here that because we have been proposing that a passage designed for the Philippians to emulate could only be about Christ “emptying himself” in his adult life, not “emptying himself” in the descent of a divine being into the womb, we have somehow demonstrated what “emptied himself” means.

We haven’t. That is not going to be demonstrated to every reader by simply stressing the before-and-after of the passage:

2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus………………………. ……………………..8. he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

For any reader, even the original ones in Philippi, an example by Paul based on the most personal acts of Christ cannot be felt and absorbed without going to Christ in the gospels to truly be convinced of what Paul is saying. This should be the conclusion that the Philippians themselves made when Paul told them to emulate Christ “emptying himself”.

But where were they going to find the example of Christ “emptying himself” recorded? There is no pre-birth gospel of Jesus to describe the decision of a divine being to “empty himself” and enter the womb of Mary. Therefore if Paul expected the Philippians to take an example from that, Paul was demanding that they take an example from imagination or direct revelation. However if the “emptying himself” is the life of the Jesus of Nazareth whom we see in the Gospels, then Paul expects the Philippians to take their example from what they see.

So this is the only practical, doable, conclusion – the answer is not in these words of Phil. 2:6-8 alone, no matter how hard they are put under the microscope. To really start to answer the question: What does it mean that Jesus “emptied himself”? The answer is here:

Matthew ch.1-28
Mark ch.1-16
Luke ch.1-24
John ch.1-21

These four books are what will explain Phil. 2:6-8 in a way that makes 2:5 possible to “Have this mind among yourselves”. And this is why Paul starts with:

Philippians 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,

Because it was theirs in Christ Jesus, they had the example of Christ’s “emptying himself” in front of their eyes.

Pre-Existence and the Messiah! The Messiah of the New Testament is the MAN who undid Adam's wrong. Confronted with the same choice he rejected Adam's sin, but nevertheless of his own free will followed Adam's course as FALLEN MAN to the bitter end of death, at which time YEHOVAH God bestowed on him the status which Adam was intended to have: YEHOVAH's final prototype -- the last Adam! Adam was not thought of as preexistent -- nor was the Messiah; Adam was NOT a copy of a pre-existent Messiah but "a type of him who was to come" (Romans 5:14). Paul makes it abundantly clear that the Messiah is second. The Messiah is NOT prior to Adam -- he comes AFTER Adam, he is the last Adam. by John M. Bland

The following is an excerpt from:

A Question asked @ [PDF ARCHIVED] Hope of Israel Mail Bag:

Most people in the Christian world today try to exalt Yeshua the Messiah ABOVE YEHOVAH God -- something that Yeshua would never do! And there is one scripture that has deliberately been twisted to make it appear as though Yeshua was making himself EQUAL with YEHOVAH. This scripture is Philippians 2:6, which reads as follows: “Who [Yeshua], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; but made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man.” This scripture appears to teach that Yeshua was the God of the Old Testament by implying that Yeshua was EQUAL with YEHOVAH God and thus had been God. It also implies that Yeshua then emptied himself of his Old Testament Godhood to become human. Is this true? Just what does it mean to be “equal with God”? Let’s take a look at several scriptures that seem to support the notion that Yeshua was equal to YEHOVAH God. Notice John 5:18: “Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.” The word “equal” in this verse comes from the Greek word isos (Strong’s #2470) meaning equal as in an isosceles triangle -- a triangle with two equal sides. So why is Yeshua said to be “equal with God” in John 5:18? The answer is to be found in the CONTEXT of this verse. The Jewish religious leaders said Yeshua was claiming to be equal with YEHOVAH God because he said YEHOVAH was his Father. This was the Jews’ perception -- NOT a statement of fact. We say that YEHOVAH is our Father -- does this mean we are claiming equality with YEHOVAH God? The context of John 5:18 clearly shows that Yeshua himself DID NOT claim equality with the Father but claimed the exact opposite. Notice John 5:19: “...the son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do.” Now verse 22: “For the Father...has committed all judgement to the son.” Now verses 26 and 27: “For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has GRANTED the son to have life in himself and HAS GIVEN HIM AUTHORITY to execute judgment also.” Finally verse 30: “I can of myself DO NOTHING. I do not seek my own will but the will of the Father who sent me.” Without dispute these verses show that Yeshua the Messiah was NEVER equal to -- nor claimed to be equal to -- the Father. He never was or will be equal to the Father. Now what about Philippians 2:6? What can this verse mean when it says that Yeshua “thought it not robbery to be equal with God”? Since Yeshua was never equal with YEHOVAH the Father -- as he repeatedly stated -- the King James Version of this scripture certainly seems to be a biblical contradiction: “Who being in the form of God THOUGHT IT NOT ROBBERY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD.” The contradiction can be resolved if we consult other translations. Notice what The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures says: “Who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” The RSV makes it even clearer: “Who though he was in the form of God DID NOT COUNT EQUALITY WITH GOD A THING TO BE GRASPED.” The Jewish New Testament renders it thus: “Though he was in the form of God, he did not regard equality with God SOMETHING TO BE POSSESSED BY FORCE.” And the NIV: “Who being in very nature God, DID NOT CONSIDER EQUALITY WITH GOD SOMETHING TO BE GRASPED.” Only the King James Version, the Catholic Douey Version and a few others say that Yeshua was equal with YEHOVAH God. The word for “robbery” in the KJV is harpagmos (Strong’s #725) which occurs only once in the New Testament. It comes from the Greek word harpazo (#726) which means “to take by force” or “to seize.” Since Yeshua clearly said that he was NOT equal with YEHOVAH the Father, Philippians 2:6 must mean that although he was born in the form of YEHOVAH (as we ALL were -- see Genesis 1:26), he thought it was not right to be considered equal with YEHOVAH -- that equality with YEHOVAH was not a thing to be seized or grasped at. When properly translated Philippians 2:6 should read as follows: “Who, being in the form of YEHOVAH, beginning under Him who is higher, considered it not a thing to be seized to be equal with YEHOVAH.” This clearly shows that Yeshua DID NOT “pre-exist” and it points out that Yeshua was NEVER a being like YEHOVAH, nor equal to Him! Yeshua was never a “second YEHOVAH” beside YEHOVAH the Father -- nor was Yeshua the Creator! Yeshua began his existence as a lesser being than YEHOVAH -- a MAN. And when YEHOVAH resurrected him on the third day -- just as the Bible says -- we also find that Yeshua the Messiah, although alive and at the right hand of YEHOVAH in heaven, is STILL NOT EQUAL TO YEHOVAH, AND NEVER WILL BE! The Bible is very clear on this point. Did Yeshua, as the purported God of the Old Testament, “empty himself” of his “divinity” and become a human being -- as Philippians 2:7 seems to insist? Let’s look at the context of this scripture to find out what “emptied” really means. Philippians 2:3-8 shows the subject matter of the “emptied” scripture to be the amazing HUMILITY of Yeshua. Notice: “Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind [HUMILITY] let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also FOR THE INTERESTS OF OTHERS.” (Verses 3-4). The apostle Paul, explaining what a called out one of YEHOVAH should do to be humble, shows us the ultimate example of humility: “Let this mind [of total humility] be in you which was also in Christ Jesus; who, being in the form of God, thought it not a thing to be seized to be equal with God, but EMPTIED himself, and took on the form of a servant [humble status], and was made in the likeness of man [he was a man like every other human being], and being found in fashion as a man, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross” (verses 5-8). The subject here is Yeshua’s humbling of himself to the point of death on the tree -- the lowliest form of death at that time. The word “emptied” is kenoo (Strong’s #2758) and it occurs five times in the New Testament. In the other verses it conveys the meaning of “void” or “nullified.” Both of these words would fit the context of verse 7 as well as “emptied.” There is absolutely NO REASON to think that Yeshua was revealing a pre-human Godly existence, and the “emptying” himself of his “divinity.” Rather, he was BORN of the virgin Mary as A HUMAN BEING, and (with the help of YEHOVAH’s spirit) had the strength of character to humble himself to allow his life to be forfeit -- thereby being the ultimate Lamb of YEHOVAH, the savior of all mankind. The end-result of Yeshua’s humility is that YEHOVAH “God HIGHLY EXALTED HIM and gave him a name above every other name” (verse 9). We are instructed to follow in his footsteps. If Yeshua was the Creator God of the Old Testament (as many think), then this exaltation AFTER his death and resurrection would amount to a SEVERE DEMOTION, in comparison to his assumed previous position as Creator God to being the human Messiah and Lamb of YEHOVAH whose reward is to gain back SOME of the powers he supposedly had in his “pre-existent” days! Does this sound logical to you? However, for the non-pre-existent Yeshua the Messiah and FIRST-BORN SON of the Creator God, the heir of all things, this would be a GREAT EXALTATION. The context of Philippians 2:6-7 is the HUMILITY of Yeshua the Messiah who did not think it a thing to be seized to be considered equal with YEHOVAH God, even though he was the son of YEHOVAH. This scripture in NO WAY proves that Yeshua had once “pre-existed” as a God-being. Instead, it provides us with another example of the depth of character of your savior -- the first-born son of YEHOVAH -- who set the utmost example of humility for us his brothers and sisters.

The following is an excerpt from:

Who says Christ is GOD ?

"A Refute"

written 1-14-2004

refined August 19, 2011

by DJ. Love, Bnei HaMashalim

Philippians 2:5-6

5 Let this mind (Holy Spirit) be in you, which was also in Messiah Yahshua:

6 Who, being in the form (Spiritual Image) of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God (in Spiritual Righteousness Only - Jeremiah 23:6

Oh Boy, if this misunderstanding doesn't reek of Satan (Source of Human Nature) then nothing does! Satan, who sees itself as the rightful heir of YHVH, has just used its very own selfish influence (Human Nature) to make those without understanding to think that the Messiah desires to be equal to YHVH; but it is Satan (Not Messiah) that stated it would be "Like the Most High"(Isaiah 14:14). Sounds like Satan's false messiah is the "Anti-Messiah".

Also see: "Preexistence Revealed" from the above web site.

Following is an excerpt from:

"Did Our Savior Pre-exist?" By John V. Cordaro:

The Form of Elohim

This brings us to the most difficult passage of Scripture to understand. The key to understanding it lies in your stand concerning the pre-existence doctrine as a whole. If you reject what has been written up to this point and continue to hold unto a belief in the pre-existence, you will most likely fail to comprehend this last passage as well. Those that are not locked into a preconceived idea will grasp its meaning much easier. The passage in question, Ph. 2:5-9, reads as follows; "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Messiah Yahshua: Who, being in the form of Elohim, thought it not robbery to be equal with Yahweh: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore Yahweh also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:" (KJV)

To begin with, what does verse 5 mean? Does it mean that we should have the same mind as Messiah Yahshua before or after his earthly birth? Paul is telling the Philippians to have the same mind as Messiah Yahshua . If Yahshua pre-existed, he certainly did not carry the name Messiah Yahshua. That name can only be applied to the historical Yahshua, not the being who supposedly pre-existed as "the Word." Yahshua did not officially become "the Anointed" or "the Messiah" until he was baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:38).

As a child, Yahshua "waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of Yahweh was upon him" (Lu. 2:40). Even at that time Yahshua knew who he was, knew who his Father was (Lu. 2:49), and knew what he had to do. By the time of his baptism he was so filled with wisdom, knowledge, Spirit, and power that Paul says he was "in the form (or likeness) of Elohim." It does not say he "was Elohim." Yet, Yahshua did not allow that power and wisdom to corrupt him. Nor did he, for one moment, consider himself Yahweh's equal. He knew his Father was greater than himself (Jn. 10:29; 13:16; 14:28). The RSV and many other versions correctly translate Ph. 2:6 as follows; "Who, though he was in the form of [Elohim], did not count equality with [Yahweh] a thing to be grasped."

Yahshua did not strip himself of any pre-existent power or glory. He simply humbled himself and made himself of no reputation even though he was far more knowledgeable and powerful than any of his contemporaries. Instead of glorifying himself and expecting others to serve him, he chose to become a servant. He became like most men, common and unassuming as compared to the politically powerful and famous.

In addition to not exalting himself in the eyes of man, he further humbled himself by becoming totally obedient to the laws and will of His Father Yahweh. As a reward for his obedience, Yahweh has highly exalted him. A future exaltation will be the reward of all true believers if they, too, will humble themselves as Yahshua did.

This study has only touched upon certain aspects of the pre-existence doctrine. For additional information, please see the study entitled "Yahshua the Messiah is not Almighty Yahweh." That study will explain many other verses used to support the pre-existence. Among the verses discussed are; Ge. 1:26; 19:24; Ps. 110:5; Ze.12:10; Mi. 5:2; Jn. 1:1,10; 8:58; 12:37-41; Acts 20:28; 1 Cor. 8:6; 10:4; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:16; 1 Tim. 3:16; and Heb. 1:2. The study also explains such terms as elohim and echad.

Also See:

I recently had the privilege of listening to two excellent discussions. The first was on the concept of pre-existence in the writings of second temple period Hebrews, and the second was on the nature of pre-existence in the gospel of John (particularly in regards to the person of Christ). Rather than explain it all here, I'll let Dr. Dustin Smith (dustinmartyr.wordpress.com) tell you all about it. SOURCE: http://www.ministersnewcovenant.org

Here is part 1: Pre-Existence in Ancient Jewish Thought

Here is part 2: The Pre-Existence of Jesus in the Gospel of John

What Paul is REALLY saying in Colossians 1:15-20

[AUDIO - MP3 FORMAT] An Explanation of Philippians 2:5-6

by Alex Hall

Was Jesus is the form of God? If so, what does that mean? Did Jesus empty himself of his divinity to become man? Join Alex Hall as he explains the most famous Christological hymn in the New Testament.

[PDF] Did Jesus Empty Himself of Any Divine Attributes?

by Servetus the Evangelical

[PDF] Did Jesus Preexist in Heaven?

By Servetus the Evangelical

Pre-Existence of the Messiah and Colossians 1:15-20

There can be no denying the fact that MANY people have come to believe that Yeshua the Messiah "pre-existed" simply because FORGERY in the Bible -- theTWISTING of scriptures -- has taken place down through the centuries! Many scriptures have been CHANGED or twisted by PAGAN translators to PAGAN ways of thinking -- Colossians 1:15-20 being one such example. We need to examine this passage closely and REMOVE the corruptions of the translators.

By Juan Baixeras and John D. Keyser

Hope of Israel Ministries (Ecclesia of YEHOVAH)

Phiippians 2:5-9

By Juan Baixeras

Behold! The Passover Lamb of YHVH, who takes away the sin of the world.

by Paul Sides

The Problem of Pre-Existence in Philippians 2: 6-11

JSTOR

Philippians 2:6-8