The 2nd Psalm - Pre-existence?

God or Son? Jesus Is God? THE FOURTH MAN Yahshua: Did He Pre-exist? Yahshua Came Down From Heaven Can A Spirit Being Die?

Yahshua's Glory Before the Foundation of the World Did Our Saviour Pre-exist? Yahshua A Man The Greek Word Logos Yahshua: Son Of Elohim Hebrews 1:12

The 2nd Psalm - Pre-existence? The Pre-existence Yahshua's Pre-existence "One And The Same Being?" ONE LONE YAHWEH Oneness Matthew 28:19 ECHAD And Pre-existence New Covenant And Sabbath

YHWH Did Yahshua Create? Who Is The Word? Who Raised Yahshua From The Dead? The Word of Yahweh The First & The Last Yeshua Is Not Yahowah The Holy Spirit Is An It

Elohim: Singular Or Plural? TWO YAHWEHS? Did The Father And Son Have The Same Name? Are You A Nicolaitane? Should Believers Be Vegetarians? Voy Wilks On STDs Can A Spirit Being Die?

Who Was Cain's Wife? Santa God Sabbath Church Confessions House of Yahweh - Abilene, Texas TRM Wine Or Grape Juice?

The Name Jesus "Jesus IS God!" Links Eternal Virgin? THE TESTIMONY OF THE REFORMERS The Epistle Dedicatory To The 1611 Authorized Version Isaiah 9:6

Yahshua's Glory Before the Foundation of the World

ECHAD And Pre-existence

Jesus Born of a Virgin?

Conceptual Notional Preexistence refers to the idea that certain things existed in the mind or plan of God before they existed in the earth12345. It is a technical term used in early Jewish and early Christian texts to describe the pre-existence of Jesus and other entities. 1. In order to focus on the notional concept of pre-existence, John 1.1 needs to be consulted and analyzed piece-by-piece. “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God” (John 1.1). https://21stcr.org/commentaries/preexistence-overview/preexistence-articles/literal-and-notional-pre-existence/

2. Capes’ two categories of preexistence, “ideal” and “actual,” adequately set the stage for the debate. We may also choose to use the categories of notional preexistence (“ideal”) and literal preexistence (“actual”). https://www.theologicalconference.org/media/docs/pdf/2015/Dustin.pdf

3. In contrast to the Greek view of literal preexistence, the predominantly Jewish authors of the Bible held to a notional or ideal preexistence in which all things of importance existed, not literally, but notionally in the mind or plan of God before they existed in the earth. https://onegodworship.com/jesus-preexistence-a-critical-look-at-greek-and-jewish-views/

4. Some Christians -- especially Biblical Unitarians -- believe that Jesus only pre-existed notionally/ideally in God's mind prior to his conception in Mary's womb (just like any other human being), contrary to more popular views such as that Jesus has existed since eternity (the view of most Christians) or since a long time ago (the view of Jehova… https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/86513/what-is-the-biblical-basis-for-the-notional-ideal-pre-existence-of-jesus-as-opp

5. It’s a technical term, scholarly jargon/shorthand, to designate a motif or concept evident in a number of early Jewish and early Christian texts. In particular, a number of early Christian texts ascribe a “pre-existence” to Jesus. But there is a certain complexity, so I’ll attempt to elucidate matters. https://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2019/02/06/pre-existence-in-ancient-jewish-tradition-and-the-nt/

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The Second Psalm - Pre-existence? by Voy Wilk

LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE

Because Ps. 2:2 speaks of "Yahweh and his anointed," it has been said this indicates Yahshua pre-existed. This is a mistake. The reason: There is an insurmountable problem with the chronology.

o What is the chronology of this bit of history? Psalm two was a prophetic psalm of David, written about 1,000 B.C.E. Therefore the kings and rulers did not gather together against the Anointed One before that time; before 1,000 B.C.E.

o It was impossible for the kings and rulers to set themselves against the Anointed one before these kings and rulers existed.

o The Anointed one, and the kings and rulers had to exist at the same time in history in order to oppose each other.

o The Apostle Peter gives us the correct timing of this prophecy in the Book of Acts. "And when they [the Apostles] heard it, they lifted their voices together to Yahweh and said, Sovereign Yahweh who didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, who by the mouth of our father David, thy servant, didst say by the Holy Spirit, "Why did the Gentiles rage, and the peoples imagine vain things? The kings of the earth set themselves in array, and the rulers were gathered together, against Yahweh and his Anointed - for truely in this city there were gathered against thy holy servant Yahshua, WHOM THOU DIDST ANOINT both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, to do whatever thy hand and thy plan had predestined to take place" (Acts 4:24-30, RSV). Brethern, this was the partial fulfillment of David's prophecy in Psalms 2:1-4. The remainder of the Psalm is yet to be fulfilled. Yahweh has not yet terrified his enemies (Ps.2:5), He has not yet set his Anointed on his holy hill of Zion {in Jerusalem} (Ps. 2:6), but he will do so one day in the future (Isa. 9:6, 7: 59:20, 21; Rom. 11:26; Luke 1:32; Acts 2:30, 31; 1 Cor. 15:26; Rev. 14:1). "Yahweh has them in derision" (Ps. 2:4). This was in two phases, evidently: (1) When Yahweh made a laughing stock of his enemies by raising Yahshua from the dead (Col. 2:15; Eph. 6:12); and (2) In the future when Yahweh terrifies the kings and rulers of the earth. Psalm 2:8, 9 speaks of a time which is obviously future, even from today. The Saints, under Yahshua's supervision, will rule the earth with a rod of iron (Rev. 2:27). Conclusion: Now that we have reviewed Psalm 2 and related Scriptures, it seems evident that this Psalm does not qualify as evidence supporting the pre-existence of Yahshua. The End.

Genesis 1:26,27

By Voy Wilks

8/31/98

"Then Elohim said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness'" (Gen. 1:26, RSV).

Monotheism means one. Any person who believes in the Trinity or the Duality cannot properly claim to believe in Monotheism. The reason being, Trinity means three, Duality means two, while Monotheism means one - One theos, or One Elohim, not two, three, or a dozen. Of course,, Trinitarians and Dualists will heartily disagree, but this is fact. This is Truth. Monotheism means ONE. Perhaps a better term is Mono-el-ism; ONE EL.

Let Us

Because the words us and our appear in Genesis 1:26, "Let us make man in our images and our likeness, Trinitarians say, "Ah ha! This proves the Trinity." But surprise: Dualist say, "Ah ha! This proves the Duality of Yahweh." Isn't this amazing? It seems we have a choice. Based on these two little words, we can believe in the Trinity, or we can believe in Duality, all the while referring to these as Monotheism. Amazing!

After this astonishing revelation, let us now look at Genesis 1:27:

"So Elohim created man in HIS own image, in the image of Elohim HE created him; male and female HE created them."

Comparison

Genesis 1:26 contains three plural pronouns. Genesis 1:27 contains three singular pronouns. All refer to the same person - the Creator. If Trinitarians and Dualists can ignore verse 27 with its singular pronouns, perhaps I should have the privilege of ignoring verse 26 with its plural pronouns. I speak lightly, of course, to encourage thought and study. My preference is, none of us should ignore Biblical Scripture as originally given.

Image and Likeness

Have you noticed? Image and likeness are not plural words, but singular; in Hebrew as well as English. Dr. Bullinger pointed this out, even though he was a Trinitarian. Elohim made man in the image of Elohim, not images of Elohim. This indicates the image (singular) of one person, not two or three persons. The same is true of likeness. The word is singular.

A Translator's Footnote (Gen. 1:26)

RSV Harper Study Bible, notes by Harold Lindsell.

"Let us make man. Many interpret us to mean the Trinity, ... but probably early readers understood the word as the plural of majesty, just as the plural Elohim (Hebrew) is used of God to denote his majesty and attributes. Another possible interpretation is the picture of God consulting with his angelic court, the host of heaven (1 Kings 22:19), or the sons of God (Job 1:6)." (Emphasis added).

It is interesting to note that Harold Lindsell believed in the Trinity, indicated by his note on Mt. 28:19, nevertheless he realized Gen. 1:26 does not promote the Trinity. He spoke of "early readers" who understood the word as the plural of majesty. "Early readers" would be the Saints of antiquity and the disciples of the first century C.E. who had no knowledge of Duality or Trinity (See The Christian Doctrine of God, Vol. 1, by the noted Theologian, Emil Brunner, pages 205-237; published by Westminister Press, Philadelphia, 1946).

The Reference: 1st Kings 22:19

When we consult the reference given by Mr. Lindsell (2 Kings 22:19), we see that his point is certainly worth considering:

"And Micaiah said, 'Therefore hear the word of Yahweh: I saw Yahweh sitting on his throne, and all of the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; and Yahweh said,

"'Who will entice Ahab that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-Gilead?' And one said one thing and another said another. Then a spirit came forward and stood before Yahweh, saying, 'I will entice him.' And Yahweh said to him, 'By what means?'

"'I will go forth and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all of his prophets.' And he said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go forth and do so.'

"Now therefore behold, Yahweh has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; Yahweh has spoken evil concerning you" (1 Kings 22:19-22, RSV).

We see that Yahweh consulted with his celestial court on this occasion. He may have done the same in the beginning (Gen. 1:26). His celestial court consisted of the following:

(1) Yahweh

(2) The angels. Note Yahshua was never an angel (Heb. 1:5,13).

(3) The living creatures (the living beasts); that is, the Cherubim.

(4) No one else was present, apparently.

Footnote, Genesis 1:26

New English Bible

"The plural us (Gen. 3:22; 11:7) may be a majestic plural, or else refer to minor divine beings thought to surround God, like the courtiers of a human king (1 Kings 22:19-22)."

Only One Yahweh & Only One True El

Since there is only one Yahweh and only one true El (Deut. 6:4; Neh. 9:6; John 17:3), this confirms Yahshua was not present in the beginning (1) as the Creator, or (2) as a second Yahweh (Gen. 1:26); nor was he present in the days of Ahab (1 Kings 22:19).

"To you it was shown, that you might know that Yahweh is Elohim; there is no other besides HIM. ... know therefore this day, and lay it to your heart, that Yahweh is Elohim in heaven above and on earth beneath; there is no other" (Deut. 4:35,39, RSV).

Deut. 6:4

Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our Elohim is ONE Yahweh, ..." (Deut. 6:4).

One is translated from the Hebrew word echad, equal in every respect to the English word, one. Echad is a cardinal number, meaning one as in one, two, three, etc. A cardinal number establishes how many, whereas an ordinal number establishes a place in a sequence, such as first, second, third, etc. Yahweh is not first among several. Instead, he is the ONE true El; the ONLY Yahweh who exist (2 Sam. 22:32; Ps. 83:18; Isa. 43:10; 44:6; 45:5,6,21,22; Mark 12:28-32; Luke 18:19; Rev. 15:4).

There are more than sixty Scriptures which declare there is one Yahweh; one true Elohim so, is it rational to ignore 60 Scriptures in preference to three little words in Genesis 1:26?

Conclusion

Since there are more than sixty Scriptures which declare there is one Yahweh, the evidence indicates we must accept the three plural pronouns in Genesis 1:26 as Mr. Lindsell suggested:

(1) As the plural of majesty, not as a plurality of persons; a plurality of Deities, or

(2) Accept the view that the only Yahweh who exists consulted with his Angelic Court, as illustrated in 2 Kings 22:19.

Scriptures do not support the doctrine of the Trinity, neither do they support the doctrine of Duality of Deities. Scriptures teach Monotheism; One Yahweh - One true El.

"You believe that Yahweh is one; you do well; the demons believe also, and tremble" (James 2:19).

"TELL US"

Isaiah 41:21-26

By Voy Wilks

3/26/99

Throughout the Scriptures most references to Yahweh use singular pronouns; I, me, my, mine, he, him, his, etc. Why is this? The answer is, Yahweh truly is ONE, so naturally, singular pronouns are associated with Yahweh, the El, of Israel.

"Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our Elohim is one Yahweh: ... (Deut. 6:4, KJV).

"Ye [Israel, Verse 1] are my witnesses, saith Yahweh, and my servant whom I have chosen, that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no El formed, neither shall there be ANY AFTER ME. I, even I am Yahweh; and beside me there is no savior" (Isa. 43:10,11).

In a few references, however, Scriptures do use plural pronouns, even when the One Yahweh is spoken of. There is an explanation for each, as in the following quotation:

"Produce your cause, saith Yahweh; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the king of Jacob. Let them bring them forth, and show US what shall happen: let them show the former things, what they be, that WE may consider them, or declare to US things for to come. Show the things that are to come hereafter that WE may know that ye are gods: ye, do good, or do evil, that WE may be dismayed and behold it together. ...

"Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work is nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you. I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon mortar, and as the potter treadeth clay. Who hath declared from the beginning, that WE may know? And before time, that WE may say, He is righteous? there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words" (Isa. 41:21-26, KJV).

In these verses, us and we are used several times in connection with the one Yahweh. Why is this?

o Some might claim these verses support the doctrine of the Trinity. But no. The Trinity is a false doctrine. It is not true. As noted above, there is only ONE El. "Before me, no El was formed, neither shall there be [any] after me" (Isa. 43:10).

o Some might claim these verses support the doctrine of the Twinity (the Duality); two Els, two Yahwehs. But no. We have just found that Yahweh is one Yahweh. THERE IS NO OTHER (Deut. 6:4). "Before me, no El was formed nor shall there be any after me" (Isa. 43:10, RSV).

What, then, can we say about these plural pronouns in reference to Yahweh? Long ago, wise men reported we shuld notice the context; note the general message before, in, and after the verse being studied, Therefore, let us do so at this time. Go back to verse one of Isaiah 41.

"Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; let them speak: let US come near together to judgment" (Isa. 41:1).

We see that Yahweh calls to the people of the Coast Lands. "Let us meet together." Both Yahweh and the peoples of the Coast Lands.

In the verses which follow, Yahweh reveals to his listeners some of his majestic deeds. Idolaters, on the other hand, encourage each other in the creation of and worship to their idols (Isa. 41:5-7).

Now note: The Most High brings Israel into the picture, and reassures his chosen people of his continuing love. "You are my servant. Have no fear. I will help you" (Isa. 41:8-20).

So we now have THREE PARTIES: (1) Yahweh, (2) Israel, and (3) those who worship idols. Yahweh and Israel stand together. And what happens?

Set forth your case (you idolaters). Give proof of your power. Your great deeds. Tell US: (Us = Yahweh, Israel, and the gathered idolaters). Tell us what is to happen. Declare to us who are assembled here the things which will come to pass hereafter, so we will know you are gods. Yahweh's summation is,

"Behold, they (the idols) are all a delusion; their works are nothing; their molten images are empty wind" (Isa. 41:29, RSV).

Helpful Quotations From Other Versions

o "Present your case, ..." (Isa. 41:21, Berkeley Version). Footnote: "In verses 1-4 worshipers of idols are addressed; in verses 21-24 the idols are challenged."

o "Listen ... come now and speak, ... The court is ready for your case" (Isa. 41:1, TLB).

o "Elohim says, be silent and listen to me, you distant lands. Get ready to present your case in court: you will have your chance to speak" (Isa. 41:1, Good News Bible); and verse 21: "Yahweh the king of Israel has this to say, you gods of the nations, present your case. Bring the best arguments you have. ... Explain to the court the things of the past, ..."

Conclusion

It is significant that none of these versions refer to Isa. 41 as a support for the Trinity. This is true of reference books, also, which were consulted. They were to honest to claim this verse supports the Trinity or the Duality.

In reviewing Isaiah chapter 41, we see clearly, in the use of us and we, there is no allusion to a Trinity or a Duality of Deities. Instead, symbolically at least, Yahweh challenged the peoples of distant lands to meet with him and his people Israel for a face to face encounter; a court session:

"Let US decide for once and for all time about these idols: Do they have power to do good, to do evil, or to predict the future? No. They are as empty wind" (paraphrase).

Yahweh, the one, true El has this power. He can predict, then make it come to pass. He can also bring salvation. Idols can do nothing.

Also see:

Elohim - Singular Or Plural?

“Let us” in Genesis 1:26 is NOT the Trinity

The Bible Answer Stand Ministry

Genesis 1:26 and the Hebrew Noun 'Elohim'

Is it really “uni-plural”?

Does the phrase, "Let us make man in our image," indicate plurality of persons involved in creation?

By Robert A. Sabin

[PDF] Let US Make Man, in OUR Image

What is the meaning of God said: "Let us make man in our image ..."?

Jews for Judaism