Embedded Files
During World War 2 the Nazi soldiers besides their rifles had also cameras handy and made a lot of photos of the conquered territories. Such pictures were banned in Soviet Russia because they didn’t fit in the official agenda. According to Soviet propaganda Nazis were not much better than wild dangerous animals killing and torturing civilians and burning down every village they enter. Later, after the collapse of USSR some amount of evidence started arriving from abroad to Russia, showing that it was not so bad under the short German rule for the Russian people, some really enjoyed some freedoms they didn’t have under the Soviet rule. Like on the top picture people depicted throwing rocks at the Lenin monument. Also private property was restored and people could compete freely opening some businesses. Still such talks are not welcomed in modern Russia too because practically every Russian family has someone who was killed as a soldier during WW2 and accepting the fact that it was not so bad under the Nazis means to somehow reject the fact that their fathers died for the better future. Still here are some photos from Germans of Russian people and German soldiers during WW2.
Tell us more about Igor, please, before this page degenerates into a new Great Patriotic War!
Mumu says:
Author please note, even Soviet propogand never says – all german soldiers are bustards. Those pictures looks pritty nice, but the background – 27 millions soviet people died of wounds, deseases, hunger or fell in action during WWII.
Piesces says:
What your data forget to say, that many of civilians dies as result of Soviet policy of Scorched Earth, NKVD secret police operations and general principle of viewing people as expendables.
As for soldiers, German soldiers used later to recall in horror how Russians were attacking in open, in tight ranks onto machine gun nests. They could not retreat because behind them were NKVD blocking troops, with their own machine guns, shooting at their own men if they hesitated. The embankments of dead human bodies aggregated around the machine gun nests, until finally the machine guns overheated and jammed. Then the attackers took over. That’s how “The Victory” was forged.
Human lives were cheap under Communists. They are still cheap in Russia run by KGB crooks. (Just like if Germany 60 years after the war would be run by Gestapo officer).
rafal says:
Absolutely right. But hard to accept after decades of brainwashing.
Ivan Mikhailov says:
“They could not retreat because behind them were NKVD blocking troops, with their own machine guns, shooting at their own men if they hesitated”
That’s big and clear and stupid lie, but it is big enough and stupid enough to let people believe in it. That’s the fundamental rule of any propaganda — do not try to lie in minor things, people will catch you on them, better state an absolute bullshit — it will give you more chances.
Dmitri says:
I hate to disappoint you but this is not a lie, my grandfather told me just that and he fought on Soviet side. Soviets really did force their grunts to march on with “friendly fire”.
cynical bastard says:
Note that in Pics 2 and 5 German soldiers are greeted as liberators. Incidentally, Solzhenitsyn concurs on this point.
John from Kansas says:
The Nazis weren’t libertors.
Piesces says:
Define: “liberator (n)”.
If liberator is someone who liberates you from somebody else, then yes, Nazis were “liberators”.
Just like Soviets were “liberators” after that.
The pity is, that both “White Knights”, after liberating the Princess from the Rapist considered themselves to be entitled to rape the Princess themselves.
As simple as that.
John from Kansas says:
I understand your point that the word’s use can be realative, but the objectives of Nazi Germany was not to liberate anyone.
Visitor says:
John, sit down, I have something to tell you . . . .
I agree with you.
John from Kansas says:
…I’m speechless…
Piesces says:
Of course, John. You are absolutely right!
The “objectives of Nazi Germany was not to liberate anyone”, just like “objectives of Bolshevik Russia was not to liberate anyone” either.
Both technically were liberators, both were greeted as such at varying places and times, both had their own objectives, both subjugated other nations, both were Socialist, both were totalitarian, both were cruel, both killed a lot of people … and so the list goes on …
Only difference is that Nazis went down in 1945, but as of Soviets – they survived much longer, and it actually is not clear yet if finally they are down for good or have just mutated into different form and are coming back after re-grouping, only under different colors this time.
John from Kansas says:
…both were socialists in name only.
Piesces says:
I bet a lot of people would disagree with you about that.
Visitor says:
I think John has a very romantic notion of what socialism is. I think he spent too much time in Paris cafes.
I know, I know, John . . . I�m making assumptions again.
Texas1 says:
To some extent that could be argued. Prior to World War II, the Germans had one of the weakest economies in all of Europe. Once Hitler came to power, the entire economy turned around. Leaders from other parts of the world came and marveled at Hitler’s accomplishments and unemployment was close to zero. In essence, it could be argued that the people of Germany experienced tremendous liberation.
Jester says:
That is true, Hitler did mobilise the German people, but you also need to understand the underlying effects of this on the German economy. Stalin also did similar, but again, the false economy of a manufacured prosperity eventually collapsed.
Both sides of the war did terrible things and not just the Germans and Russians, Americans, British, Canadian, Australian, Italians, Spanish… I am sure each nation has a story of terrible deeds comitted at some stage. No country ever celebrates this and will never portray itself as the evil party, but men are men and in exceptional circumstances anything can happen.
The important thing is not to dwell on the events and harbour ill will, but to learn from those events and strive to be better people.
Hui Lee says:
Not matter, just a little part of german soldiers was’t cruel killers
Piesces says:
What your data forget to say, that many of civilians dies as result of Soviet policy of Scorched Earth, NKVD secret police operations and general principle of viewing people as expendables.
As for soldiers, German soldiers used later to recall in horror how Russians were attacking in open, in tight ranks onto machine gun nests. They could not retreat because behind them were NKVD blocking troops, with their ouwn machine guns, shooting on their own men if they hesitated. The embankments of dead human bodies aggregated around the machine gun nests, until finally the machine guns overheated and jammed. Then the attackers took over. That’s how “The Victory” was forged.
Human lives were cheap under Communists. They are still cheap in Russia run by KGB crooks. (Just like if Germany 60 years after the war would be run by Gestapo officer).
illlich says:
“some really enjoyed some freedoms they didn’t have under the Soviet rule”
yes, like “freedom from Jews” for example.
The Nazis had no respect for Slavs, they were considered inferior, they were to be the slaves for the third reich.
Ahh. . . to choose between Hitler and Stalin, it’s like choosing whether to be tortured to death or starved to death.
Moris says:
same, germans are animals
david says:
we are all animals, and those who deny it are simply more primitive animals.
Stinson says:
I remember my grandfather speaking of the young German farm boy whom he captured during the battle in the Falaise gap on the Normandy coast. Both were Luthern, both were farmers, both were fighting for thier country beleiveing they were doing waht was right, both just wanted to go home and be farmers. Under different circumstances they may have been friends.Under war time they were enemies.
Not all German soldiers were animals just as not all Soviet soldiers were animals as the Germans claim. Some were just young men who were doing thier duty. If we can take one thing from the past it should be that human tragedy crossess all ethnic and cultural boundaries and no one group can claim sole ownership of it and no one group can claim complete innocence. To do so is ignorance.
John from Kansas says:
.
adolf hitler says:
TO ALL WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT THE “NAZI CRIMINALS”
1) Waging war is legal means of dealing with a nation that can not be dealt with by diplomatic means. There is nothing inhuman, criminal or wrong about it except of cource the loss of lives in the process, which again by international law is legal (like for example one soldier killing another).
2) In all wars collateral damage in unavoidable. Civilians have died in every single major war without exception.
3) If the “nazis” were so bad, how can over 100 000 000 peoples in the Soviet Union killed, starved to death etc can possibly be better than what the COLLATERAL damage in ww2 caused?
If anyone from other than some ex-soviet country is reading this, please understand: in the minds some ex-soviet nationals people killed by communism simply do not count. Mass murderers are still if not heroes, then certainly great men and whatever horror tied to ww2 is exclusively the wrongdoing of the Germans.
Anykind of conflicting evidence is considered plain wrong, propaganda, or fraud.
Fact beeng, even after some 20 years of soviet rule, after the mass executions of every nonconformist and political dissident, the people hated the USSR and that half jew maniac Stalin aka Dzugashvilli. (Dzuga- “jew”, “shvilli”- son of)
So in your face, red scum. You can`t keep the truth from emerging now, its not the “good ol days” when anyone showing such pictures would be shot as a “enemy of the people”.
Marina says:
Yes, it seems Hitler is still alive.
Columbia Records says:
So is Elvis.
Texas1 says:
He changed his name to Vlad. Putin!!!!
John from Kansas says:
Hey Schickelgruber. The Soviets and the Allies beat you. History is written by the victors.
Germandeath says:
3) If the “nazis” were so bad, how can over 100 000 000 peoples in the Soviet Union killed, starved to death etc can possibly be better than what the COLLATERAL damage in ww2 caused?
Whyn not 200 millions or 300 millions? Where do you get those numbers? Ah, from cold-war propaganda…
Amusee says:
Stalin was not Jewish. Dzhugashvili does not mean “son of Jew”. “Dzhuga” does not mean “Jew” in Georgian. (Nor does it mean that in Russian.) The Georgian word for “Jew” is “ebraeli”. “Dzhuga” refers to a place (and likely to an extinct Georgian tribe that gave its name to the place), but it has nothing to do with Jews. Stalin was Georgian and Orthodox. In fact, he studied to be priest.
John from Kansas says:
Hey Schickelgruber, the Soviets and the Allies beat you. History is written by the victors.
rafal says:
So you see. They are the same.
United States says:
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,
The germans had to learn the hard way and you know what happened to them. “hint” “hint”.
kthxbye.
Texas1 says:
The same thing that happened to the soviets?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
godless atheist Soviets were beaten by warriors of Allah in mountains and valleys of Afghanistan. Your drunken cocaine-using harlot-chasing congressman Charlie Wilson knows–ask him.
Texas1 says:
Wilson single handedly destroyed the soviet empire. This is just another example of how one American has saved the world!!!
John from Kansas says:
[Yawn]
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
please see my response below.
KanuTaH says:
rafal, you must be so fucking exceptionally clever to make comments like that “Gagarin flight is a matter of couple of engineers. But what they have done as a nation?” 1) Together Russian and Western technologies and experience is what made modern space technologies, navigation systems etc, 2) Personally I review the Russian history of gulags as a harsh experiment that fall on Russia as if caused by devil. 3) Soviet Union had about 1/4 of all world’s engeneers by 1970s.
Texas1 says:
Then why couldn’t they manage to produce anything marketable to the rest of the world?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
They did. Have you seen a Russian Kalashnikov assault rifle, or a rocket propelled grenade launcher? They are very marketable. Also there are some T-series tanks and a few missiles around that make very good trade items.
John from Kansas says:
…Sukhoi, MiG…
Texas1 says:
That Soviet technology was no match for the Afghans.
John from Kansas says:
Niether is U.S. technology.
Texas1 says:
It is very clear that US technology has been extremely effective in Afghanistan.
Texas1 says:
Oh you forgot about the russian land mines that looked like toys that killed and maimed thousands upon thousands of innocent children. Now that is an example of modern day nazism.
John from Kansas says:
…or the U.S. made landmines that covered southern Lebanon.
Texas1 says:
If you are talking about the ones that Israel used, then they didn’t look anything like the evil soviet versions. US manufactured landmines never looked like toys. That was something that the truly sick minded russians thought up.
John from Kansas says:
No one can be excused from the use of landmines. Landmines are indiscriminate killers that do not distinguish between a soldier�s footstep or a child�s, between war and peace. Russia, the U.S. and a number of other countries have not signed the treaty banning the use and manufacture landmines. All landmines must be banned.
INDIAN says:
That anti land mine treaty is a farce.
Thirty-seven states, including the People’s Republic of China, India, Russia and the United States, are not party to the Convention.
Pakistan has not signed it as well. New Zealand has but New Zealand does not have neighbours.
http://archive.calm.org.nz/news/News_Nov97.html talks about Boris Yeltsin thinking of signing the treaty.
Twister says:
“Soviet Union had about 1/4 of all world’s engeneers by 1970s.”
Really?
How comes that they never did a decent car design of their own?
I guess that was some evil Capitalist plot preventing them from doing it.
P.S.
I will tell you why there were so many Engineers. As everything non-technical was under strict Party control, people who did not want to get indoctrinated much more than regular level, had to to get educated as Engineers.
Many or most of the professions common then and now in West either did not exist (sociologist), were under strict control (journalist, musician), twisted (economist, historian) or illegal (businessman). So either you joined the Party or went to the Engineers. Or none. THAT is why there were so MANY engineers who did not create anything much useful, because it was not the system to do that.
P.P.S.
Besides, do you like it or not, most of the advanced technology used in USSR was stolen or copied (often rather crudely) in the West.
John from Kansas says:
BS
Twister says:
How comes?
John from Kansas says:
Your statement, “…most of the advanced technology used in USSR was stolen or copied (often rather crudely) in the West.”, is not true. Russian technology stood on it’s own in most cases. The MiG-25 is a good example. Initialy western aviation experts scoffed at what they perceived as a crude design. Later they were forced to admit that the Tumansky engines were not only powerful, but were not affected by the ingestion of debris that is typical of field conditions. The same held true for the “outdated” vacuum-tube avionics, sturdy, reliable and easily repaired.
Twister says:
Ah, OK. Agree. Possibly that came out as misstatement. I should have said almost all civilian technology and some of military technology.
Because, yes, military technology was a priority and had a lot of interesting, superior designs of their own. True.
The civil side sucked completely and out of question.
By the way, I have both fired M-16 and AKM and find AKM preferable because it, while less accurate, is more reliable.
John from Kansas says:
�Zenit SLR cameras. Good quality, performance and low cost.
Texas1 says:
John, it is undeniable that the russians did complete rips offs of thousands upon thousands of US made products.
John from Kansas says:
Bullshit.
Twister says:
Is not.
While it would be more correct to replace “US” by “West”.
For example magnetic tape cassette recorders and VHS video recorder.
And almost every car model.
John from Kansas says:
The Lada was not copied. It was built under a joint license agreement with Fiat. It was one of the most produced cars in the world, the Lada was not intended to compete with cars like BMW. It was cheap transportation.
Mixas says:
I’ve heard here in the US on discovery channel or smth like that that US adopted design of the ejectionseat from russia they had no chance of making anything as effective.
Twister says:
Yes, I remember reading about it in nineties.
I remember USA ejection seats having problems with pilots losing limbs during ejection. Soviet seats had solved this issue long ago by introducing small shields rising at the sides of the seat to prevent arms and legs from flapping around.
Shocking!
Soviet military technology was advanced, exactly in a way that it was simplistic and rugged. The problem was with all of the rest – beginning from home appliances and ending with food, clothes and music.
Twister says:
Well. I have one. Bought it 15 years ago. Low cost, reasonable performance, rather rugged. I would consider quality not good but reasonable by modern standards. Not the usual useless Soviet crap. Possibly because optics factories traditionally were part of Soviet military industrial complex, so the quality of produce was better than Soviet average. “You get what you pay for.” I prefer Nikon.
By the way long ago I used to have two different Soviet film cameras and both did not work. That is – they kind of worked. Sometimes. Somehow. One started only after you delivered a blow to it. Ir was normal back then.
cynical bastard says:
Sure, Nazis were no liberators. But whether they were any worse than Commies (note that same Solzhenitsyn described Russian civilians following retreating German troops) is far from clear…
anton says:
Ёбнутый “интеллигент”, ты кроме книжек стукачка Лженицына, какие-нибудь нормальные книги читал, уебан?
Ivan Mikhailov says:
Да ладно возбухать, мне дед рассказывал, как у него украинцы разбегались в отступление 41-го по домам, особенно западные, уж очень им лучшей жизни хотелось.
cynical bastard says:
Пошел нахуй, антон-штопаный гандон.
John from Kansas says:
OK
Scrat335 says:
There were some businesses opened in the occupied lands under the Germans. They were owned by Germans of course. The Russians were the workers, at least the ones that were not deported as slave labor to Germany and Poland.
Texas1 says:
Like in any army, the majority were just average people with common beliefs. They were not evil, they were just ordinary people.
StefanM says:
I’m german. One of my grandfathers fought in World War II as a Wehrmacht-Soldier one year at the Eastern Front in belarus and ukraine, till his unit got defeated near tsherkassy and he became a pow and forced to work in coal mines in the Don-area. He told me that he saw suffering way before his unit got defeated, he witnessed “Vernichtungskrieg”, war in its purest and most cruel kind. He told of soldiers both sides beating with sticks and nagging the enemies neck in the moment they run out of ammunition, fighting naked in the snow(they’re pants got out of use, as they suffered typhus and its symptome, diarrhea . They took food wherever they could find it. German soldiers were civilized and had moral beliefs, but similar to the red army soldiers they were often week long left with nothing and no hope for supplies, so they took it no matter from whom.
Many of the dead in the patriotic war got killed by german soldiers, but propaganda wasn’t to strong that every wehrmacht unit burnt down every village they captured.
People died few years before especially in ukraine caused by bad management and stalin’s brutal attitude towards Peasants and minorities. The War and production of arms took most of the Soviet Unions economy – may be a reason for the Famine and high death toll in the war time too.
Ivan Mikhailov says:
“German soldiers were civilized and had moral beliefs”
Of course they were… and had…, just not enough to live in peace with neighbour countries. They were not enough civilized even to respect their own Otto von Bismarck who clearly warned to not attack simultaneosly on West and East and especially warned to not attack even in only one direction if Russia is there. They did not remember your own history and got “POOR” at the exam.
rafal says:
But they took their lesson and now live with neighbors in peace. This is still far before you, living in soviet propaganda world.
Justin says:
Yes, it’s a shame though that baltic states don�t want to live in peace and waste no opportunity to have yet another dig at Russia, don’t you think?
Propaganda world you say? I wonder what sort of “propaganda world” you are living to come out with comments like these:
“Most Russians would love the soviet time to come back again”
“I hope they will fuck you russians out of their country back to Asia Fucking criminals”
Is it Poland?? Ah� well, now that doesn�t even surprise me knowing the sort of xenophobic, anti-semitic, homophobic and racist prick your country has chosen for president. So really, it would appear, that with regards to “propaganda” I can rest my case
Ivan Mikhailov says:
I’ve dealt with explosives “a bit” but I’ve never seen such mines made in USSR, or any recommendation to make such mines at some circumstances. Could you please mail me one or at least send a link to some photo from trusted source?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
You want someone to send a bomb in a mail package? Are you a Irish?
P.S. Would you you be interested in a job in nice Mediterranean location, south of Turkey and west of Syria? I have friends there who can “hook you up.”
John from Kansas says:
LOL. Priceless.
Germandeath says:
Germans should be exterminated.
John from Kansas says:
..
Texas1 says:
Can we all just rejoice that a senator from Texas brought down the entire Soviet empire. Amen
Texas1 says:
A few might have been US made, but they did not look like toys, they type that the evil russians built. In addition, this was an Israeli war.
John from Kansas says:
Hi cynical.
John from Kansas says:
No one can be excused from the use or manufacture of landmines. Landmines are indiscriminate killers that do not distinguish between a soldier’s footstep or a child’s, between war and peace. Russia, the U.S. and a number of other countries have not signed the treaty banning the use of landmines. All landmines must be banned.
Piesces says:
I bet a lot of people would disagree with you about that.
Piesces says:
From practical point of view land mines are perfect perimeter denial system – cheap, reliable and effective. So I doubt that they will go away any time soon, or ever for that matter. Cruel though…
John from Kansas says:
@Piesces, “Cruel though�”
and immoral. There is no justification for their use.
Mixas says:
executing pow is immoral… killing as many of enemy soldiers as possible is war… no one can change that.
John from Kansas says:
Yes, the torture and execution of prisoners of war is immoral. The indiscriminate killing of non-combatants is also immoral. Land mines do not differentiate between soldiers and civilians.
vadikgg says:
Really, in the occupation beginning in some places of the USSR of Germans met well (the Western Ukraine, the Western Belarus, the Cossack areas). THAT IS those areas which have suffered from communists.
But nazi terror was much more terrible than the communistic.
Mass executions of communists, Jews, gipsies, and т.д were made…
Shot also for non-payment of taxes.
And, the whole villages were often destroyed even. Here the document translated by the computer:
“15th police regiment, on September, 28th, 1942 10th рота. From the report on actions in occupied point Борки from 22 on September, 26th, 1942
On September, 21st, 1942 рота has received the task to destroy the settlement Borki located in 7 km to the east from Мокран. At night the same day platoons роты have been advised of forthcoming operation. Preparation has begun. The number of motor vehicles was sufficient on September, 22nd to ship and send to a gathering place in Мокраны all platoons and the given platoon of 9th роты. Moving has occurred without undue incident, left out of operation was not. Occasions necessary for forthcoming operation were подготовленны beforehand and in due time profits in Борки. At отобрании a supply obstinate peasants whom рота has demanded are revealed some to punish
Operation passed systematically, excepting shifts of its some stages in time. Their principal cause was following. On a card the settlement Borki is shown as compactly located village. It has actually appeared, that this settlement is stretched on 6 – 7 km at length and width. When with a dawn it me has been installed, I have expanded a cordon from an East side and have organised coverage of village in the form of pincers at simultaneous increase in a distance between posts. As a result I managed to grasp and deliver to a place of gathering of all inhabitants has sat down without an exception. Favorable it has appeared, that the purpose for which the population was driven, till last moment to it it was unknown. On a gathering place the calmness reigned, the quantity of posts has been shown to a minimum, and the liberated forces could be used in the further course of operation. The command of grave-diggers has received shovels only on an execution place thanks to what the population remains in ignorance about coming. Imperceptibly installed easy machine guns have suppressed from the very beginning risen was a panic when the first shots from a place of the execution located in 700 m from village have sounded. Two men tried to run, but through some steps have fallen, amazed with machine-gun fire. Execution has begun at 9 o’clock. 00 minutes also has ended at 18 o’clock. 00 minutes From 809 driven 104 persons (politically reliable families) have been released, among them there were working manors Мокраны. Execution passed without any complications, preparatory measures have appeared rather expedient.
Grain and stock confiscation occurred, short of shift in time, systematically. The number a supply has appeared sufficient as the quantity of grain was not great also points ссыпки not threshed grain are located not so far…
House utensils and agricultural stock have been taken away by supplies with bread.
I result a numerical result of execution. 705 persons, from them men – 203, women – 372, children – 130 are shot.
The quantity of the collected cattle can be defined only approximately as on an account assembly point it was not made: horses – 45, large horned livestock – 250, calfs – 65, pigs and pigs – 450 and sheep – 300. The Poultry could be found out only on occasion. That it was possible to find, has been transferred the released inhabitants.
From stock it is collected: 70 carts, 200 ploughs and harrows, 5 winnowers, 25 straw cutters and other small stock.
All confiscated grain, stock and cattle are transferred the manager of state manor Мокраны…
At operation carrying out in Борках it is spent: винтовочных cartridges – 786, cartridges for automatic machines – 2496 pieces. Losses in роте was not. One вахтмистр with suspicion on a jaundice is sent in hospital to Brest.
The deputy the commander роты the ober-lieutenant of security police Muller
Similar operation is shown in a film “Idi i smotri ‘ (” Go and look “). I advise to look.
Here transfers of other German documents:
Read and do conclusions.
Stalin’s communistic system at all its cruelty all the same was better than nazism as she recognised as equal all people and races. In the USSR for a nationality shot nobody. Captured Germans in the USSR did not destroy as Russian in Germany.
Also, by the way, it is not necessary to confuse Stalin’s system that was to it and after it… Those systems were much softer.
Visitor says:
I’m not taking sides in the renewed German-Russian war, but that translated document is full of fascinating details that illustrate the organized, systemic, deliberate activities of a group (Nazis in general) intent on the destruction of a “people.” Thanks for posting it.
Mixas says:
You might want to watch idi i smotri (come and see) – helps a lot in choosing sides
talking beaver says:
You are again taking Stalin’s system at its face value. It did not DECLARE openly that some nations are better than others, while still implemented that in practice.
For example the most of Latvians in USSR in 1937 were executed just for being Latvians. Of course it was not said to be as simply as that. They were executed for “belonging to an underground Nationalist Fascist anti-Soviet network” and for being “spies”. Where the proof of your guilt was your nationality.
Remember Crimean Tatars? The whole of the people deported?
So at different times many nationalities suffered. It was the purest racism, only in camouflaged form.
Everything was camouflaged in USSR.
All people were declared equal, but then some suddenly were found to be enemies of the people, capitalist agents etc. and executed. Of course for the benefit of all mankind.
Circus.
wowBud says:
Crimean Tatars? Good that you brought it up, cos while glorious Manstein was in charge in Crimea, under his watchful eye Crimean Tatars were let to slaughter people of other ethnic groups. About your abstract claims that Latvians were executed just for being Latvians, then well, why there are damn most of them survived ? Are those the same Latvians that send couple of mercenary battalions to be personal guards of Lenin in most critical time of 1917-1924, for some gold in exchange? Call it bad decision making…
Visitor says:
“Call it bad decision making�”
I don’t know who you are, but I love your satire and extreme irony.
talking beaver says:
Heh! Your President Putin once mentioned Latvian Red Riflemen in similar pejorative context.
As a matter of fact, yes, some of the Latvian Riflemen regiments of Russian Tsarist army found sympathy with Bolsheviks in 1917. Why? Because only Bolsheviks were talking(!) about “human rights” and rights of nations for self-determination. Very progressive concepts at the time. Remember how oppressive Russian Empire was to national minorities. So they provided assistance to Lenin. Why Lenin relied on them so much? Because they were disciplined soldiers, unlike the rest of demoralized Russian army. Of course they were not mercenaries and it was not about gold.
By the way, many Latvian soldiers and officers fought on the side of Whites, against Communists.
Some Russian White officers also found refuge in Latvian Republic after 1918 and lived there in peace until in 1940 USSR took over and got them, like Mihail Afanasyev, for example.
It is incorrect to establish any direct link between Latvian Red riflemen and Latvian Republic, as Putin did. Because at the time they were citizens (well, in monarchy they use a different word) of Russian Empire. Independent Latvian Republic was established later and Latvian Red Riflemen even were fighting against it and even established a short-lived Soviet puppet-state. So Latvian Red Riflemen were actually enemies of the Latvian free republican state.
So all your info about “Latvian batallions” is basically wrong. As the Russian saying goes – “Slyshish zvon, da ne znaesh gde on!” “You hear the bell, but do not know where it is!”
As to your question why so many Latvians had survived 1937 killings in USSR, that is because they were at a better place that time – abroad of USSR in their own country, out of reach yet. Many or most of those who were in USSR at a time (including Red Riflemen) – died. Remember, that Stalin was opportunistic, the killings were carried out then and there when needed. Yesterday’s friend could be today’s enemy and “friend” again tomorrow.
And so on.
Yes, about Tatars. Whatever the reason, collective punishment is crime. Thats all.
Germandeath says:
Crimean Turks were collaborators with nazis.
CCCP sux says:
Soviets were Nazi collaborators till June 1941.
Texas1 says:
Let’s see, how many posts on here were written under fake names?
Piesces
Germandeath
Ivan Mikhailov
wowBud
Mikhailov
United States
StefanM
babachkayaga
KanuTaH
Mumu
rafal
Andi
baltiiski
Fuel
Any bets that these are are just 1 or 2 people?
Texas1 says:
Fake
Texas 1 (... not) says:
More than 2.
10$.
P.S. Technically all names here are valid, because there is no way to protect them.
Texas1 says:
I’m also see here 5 Texas1
Texas1 says:
I did not write this !
Mumu says:
NKVD blocking troops wasn’t effective and used at the begining of war as extreme measures.Later on, when army became more battle experienced the usage of NKVD blocking troop was not possible.Armed and experienced soldiers can shoot any directions.
Concerning Soviet policy of Scorched Earth – same policy used in 1812 year during Napoleon invasion. This is typical russian way of war management.
In your message highlighted that nazy came to help soviet people. But soviet people were so stupid and didn’t accept their help. It looks like germans army came, but soviet were killing each other, and nazy not connected to this developments at all.
Anyway both of us are victim of propaganda.But different propoganda guidelines.
Andy from Indy says:
“…your message highlighted that nazy came to help soviet people”
In 1941 Germans went to the East help Ukrainians, Russians and other peoples BUT NOT Soviets!!! You dump sovok please, don’t mix these meanings!
Germans came to liberate the rest of Slavs who wasn’t yet killed by Jewish-Georgian Commissars or wasn’t yet brainwashed and poisoned by the Marxist’s Propaganda.
And they (Germans) would to save whole world from this fucking Bolshevism…
But, Americans deceived by their Jew-Mason President Roosevelt, saved Bolshevism for themselves. And now this one is here in America.
If you are so brainwashed that don’t want to find and apprehend Truth about WW2 and Communism , please don’t spread your Red Lie about it. Not all so stupid and lazy like you.
John from Kansas says:
Take it easy Adolph, you’re getting spit all over yourself.
John from Kansas says:
I have no doubt.
Andy from Indy says:
Hi, everybody!
First. Everyone who lives at west from the line Kursk – Rostov Don – Krasnodar has to understand a f@cking fact that NO PURE Russians live in Russia anymore! Almost. And 99% of those who call themselves “russian” in fact are the Soviets! It’s a new form of human species which was developed by the Satan and his associates: Bolsheviks and Zionists. We, real Russians call those brainwashed bastards “sovki” and “zshidi”.
And second. To all who hate my people, Russians. You guys must to apprehend just one silly thing. Not every each who can speak, write or read russian language is Russian ethnically. It’s simple – prosto! Just like far not every person who can speak or write/read English is Anglo-Sacks (I mean Brit or American). Right? I, personally, do know a bunch of soviet jews who after several years and even months or weeks of living in US call themselves “American”! But they are not Americans! Nor mentally nor genetically!They are all those “sovki”! And they never will be Americans spiritually. They always will be Soviets – Red – Commies internally. And they are like cancer destroying America. Just like they destroyed Russian Empire almost hundred years ago. They twice choose W.Bush for sake of their chimera: the Great Israel. And they again gonna put on your shoulders, my dear Americans, this Italian Jew – Julianie (or how is he…) or some Blomberg-Lumberg!
Oh – ohh…
OK. I am sorry if some one was offended by my writing. But remember, this is my own opinion and my freedom of speech.
Texas1 says:
You fucking moron
Texas1 says:
I didn’t write that comment but I have no idea what this guy is talking about. Can someone please translate this?
John from Kansas says:
It translates into something like “Heil Hitler”.
inger says:
To Andy from Indy: A very prescient comment. Not many of them here. Exactly that, Russia is inhabited mostly by the sovki, and there are a million of them in Israel.
Andy from Indy says:
“…your message highlighted that nazy came to help soviet people”
In 1941 Germans went to the East help Ukrainians, Russians and other peoples BUT NOT Soviets!!! You dump sovok please, don’t mix these meanings!
Germans came to liberate the rest of Slavs who wasn’t yet killed by Jewish-Georgian Commissars or wasn’t yet brainwashed and poisoned by the Marxist’s Propaganda.
And they (Germans) would to save whole world from this f*cking Bolshevism…
But, Americans deceived by their Jew-Mason President Roosevelt, saved Bolshevism for themselves. And now this one is here in America.
If you are so brainwashed that don’t want to find and apprehend Truth about WW2 and Communism , please don’t spread your Red Lie about it. Not all so stupid and lazy like you.
Texas1 says:
Who wrote this crap go to hell
Conrad F says:
This article is highly unnecessary or even dangerous as it mixes photos made for propagandistic purposes with ordinary snapshots.
adolf hitler says:
Yes unfortunately the sovki (from the word Sovietskij-soviet, shortened to Sovok which means “shovel”) are everywhere both in Russia and in other countries, and where they are not there is an equivalent to them.
Those are the people that believe that if 10 people die for the “right” reasons, they may be forgotten and their butchers forgiven, but if 1 person dies at the hands of a politically oppositional enemy then that is horrible, a holocaust etc.
SOVKI, 8&9 MAYA, “VELIKAYA OTECHESTVENNAYA”, ZIDJUGA STALIN, KOM.PARTIJA, VSE SO SKOROSTJUY 120 SHAGOV V MINUTU IDUT ****NAAAAAAAHHHHHUUUUIII****
maxD says:
It is not a lie.
Read Vasili Grossman’s writings on Stalingrad etc. He was the most eloquent writer on the Russian side and was present at almost very major battle during WWII. Did not get the Stalin-prize for journalism because Stalin didn’t want a jew to have this honor. His writing is above any suspicion. He is describing this and many other horrors.
War brings out the worst in people, and if they are not much [ethically speaking] to begin with, you can guess the outcome.
The russian army became so brutal during it’s march to Berlin that many civilians found the German occupation almost to be like a vacation. Check wikipedia for background if you care. Grossman’s novels: most famous one ‘Life and Fate’. Small introduction: ‘Everything flows’. These are novels. There are also collected journalistic writings available, i.e. about Stalingrad.
John from Kansas says:
I have found the book of Grossman’s writing as a war correspondent but still search for his novels. Thanks for the recommendation.
Mixas says:
http:// en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Come_and_see
Piesces says:
And what about Bolshevik collaborators?
Well, I now the answer … I guess we will just go on with Russian Embassador shaking their hands and issuing honors … Including those accused, tried and found guilty of war crimes, like burning pregnant women alive (Comrade Kononov) etc.
Piesces says:
Was that a joke or you are indeed stupid?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
They are all working on a light system for a new club in Dubai, which has two dancing rooms–one for classic and cultured music like disco, and one for super-techno. As you can imagine, both require many colorful flashing lights, and much work.
dm says:
As an American who grew up during the end of the Cold War (’70s) and fearing that Soviets wanted a nuclear war….
Russian people should know that American children were NEVER TAUGHT IN SCHOOL about how MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of Russians died in WW2. Yes, we knew they were invaded, but the sheer scale of the starvation and suffering and destruction and death, was not talked about in America and certainly not taught in school.
If we had had this knowledge, Americans would have been much more skeptical about the propaganda that Russian people or even the Russian government wanted a WW3… in short, our leaders deliberately kept this knowledge of past history from us to keep us frightened and stupid and hating and fearing Russian people!!!
The more I find out about how much the Russian people suffered in WW2, the more DISGUSTED I am at American leaders and the American educational system… a LIE of omission, keeping the American children stupid for political purposes.
Visitor says:
The libraries where I lived had numerous books and periodicals that contained information about the Eastern Front, the Soviet effort/sacrifice, and the fact that the US and USSR, along with lots of other countries, were allies against the Axis powers. Various US military schools taught “lessons learned” that included Eastern Front battles–not as much as battles the US military participated in, but they certainly weren’t “omitted,” and they weren’t discussed in an environment of secrecy.
The fact that most Americans focused on the Anglo-American effort is not so much a deliberate “omission” as it is natural proclivity of people everywhere to celebrate their own accomplishments. It’s both a celebration of “victory” and an acknowledgement of the sacrifice made by “our people.” It’s not all deliberate “propaganda.”
However, if you are one of the countless thousands of Americans who had your head up your ass when you were a “student,” instead of paying attention to the world around you and the freely available knowledge, or if you are just another loser who now blames his country for the fact that he/she has a loser life, then it’s no wonder that you have this attitude.
As for “keeping the American children stupid for political purposes” . . . while you’ve been out “discovering” the Soviet effort in WW2, have you also read any of the speeches made by Soviet leaders about the West, capitalism, democracy, etc.? Do you know what the Comintern is? Do you think people like Vladimir Putin, while working in Germany during the Cold War, were just compiling economic statistics in preparation of a big celebration whenever the West German economy collapsed and the East gained prominence? What do you think all the Soviet military advisors all over Africa and Latin America in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s were doing? Spreading democracy?
Don’t blame your government/country for your own freely-chosen ignorance and stupidity. Accept a big challenge and take a little responsibility for yourself. It is (or used to be) the “American way.”
P.S. to Boris and John–I’m back.
John from Kansas says:
Do you think the U.S. was spreading democracy?
Visitor says:
Not necessarily. I do not have a romanticized or idealistic view of US foreign policy. The foreign policy of any nation should be to protect the interests of that nation. That is why I’m a little amused when I hear people in the US get all upset over Putin. If I was Putin I would want to strengthen Russia too, especially after what they went through in the 1990s. That doesn’t mean I understand or agree with his methods, but that’s for the Russian people to decide . . . up to a point, unless and until he scares the living hell out of enough people in Western Europe to shake things up.
I think most of what the US did concerning democracy during the Cold War depended on what was: 1) plausible and realistic in the context of the culture of the nation in question, and 2) the “best interest” of the US and/or a US ally, determined rightly or wrongly (and I admit it was a mixed bag) by the people in charge at the time.
One example I’ll use is El Salvador. If I would have been a landless peasant in El Salvador in the 1970s I would have probably joined the rebels. However, if I was a US policy maker I probably would have done like presidents Carter and Reagan, and done just about everything I could to keep the forces supported by communist entities from gaining control of a region anywhere near the Panama Canal (which was more critical/strategic then) or our borders.
Lots of liberals in the US conveniently forget that it was Jimmy Carter, “Mr. Peacemaker,” who instigated quite a few covert operations in quite a few countries during his tenure. Why? I think because he knew more about what the Soviets were up to than his critics on the right give him credit for. After all, a US Naval Academy graduate and former nuclear submarine officer who served during a really “warm” period of the Cold War isn’t likely to be too naive about geopolitics and military strategy.
Eisenhower, Johnson, and Reagan get most of the criticism for US activities in other countries during the Cold War. But, the House of Representatives controls the purse strings of our national budget, including military and intelligence activities. Both houses of Congress and all their respective committees were controlled by the Democratic Party throughout the ’70s and ’80s, and often by the same men for years, regardless of who was President. Most of those guys knew what was going on in the covert world and why, or else it never would have gone on as long and/or often as it did. They like to plead ignorant, but they really aren’t in most cases–at least not the Chairmen and Ranking Members of the committees involved.
I kind of rambled here, but I tend to do that when politics and history is involved. Granted, this is just my opinion based on my perspective. I know others will differ.
John from Kansas says:
That is a fairly accurate picture of how it works. But is a policy of subverting democracy in the long term interest of the United States?
Visitor says:
I started and erased this reply three or four times, and finally decided that about the only way we’ll ever have a good, complete discussion about this is if we are sitting across the table with either a pot of coffee or a pitcher of beer between us.
But I guess the short answer, in general, is “no.” Of course, I don’t include an armed rebellion as a democratic movement. That’s not a criticism of armed rebellions though because, after all, that’s how we got our start.
John from Kansas says:
If you ever come through Kansas City let me know and we�ll have that discussion. In the meantime mosey over to the Forum (the reply function works there), brew a fresh pot, and start pounding those keys.
Texas1 says:
Quote: “Russian people should know that American children were NEVER TAUGHT IN SCHOOL about how MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of Russians died in WW2.”
That is because Russians were insignificant now like they were back then. …Russians are just like addicts, they think that everything should be about them.
talking beaver says:
Of course Soviets did not want WW3.
Who wants war?
Wars cost money and introduce an element of non-predictability, especially if it is a nuclear war.
They just wanted to expand their influence, the power base consisting of Communist run countries and semi-legal Communist sympathizer organizations in other countries, to promote their cause in pursuit of global dominance. Just what Putin’s Russia is doing now.
Why do you need a war if you can do without it?
Of course before nuclear era Soviets were not so picky. Remember invasions of Poland, Besarabia, Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia …
Mixas says:
the most predictable war – nuclear… put a blanket over your head and crawl to the nearest graveyard.
Andy from Indy says:
It because your country (the USA), your government (Congress), your religion (Protestant Christianity) and your money (dollar) under the control of “god chosen people”.
Only this small hook-nosed people “have right” to survive genocide and oppression because of their ethnicity , but not Slavs (Ukrainians, Russians, Poles etc.)
And you Americans help them to spread their control and lie everywhere around the globe. You are sending your sons and daughters to die for sake of their glory and power.
Because most of you, my dear Americans, so brainwashed and and lazy to find Truth, that you will trust to anybody who says your: “Your are great, your are most great, your are greatest…” And this American-Jews controlled media tells your every second this blarney. Your are (Americans) most deceived people in the word.
Visitor says:
It’s obvious you have a large chip on your shoulder about Jews and Christians. We’ll pray for you.
Now, where’s my latest issue of the “Jerusalem Post” . . . .
Justin says:
Wow! From the pure amount of comment that seem to somehow condone or even defend the Nazis, I cant help but wonder if englishrussia has in fact been taken over by the Baltic Nazis.
Of course what we see in the west as Nazism, among the population of Baltic Sates, is considered to be �patriotism�, so I�m not really that surprised.
On the other hand, I am glad that readers will now see just how narrow-minded, deluded, brainwashed and racist, people from baltic states have become under their Nazi governments. I am also glad that more people will now question why these counties are at all in the EU, if they are publicly denying the Holocaust, glorifying the Third Reich and repressing ethnic minorities. Certainly some food for thought…
Texas1 says:
But we are the greatest nation on the planet.
Texas1 says:
I didn’t write that comment but I have no idea what this guy is talking about. Can we get a translator?
eliseizorine says:
i agree with you; its nice to find other people who are not afraid of the truth; unfortunately however this has all been said before & other than mentioning human casualties no one is willing to “avenge the dead”; i propose to start anti-german campaing by first of all , vandalizing german cemetries near st petersburg, the perhaps selectively destroying large quanteties of german properties in central russia & volga and after it should pick up as a wave of righteous things to do!
ps: best way to vandalize a cemetrie is to unearth alot of bodies , they reburrie them vertically half way in the ground and attach their arms together, it will make a nice fence!
Justin says:
Germany has paid for its Nazi crimes. Baltic countries have not! If anything they are now trying to revive the old glorious days under Nazi “liberation”.
Justin says:
No ONE nazi criminal has been brought to justice, on the contrary, they are walking side-by-side with government officials paying their respects to the butchers of the Holocaust
talking bevaer says:
1) Here you are cheating! This is a trick of the standard set.
Nazi criminals have not bean brought to justice in Baltic states (which is not exactly correct, but never mind), in short because these states have been part of the USSR for 50 years and those few Nazi criminals that were there were taken care of by Soviets on timely bases. As simple as that.
Knowing how Soviets murdered thousands of innocents, it is an illusion to think that some Nazi criminal would have survived there.
So let us thank Communists for that and shut up, darling!
2) As for walking side-by-side, see repost from above:
———–
As a matter of fact the dreaded “SS march” (Russian mass media started to call it like that) is nothing of the sort. Although it is extremely (!) extensively used by Russian propaganda since Putin came to power.
It actually is a commemoration of soldiers, who died in war while fighting on German side against Red army (which had invaded and occupied their country in 1940), similarly like Finns did. Event consisted of placing flowers in front of monument of Freedom by their relatives. That is all. The date was chosen for the first major battle on Eastern front with mass casualities (At that time they did not use body bags, they buried them in mud in the swamp). Soldiers mostly were conscripts mobilised by Germans against the rules of Geneva convention. It is rather mean to use grief of people for political revenue. Disgusting even. You would be ashamed if you would have shame.
You might want to look here for some info: Latvian legion soldiers at Nuremberg Tribunal
Quote for you:
“In 1946 next to English and American armies there were founded so called Guard companies. (The first one was called Viesturs company.) Legionaries were recognized as units in no way connected to the crimes of SS.” “Four companies (approx. 1000 men), including Viesturs company, in 1947 took over the guard at the Nuremberg Palace of Justice (!) and the prison!”
“Paramilitary units of Latvians and Estonians in Germany were also working at the Nuremberg Trials (1947 – 1949), where they were guarding war criminals. […] guard posts were located not only at the perimeter of the Palace of Justice, but also at the doors to the cells. Baltic guards were escorting inmates to the walking areas and to the interrogations. […] Only two functions at the Nuremberg Trials were performed by American military police: escort of inmates in the court hall and to the execution (hanging).” “When Berlin crisis took place and airlift for supply of West Berlin started to operate, viesturians were transferred to the forests near the border to secure the most important field storages of the USA Army. After that Latvian guards were transferred to the surroundings of Stuttgart to guard USA Army corps headquarters”.
AdolphPutin says:
You still wear the combat boots in shower?
Visitor says:
John has a very romantic notion of what socialism is. I think he spent too much time in Paris cafes.
I know, I know, John . . . I’m making assumptions again.
Piesces says:
Watch your language, bozo!
At that time “Russia” meant “Russian Empire” which stretched Westwards beyond Warsaw.
If you want to start pealing off all the territories and people conquered at different times, to leave only the “true Russia”, I am afraid that you will and up with Moscow district (Muscovy) and Ivan Kalita – collaborator of Mongols, thug and traitor. (Model citizen of Putin’s Russia?)
ABC says:
BS
Piesces says:
Come on, John! You are overly idealist again!
The justification for their use (as for use of any weapon) is their effectiveness. While they are effective they will be used.
Only laughing gas might be humane killing tool. And still that would leave a lot of moral questions to be answered…
Tank says:
Fucking Nazi
John from Kansas says:
!
Andy from Indy says:
Some information for the poor educated Americans and others…
Moscow IS NOT Russia! And was not Russ’ since beginning. It was a Muscovite’s Land. And until now this place is populated with anything but Russians.
Moscow is a shit-house of Russia and muscovites are not Slavs or Russians. This facts are historically and genetically proved.
ABC says:
@ Andy
Why does ethnicity matters to you so much? Oh, on the other hand don’t answer that, I think I might know why.
Andy from Indy says:
If you know the answer, why do you ask?
Listen buddy, if your own ethnicity doesn’t mean for you anything. If you don’t care who was your mama and papa, where they came from and what is the history of your kin, I know who you are.
You are a bastard!
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
Hello my friend.
May I recommend some relaxing aroma-therapy for you, to soothe your angry nerves?
Just sit back, relax, enjoy the fragrance of therapeutic oils, listen to (and maybe hum along with) soft sound of BeeGees sing nice love song called: “(Our Love) Don’t Throw It All Away.” Here, I will help you get started. Imagine me singing along, softly, with you . . .
Maybe I don’t wanna know the reason why
But lately you don’t talk to me
Darling I can’t see me in your eyes
I hold you near but you’re so far away
And it’s losing you I can’t believe
To watch you leave and let this feeling die
You alone are the living thing that keeps me alive
And tomorrow if I’m here without your love
You know I can’t survive
Only my love can raise you high above it all
Don’t throw it all away , our love , our love
Don’t throw it all away , our love
Don’t throw it all away , our love , our love
Don’t throw it all away , our love
There now . . . you forget all about these angry ethnic issues.
Yours in successful aroma-disco-therapy,
M. Ahmadinejad
Andy from Indy says:
thanks buddy. you helped me much. i feel better. but i would be even much-much better if you send me some herb medicine from your lovely afganistan.
maxD says:
This ethnical proudness stems from a deeply rooted minority complex imo.
Those who find nothing in themselves to be proud of start looking for something else: their nationality, race, a popular football team..
Be constructive – do something constructive with your life, so you can be proud of yourself. Hating others will never lead to anything good.
Piesces says:
Come on, maxD! You are overshooting here!
What is wrong with ethnical /national proudness?
Why should not people from Holland be proud about their wooden shoes, costumes, dams, windmills etc., for example?
Why should not folks from Denmark be proud about their past Viking glory?
That is the way of self-identification of people. If you drop it you get a faceless mass, “white noise”, just like when you pull out antenna of the TV set and all the colors and patterns disappear into gray chaos.
Being proud and confident of oneself is good.
It has nothing to do with “hating others”.
Being arrogant is what is bad. Which in ethnic / national context would be being chauvinist.
maxD says:
In itself it should be harmless, but it is not.
Like I put it, for many people this ‘pride’ starts being a goal in itself. Turns into us-against-them way of thinking.
Something to identify with, nothing wrong there. But more often than not it starts derailing. Blocks introspection, as is often seen in the comments here. Being born Russian or Dutch or Danish, you can identify with it, but actually, in itself there is nothing to be proud of. It is not an accomplishment, is it ? It just happened.
My point is : be constructive, create something which is really your accomplishment. A career, a home-build boat, volunteer work, raising your kid, whatever. Now that is something to be proud of. That is something others can live up to. Being a Manchester United fan or being a Jew: not really. It is just a label.
Piesces says:
Perfect insight!
ABC says:
Clearly estonian, latvian and polish racists have found a new supporter.
talking beaver says:
Hi there summoned, ABC!
I forgot to mention you in a raw with other comrades – Justin, Boris Abramov, Washington, Marina.
I hope you will forgive me.
ABC says:
Why does ethnicity matters to you so much? Oh, on the other hand don’t answer that, I think I might know why.
talking beaver says:
1) I just wonder why they (as so many others) were collaborators? Was that because (a) they were inherently evil or (b) because they wanted to get rid of Communist yoke and saw Germans as their liberators sincerely believing that things may change for better?
2) For whatever reason, I guess you consider it good decision to apply collective punishment and penalize the nation as a whole? Is it not in a way similar to what Nazis did with Jews?
Texas1 says:
Cocksucker !
talking beaver says:
1) I just wonder why they (as so many others) were collaborators? Was that because (a) they were inherently evil or (b) because they wanted to get rid of Communist yoke and saw Germans as their liberators sincerely believing that things may change for better?
2) For whatever reason, I guess you consider it good decision to apply collective punishment and penalize the nation as a whole? Is it not in a way similar to what Nazis did with Jews?
Justin says:
“Penalize the nation as a whole”? Who? Where? Why?
Baltic States are the ones who are representing ethnic minorities. And from comments such as these…
“I hope they will fuck you russians out of their country back to Asia Fucking criminals”
“Estonia 4 Estonians Russians and Jews out”
it’s clear that not only your governments are to balme, but also the racist baltic public. And if any punishment should be applied, it should be applied on the basis of crimes currently committed by the Baltic States, history can remain just that.
talking beaver says:
F#ck you, hatred mongering monkey!
That is what you and your comrades and/or other impersonations have been doing here for a long time!
Get lost, pest!
Do something useful if you know how to!
Justin says:
Nothing to say, huh? Nothing that is going to justify such blatant racism and intolerance. Just as I thought!
talking beaver says:
I was just passing by, so even though I do not consider your comment worth of commenting, I will say this just for sake of correctness:
- As of first comment, see poster’s reply above. Due to your constant provocations you naturally do get emotional responses from people. What else would you expect? Love? Sooner you get a conditioned reflex of people throwing up at your sight. Anyway it seems to be your goal to provoke. So nothing to make fuss about, really. You got what you wanted.
- As of second comment, look into the history of this site. The comment was faked, most likely by yourself, to discredit the poster and use it as an argument to your own political advantage. Dirty game. Was that the way you were taught to construct cases? Very skilled move, my compliments!
And a very personal message: F#ck you, vermin!
Justin says:
Wow, talking beaver is talking about provocation. Now isn�t that ironic when almost every post that talking beaver and his aliases rafal, baltiiski, Piesces and many others post are not only provocative, but are in fact blaintantly racist, xenophobic, anti-Semitic and just plain hatful.
Just for laughs, beaver, can you give me just ONE example of where I have been provoking people? Just ONE – I challenge you. I, on the other hand, can give you dozens of example (many again made by your aliases) which are not only provocative, but are in fact very dangerous, – rants which in many countries would fall under Hate Crimes.
1. Again beaver, your or �rafal�s� comments have nothing to do with provocation, but have everything to do with your dangerous mindset. Sadly, you are not the only Balt with such a mindset. From my observations during my travels I have noticed that in fact the majority of Baltic population hold such nationalist, racist, neo-Nazi views. Again, that doesn�t really surprise me. If we think about the level of nationalist in the Baltic media, combined with the neo-Fascist actions of the Baltic governments, I am not surprised that such a great proportion of Balts hold such distorted and hatful world view.
2. �As of second comment, look into the history of this site�
Beaver, be a man for ones in your life and admit to your own words. Or are you worried that it would tarnish your reputation? Well, beaver, never fear, it has been tarnished a long time ago by all your other racist comments.
The most important issue to consider, whether you deny your comment or not, is that your message got across �Estonia 4 Estonians, Russians and Jews out� and lets face it, getting that message across was your main objective.
And this is my message to you Beaver: You are a Catholic, right? Read the Bible more often! See how many people who you �worship� are in fact Jews. Yes, that�s the same Jews that you want out of Estonia.
Shame on you anti-Semite �Christians�
talking beaver says:
Holy crap!
Poor man …
talking beaver says:
There is a saying – “When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks back into you”.
It is terrible that you do not even realize that your blinding hatred has turned you yourself into THAT which you seem to hate so much.
Texas1 says:
Go to hell you all !
talking beaver says:
Patience, Texas1!
Adapt!
Think of what Evolution would do in situation like this.
Texas1 says:
Someone else is using my name.
Andy from Indy says:
Hey, Johnny! What is going on?
John from Kansas says:
Trying to circumvent the #@%&*! reply bug.
John from Kansas says:
#
John from Kansas says:
…Zenit SLR cameras. Good quality and performance, low cost.
glvoid says:
as a daily reminder please do not forget to read http://www.prophetofdoom.net/ and beware of muslims in general: they are out there to take over the world & to kill your children, and if you dont have children, then perhaps your pets ? i dont know whats on their agenda, but statistically it is something really fucked up and violent, that i can assure you of.
Andy from Indy says:
hey buddy i would give you an address for much informative site
http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/benjamin_freedman/ben_freedman_on_the_jews.htm
look this is some short excerpt
” The word, “Jew,” was coined for a purpose by the people who got us into two wars, who laid a trap to get us into a third one, and who have practically taken over the control of the world, especially the control of this country according to Senator Fulbright and others. So it’s about time that you learned the basics and did something about it. I am certain that, unless something is done to change the thinking of the 200,000,000 U.S.A. Christians, that this country is headed for disaster! There are 200,000,000 Christians in this country who have been brain-washed, from morning to night, by radio, press, television, motion pictures, every media – the mass information has been used to deceive you into believing things that they knew were deliberate lies and part of their scheme to brainwash you. One of them is the word, Jew!
Now, in the Middle East, you know the situation. The United States has been supplying, since the end of World War II, 32 billion dollars of the taxpayer’s money. 95% of that 32 billion dollars was used by the Congress of the United States, after you paid that money into the Treasury, to make the United States the accomplice, the ally, of thieves and murderers; to aid and abet them to hold on to their stolen loot -territory that they acquired by invading Palestine and driving the indigenous population out of the country that they had inhabited for 2,000 years!
Now you were taught by the Christians; you are taught by your ministers, by your priests, . . . You have been told that it is your Christian duty to help repatriate God’s Chosen People to their promised land. You have been told that by every media of mass information, including the pulpit, including every other means by which they can shape your thinking: “That it is your Christian duty to help repatriate God’s Chosen People to their promised land.”
glvoid says:
so … what do i do with this? how does this information stops
chechens from throwing a russian child from 6th floor of apartment block, or stops beheading of serbs by albanians, or saves my german shepard from tatars who cooked her & served to tourists as shishkebab, or my buddy zomber who burned to death in a burned down btr or my OBJ teacher who lost his foot in afghanistan or my country that cant seem to kill its enemy?
can you share a link with an answer?
glvoid says:
andy are you muslim if so you must know that even though people here mostly use english to comment we are russians; we do not give a flying fuck about your jew infested us of a thats your problem now, just stay the fuck away from my country theres pleanty if you to deal with already;
Andy from Indy says:
You are Russian?!
Your are fucking sovok because your are dancing under the zionists music! Look at around if you Slav. How many Slavic people you see on TV, Media, Bussiness, goverment etc.? Who do you see? Russians?…
Dump.
maxD says:
You just underlined your silly-ness. Are you aware of that ?
Andy from Indy says:
And I bet for those names all have an Israel’s or Moscow’s IPs
Am I right?
Texas1 says:
hmm, that would be interesting to know. These names only show up when there is something on here about Nazism.
Andy from Indy says:
this one was a replay about fake names here in this forum
Chadwick says:
TONY SNETHEN THAT WORKS AT VML IN KANSAS CITY IS A LESBIAN
MollyArtsy says:
HA, ha, ha! Its true.
Texas1 says:
That would be interesting to know. These names only show up when there is something on here about Nazism.
Nipple says:
All Ruskies, Krauts, and Stupid yankee types should be shot and their cocks fed to rabid “jew” dogs.
John from Kansas says:
BS.
John from Kansas says:
I have found the book of Grossman’s writing as a war correspondent but still search for the novels. Thanks for the recommendation.
maxD says:
Try amazon.com – the second hand section. Shouldn’t be too troublesome…
John from Kansas says:
Indiscriminate is the key word.
John from Kansas says:
That’s the spirit.
John from Kansas says:
The Lada was not copied. It was built under a joint license agreement with Fiat. One of the most produced cars in the world, the Lada was not intended to compete with cars like BMW. It was cheap transportation.
Pacific NW says:
This was the most retarded thing I’ve ever seen on this website.
Twister says:
I know.
Sean says:
Interesting Images, it goes to show that Soviet Propaganda about Germans bringing Armageddon to the overrun areas of Russia wasnt completely true.
I little doubt the NKVD if it identified any of these Civilians in the Photographs had them sent to Count trees in Siberia (or Worse, the usual 7.62 Tokarev to the back of the neck, ala Katyn).
Frankly, I dont see how this is “Pro-Fascist” or “Pro-Nazi”, it just shows that ordinary Russian Peasants coexisted with German Soldiers in the Occupied areas. I note the Older Gent with the Kar98k Rifle to have possibly been a “Hiwi”
Anna says:
Don’t forget that most of these pictures were made because of propaganda reasons. I know about life of my relatives, it was terrible. And my grandfather, a boy of 14 at that time, was working with his friends in the fields several days and nights in row, while the line of front was only 10 km away. And he would never smile and make photo with a nazi!
Hui Lee says:
Fuck Israel Fuck USA Fuck Britain Fuck Germany Fuck you All !
Anna says:
Propaganda of Gebbels!
Better see here:
(unfortunately, only in Russian).
It is about Russian and Ukrainian young partisans (most of them were school children, about 16-17 years old), how they were struggling against nazi and almost all of them were killed after terrible tortures.
talking beaver says:
What a nice example!
We learned about them in school back then in USSR.
Every kid in USSR was taught about these Holy Martyrs, created by Soviet Agitprop, and had to pass tests on that.
There were a lot of others like them.
One of the most famost was Pavlik Morozov – the kid, fiery young Communist (Pioneer) who denounced his own father to cheka (Communist secret police) for being “kulak” (Which resulted in his death, of course. The father’s that is), but was killed by other evil “kulaks” for that. For this he was canonized as a Hero and Holy Martyr of Bolshevism (well, they did not exactly use these terms, but the idea was like that).
We all were taught to be like Pavlik. To denounce our parents to the regime.
These “Young Guard” semi-mythical characters are of the same Pantheon.
This is how Propaganda has removed any last chance of possibility for sober attitude to reality from Russian heads.
Fine illustration.
P.S. Not that these individuals could not have existed. Pavlik is said to have really denounced his relatives. He had been local village retard.
Anna says:
Don’t forget that most of these pictures were made because of propaganda reasons. I know about life of my relatives, it was terrible. And my grandfather, a boy of 14 at that time, was working with his friends in the fields several days and nights in row, while the line of front was only 10 km away. And he would never smile and make photo with a nazi!
John from Kansas says:
If you ever come through Kansas City let me know and we’ll have that discussion. In the meantime mosey over to the Forum, brew a fresh pot, and start pounding those keys.
Elkman says:
Prior to stating how perfect living under Nazi was, find and read how many soviet villages and towns disappeared completely from Earth surface as the result of Nazi invasion…
talking beaver says:
Well, well. That is a pity of course. (And no one here seriously says that Nazis were good, make that clear.)
While still it would be appropriate to remember, that:
- Nazis till the very early morning of the day of attack very Friends and Partners of Your country.
- Until the very latest moment Soviets helped and supported Nazis, even shared the Europe between them
- USSR was not innocent victim. It had itself attacked many countries before that. And even kicked out of League of Nations for doing so!
- Soviets in parallel with Nazis leveled towns and cities by artillery fire and areal bombardment, so that here was not a chimney standing. Who destroyed more cities remains to be answered.
For a change, why don’t you go and read about Soviet bombing of Helsinki in 1939, for example.
Elkman says:
That is perferct if nobody here really thinks that Nazi was good… However there is a lot of such all around the world, in particular, in Ukraine and Baltic States.
1) Friends? I’m not sure. But the partners – yes as two outlawas among “civilized capitalistic countries”.
2) Everybody consideres this as sharing Europe. While USSR took back the territories taken away from them during Civil War and Intervention in 1918-1920.
3) In that particular war (Great Patriotic War and even WWII) USSR was a victim… an innocent victim. If we recall all previous wars and attacks we would hardly find any innocent country (even Finland by the way).
4) Sounds like Hitler said: “If a thief had stolen your money and you took this money back from him, would you become a thief too?” I believe there can be no questions who was right and who was wrong in that war.
I have read so much about the Winter War (1939-1940) and about bombing Helsinki in particular. I’m not justifying civilians dead, however it was fault of finnish government that the Winter War had started. Their behaviour was much more aggressive and they made no steps to resolve the issues peacefully, while the USSR did.
talking beaver says:
Oh, believe me, nobody here in Baltic states seriously thinks that Nazis were good.
The point is that people do not think that Soviets were any better.
That is what drives Russia crazy, because this eliminates moral grounds for traditional Russian Soviet “you owe me, so obey and do what I say” (or else) policy.
Today Mr. Lavrov, Russian Foreign Minister, in press conference again was bitching about “some NATO members who are re-writing history and glorifying Nazis”. What a patience…
Coming back to your comment:
1)
OK, let it be “partners” then.
As of your “civilized capitalistic countries” I guess you have special attitude to “capitalistic” and you do doubt that Western countries are civilized?
(BTW, why totalitarian countries run by Fuhrers, killing their own citizens and invading other countries and killing other people there should not be “outlaws”?)
2)
USSR “took back”?
I thought USSR did not exist until 1924. But I am glad that you admit the fact, which is actually well known to everyone, that USSR in fact was just another incarnation of Russian Empire.
Also I doubt that it really had right to just “take back” what it thought it “rightfully owns”. If you follow this logic, modern Russia can “take back” Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Moldova, half of Poland and many other countries (which seems it has not given up thinking about).
If you follow this logic, you also can claim that in 1939 Nazi Germany rightfully “took back” Western part of Poland (while Eastern part of Poland as rightfully “taken back” by Russia, as you stated in your comment). Why? Because it had annexed Austria, which used to be main part of Austro-Hungarian Empire, which used o own that part of Poland. I just wonder why Great Britain declared war on Germany. Damn Brits! War mongers!
(Soviet propaganda actually used to picture Great Britain as war mongers before WWII, while making friends (sorry, “partners”) with Nazis).
If you follow this logic, Mongolia owns Russia, because Mongol Golden Horde once owned it.
3) Old Good “Great Patriotic War”.
How do you make Russians proud of themselves? You take the World War, subtract everything you SHOULD be ashamed about, and call it something else. Voila! Problem solved!
4) Exactly my point! “Two wrongs do not make one right”. A thug killing another thug does not become model citizen. Communists beating Nazis did not excuse for the fact, that they were more or less the same.
As of Finland again –
“Their behaviour was much more aggressive” – how is that? Ah, I seem to remember. When Russians told them, give part of your country to us, Finns snapped back something like “f#ck you!”. Damn White Finn Aggressors!!!
“they made no steps to resolve the issues peacefully”- Really? What do you mean? Ah, I get it! It is just like a robber saying “It is all his fault. I told him to give me his wallet, but he did comply, so I had to blow his brain out. Poor me.”
You are a perfect Russian. Pure essence. Surprising, but you and most of your compatriots do not see anything wrong with this imperial chauvinist “logic”. You consider it “patriotism”. While everyone else is looking at you with disgust and fear.
Besides it is in full compliance with political position of your country. … Sadly.
Elkman says:
///The point is that people do not think that Soviets were any better\\\
I would make a remark: most of people think that Soviets were worse.
I completely agree with Lavrov: if you install monuments to Nazis (and at the same time remove or even relocate monuments to the Soviets) you are re-writing the history.
1) �civilized capitalistic countries� is a famous established expression… In fact Western Europe have always looked at Russia as at something undeveloped and non-civilized, while there has been no difference between them in the point of view of civilization development. You mention “killing their own citizens and invading other countries” as the reason to becoma an outlaw… well… following your logic France, UK, USA, Finland must be outlaws, aren’t they?
We need more people with an attitude like yours. I wasn’t going to comment until i read your post. If i could email a cold beer, i`d send a carton
giantblob says:
Close examination of the photos reveal that most of the smiling Russians and German soldiers are smiling with their eyes. I.E., they are actually smiling because they are happy and not because someone told them to.
Yes the German army did A LOT of horrible things, but shurly this shows that there were some decent guys too!
karl says:
It is so interesting of the Amerikanisch replyes.For they know so little, and but say so much! For what do they know? And yes, my fater was SS of Panzer, so what.
Karl
ast says:
war is awful thihg. as my grandmother told me how she was feeling when a soldier gave her a bread and next moment just shot her sister with a cat…………… etc….
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