Meeting with the Diocese, 26th November 2009
Present: Andrew Robinson (Diocesan Secretary & Chief Executive), Susan Beckett (Diocesan HR Manager), Tom Tarling (Chaplaincy Assistant), John Wheatley (Student), Robin Wilson (Student; Minutes), Ruth Snook (Alumna)
(All direct quotes in this document are from Andrew Robinson, unless otherwise stated)
The meeting opened in prayer
The general situation was outlined:
• The diocese has a £1.6m budget shortfall because it hasn't collected the amount of money it needs. There has been an approximately 8-9% income shortfall over the last decade. This has got worse recently because of the recession.
• 90% of the diocesan budget goes on people, therefore that is the only place that they can make real savings
• 32 options have been proposed as to where to make savings, and these are discussed in a 60-page options booklet. These were discussed by the Bishop's Council and now the proposals are to be put before the Diocesan Synod.
• The budget this year is based on net expenditure rather than gross expenditure. This means that things are slightly different this year, compared to previous years. In previous years if money had been provided from outside the church then they would not have been allowed to spend it on something like the chaplaincy, as they would be going out of their budget as defined by gross expenditure. However, with this budget if alternative sources of funding appear, they can be used by the diocese.
Winchester Deanery's website was referred to as “unhelpful”. The main document is not allowed to be shared as it is confidential to the Synod, particularly as it has implications for peoples jobs and therefore their lives.
“There is a need to review how chaplaincy is funded”. For example, Portsmouth University funds the chaplaincy itself, but Southampton don't seem keen on this as they are a “secular university”. The diocese will be looking for external sources of funding from sources such as their eccumenical partners.
“We are not talking about withdrawing chaplaincy support at the University of Southampton”, and “the university are very keen to see how much they can help”. It was mentioned that the Free Church Chaplaincy Committee have funding for a half-time chaplain, but do not have a person to fill that post.
The diocese suggested that they might be able to provide the chaplain's house, but that other people might be able to fund the chaplain's salary. Overall it costs around £63,000 to run the chaplaincy. The diocese felt that this had brought the challenge properly to the table, and it can now be discussed fully, although they pointed out that this discussion will take months.
The diocese stated that it was “absolutely untrue” about Simon being made homeless. They assured us that if it came to that the Bishop would give him a new post: for example there are 23 vacancies in local parishes. Ruth stated that it was ludicrous that they could move Simon to a parish and fund him there, but couldn't fund him at the chaplaincy. Andrew Robinson explained that the diocese was allocated a certain number of stipendiary clergy by the national Church of England. This is known as the “Sheffield Allocation”, and is designed to stop all of the clergy gravitating to the wealthy and well populated parts of Britain. The Diocese of Winchester has been informed that they need to reduce their clergy by 37 people by 2017. They also pointed out that someone entering training for ministry now would not be fully deployable for around ten years.
Various alternative forms of funding for the chaplaincy were suggested. The idea of a shared chaplain with other universities, or other parishes was suggested. Ruth stated that a full-time chaplain was important, and Tom asked the diocese to consider the funding of a Protestant chaplain: partly by the CofE and partly by the Free Church. The diocese responded that they are “open to these discussions”, and that they realise the importance of chaplaincy (“there is nothing that we are cutting that we don't think is important”).
Andrew also emphasised that the post was not to cease, just the funding, and noted that “we are still in the development process”.
Ruth and Robin commented that the lack of transparency about the budget recommendations has made it easy for wrong information to be spread, and has lead to some of the problems. The diocese responded that it was impossible to make it public because of the fact that it influences people's jobs and lives.
The diocese stated that “we are very encouraged that the students have shown their support”, adding, “it's great”. They pointed out that they are fully aware of the importance of chaplaincy, and noted that the Bishop of Southampton is the national voice on these issues. They reiterated that “we are not saying that we're going to disengage with the University of Southampton Chaplaincy”. They noted that the idea of a Protestant Chaplain may be a good way forward.
They also noted that the “best way of doing chaplaincy is how it is being done at the moment”. The students suggested that it would good if a delegation of students could be involved in the discussions about the future form of chaplaincy. The diocese agreed, and said that they would allow a delegation from the Chaplaincy Student Council to be invited.
The diocese noted that they have already had some discussions with their eccumenical partners, and that the Vice-Chancellor is “keen to have discussions”. Andrew said “Be assured that I am determined that seeing people out of the door is the very last resort”, and noted that “the full report states that alternative methods of funding must be sought”. Andrew pointed out that “our voice is best heard when the discussion starts”, and that we need to convince the university of the importance of chaplaincy, and not just him.
The students asked that if any changes were to take place, that they should take place in the summer holidays, not on the 1st June as had been suggested, as that is in the middle of the exam period for students. The diocese noted that in the idea case there would be no change which was visible to students: Simon Stevens would continue in his post and it would just be the funding which would change. We were advised to the bring the issues about the date of changeover to the table later in the discussion period.
A discussion was had on Fresh Expressions, precipitated by a Fresh Expressions leaflet which had been delivered to Tom's house. Andrew told us that the idea of the Fresh Expressions scheme was to grow new Fresh Expressions, not to support old ones like the Chaplaincy. He also stated that the scheme did not have money to pour into these schemes, but that they should be self-financing. He set us a challenge to think of possible funding for chaplaincy which could be used if needed and said that even only a few hundred pounds would be very welcome. Tom suggested that an Alumni scheme such as that used by SCM may be a good idea.
The idea of using the chaplaincy building for free would have to be agreed to by the university, but it is a possibility.
At the end of the meeting the planned protest was discussed. Andrew pointed out an obscure law from the 1500s which says that any protest on the grounds of a cathedral is illegal. He also said that the police had not been informed about the protest, although Tom informed them that he had contacted them and had a reference number. He said that the Bishop was willing to meet with us at 16:30 to discuss our concerns if we agreed not to hold the protest.
The meeting ended
Synopsis of Meeting with the Bishop, 26th November 2009 16:30
Present: The Rt Revd Michael Scott-Joynt (The Lord Bishop of Winchester), Martyn Sanders (Bishop's Lay Assistant), Tom Tarling (Chaplaincy Assistant), John Wheatley (Student), Robin Wilson (Student), Thirza McNair (Student), Marianne Boardman (Student), Emma Anthony (Student)
The meeting opened with handshakes and the offer of tea and coffee.
The Bishop first asked us to start at the very beginning and to explain why we had done what we'd done. We explained that we had found out, and felt very emotional about the possible loss of chaplaincy/chaplain. We wanted to show chaplaincy/chaplain's importance to the diocese. His view was that he understood why we'd done what we'd done but thought that we were partially misinformed. However, he did think that our expression of support for the chaplain and chaplaincy was good, and showed that it was important to us. This he was “grateful for”.
He then apologised for the phrase “not core business”, which had been used in the report. He had obviously noticed that we'd quoted this in the earlier meeting with the diocese. He said that it was not meant to be in the document, and it should have been taken out on the 2nd draft. He said it was not meant and should not have been there. He apologised unreservedly for this. We presented him with the petition and he said that he would read it, and pass it to others to read. He also informed us that he was pleased that we had called off the protest, and was glad that we were planning to do it sensibly.
He agreed with us that having a number of local vicars come in for a few days a week would not be sufficient. He agreed that a full-time chaplain was needed for continuity for the students. He said that he couldn't comment much on the outcome of the vote on Saturday as he did not want to prejudge the vote. He also reassured us (like Andrew earlier in the morning) that the vote was not just a yes/no vote, but that there would be various modifications proposed, and there would be much discussion.
We emphasised the importance of chaplaincy on both religious and support grounds, for example its help to people with disabilities. Tom commented that he may have blown his chances for ordination by organising this protest, but the bishop stated he had not annoyed him, and even if it he had then it would be unprofessional of him to not support him for ordination.
At the end of the meeting Robin Wilson (as secretary of CSC) gave his contact details to the Bishop's Secretary. He agreed to contact us after the meeting on Saturday to let us know what the next step is, and also to contact us when it is sensible for a delegation from CSC to become involved.
The meeting closed in prayer.