Embedded Files
During World War 2 the Nazi soldiers besides their rifles had also cameras handy and made a lot of photos of the conquered territories. Such pictures were banned in Soviet Russia because they didn’t fit in the official agenda. According to Soviet propaganda Nazis were not much better than wild dangerous animals killing and torturing civilians and burning down every village they enter. Later, after the collapse of USSR some amount of evidence started arriving from abroad to Russia, showing that it was not so bad under the short German rule for the Russian people, some really enjoyed some freedoms they didn’t have under the Soviet rule. Like on the top picture people depicted throwing rocks at the Lenin monument. Also private property was restored and people could compete freely opening some businesses. Still such talks are not welcomed in modern Russia too because practically every Russian family has someone who was killed as a soldier during WW2 and accepting the fact that it was not so bad under the Nazis means to somehow reject the fact that their fathers died for the better future. Still here are some photos from Germans of Russian people and German soldiers during WW2.
391 Responses to “Russia under Nazis during WW2”
391 Responses to “Russia under Nazis during WW2”
Fuel says:
Looks like a tough life no matter who was in charge.
Holy shit, my anti-spam word was Kgb…they’re watching
Marina says:
Author, do not you think that these pictures are in fact Nazi propaganda?
Sadly, it seems to me, you giving out an impression that the Fascists can somehow be excused for the crimes they have comitted. If it is the case, this is very troubleling indeed.
Piesces says:
So, do you think that this is is a propaganda, or this, just 24 years after the Bolshevik coup and all the executions and confiscations by Communists is propaganda too?
Frankly, I do not see much propaganda in the rest of the pictures. They do not differ much from what you can see in the modern day Russian village, except that the streets with old Tsar time cobblestone paving are in better condition than they are today, and the people look healthier.
Marina says:
You must come from one of the Baltic Countries. Sadlly, many people in this counties are now glorifying the Third Reich by holding annual marches in their hornor and building memorials for their glory.
I can guess what person you are.
babachkayaga says:
And I can guess what kind of a person you are… the chosen one, of course!
Ivan Mikhailov says:
As a joke say, “if Baltic people really want to review results of WWII then we can re-demonstrate them”.
Sonny says:
Nice joke! Really Russian one! That’s how mentality of a nation finally always shows up. Here it is the typical Russian way of doing things – when you dislike someone for expressing something that disagrees with your point of view, you just beat him up. For lacking respect to your great and peace loving personality. Da, Ivan?
D says:
You can disagree with the point of view of a russian and it will be fine, the problem comes in when these views threaten a russian. And we stand up for ourselves and our views too.
Nina, Germany says:
yes, God forbid someone does something in his own country that Russians don’t like. Because it;s up to Russians what monuments stand in another country’s cities, right?
liethunian says:
Thats just propoganda. Don’t believe everything you read on the internets.
Justin says:
Oh sure, yeah, this article in Independent must be anti-estonian propaganda from the UK
Or perhaps this video is photoshoped?
So now we can clearly see who is in fact producing propaganda, can�t we? You and your racist sidekick “rafal” come to this site with the only purposes of coughing up lies about Russia and its good people. Hope you get some treatment to stop that nasty cough of yours.
talking beaver says:
Heh. Here comes the Abramov’s gang with their very own pornography collection.
Aa a matter of fact the dreaded “SS march” (Russian mass media started to call it like that) is nothing of the sort. Although it is extremely (!) extensively used by Russian propaganda since Putin came to power.
It actually is a commemoration of soldiers, who died in war while fighting on German side against Red army (which had invaded and occupied their country in 1940), similarly like Finns did. Event consisted of placing flowers in front of monument of Freedom by their relatives. That is all. The date was chosen for the first major battle on Eastern front with mass casualities (At that time they did not use body bags, they buried them in mud in the swamp). Soldiers mostly were conscripts mobilised by Germans against the rules of Geneva convention. It is rather mean to use grief of people for political revenue. Disgusting even. You would be ashamed if you would have shame.
You might want to look here for some info: Latvian legion soldiers at Nuremberg Tribunal
Justin says:
Yeah sure, that�s why they wear swastika earrings and give Hitler salutes.
http://photofile.name/users/stopnazi/2444938/44601315/#breadcr
You just keep digging…
talking beaver says:
“They” who?
I can dig you tons of similar images on Internet from any country in the world, and very, very many of them will come from Russia.
One of those crazed types with idée fixe and Internet connection.
igor says:
so do it! i want to see russian police with swastikas or i dunno… canadian police with swastika earrings
let’s see some!
talking beaver says:
Quote for you:
“In 1946 next to English and American armies there were founded so called Guard companies. (The first one was called Viesturs company.) Legionaries were recognized as units in no way connected to the crimes of SS.” “Four companies (approx. 1000 men), including Viesturs company, in 1947 took over the guard at the Nuremberg Palace of Justice (!) and the prison!”
“Paramilitary units of Latvians and Estonians in Germany were also working at the Nuremberg Trials (1947 – 1949), where they were guarding war criminals. [...] guard posts were located not only at the perimeter of the Palace of Justice, but also at the doors to the cells. Baltic guards were escorting inmates to the walking areas and to the interrogations. [...] Only two functions at the Nuremberg Trials were performed by American military police: escort of inmates in the court hall and to the execution (hanging).” “When Berlin crisis took place and airlift for supply of West Berlin started to operate, viesturians were transferred to the forests near the border to secure the most important field storages of the USA Army. After that Latvian guards were transferred to the surroundings of Stuttgart to guard USA Army corps headquarters”.
Leon says:
germans were respectfull and civilized, in comparisons to the soviets who raped , pillaged and killed with out mercy.I heard stories about women in the red army who put corsets over their uniforms and men who stole room watches and wore them around their neck.And i am not from the baltic states.
k says:
Yes, yes… Germans were so respectful and civilized that before German officer raped a woman he ordered her to wash up and wear clean clothes, German soldiers were so civilized, they did not raped many women – just shared one, and they only pillaged expensive and luxury items…
Germandeath says:
It is well seen that people are just starving, because Nazi confiscated or burnt out the food and crops. USSR’s total loss in WW2 was 27 millions, and only 9.5 millions were army men who died in fights. Other 17.5 millions were civilians who were killed by Nazis.
I hate Germans, i want them to die all.
Marina says:
That is very silly and dangerous opinion to have. I hope it will cnange as you grow up.
baltiiski says:
Why is it so hard for so many Russians (those with Soviet mentality) to understand and admit that besides the Nazi occupation the Communist occupation was just as bad? Why is it so difficult to see the comparison?
Both of my grandfathers were killed by the Soviets – one as deported to Siberia for owning a truck (means that he was automatically anti-regime or kulak) and the other one because he had had a German girlfriend years before. The Nazi occupation was bad, but in total numbers so many more perished under the Soviets in East Europe. A simple fact.
Now you don’t find it today’s Russia’s history textbooks. Sad.
Germandeath says:
“Nazi occupation the Communist occupation was just as bad” FOR NAZI COLLABORATORS! DEATH TO ESTONIAN COLLABORATORS OF NAZIS!
Helga the Magnificent says:
You just keep on living in your delusions. I wonder why Russia is still a lousy shithole, while Estonia is a well on its way to becoming a prosperous, decent European country, already tightly integrated into EU, the Schengen space and NATO.
Germandeath says:
Ha-ha! That’s why Estonians escape from Estonia and it is lost over 20% of its population.
Piesces says:
Don’t worry! There are still enough Russians left in Estonia who, despite constant whining about nasty Estonians who do not want be Soviets anymore, are not going to go anywhere.
And the last thing they really ever might think about, is going back to their Great Motherland, lousy shithole Russkieland.
mukut dave says:
yes, death to the barbarian russians
Piesces says:
And what about Bolshevik collaborators?
Well, I now the answer … I guess we will just go on with Russian Ambassador shaking their hands and issuing honors … Including those accused, tried and found guilty of war crimes, like burning pregnant women alive (Comrade Kononov) etc.
KanuTaH says:
Yes the Soviet occupation was indeed just as bad, no no common, even worse yes more than the nazis killed, more than 35 million died from the evil soviet occupation (not…). That is almost all of those who I am qoting you “have perieshed in europe” were the soviets themselves before WW2. The country lost 25 million during the german occupation, and was in complete destruction, wealthy and isolated from troubles america was on its way to dominate the world with the atomic bomb, the soviets newer invaded before the WW2 for a world domination, they wanted to be left alone and not bother anyone too much. After WW2 soviet union had to occupy those countries otherwise there would be too much imbalance in power. Estonians as far as I know didn’t resist the Germans that much. While the nazis exterminated other europeans, under a soviet occupation the soviets didnt do that, anything bad that happened to people happened to the soviets themselves too.
talking beaver says:
Aside from absurd “anything bad that happened to people happened to the soviets themselves too”, check your facts!
Your phrase “the soviets newer invaded before the WW2 for a world domination, they wanted to be left alone and not bother anyone too much” is just plain wrong. They invaded A LOT of countries and even were expelled from the League of Nations for being an AGGRESSOR!
Andi says:
Well, i am German… why don’t you come here and try to kill me, asshole?! You are just a jerk, have no idea what was going on, and I hope for humanity’s sake that genes of people like you will be eradicated from the face of this planet forever, so the rest of us can live peacefully together. Without wanting to kill anybody… Idiot!
Kostya says:
I guess your comment applies to all Russians, I think most of them are still pretty hostile towards Germans so why don’t you eradicate them all and because they are causing pain to you if you think about it. (Wait dude, Russia is in a economic mess and the origins are still seen from the WW2, for example you can still see how there are many more women in Russia than men because about 8 million more women died in WW2) The German nation is trying to restore peace and order but… there are just too many Russians that show resentment towards them (Dude, not really, if you ask a Russian person what they think of a German, they will probably say in return ‘Hitler Kaput’ but that’s about it, i personally don’t hear people talking about hate when they talk about Germans. Wait, just a small thing to say ‘Germans living peacefully together with the others?’ – and I know mate that it is true right now but there will have to be hundreds more years to pass in order for people to think ‘Hmm yes, the Germans have been peaceful judging by the history compared to other nations’ (A funny thing, one of my relatives is German ethnically but he was born in Russia before WW2, he was then moved to central asian part of USSR in fear of collaborating with the invading Germans) He lived in central asia which was largely russian, and finally moved to Germany with his family but there he is too old to learn German, so he doesn’t speak to Germans, he only speaks to russian speakers, isn’t that odd?)
Mixas says:
Gebbels would be proud of you my dear german friend…
Hui Lee says:
“Some freedoms they didn’t have under the soviet rule ” “Also private property was restored and people could compete freely opening some businesses ” Complete BullShit ! Admin go shoot yourself idiot ! УЕБАН !
Piesces says:
Hahh!!!
GET READY FOR A SHITSTORM!!!!! )
Communist mythology shrouding the Great Patriotic War (which is WWII onwards from German invasion into USSR, after invasions done by Soviets which do not count) is a Holy Grail to Russians, due to all the brainwashing during and after the Soviet times, and posting something like this will spark a tsunami of hysterical hatred.
Looking forward to watch this!
Pros says:
Dude you need big sperm tsunami from all faggots out there
Marina says:
That is a very silly and dangerous opinion to have. I hope it will cnange as you grow up.
rafal says:
Soviets were not much better then fascists. Just two criminals that took themselvs by the throats.
It’s a shame that Russians don’t have anything in their last 200 years history that they coud be proud of without lies or amnesia.
Hui Lee says:
You dumb monkey
Piesces says:
I would say they can be really proud of the old fellow Yuri Gagarin. Though they used German V technology just as Americans did.
But that is about it. The rest of 20th century has been a bloody lousy nightmare for Russians. Pity that they generally do not really get the extend of the damage …
rafal says:
Gagarin flight is a matter of couple of engineers. But what they have done as a nation? The rockt and nuclear power were achieved thank to millions of slaves working in Gulag.
SovietSweden says:
They created two-headed dogs-
Surely this must be a reason for Russia to attain the OZUM status
babachkayaga says:
Yeah, sure, forget all the great Russian minds that have contributed to the world of art, science, and literature. It ain’t progress without grand space shuttles.
Twister says:
Great Russian minds? Yes, there were some. Like they are in every nation.
But not so many and not so great as you are used to thinking. Taking into account how big the country is, there were even relatively few.
In Stalin times there was trend to make people think that all and every invention was done by Russians. For example, that it was Popov and not Marconi, who invented radion, Yablochkin (?) and not the Edison who invented light bulb, Mozhaiski and not the Wright brothers who invented the airplane. So, your “greatness” is of much smaller scale than you would like to think, as most of it is imaginary.
And of those “great” Russian culture people, like Pushkin, Gogol etc. Yes, they were really good. Just like other similar people in other countries. Nothing out of this world, extraordinary and divine, how you like to think of yourselves. And some of them were not even Russians, like Gogol (real surname Hohol’) was Ukrainian. Famous Pushkin was part African by the way.
That never ending Russian obsession with their “greatness”, that’ s f#cking irritating. Bare ass + outstanding arrogance, some combination…
babachkayaga says:
There are tons of characteristically Russian poets, writers, musicians, composers, directors and artists who are in many ways genuinely unique. Clearly, you’ve been sticking to your spoon-fed classic education, unaware of the country’s overabundance of cultural wealth… talk about arrogance!
Your opinion of what is “greatness” is “imaginary”, so just switch your light on and listen to the radio… or better yet, take a flight and read some Pushkin! Also, I said “great” NOT “greatest”, so fuck off.
Piesces says:
Oh, I did not mean Russia does not have “culture”. It clearly has. Just like many others do. It is not so exceptional as Russian mindset says it is.
I’m not talking about you in particular.
The saying “Velikij moguchij Russkij jazyk” (The Great and Powerful Russian language) illustrates it – one of the catchphrases, the mantras of Soviet propaganda, with strong emphasis on Russian nationalism and implied Russian superiority.
And I said Pushkin was good, so fuck off too and read it yourself.
Mixas says:
Friend of mine went to a college here in the US – took some sort of arts class – a fat ass textbook i looked through it… not a single f..king article on russian culture or art. and this was in 2003 – cold war is over, huh?
Crackpot says:
OK then.
A question:
Have you seen many art class Russian fat ass textbooks with articles about American culture or art?
Talking about Cold War, eh?
Mufasa says:
Half or more of those great “Russian” minds were Jewish.
Germandeath says:
Jews didn’t live in Russia at all before 1917.
Piesces says:
Was that a joke or you are indeed stupid ?
Germandeath says:
On March 20 (April 2), 1917, the Pale was abolished by the Provisional Government decree, On abolition of confessional and national restrictions.
Estonian idiot, learn some real history, not propaganda, that you was taught in school. I bet all you studied was just Mein Kampf. Death to estonian nazis!
Piesces says:
Watch your language, bozo!
At that time “Russia” meant “Russian Empire” which stretched Westwards beyond Warsaw.
If you want to start pealing off all the territories and people conquered at different times, to leave only the “true Russia”, I am afraid that you will and up with Moscow district (Muscovy) and Ivan Kalita – collaborator of Mongols, thug and traitor. ( Model citizen of Putin’s Russia? )
Marina says:
Stalin terror against the Russian people could never and must never be forgotten. But to compare Stalin purges to the autrocites of Hitler, is simply wrong and unexeptable.
Stalin actions were a result of his paranoia. Hitler actions were a result of the most terrible, evil and inhuman ideology, where disabled people were killed just for being disabled, where Jews and Roma were killed just for their race. And they weren’t just killed by the bullet in the head, the method that Stalins regime used, oh no, the methods of the Fascists were so much more brutal.
rafal says:
Really? What’s the difference if they kill you because of your nationality or social backround? Millions of Ukrainians have died out of starvation. Eating dead corpses and cannibalism was a common thing. Is it better then being gased in a chamber?
Marina says:
Or burning alive childer?
Marina says:
My english not good. I was I was supposed to write “burning alive children”
rafal says:
So you see, they are the same.
Justin says:
You are just a sick piece of nazi shit, aren’t you?
Piesces says:
And what kind of shit is that which you are so full bulging with?
Chipo says:
That is a very silly and dangerous opinion to have. I hope it will cnange as you grow up.
chris says:
*Soviets were not much better then fascists. Just two criminals that took themselvs by the throats.*
Wise words.
Pros says:
So. Do you guys know that IGOR IS A BALDY FAG? We’ll work on it to make sure you do.
Tell us more about Igor, please, before this page degenerates into a new Great Patriotic War!
Mumu says:
Author please note, even Soviet propogand never says – all german soldiers are bustards. Those pictures looks pritty nice, but the background – 27 millions soviet people died of wounds, deseases, hunger or fell in action during WWII.
Piesces says:
What your data forget to say, that many of civilians dies as result of Soviet policy of Scorched Earth, NKVD secret police operations and general principle of viewing people as expendables.
As for soldiers, German soldiers used later to recall in horror how Russians were attacking in open, in tight ranks onto machine gun nests. They could not retreat because behind them were NKVD blocking troops, with their own machine guns, shooting at their own men if they hesitated. The embankments of dead human bodies aggregated around the machine gun nests, until finally the machine guns overheated and jammed. Then the attackers took over. That’s how “The Victory” was forged.
Human lives were cheap under Communists. They are still cheap in Russia run by KGB crooks. (Just like if Germany 60 years after the war would be run by Gestapo officer).
rafal says:
Absolutely right. But hard to accept after decades of brainwashing.
Ivan Mikhailov says:
“They could not retreat because behind them were NKVD blocking troops, with their own machine guns, shooting at their own men if they hesitated”
That’s big and clear and stupid lie, but it is big enough and stupid enough to let people believe in it. That’s the fundamental rule of any propaganda — do not try to lie in minor things, people will catch you on them, better state an absolute bullshit — it will give you more chances.
Dmitri says:
I hate to disappoint you but this is not a lie, my grandfather told me just that and he fought on Soviet side. Soviets really did force their grunts to march on with “friendly fire”.
cynical bastard says:
Note that in Pics 2 and 5 German soldiers are greeted as liberators. Incidentally, Solzhenitsyn concurs on this point.
John from Kansas says:
The Nazis weren’t libertors.
Piesces says:
Define: “liberator (n)”.
If liberator is someone who liberates you from somebody else, then yes, Nazis were “liberators”.
Just like Soviets were “liberators” after that.
The pity is, that both “White Knights”, after liberating the Princess from the Rapist considered themselves to be entitled to rape the Princess themselves.
As simple as that.
John from Kansas says:
I understand your point that the word’s use can be realative, but the objectives of Nazi Germany was not to liberate anyone.
Visitor says:
John, sit down, I have something to tell you . . . .
I agree with you.
John from Kansas says:
…I’m speechless…
Piesces says:
Of course, John. You are absolutely right!
The “objectives of Nazi Germany was not to liberate anyone”, just like “objectives of Bolshevik Russia was not to liberate anyone” either.
Both technically were liberators, both were greeted as such at varying places and times, both had their own objectives, both subjugated other nations, both were Socialist, both were totalitarian, both were cruel, both killed a lot of people … and so the list goes on …
Only difference is that Nazis went down in 1945, but as of Soviets – they survived much longer, and it actually is not clear yet if finally they are down for good or have just mutated into different form and are coming back after re-grouping, only under different colors this time.
John from Kansas says:
…both were socialists in name only.
Piesces says:
I bet a lot of people would disagree with you about that.
Visitor says:
I think John has a very romantic notion of what socialism is. I think he spent too much time in Paris cafes.
I know, I know, John . . . I�m making assumptions again.
Texas1 says:
To some extent that could be argued. Prior to World War II, the Germans had one of the weakest economies in all of Europe. Once Hitler came to power, the entire economy turned around. Leaders from other parts of the world came and marveled at Hitler’s accomplishments and unemployment was close to zero. In essence, it could be argued that the people of Germany experienced tremendous liberation.
Jester says:
That is true, Hitler did mobilise the German people, but you also need to understand the underlying effects of this on the German economy. Stalin also did similar, but again, the false economy of a manufacured prosperity eventually collapsed.
Both sides of the war did terrible things and not just the Germans and Russians, Americans, British, Canadian, Australian, Italians, Spanish… I am sure each nation has a story of terrible deeds comitted at some stage. No country ever celebrates this and will never portray itself as the evil party, but men are men and in exceptional circumstances anything can happen.
The important thing is not to dwell on the events and harbour ill will, but to learn from those events and strive to be better people.
Hui Lee says:
Not matter, just a little part of german soldiers was’t cruel killers
Piesces says:
What your data forget to say, that many of civilians dies as result of Soviet policy of Scorched Earth, NKVD secret police operations and general principle of viewing people as expendables.
As for soldiers, German soldiers used later to recall in horror how Russians were attacking in open, in tight ranks onto machine gun nests. They could not retreat because behind them were NKVD blocking troops, with their ouwn machine guns, shooting on their own men if they hesitated. The embankments of dead human bodies aggregated around the machine gun nests, until finally the machine guns overheated and jammed. Then the attackers took over. That’s how “The Victory” was forged.
Human lives were cheap under Communists. They are still cheap in Russia run by KGB crooks. (Just like if Germany 60 years after the war would be run by Gestapo officer).
illlich says:
“some really enjoyed some freedoms they didn’t have under the Soviet rule”
yes, like “freedom from Jews” for example.
The Nazis had no respect for Slavs, they were considered inferior, they were to be the slaves for the third reich.
Ahh. . . to choose between Hitler and Stalin, it’s like choosing whether to be tortured to death or starved to death.
Moris says:
same, germans are animals
david says:
we are all animals, and those who deny it are simply more primitive animals.
Stinson says:
I remember my grandfather speaking of the young German farm boy whom he captured during the battle in the Falaise gap on the Normandy coast. Both were Luthern, both were farmers, both were fighting for thier country beleiveing they were doing waht was right, both just wanted to go home and be farmers. Under different circumstances they may have been friends.Under war time they were enemies.
Not all German soldiers were animals just as not all Soviet soldiers were animals as the Germans claim. Some were just young men who were doing thier duty. If we can take one thing from the past it should be that human tragedy crossess all ethnic and cultural boundaries and no one group can claim sole ownership of it and no one group can claim complete innocence. To do so is ignorance.
John from Kansas says:
.
adolf hitler says:
TO ALL WHO ARE TALKING ABOUT THE “NAZI CRIMINALS”
1) Waging war is legal means of dealing with a nation that can not be dealt with by diplomatic means. There is nothing inhuman, criminal or wrong about it except of cource the loss of lives in the process, which again by international law is legal (like for example one soldier killing another).
2) In all wars collateral damage in unavoidable. Civilians have died in every single major war without exception.
3) If the “nazis” were so bad, how can over 100 000 000 peoples in the Soviet Union killed, starved to death etc can possibly be better than what the COLLATERAL damage in ww2 caused?
If anyone from other than some ex-soviet country is reading this, please understand: in the minds some ex-soviet nationals people killed by communism simply do not count. Mass murderers are still if not heroes, then certainly great men and whatever horror tied to ww2 is exclusively the wrongdoing of the Germans.
Anykind of conflicting evidence is considered plain wrong, propaganda, or fraud.
Fact beeng, even after some 20 years of soviet rule, after the mass executions of every nonconformist and political dissident, the people hated the USSR and that half jew maniac Stalin aka Dzugashvilli. (Dzuga- “jew”, “shvilli”- son of)
So in your face, red scum. You can`t keep the truth from emerging now, its not the “good ol days” when anyone showing such pictures would be shot as a “enemy of the people”.
Marina says:
Yes, it seems Hitler is still alive.
Columbia Records says:
So is Elvis.
Texas1 says:
He changed his name to Vlad. Putin!!!!
John from Kansas says:
Hey Schickelgruber. The Soviets and the Allies beat you. History is written by the victors.
Germandeath says:
3) If the “nazis” were so bad, how can over 100 000 000 peoples in the Soviet Union killed, starved to death etc can possibly be better than what the COLLATERAL damage in ww2 caused?
Whyn not 200 millions or 300 millions? Where do you get those numbers? Ah, from cold-war propaganda…
Amusee says:
Stalin was not Jewish. Dzhugashvili does not mean “son of Jew”. “Dzhuga” does not mean “Jew” in Georgian. (Nor does it mean that in Russian.) The Georgian word for “Jew” is “ebraeli”. “Dzhuga” refers to a place (and likely to an extinct Georgian tribe that gave its name to the place), but it has nothing to do with Jews. Stalin was Georgian and Orthodox. In fact, he studied to be priest.
John from Kansas says:
Hey Schickelgruber, the Soviets and the Allies beat you. History is written by the victors.
rafal says:
So you see. They are the same.
United States says:
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,
The germans had to learn the hard way and you know what happened to them. “hint” “hint”.
kthxbye.
Texas1 says:
The same thing that happened to the soviets?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
godless atheist Soviets were beaten by warriors of Allah in mountains and valleys of Afghanistan. Your drunken cocaine-using harlot-chasing congressman Charlie Wilson knows–ask him.
Texas1 says:
Wilson single handedly destroyed the soviet empire. This is just another example of how one American has saved the world!!!
John from Kansas says:
[Yawn]
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
please see my response below.
KanuTaH says:
rafal, you must be so fucking exceptionally clever to make comments like that “Gagarin flight is a matter of couple of engineers. But what they have done as a nation?” 1) Together Russian and Western technologies and experience is what made modern space technologies, navigation systems etc, 2) Personally I review the Russian history of gulags as a harsh experiment that fall on Russia as if caused by devil. 3) Soviet Union had about 1/4 of all world’s engeneers by 1970s.
Texas1 says:
Then why couldn’t they manage to produce anything marketable to the rest of the world?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
They did. Have you seen a Russian Kalashnikov assault rifle, or a rocket propelled grenade launcher? They are very marketable. Also there are some T-series tanks and a few missiles around that make very good trade items.
John from Kansas says:
…Sukhoi, MiG…
Texas1 says:
That Soviet technology was no match for the Afghans.
John from Kansas says:
Niether is U.S. technology.
Texas1 says:
It is very clear that US technology has been extremely effective in Afghanistan.
Texas1 says:
Oh you forgot about the russian land mines that looked like toys that killed and maimed thousands upon thousands of innocent children. Now that is an example of modern day nazism.
John from Kansas says:
…or the U.S. made landmines that covered southern Lebanon.
Texas1 says:
If you are talking about the ones that Israel used, then they didn’t look anything like the evil soviet versions. US manufactured landmines never looked like toys. That was something that the truly sick minded russians thought up.
John from Kansas says:
No one can be excused from the use of landmines. Landmines are indiscriminate killers that do not distinguish between a soldier�s footstep or a child�s, between war and peace. Russia, the U.S. and a number of other countries have not signed the treaty banning the use and manufacture landmines. All landmines must be banned.
INDIAN says:
That anti land mine treaty is a farce.
Thirty-seven states, including the People’s Republic of China, India, Russia and the United States, are not party to the Convention.
Pakistan has not signed it as well. New Zealand has but New Zealand does not have neighbours.
http://archive.calm.org.nz/news/News_Nov97.html talks about Boris Yeltsin thinking of signing the treaty.
Twister says:
“Soviet Union had about 1/4 of all world’s engeneers by 1970s.”
Really?
How comes that they never did a decent car design of their own?
I guess that was some evil Capitalist plot preventing them from doing it.
P.S.
I will tell you why there were so many Engineers. As everything non-technical was under strict Party control, people who did not want to get indoctrinated much more than regular level, had to to get educated as Engineers.
Many or most of the professions common then and now in West either did not exist (sociologist), were under strict control (journalist, musician), twisted (economist, historian) or illegal (businessman). So either you joined the Party or went to the Engineers. Or none. THAT is why there were so MANY engineers who did not create anything much useful, because it was not the system to do that.
P.P.S.
Besides, do you like it or not, most of the advanced technology used in USSR was stolen or copied (often rather crudely) in the West.
John from Kansas says:
BS
Twister says:
How comes?
John from Kansas says:
Your statement, “…most of the advanced technology used in USSR was stolen or copied (often rather crudely) in the West.”, is not true. Russian technology stood on it’s own in most cases. The MiG-25 is a good example. Initialy western aviation experts scoffed at what they perceived as a crude design. Later they were forced to admit that the Tumansky engines were not only powerful, but were not affected by the ingestion of debris that is typical of field conditions. The same held true for the “outdated” vacuum-tube avionics, sturdy, reliable and easily repaired.
Twister says:
Ah, OK. Agree. Possibly that came out as misstatement. I should have said almost all civilian technology and some of military technology.
Because, yes, military technology was a priority and had a lot of interesting, superior designs of their own. True.
The civil side sucked completely and out of question.
By the way, I have both fired M-16 and AKM and find AKM preferable because it, while less accurate, is more reliable.
John from Kansas says:
�Zenit SLR cameras. Good quality, performance and low cost.
Texas1 says:
John, it is undeniable that the russians did complete rips offs of thousands upon thousands of US made products.
John from Kansas says:
Bullshit.
Twister says:
Is not.
While it would be more correct to replace “US” by “West”.
For example magnetic tape cassette recorders and VHS video recorder.
And almost every car model.
John from Kansas says:
The Lada was not copied. It was built under a joint license agreement with Fiat. It was one of the most produced cars in the world, the Lada was not intended to compete with cars like BMW. It was cheap transportation.
Mixas says:
I’ve heard here in the US on discovery channel or smth like that that US adopted design of the ejectionseat from russia they had no chance of making anything as effective.
Twister says:
Yes, I remember reading about it in nineties.
I remember USA ejection seats having problems with pilots losing limbs during ejection. Soviet seats had solved this issue long ago by introducing small shields rising at the sides of the seat to prevent arms and legs from flapping around.
Shocking!
Soviet military technology was advanced, exactly in a way that it was simplistic and rugged. The problem was with all of the rest – beginning from home appliances and ending with food, clothes and music.
Twister says:
Well. I have one. Bought it 15 years ago. Low cost, reasonable performance, rather rugged. I would consider quality not good but reasonable by modern standards. Not the usual useless Soviet crap. Possibly because optics factories traditionally were part of Soviet military industrial complex, so the quality of produce was better than Soviet average. “You get what you pay for.” I prefer Nikon.
By the way long ago I used to have two different Soviet film cameras and both did not work. That is – they kind of worked. Sometimes. Somehow. One started only after you delivered a blow to it. Ir was normal back then.
cynical bastard says:
Sure, Nazis were no liberators. But whether they were any worse than Commies (note that same Solzhenitsyn described Russian civilians following retreating German troops) is far from clear…
anton says:
Ёбнутый “интеллигент”, ты кроме книжек стукачка Лженицына, какие-нибудь нормальные книги читал, уебан?
Ivan Mikhailov says:
Да ладно возбухать, мне дед рассказывал, как у него украинцы разбегались в отступление 41-го по домам, особенно западные, уж очень им лучшей жизни хотелось.
cynical bastard says:
Пошел нахуй, антон-штопаный гандон.
John from Kansas says:
OK
Scrat335 says:
There were some businesses opened in the occupied lands under the Germans. They were owned by Germans of course. The Russians were the workers, at least the ones that were not deported as slave labor to Germany and Poland.
Texas1 says:
Like in any army, the majority were just average people with common beliefs. They were not evil, they were just ordinary people.
StefanM says:
I’m german. One of my grandfathers fought in World War II as a Wehrmacht-Soldier one year at the Eastern Front in belarus and ukraine, till his unit got defeated near tsherkassy and he became a pow and forced to work in coal mines in the Don-area. He told me that he saw suffering way before his unit got defeated, he witnessed “Vernichtungskrieg”, war in its purest and most cruel kind. He told of soldiers both sides beating with sticks and nagging the enemies neck in the moment they run out of ammunition, fighting naked in the snow(they’re pants got out of use, as they suffered typhus and its symptome, diarrhea . They took food wherever they could find it. German soldiers were civilized and had moral beliefs, but similar to the red army soldiers they were often week long left with nothing and no hope for supplies, so they took it no matter from whom.
Many of the dead in the patriotic war got killed by german soldiers, but propaganda wasn’t to strong that every wehrmacht unit burnt down every village they captured.
People died few years before especially in ukraine caused by bad management and stalin’s brutal attitude towards Peasants and minorities. The War and production of arms took most of the Soviet Unions economy – may be a reason for the Famine and high death toll in the war time too.
Ivan Mikhailov says:
“German soldiers were civilized and had moral beliefs”
Of course they were… and had…, just not enough to live in peace with neighbour countries. They were not enough civilized even to respect their own Otto von Bismarck who clearly warned to not attack simultaneosly on West and East and especially warned to not attack even in only one direction if Russia is there. They did not remember your own history and got “POOR” at the exam.
rafal says:
But they took their lesson and now live with neighbors in peace. This is still far before you, living in soviet propaganda world.
Justin says:
Yes, it’s a shame though that baltic states don�t want to live in peace and waste no opportunity to have yet another dig at Russia, don’t you think?
Propaganda world you say? I wonder what sort of “propaganda world” you are living to come out with comments like these:
“Most Russians would love the soviet time to come back again”
“I hope they will fuck you russians out of their country back to Asia Fucking criminals”
Is it Poland?? Ah� well, now that doesn�t even surprise me knowing the sort of xenophobic, anti-semitic, homophobic and racist prick your country has chosen for president. So really, it would appear, that with regards to “propaganda” I can rest my case
talking beaver says:
Justin / Boris Abramow / Washington / Marina:
Blah blah!
Blah blah blah blah blah blah Baltic states Blah blah !!!
Blah blah blah blah blah blah Estonia blah blah blah Blah blah !!!
Blah blah blah blah blah blah Poland blah blah blah Blah blah !!!
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Nazi blah !!!
Blah blah blah blah xenophobic, anti-semitic, homophobic and racist blah blah blah !!!
Blah blah blah!!!! Blah blah blah blah blah blah !!!!
Why can not we all live in peace? (..sigh..)
SovietSweden says:
hahah oh wow, that comment made me laugh :B
rafal says:
If any minority would behave like Russians in the baltic states they would be hated wanted to kick out.
“Most Russians would love the soviet time to come back again”
It’s a fact. They dream to be an empire again.
“I hope they will fuck you russians out of their country back to Asia Fucking criminals”
I was angry. Some russians answer deserve it.
Don’t tell me about propaganda. You had soviet one in the past and now you have Putin’s one. Russian people used to do what the communist party boss told them to do, now they do what Putin says. Talking to you about freedom and propaganda is like talking about colours with a blind one.
Justin says:
Rafal, from your previous comments it isn’t too difficult to identify that you are in fact hatemongering nationalist, and the fact that you have now discerned �Russians� (i.e all Russian minorities) in your latest attack, only reinforces that argument.
“Most Russians would love the soviet time to come back again”
It�s a fact. They dream to be an empire again.”
This so-called �fact� that you talk about, has all the characteristics of anti-Russian propaganda that Baltic States are currently engaged in. Unlike western-European propaganda, or closer to home, the British colonial one, it is not only bias, but is in fact totally groundless and is simply a lie!
So now I challenge you to prove you frankly absurd assertion. Prove that “most Russians would love the soviet time to come back”. If you cannot, however, that stop spreading your xenophobic propaganda and racist lies. We are all pretty tired of it.
“You had soviet one in the past and now you have Putin�s one.”
Now that has got to be the strangest tactic in discrediting one�s opponent that I have ever seen
Are you by any chance implying that I might be Russian? Well, I am sorry to disappoint you, but I am not. Yes, I am that rare breed of westerners that hasn�t fallen victim to the new cold war propaganda. Deal with it!
talking beaver says:
“I am that rare breed of westerners that hasn�t fallen victim to the new cold war propaganda.|
Heh! That is some funny shit!
Some “westerner” …
“The Red Mold” (”krasnaya plesen’”) is the Russian term that comes to mind.
StefanM says:
All in all For me as a german those discussions look poor and useless. For sure the patriotic war took huge impact on the soviet society, but as a modern country why can’t you end discussion about war and communism and turn towards nowaday’s problems?
Communism in the soviet states collapsed 17 years ago and will never return, face it!!!
In the world russia is regarded as a country with ambition to become a great nation again – but if journalists ask normal people out on the streets all you hear and see are old russians complaining that the soviet times were better and young people who are only interested in the fact, that in today’s russia you can buy everything and live the american dream if you’re lucky….
John from Kansas says:
Visitor,…I’m speechless…
John from Kansas says:
Where are those Iranian technicians? We need them to repair this site.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
It is obvious they are needed here, but sadly they are all away working on a light system for a new club in Dubai, which has two dancing rooms�one for classic and cultured music like disco, and one for super-techno. As you can imagine, both require many colorful flashing lights, and much work.
John from Kansas says:
Well maybe Kim Jong-Ir has a few spare technicians he can send.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
What?
I was minding my own business here, not getting in between the fight between the Germans and Russians, and I am ambushed by a threat from USA.
You send your little Condi Rice to see me in Tehran. Tell her to come straight to my place from airport. No stopping in washroom for “freshen up,” and no stopping in duty-free shop for sexy silk panties.
I will show her a thing or two about domination in foreign policy. I will tie her to a bed and then . . . you know.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
Why you attack me here?
I was minding my own business here, not getting in between the fight between the psycho but randy Germans and crazy but sexy Russians, and I am ambushed by a threat from USA.
You send your little Condi Rice to see me in Tehran. Tell her to come straight to my place from airport. No stopping in washroom for �freshen up,� and no stopping in duty-free shop for silky panties.
I will show her a thing or two about “dominating the enemy” in foreign policy. I will tie her to a bed, turn on some Barry White, and . . . you know.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
My two answers her are in response to “United States,” but the stupid reply function is kaput.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
Oh, so NOW it works.
John from Kansas says:
Mahmoud, please don’t call your technicians home just yet.
United States says:
We cannot trust you.
After your latest order of http://englishrussia.com/?p=1670
we are watching you very closely. It is a promise, not a threat.
Oh by the way, we sent you a gift.
You should receive it in the mail soon. It is on us and we pay all the shipping charges. Enjoy!
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
Don’t worry about my previous order–it does not work as advertised. I crawled through every inch of the inside and could not find the problem, and now I have turned it over to Abbas, owner of Tehran’s largest “U-Pull-It” used parts and junkyard.
As for zoo-phonics, I think you Americans need to worry about your own zoo right now, after a Mexican boy got drunk and tried to molest a tiger in a California zoo. The wall was too low and allowed the boy to molest the tiger. This is a shameful example of mistreatment of poor zoo animals.
United States says:
Animals don’t have rights. Send us some of your cows, we can use them in our hamburgers. How much do you charge for a cow?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
Let’s not quibble over a price of one animal. For such long shipping distance to a USA port, why not go for a “package deal”? I can sell you livestock at a bulk rate, especially if you will take Grade B livestock (have been sexually abused). Plus, I will throw into the shipping containers some surprises that you are sure to get a “bang” out of before you even leave the harbor.
We also have some chains and knives left over from the most recent Ashura celebration. I can make you a special deal if you need these celebratory tools to beat and cut yourself with.
Note to security services who monitor internet–the “bang” in a US harbor is a joke. Remember, this is a “humor” site.
United States says:
joke? no jokes here. You are going to get nuked.
Visitor says:
If the US goes to war with Iran, I only have one request–please strap Dick Cheney to the first missile. I am tired of guys like him–a 7-time draft dodger who, now that he’s the “power behind the throne,” wants to send everyone else to war. I prefer leadership by example.
Fortunately we don’t have Donald “I’ll send you all to hell” Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense (thanks to John McCain and a few other people who had the courage to challenge Bush on this issue–if only the Democrats would have raised the issue Bush would have worn their criticism like a badge of honor, but he couldn’t respond to McCain, Chuck Hagel, etc., both of whom are combat veterans).
I’d love to see Cheney, Rumsfeld, and all their young “rooster” staffers–who like to strut and pretend they are “hawks”–humping a rucksack loaded with ammo and radio equipment through the Zagros Mountains, praying the next step won’t put them in the kill zone of a mountain ambush. Sadly, they never will. It’s much easier to sit around in the offices on Capitol Hill, or in the bars of the DC suburbs, and talk tough than it is to look at some guy right before you kill him and then live with it the rest of your life, or hobble around on a stump that used to be a leg, or try to hold your wife with what’s left of your arm, or try to watch your kids grow up through the one good eye you have left . . . if you’re lucky.
John from Kansas says:
Yes, the detestable treatment of American vets both past and present is one of the more disgusting traits of the Yellow Elephant-chicken hawks.
John from Kansas says:
Attacking Iran would not be a wise course of action.
anton says:
Rafal, you are indeed dumb as a monkey. Just like Marina. You are both stupid as hell. One is probably brainwashed by American propaganda, the other was brainwashed by Russian propaganda of the 90-s. Both deserve to die.
John from Kansas says:
Be nice.
Texas1 says:
So you saw the movie too.
Ivan Mikhailov says:
Indeed, some of those who has met regular soldiers only (and has not met SS) lived more or less similarly to Soviet times. Many of those who has met SS during occupation are unable to correct this optimistic impression because they’re dead. Soldiers did not photo mass graves because that happened after they come.
Grand total is very easy to understand. Say, almost all Belorussian villages were visited by SS, hence the population of the republic become 25% smaller during the war. Keep in mind that many people were evacutated before German army comes and many people has left their villages and escape to forests. It means that if you stay in village visited by SS then your chances to survive are close to 2/3. Out of six members of average family, two will be killed. Does this lifestyle look good for you?
That’s why those who glad to see intruders on that photos and survived during occupation were much more happy to see Red Army on its way back to West.
wowBud says:
You Germans want to forget what happened, and paint the rest in better colors, and it is understandable.
Leave Communism or National-Socialism alone, this is all politicians bs.
The core of the matter, it was Germans placing themselves above all else, and in their opinion Russians either were to make themselves useful slaves or die. For Russians, there was no other option but hammer those uber punks back in the s hole they belonged.
Original poster has very cute photos, it is all nice and fine, but those are not all the photos Germans brought back home.
Just to give you little example since kids are prominent there. These great guys, Germans, would use kids aged under 14-16 for blood transfusions to their wounded, well, bleed those kids dry. Those pics are missing, heh?
Stalin may be a terrible guy, but if he took example of Adolf and installed the same rules in East Germany as nazis in Ukraine and Belorussia etc., the only people inhabiting eastern part of Germany today would be Poles. So maybe for some of you, keep that in mind and don’t be so harsh on Mr.Stalin for treating Germans in DDR as human beings.
Otherwise, Germans are great people, and if they keep from letting madness take the best of them, they will be liked a lot more. It starts with mild disdain for your neighbors, and ends with demands to be served, and then there will be smoldering ruins. That’s how that works.
Piesces says:
“… if they keep from letting madness take the best of them, they will be liked a lot more. It starts with mild disdain for your neighbors, and ends with demands to be served …”
Sounds like Putin’s Russia…
John from Kansas says:
…or Bush’s America?
Piesces says:
By the way in “Stalin may be a terrible guy, _but_…” you commit a logical fallacy. You compare both Nazis and Bolsheviks in a category of racism and, drawing right conclusion that Nazis were more racists, you seem to draw a wrong final conclusion that for this reasons Bolsheviks were better than Nazis.
Actually you are comparing apples with oranges.
Yes, Bolsheviks were formally less racist, but they just used different criteria for extermination. That’ s all.
wowBud says:
You still did not say what would happen if Stalin implemented Hitler’s solution for East Germany, if he “was not any better”. Do you mean he tried to “exterminate” those people?
Sure as German, if you are, you have to agree that Bolsheviks were better than National-Socialists. Bolsheviks granted Germans dignity of having their own state and made so bitter memories of war will not put stigma on German people. If that means anything to you of course.
You might want to try to see Russians as friends, then both G and R will have a chance not to get into next lille war that might destroy a lot more than the one before that.
Piesces says:
Oh, you know, I find all this discussion about who is MORE evil, Nazis or Bolsheviks, rather tiresome and fruitless.
Just as a discussion of which one of two dead men is “deadier”.
The point is (at least my point) that they BOTH suck big time.
Bur where Nazis got what they deserved, the Commies did not. And that is a hell of injustice.
wowBud says:
If it is tiresome, stop skewing into that direction.
My message to you is simple: the photos here present situation as if German army broke into Soviet Union to bring some snacks to poor children and give a hug to holy fathers. While many Germans stayed decent people to the extent possible, the reality was that they brought death and misery to those children.
And your references to Communism and such political bs will not change that fact.
Piesces says:
I would comment on that that I consider it obvious that Nazis did not come to liberate Russians from Communists and live further on together in harmony. Their plans were practical and cruel.
At the same time it was not all black and white, and they really gave snacks to children (there is a lot of people who still remember it) and many of contemporary eyewitnesses consider them to be overall better behaving than the Reds.
I do not deny the possibility that some of the photos may be staged, while I do not see anything that as well might not have been there.
We have to remember that this is the classical “Several blind wise men and the elephant” situation. When every glimpse at the events, like this one, shows only a part of the whole.
So German soldiers giving snacks to Russian children does not exclude the other situation maybe few miles away with German SD units executing villagers.
Just like Soviets defeating Nazis does not exclude the fact that they themselves took place of the Nazis, both before and after the WWII.
This http://www.war-memorial.net/imgmem/ehrenmal/2.jpg does not make things like murders, pillaging and raping done by Soviets to go away. Nor it excuses for occupation and control of half of Europe for half a century.
And so on …
Reality is not black-and-white. Propaganda is.
Visitor says:
I think Piesces is making some good points, but your comment: “the photos here present situation as if German army broke into Soviet Union to bring some snacks to poor children and give a hug to holy fathers.” is excellent.
Ivan Mikhailov says:
I’ve dealt with explosives “a bit” but I’ve never seen such mines made in USSR, or any recommendation to make such mines at some circumstances. Could you please mail me one or at least send a link to some photo from trusted source?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
You want someone to send a bomb in a mail package? Are you a Irish?
P.S. Would you you be interested in a job in nice Mediterranean location, south of Turkey and west of Syria? I have friends there who can “hook you up.”
John from Kansas says:
LOL. Priceless.
Germandeath says:
Germans should be exterminated.
John from Kansas says:
..
Texas1 says:
Can we all just rejoice that a senator from Texas brought down the entire Soviet empire. Amen
Texas1 says:
A few might have been US made, but they did not look like toys, they type that the evil russians built. In addition, this was an Israeli war.
John from Kansas says:
Hi cynical.
John from Kansas says:
No one can be excused from the use or manufacture of landmines. Landmines are indiscriminate killers that do not distinguish between a soldier’s footstep or a child’s, between war and peace. Russia, the U.S. and a number of other countries have not signed the treaty banning the use of landmines. All landmines must be banned.
Piesces says:
I bet a lot of people would disagree with you about that.
Piesces says:
From practical point of view land mines are perfect perimeter denial system – cheap, reliable and effective. So I doubt that they will go away any time soon, or ever for that matter. Cruel though…
John from Kansas says:
@Piesces, “Cruel though�”
and immoral. There is no justification for their use.
Mixas says:
executing pow is immoral… killing as many of enemy soldiers as possible is war… no one can change that.
John from Kansas says:
Yes, the torture and execution of prisoners of war is immoral. The indiscriminate killing of non-combatants is also immoral. Land mines do not differentiate between soldiers and civilians.
vadikgg says:
Really, in the occupation beginning in some places of the USSR of Germans met well (the Western Ukraine, the Western Belarus, the Cossack areas). THAT IS those areas which have suffered from communists.
But nazi terror was much more terrible than the communistic.
Mass executions of communists, Jews, gipsies, and т.д were made…
Shot also for non-payment of taxes.
And, the whole villages were often destroyed even. Here the document translated by the computer:
“15th police regiment, on September, 28th, 1942 10th рота. From the report on actions in occupied point Борки from 22 on September, 26th, 1942
On September, 21st, 1942 рота has received the task to destroy the settlement Borki located in 7 km to the east from Мокран. At night the same day platoons роты have been advised of forthcoming operation. Preparation has begun. The number of motor vehicles was sufficient on September, 22nd to ship and send to a gathering place in Мокраны all platoons and the given platoon of 9th роты. Moving has occurred without undue incident, left out of operation was not. Occasions necessary for forthcoming operation were подготовленны beforehand and in due time profits in Борки. At отобрании a supply obstinate peasants whom рота has demanded are revealed some to punish
Operation passed systematically, excepting shifts of its some stages in time. Their principal cause was following. On a card the settlement Borki is shown as compactly located village. It has actually appeared, that this settlement is stretched on 6 – 7 km at length and width. When with a dawn it me has been installed, I have expanded a cordon from an East side and have organised coverage of village in the form of pincers at simultaneous increase in a distance between posts. As a result I managed to grasp and deliver to a place of gathering of all inhabitants has sat down without an exception. Favorable it has appeared, that the purpose for which the population was driven, till last moment to it it was unknown. On a gathering place the calmness reigned, the quantity of posts has been shown to a minimum, and the liberated forces could be used in the further course of operation. The command of grave-diggers has received shovels only on an execution place thanks to what the population remains in ignorance about coming. Imperceptibly installed easy machine guns have suppressed from the very beginning risen was a panic when the first shots from a place of the execution located in 700 m from village have sounded. Two men tried to run, but through some steps have fallen, amazed with machine-gun fire. Execution has begun at 9 o’clock. 00 minutes also has ended at 18 o’clock. 00 minutes From 809 driven 104 persons (politically reliable families) have been released, among them there were working manors Мокраны. Execution passed without any complications, preparatory measures have appeared rather expedient.
Grain and stock confiscation occurred, short of shift in time, systematically. The number a supply has appeared sufficient as the quantity of grain was not great also points ссыпки not threshed grain are located not so far…
House utensils and agricultural stock have been taken away by supplies with bread.
I result a numerical result of execution. 705 persons, from them men – 203, women – 372, children – 130 are shot.
The quantity of the collected cattle can be defined only approximately as on an account assembly point it was not made: horses – 45, large horned livestock – 250, calfs – 65, pigs and pigs – 450 and sheep – 300. The Poultry could be found out only on occasion. That it was possible to find, has been transferred the released inhabitants.
From stock it is collected: 70 carts, 200 ploughs and harrows, 5 winnowers, 25 straw cutters and other small stock.
All confiscated grain, stock and cattle are transferred the manager of state manor Мокраны…
At operation carrying out in Борках it is spent: винтовочных cartridges – 786, cartridges for automatic machines – 2496 pieces. Losses in роте was not. One вахтмистр with suspicion on a jaundice is sent in hospital to Brest.
The deputy the commander роты the ober-lieutenant of security police Muller
Similar operation is shown in a film “Idi i smotri ‘ (” Go and look “). I advise to look.
Here transfers of other German documents:
Read and do conclusions.
Stalin’s communistic system at all its cruelty all the same was better than nazism as she recognised as equal all people and races. In the USSR for a nationality shot nobody. Captured Germans in the USSR did not destroy as Russian in Germany.
Also, by the way, it is not necessary to confuse Stalin’s system that was to it and after it… Those systems were much softer.
Visitor says:
I’m not taking sides in the renewed German-Russian war, but that translated document is full of fascinating details that illustrate the organized, systemic, deliberate activities of a group (Nazis in general) intent on the destruction of a “people.” Thanks for posting it.
Mixas says:
You might want to watch idi i smotri (come and see) – helps a lot in choosing sides
talking beaver says:
You are again taking Stalin’s system at its face value. It did not DECLARE openly that some nations are better than others, while still implemented that in practice.
For example the most of Latvians in USSR in 1937 were executed just for being Latvians. Of course it was not said to be as simply as that. They were executed for “belonging to an underground Nationalist Fascist anti-Soviet network” and for being “spies”. Where the proof of your guilt was your nationality.
Remember Crimean Tatars? The whole of the people deported?
So at different times many nationalities suffered. It was the purest racism, only in camouflaged form.
Everything was camouflaged in USSR.
All people were declared equal, but then some suddenly were found to be enemies of the people, capitalist agents etc. and executed. Of course for the benefit of all mankind.
Circus.
wowBud says:
Crimean Tatars? Good that you brought it up, cos while glorious Manstein was in charge in Crimea, under his watchful eye Crimean Tatars were let to slaughter people of other ethnic groups. About your abstract claims that Latvians were executed just for being Latvians, then well, why there are damn most of them survived ? Are those the same Latvians that send couple of mercenary battalions to be personal guards of Lenin in most critical time of 1917-1924, for some gold in exchange? Call it bad decision making…
Visitor says:
“Call it bad decision making�”
I don’t know who you are, but I love your satire and extreme irony.
talking beaver says:
Heh! Your President Putin once mentioned Latvian Red Riflemen in similar pejorative context.
As a matter of fact, yes, some of the Latvian Riflemen regiments of Russian Tsarist army found sympathy with Bolsheviks in 1917. Why? Because only Bolsheviks were talking(!) about “human rights” and rights of nations for self-determination. Very progressive concepts at the time. Remember how oppressive Russian Empire was to national minorities. So they provided assistance to Lenin. Why Lenin relied on them so much? Because they were disciplined soldiers, unlike the rest of demoralized Russian army. Of course they were not mercenaries and it was not about gold.
By the way, many Latvian soldiers and officers fought on the side of Whites, against Communists.
Some Russian White officers also found refuge in Latvian Republic after 1918 and lived there in peace until in 1940 USSR took over and got them, like Mihail Afanasyev, for example.
It is incorrect to establish any direct link between Latvian Red riflemen and Latvian Republic, as Putin did. Because at the time they were citizens (well, in monarchy they use a different word) of Russian Empire. Independent Latvian Republic was established later and Latvian Red Riflemen even were fighting against it and even established a short-lived Soviet puppet-state. So Latvian Red Riflemen were actually enemies of the Latvian free republican state.
So all your info about “Latvian batallions” is basically wrong. As the Russian saying goes – “Slyshish zvon, da ne znaesh gde on!” “You hear the bell, but do not know where it is!”
As to your question why so many Latvians had survived 1937 killings in USSR, that is because they were at a better place that time – abroad of USSR in their own country, out of reach yet. Many or most of those who were in USSR at a time (including Red Riflemen) – died. Remember, that Stalin was opportunistic, the killings were carried out then and there when needed. Yesterday’s friend could be today’s enemy and “friend” again tomorrow.
And so on.
Yes, about Tatars. Whatever the reason, collective punishment is crime. Thats all.
Germandeath says:
Crimean Turks were collaborators with nazis.
CCCP sux says:
Soviets were Nazi collaborators till June 1941.
Texas1 says:
Let’s see, how many posts on here were written under fake names?
Piesces
Germandeath
Ivan Mikhailov
wowBud
Mikhailov
United States
StefanM
babachkayaga
KanuTaH
Mumu
rafal
Andi
baltiiski
Fuel
Any bets that these are are just 1 or 2 people?
Texas1 says:
Fake
Texas 1 (... not) says:
More than 2.
10$.
P.S. Technically all names here are valid, because there is no way to protect them.
Texas1 says:
I’m also see here 5 Texas1
Texas1 says:
I did not write this !
Mumu says:
NKVD blocking troops wasn’t effective and used at the begining of war as extreme measures.Later on, when army became more battle experienced the usage of NKVD blocking troop was not possible.Armed and experienced soldiers can shoot any directions.
Concerning Soviet policy of Scorched Earth – same policy used in 1812 year during Napoleon invasion. This is typical russian way of war management.
In your message highlighted that nazy came to help soviet people. But soviet people were so stupid and didn’t accept their help. It looks like germans army came, but soviet were killing each other, and nazy not connected to this developments at all.
Anyway both of us are victim of propaganda.But different propoganda guidelines.
Andy from Indy says:
“…your message highlighted that nazy came to help soviet people”
In 1941 Germans went to the East help Ukrainians, Russians and other peoples BUT NOT Soviets!!! You dump sovok please, don’t mix these meanings!
Germans came to liberate the rest of Slavs who wasn’t yet killed by Jewish-Georgian Commissars or wasn’t yet brainwashed and poisoned by the Marxist’s Propaganda.
And they (Germans) would to save whole world from this fucking Bolshevism…
But, Americans deceived by their Jew-Mason President Roosevelt, saved Bolshevism for themselves. And now this one is here in America.
If you are so brainwashed that don’t want to find and apprehend Truth about WW2 and Communism , please don’t spread your Red Lie about it. Not all so stupid and lazy like you.
John from Kansas says:
Take it easy Adolph, you’re getting spit all over yourself.
John from Kansas says:
I have no doubt.
Andy from Indy says:
Hi, everybody!
First. Everyone who lives at west from the line Kursk – Rostov Don – Krasnodar has to understand a f@cking fact that NO PURE Russians live in Russia anymore! Almost. And 99% of those who call themselves “russian” in fact are the Soviets! It’s a new form of human species which was developed by the Satan and his associates: Bolsheviks and Zionists. We, real Russians call those brainwashed bastards “sovki” and “zshidi”.
And second. To all who hate my people, Russians. You guys must to apprehend just one silly thing. Not every each who can speak, write or read russian language is Russian ethnically. It’s simple – prosto! Just like far not every person who can speak or write/read English is Anglo-Sacks (I mean Brit or American). Right? I, personally, do know a bunch of soviet jews who after several years and even months or weeks of living in US call themselves “American”! But they are not Americans! Nor mentally nor genetically!They are all those “sovki”! And they never will be Americans spiritually. They always will be Soviets – Red – Commies internally. And they are like cancer destroying America. Just like they destroyed Russian Empire almost hundred years ago. They twice choose W.Bush for sake of their chimera: the Great Israel. And they again gonna put on your shoulders, my dear Americans, this Italian Jew – Julianie (or how is he…) or some Blomberg-Lumberg!
Oh – ohh…
OK. I am sorry if some one was offended by my writing. But remember, this is my own opinion and my freedom of speech.
Texas1 says:
You fucking moron
Texas1 says:
I didn’t write that comment but I have no idea what this guy is talking about. Can someone please translate this?
John from Kansas says:
It translates into something like “Heil Hitler”.
inger says:
To Andy from Indy: A very prescient comment. Not many of them here. Exactly that, Russia is inhabited mostly by the sovki, and there are a million of them in Israel.
Andy from Indy says:
“…your message highlighted that nazy came to help soviet people”
In 1941 Germans went to the East help Ukrainians, Russians and other peoples BUT NOT Soviets!!! You dump sovok please, don’t mix these meanings!
Germans came to liberate the rest of Slavs who wasn’t yet killed by Jewish-Georgian Commissars or wasn’t yet brainwashed and poisoned by the Marxist’s Propaganda.
And they (Germans) would to save whole world from this f*cking Bolshevism…
But, Americans deceived by their Jew-Mason President Roosevelt, saved Bolshevism for themselves. And now this one is here in America.
If you are so brainwashed that don’t want to find and apprehend Truth about WW2 and Communism , please don’t spread your Red Lie about it. Not all so stupid and lazy like you.
Texas1 says:
Who wrote this crap go to hell
Conrad F says:
This article is highly unnecessary or even dangerous as it mixes photos made for propagandistic purposes with ordinary snapshots.
adolf hitler says:
Yes unfortunately the sovki (from the word Sovietskij-soviet, shortened to Sovok which means “shovel”) are everywhere both in Russia and in other countries, and where they are not there is an equivalent to them.
Those are the people that believe that if 10 people die for the “right” reasons, they may be forgotten and their butchers forgiven, but if 1 person dies at the hands of a politically oppositional enemy then that is horrible, a holocaust etc.
SOVKI, 8&9 MAYA, “VELIKAYA OTECHESTVENNAYA”, ZIDJUGA STALIN, KOM.PARTIJA, VSE SO SKOROSTJUY 120 SHAGOV V MINUTU IDUT ****NAAAAAAAHHHHHUUUUIII****
maxD says:
It is not a lie.
Read Vasili Grossman’s writings on Stalingrad etc. He was the most eloquent writer on the Russian side and was present at almost very major battle during WWII. Did not get the Stalin-prize for journalism because Stalin didn’t want a jew to have this honor. His writing is above any suspicion. He is describing this and many other horrors.
War brings out the worst in people, and if they are not much [ethically speaking] to begin with, you can guess the outcome.
The russian army became so brutal during it’s march to Berlin that many civilians found the German occupation almost to be like a vacation. Check wikipedia for background if you care. Grossman’s novels: most famous one ‘Life and Fate’. Small introduction: ‘Everything flows’. These are novels. There are also collected journalistic writings available, i.e. about Stalingrad.
John from Kansas says:
I have found the book of Grossman’s writing as a war correspondent but still search for his novels. Thanks for the recommendation.
Mixas says:
http:// en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Come_and_see
Piesces says:
And what about Bolshevik collaborators?
Well, I now the answer … I guess we will just go on with Russian Embassador shaking their hands and issuing honors … Including those accused, tried and found guilty of war crimes, like burning pregnant women alive (Comrade Kononov) etc.
Piesces says:
Was that a joke or you are indeed stupid?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
They are all working on a light system for a new club in Dubai, which has two dancing rooms–one for classic and cultured music like disco, and one for super-techno. As you can imagine, both require many colorful flashing lights, and much work.
dm says:
As an American who grew up during the end of the Cold War (’70s) and fearing that Soviets wanted a nuclear war….
Russian people should know that American children were NEVER TAUGHT IN SCHOOL about how MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of Russians died in WW2. Yes, we knew they were invaded, but the sheer scale of the starvation and suffering and destruction and death, was not talked about in America and certainly not taught in school.
If we had had this knowledge, Americans would have been much more skeptical about the propaganda that Russian people or even the Russian government wanted a WW3… in short, our leaders deliberately kept this knowledge of past history from us to keep us frightened and stupid and hating and fearing Russian people!!!
The more I find out about how much the Russian people suffered in WW2, the more DISGUSTED I am at American leaders and the American educational system… a LIE of omission, keeping the American children stupid for political purposes.
Visitor says:
The libraries where I lived had numerous books and periodicals that contained information about the Eastern Front, the Soviet effort/sacrifice, and the fact that the US and USSR, along with lots of other countries, were allies against the Axis powers. Various US military schools taught “lessons learned” that included Eastern Front battles–not as much as battles the US military participated in, but they certainly weren’t “omitted,” and they weren’t discussed in an environment of secrecy.
The fact that most Americans focused on the Anglo-American effort is not so much a deliberate “omission” as it is natural proclivity of people everywhere to celebrate their own accomplishments. It’s both a celebration of “victory” and an acknowledgement of the sacrifice made by “our people.” It’s not all deliberate “propaganda.”
However, if you are one of the countless thousands of Americans who had your head up your ass when you were a “student,” instead of paying attention to the world around you and the freely available knowledge, or if you are just another loser who now blames his country for the fact that he/she has a loser life, then it’s no wonder that you have this attitude.
As for “keeping the American children stupid for political purposes” . . . while you’ve been out “discovering” the Soviet effort in WW2, have you also read any of the speeches made by Soviet leaders about the West, capitalism, democracy, etc.? Do you know what the Comintern is? Do you think people like Vladimir Putin, while working in Germany during the Cold War, were just compiling economic statistics in preparation of a big celebration whenever the West German economy collapsed and the East gained prominence? What do you think all the Soviet military advisors all over Africa and Latin America in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s were doing? Spreading democracy?
Don’t blame your government/country for your own freely-chosen ignorance and stupidity. Accept a big challenge and take a little responsibility for yourself. It is (or used to be) the “American way.”
P.S. to Boris and John–I’m back.
John from Kansas says:
Do you think the U.S. was spreading democracy?
Visitor says:
Not necessarily. I do not have a romanticized or idealistic view of US foreign policy. The foreign policy of any nation should be to protect the interests of that nation. That is why I’m a little amused when I hear people in the US get all upset over Putin. If I was Putin I would want to strengthen Russia too, especially after what they went through in the 1990s. That doesn’t mean I understand or agree with his methods, but that’s for the Russian people to decide . . . up to a point, unless and until he scares the living hell out of enough people in Western Europe to shake things up.
I think most of what the US did concerning democracy during the Cold War depended on what was: 1) plausible and realistic in the context of the culture of the nation in question, and 2) the “best interest” of the US and/or a US ally, determined rightly or wrongly (and I admit it was a mixed bag) by the people in charge at the time.
One example I’ll use is El Salvador. If I would have been a landless peasant in El Salvador in the 1970s I would have probably joined the rebels. However, if I was a US policy maker I probably would have done like presidents Carter and Reagan, and done just about everything I could to keep the forces supported by communist entities from gaining control of a region anywhere near the Panama Canal (which was more critical/strategic then) or our borders.
Lots of liberals in the US conveniently forget that it was Jimmy Carter, “Mr. Peacemaker,” who instigated quite a few covert operations in quite a few countries during his tenure. Why? I think because he knew more about what the Soviets were up to than his critics on the right give him credit for. After all, a US Naval Academy graduate and former nuclear submarine officer who served during a really “warm” period of the Cold War isn’t likely to be too naive about geopolitics and military strategy.
Eisenhower, Johnson, and Reagan get most of the criticism for US activities in other countries during the Cold War. But, the House of Representatives controls the purse strings of our national budget, including military and intelligence activities. Both houses of Congress and all their respective committees were controlled by the Democratic Party throughout the ’70s and ’80s, and often by the same men for years, regardless of who was President. Most of those guys knew what was going on in the covert world and why, or else it never would have gone on as long and/or often as it did. They like to plead ignorant, but they really aren’t in most cases–at least not the Chairmen and Ranking Members of the committees involved.
I kind of rambled here, but I tend to do that when politics and history is involved. Granted, this is just my opinion based on my perspective. I know others will differ.
John from Kansas says:
That is a fairly accurate picture of how it works. But is a policy of subverting democracy in the long term interest of the United States?
Visitor says:
I started and erased this reply three or four times, and finally decided that about the only way we’ll ever have a good, complete discussion about this is if we are sitting across the table with either a pot of coffee or a pitcher of beer between us.
But I guess the short answer, in general, is “no.” Of course, I don’t include an armed rebellion as a democratic movement. That’s not a criticism of armed rebellions though because, after all, that’s how we got our start.
John from Kansas says:
If you ever come through Kansas City let me know and we�ll have that discussion. In the meantime mosey over to the Forum (the reply function works there), brew a fresh pot, and start pounding those keys.
Texas1 says:
Quote: “Russian people should know that American children were NEVER TAUGHT IN SCHOOL about how MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of Russians died in WW2.”
That is because Russians were insignificant now like they were back then. …Russians are just like addicts, they think that everything should be about them.
talking beaver says:
Of course Soviets did not want WW3.
Who wants war?
Wars cost money and introduce an element of non-predictability, especially if it is a nuclear war.
They just wanted to expand their influence, the power base consisting of Communist run countries and semi-legal Communist sympathizer organizations in other countries, to promote their cause in pursuit of global dominance. Just what Putin’s Russia is doing now.
Why do you need a war if you can do without it?
Of course before nuclear era Soviets were not so picky. Remember invasions of Poland, Besarabia, Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia …
Mixas says:
the most predictable war – nuclear… put a blanket over your head and crawl to the nearest graveyard.
Andy from Indy says:
It because your country (the USA), your government (Congress), your religion (Protestant Christianity) and your money (dollar) under the control of “god chosen people”.
Only this small hook-nosed people “have right” to survive genocide and oppression because of their ethnicity , but not Slavs (Ukrainians, Russians, Poles etc.)
And you Americans help them to spread their control and lie everywhere around the globe. You are sending your sons and daughters to die for sake of their glory and power.
Because most of you, my dear Americans, so brainwashed and and lazy to find Truth, that you will trust to anybody who says your: “Your are great, your are most great, your are greatest…” And this American-Jews controlled media tells your every second this blarney. Your are (Americans) most deceived people in the word.
Visitor says:
It’s obvious you have a large chip on your shoulder about Jews and Christians. We’ll pray for you.
Now, where’s my latest issue of the “Jerusalem Post” . . . .
Justin says:
Wow! From the pure amount of comment that seem to somehow condone or even defend the Nazis, I cant help but wonder if englishrussia has in fact been taken over by the Baltic Nazis.
Of course what we see in the west as Nazism, among the population of Baltic Sates, is considered to be �patriotism�, so I�m not really that surprised.
On the other hand, I am glad that readers will now see just how narrow-minded, deluded, brainwashed and racist, people from baltic states have become under their Nazi governments. I am also glad that more people will now question why these counties are at all in the EU, if they are publicly denying the Holocaust, glorifying the Third Reich and repressing ethnic minorities. Certainly some food for thought…
Texas1 says:
But we are the greatest nation on the planet.
Texas1 says:
I didn’t write that comment but I have no idea what this guy is talking about. Can we get a translator?
eliseizorine says:
i agree with you; its nice to find other people who are not afraid of the truth; unfortunately however this has all been said before & other than mentioning human casualties no one is willing to “avenge the dead”; i propose to start anti-german campaing by first of all , vandalizing german cemetries near st petersburg, the perhaps selectively destroying large quanteties of german properties in central russia & volga and after it should pick up as a wave of righteous things to do!
ps: best way to vandalize a cemetrie is to unearth alot of bodies , they reburrie them vertically half way in the ground and attach their arms together, it will make a nice fence!
Justin says:
Germany has paid for its Nazi crimes. Baltic countries have not! If anything they are now trying to revive the old glorious days under Nazi “liberation”.
Justin says:
No ONE nazi criminal has been brought to justice, on the contrary, they are walking side-by-side with government officials paying their respects to the butchers of the Holocaust
talking bevaer says:
1) Here you are cheating! This is a trick of the standard set.
Nazi criminals have not bean brought to justice in Baltic states (which is not exactly correct, but never mind), in short because these states have been part of the USSR for 50 years and those few Nazi criminals that were there were taken care of by Soviets on timely bases. As simple as that.
Knowing how Soviets murdered thousands of innocents, it is an illusion to think that some Nazi criminal would have survived there.
So let us thank Communists for that and shut up, darling!
2) As for walking side-by-side, see repost from above:
———–
As a matter of fact the dreaded “SS march” (Russian mass media started to call it like that) is nothing of the sort. Although it is extremely (!) extensively used by Russian propaganda since Putin came to power.
It actually is a commemoration of soldiers, who died in war while fighting on German side against Red army (which had invaded and occupied their country in 1940), similarly like Finns did. Event consisted of placing flowers in front of monument of Freedom by their relatives. That is all. The date was chosen for the first major battle on Eastern front with mass casualities (At that time they did not use body bags, they buried them in mud in the swamp). Soldiers mostly were conscripts mobilised by Germans against the rules of Geneva convention. It is rather mean to use grief of people for political revenue. Disgusting even. You would be ashamed if you would have shame.
You might want to look here for some info: Latvian legion soldiers at Nuremberg Tribunal
Quote for you:
“In 1946 next to English and American armies there were founded so called Guard companies. (The first one was called Viesturs company.) Legionaries were recognized as units in no way connected to the crimes of SS.” “Four companies (approx. 1000 men), including Viesturs company, in 1947 took over the guard at the Nuremberg Palace of Justice (!) and the prison!”
“Paramilitary units of Latvians and Estonians in Germany were also working at the Nuremberg Trials (1947 – 1949), where they were guarding war criminals. […] guard posts were located not only at the perimeter of the Palace of Justice, but also at the doors to the cells. Baltic guards were escorting inmates to the walking areas and to the interrogations. […] Only two functions at the Nuremberg Trials were performed by American military police: escort of inmates in the court hall and to the execution (hanging).” “When Berlin crisis took place and airlift for supply of West Berlin started to operate, viesturians were transferred to the forests near the border to secure the most important field storages of the USA Army. After that Latvian guards were transferred to the surroundings of Stuttgart to guard USA Army corps headquarters”.
AdolphPutin says:
You still wear the combat boots in shower?
Visitor says:
John has a very romantic notion of what socialism is. I think he spent too much time in Paris cafes.
I know, I know, John . . . I’m making assumptions again.
Piesces says:
Watch your language, bozo!
At that time “Russia” meant “Russian Empire” which stretched Westwards beyond Warsaw.
If you want to start pealing off all the territories and people conquered at different times, to leave only the “true Russia”, I am afraid that you will and up with Moscow district (Muscovy) and Ivan Kalita – collaborator of Mongols, thug and traitor. (Model citizen of Putin’s Russia?)
ABC says:
BS
Piesces says:
Come on, John! You are overly idealist again!
The justification for their use (as for use of any weapon) is their effectiveness. While they are effective they will be used.
Only laughing gas might be humane killing tool. And still that would leave a lot of moral questions to be answered…
Tank says:
Fucking Nazi
John from Kansas says:
!
Andy from Indy says:
Some information for the poor educated Americans and others…
Moscow IS NOT Russia! And was not Russ’ since beginning. It was a Muscovite’s Land. And until now this place is populated with anything but Russians.
Moscow is a shit-house of Russia and muscovites are not Slavs or Russians. This facts are historically and genetically proved.
ABC says:
@ Andy
Why does ethnicity matters to you so much? Oh, on the other hand don’t answer that, I think I might know why.
Andy from Indy says:
If you know the answer, why do you ask?
Listen buddy, if your own ethnicity doesn’t mean for you anything. If you don’t care who was your mama and papa, where they came from and what is the history of your kin, I know who you are.
You are a bastard!
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says:
Hello my friend.
May I recommend some relaxing aroma-therapy for you, to soothe your angry nerves?
Just sit back, relax, enjoy the fragrance of therapeutic oils, listen to (and maybe hum along with) soft sound of BeeGees sing nice love song called: “(Our Love) Don’t Throw It All Away.” Here, I will help you get started. Imagine me singing along, softly, with you . . .
Maybe I don’t wanna know the reason why
But lately you don’t talk to me
Darling I can’t see me in your eyes
I hold you near but you’re so far away
And it’s losing you I can’t believe
To watch you leave and let this feeling die
You alone are the living thing that keeps me alive
And tomorrow if I’m here without your love
You know I can’t survive
Only my love can raise you high above it all
Don’t throw it all away , our love , our love
Don’t throw it all away , our love
Don’t throw it all away , our love , our love
Don’t throw it all away , our love
There now . . . you forget all about these angry ethnic issues.
Yours in successful aroma-disco-therapy,
M. Ahmadinejad
Andy from Indy says:
thanks buddy. you helped me much. i feel better. but i would be even much-much better if you send me some herb medicine from your lovely afganistan.
maxD says:
This ethnical proudness stems from a deeply rooted minority complex imo.
Those who find nothing in themselves to be proud of start looking for something else: their nationality, race, a popular football team..
Be constructive – do something constructive with your life, so you can be proud of yourself. Hating others will never lead to anything good.
Piesces says:
Come on, maxD! You are overshooting here!
What is wrong with ethnical /national proudness?
Why should not people from Holland be proud about their wooden shoes, costumes, dams, windmills etc., for example?
Why should not folks from Denmark be proud about their past Viking glory?
That is the way of self-identification of people. If you drop it you get a faceless mass, “white noise”, just like when you pull out antenna of the TV set and all the colors and patterns disappear into gray chaos.
Being proud and confident of oneself is good.
It has nothing to do with “hating others”.
Being arrogant is what is bad. Which in ethnic / national context would be being chauvinist.
maxD says:
In itself it should be harmless, but it is not.
Like I put it, for many people this ‘pride’ starts being a goal in itself. Turns into us-against-them way of thinking.
Something to identify with, nothing wrong there. But more often than not it starts derailing. Blocks introspection, as is often seen in the comments here. Being born Russian or Dutch or Danish, you can identify with it, but actually, in itself there is nothing to be proud of. It is not an accomplishment, is it ? It just happened.
My point is : be constructive, create something which is really your accomplishment. A career, a home-build boat, volunteer work, raising your kid, whatever. Now that is something to be proud of. That is something others can live up to. Being a Manchester United fan or being a Jew: not really. It is just a label.
Piesces says:
Perfect insight!
ABC says:
Clearly estonian, latvian and polish racists have found a new supporter.
talking beaver says:
Hi there summoned, ABC!
I forgot to mention you in a raw with other comrades – Justin, Boris Abramov, Washington, Marina.
I hope you will forgive me.
ABC says:
Why does ethnicity matters to you so much? Oh, on the other hand don’t answer that, I think I might know why.
talking beaver says:
1) I just wonder why they (as so many others) were collaborators? Was that because (a) they were inherently evil or (b) because they wanted to get rid of Communist yoke and saw Germans as their liberators sincerely believing that things may change for better?
2) For whatever reason, I guess you consider it good decision to apply collective punishment and penalize the nation as a whole? Is it not in a way similar to what Nazis did with Jews?
Texas1 says:
Cocksucker !
talking beaver says:
1) I just wonder why they (as so many others) were collaborators? Was that because (a) they were inherently evil or (b) because they wanted to get rid of Communist yoke and saw Germans as their liberators sincerely believing that things may change for better?
2) For whatever reason, I guess you consider it good decision to apply collective punishment and penalize the nation as a whole? Is it not in a way similar to what Nazis did with Jews?
Justin says:
“Penalize the nation as a whole”? Who? Where? Why?
Baltic States are the ones who are representing ethnic minorities. And from comments such as these…
“I hope they will fuck you russians out of their country back to Asia Fucking criminals”
“Estonia 4 Estonians Russians and Jews out”
it’s clear that not only your governments are to balme, but also the racist baltic public. And if any punishment should be applied, it should be applied on the basis of crimes currently committed by the Baltic States, history can remain just that.
talking beaver says:
F#ck you, hatred mongering monkey!
That is what you and your comrades and/or other impersonations have been doing here for a long time!
Get lost, pest!
Do something useful if you know how to!
Justin says:
Nothing to say, huh? Nothing that is going to justify such blatant racism and intolerance. Just as I thought!
talking beaver says:
I was just passing by, so even though I do not consider your comment worth of commenting, I will say this just for sake of correctness:
- As of first comment, see poster’s reply above. Due to your constant provocations you naturally do get emotional responses from people. What else would you expect? Love? Sooner you get a conditioned reflex of people throwing up at your sight. Anyway it seems to be your goal to provoke. So nothing to make fuss about, really. You got what you wanted.
- As of second comment, look into the history of this site. The comment was faked, most likely by yourself, to discredit the poster and use it as an argument to your own political advantage. Dirty game. Was that the way you were taught to construct cases? Very skilled move, my compliments!
And a very personal message: F#ck you, vermin!
Justin says:
Wow, talking beaver is talking about provocation. Now isn�t that ironic when almost every post that talking beaver and his aliases rafal, baltiiski, Piesces and many others post are not only provocative, but are in fact blaintantly racist, xenophobic, anti-Semitic and just plain hatful.
Just for laughs, beaver, can you give me just ONE example of where I have been provoking people? Just ONE – I challenge you. I, on the other hand, can give you dozens of example (many again made by your aliases) which are not only provocative, but are in fact very dangerous, – rants which in many countries would fall under Hate Crimes.
1. Again beaver, your or �rafal�s� comments have nothing to do with provocation, but have everything to do with your dangerous mindset. Sadly, you are not the only Balt with such a mindset. From my observations during my travels I have noticed that in fact the majority of Baltic population hold such nationalist, racist, neo-Nazi views. Again, that doesn�t really surprise me. If we think about the level of nationalist in the Baltic media, combined with the neo-Fascist actions of the Baltic governments, I am not surprised that such a great proportion of Balts hold such distorted and hatful world view.
2. �As of second comment, look into the history of this site�
Beaver, be a man for ones in your life and admit to your own words. Or are you worried that it would tarnish your reputation? Well, beaver, never fear, it has been tarnished a long time ago by all your other racist comments.
The most important issue to consider, whether you deny your comment or not, is that your message got across �Estonia 4 Estonians, Russians and Jews out� and lets face it, getting that message across was your main objective.
And this is my message to you Beaver: You are a Catholic, right? Read the Bible more often! See how many people who you �worship� are in fact Jews. Yes, that�s the same Jews that you want out of Estonia.
Shame on you anti-Semite �Christians�
talking beaver says:
Holy crap!
Poor man …
talking beaver says:
There is a saying – “When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks back into you”.
It is terrible that you do not even realize that your blinding hatred has turned you yourself into THAT which you seem to hate so much.
Texas1 says:
Go to hell you all !
talking beaver says:
Patience, Texas1!
Adapt!
Think of what Evolution would do in situation like this.
Texas1 says:
Someone else is using my name.
Andy from Indy says:
Hey, Johnny! What is going on?
John from Kansas says:
Trying to circumvent the #@%&*! reply bug.
John from Kansas says:
#
John from Kansas says:
…Zenit SLR cameras. Good quality and performance, low cost.
glvoid says:
as a daily reminder please do not forget to read http://www.prophetofdoom.net/ and beware of muslims in general: they are out there to take over the world & to kill your children, and if you dont have children, then perhaps your pets ? i dont know whats on their agenda, but statistically it is something really fucked up and violent, that i can assure you of.
Andy from Indy says:
hey buddy i would give you an address for much informative site
http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/benjamin_freedman/ben_freedman_on_the_jews.htm
look this is some short excerpt
” The word, “Jew,” was coined for a purpose by the people who got us into two wars, who laid a trap to get us into a third one, and who have practically taken over the control of the world, especially the control of this country according to Senator Fulbright and others. So it’s about time that you learned the basics and did something about it. I am certain that, unless something is done to change the thinking of the 200,000,000 U.S.A. Christians, that this country is headed for disaster! There are 200,000,000 Christians in this country who have been brain-washed, from morning to night, by radio, press, television, motion pictures, every media – the mass information has been used to deceive you into believing things that they knew were deliberate lies and part of their scheme to brainwash you. One of them is the word, Jew!
Now, in the Middle East, you know the situation. The United States has been supplying, since the end of World War II, 32 billion dollars of the taxpayer’s money. 95% of that 32 billion dollars was used by the Congress of the United States, after you paid that money into the Treasury, to make the United States the accomplice, the ally, of thieves and murderers; to aid and abet them to hold on to their stolen loot -territory that they acquired by invading Palestine and driving the indigenous population out of the country that they had inhabited for 2,000 years!
Now you were taught by the Christians; you are taught by your ministers, by your priests, . . . You have been told that it is your Christian duty to help repatriate God’s Chosen People to their promised land. You have been told that by every media of mass information, including the pulpit, including every other means by which they can shape your thinking: “That it is your Christian duty to help repatriate God’s Chosen People to their promised land.”
glvoid says:
so … what do i do with this? how does this information stops
chechens from throwing a russian child from 6th floor of apartment block, or stops beheading of serbs by albanians, or saves my german shepard from tatars who cooked her & served to tourists as shishkebab, or my buddy zomber who burned to death in a burned down btr or my OBJ teacher who lost his foot in afghanistan or my country that cant seem to kill its enemy?
can you share a link with an answer?
glvoid says:
andy are you muslim if so you must know that even though people here mostly use english to comment we are russians; we do not give a flying fuck about your jew infested us of a thats your problem now, just stay the fuck away from my country theres pleanty if you to deal with already;
Andy from Indy says:
You are Russian?!
Your are fucking sovok because your are dancing under the zionists music! Look at around if you Slav. How many Slavic people you see on TV, Media, Bussiness, goverment etc.? Who do you see? Russians?…
Dump.
maxD says:
You just underlined your silly-ness. Are you aware of that ?
Andy from Indy says:
And I bet for those names all have an Israel’s or Moscow’s IPs
Am I right?
Texas1 says:
hmm, that would be interesting to know. These names only show up when there is something on here about Nazism.
Andy from Indy says:
this one was a replay about fake names here in this forum
Chadwick says:
TONY SNETHEN THAT WORKS AT VML IN KANSAS CITY IS A LESBIAN
MollyArtsy says:
HA, ha, ha! Its true.
Texas1 says:
That would be interesting to know. These names only show up when there is something on here about Nazism.
Nipple says:
All Ruskies, Krauts, and Stupid yankee types should be shot and their cocks fed to rabid “jew” dogs.
John from Kansas says:
BS.
John from Kansas says:
I have found the book of Grossman’s writing as a war correspondent but still search for the novels. Thanks for the recommendation.
maxD says:
Try amazon.com – the second hand section. Shouldn’t be too troublesome…
John from Kansas says:
Indiscriminate is the key word.
John from Kansas says:
That’s the spirit.
John from Kansas says:
The Lada was not copied. It was built under a joint license agreement with Fiat. One of the most produced cars in the world, the Lada was not intended to compete with cars like BMW. It was cheap transportation.
Pacific NW says:
This was the most retarded thing I’ve ever seen on this website.
Twister says:
I know.
Sean says:
Interesting Images, it goes to show that Soviet Propaganda about Germans bringing Armageddon to the overrun areas of Russia wasnt completely true.
I little doubt the NKVD if it identified any of these Civilians in the Photographs had them sent to Count trees in Siberia (or Worse, the usual 7.62 Tokarev to the back of the neck, ala Katyn).
Frankly, I dont see how this is “Pro-Fascist” or “Pro-Nazi”, it just shows that ordinary Russian Peasants coexisted with German Soldiers in the Occupied areas. I note the Older Gent with the Kar98k Rifle to have possibly been a “Hiwi”
Anna says:
Don’t forget that most of these pictures were made because of propaganda reasons. I know about life of my relatives, it was terrible. And my grandfather, a boy of 14 at that time, was working with his friends in the fields several days and nights in row, while the line of front was only 10 km away. And he would never smile and make photo with a nazi!
Hui Lee says:
Fuck Israel Fuck USA Fuck Britain Fuck Germany Fuck you All !
Anna says:
Propaganda of Gebbels!
Better see here:
(unfortunately, only in Russian).
It is about Russian and Ukrainian young partisans (most of them were school children, about 16-17 years old), how they were struggling against nazi and almost all of them were killed after terrible tortures.
talking beaver says:
What a nice example!
We learned about them in school back then in USSR.
Every kid in USSR was taught about these Holy Martyrs, created by Soviet Agitprop, and had to pass tests on that.
There were a lot of others like them.
One of the most famost was Pavlik Morozov – the kid, fiery young Communist (Pioneer) who denounced his own father to cheka (Communist secret police) for being “kulak” (Which resulted in his death, of course. The father’s that is), but was killed by other evil “kulaks” for that. For this he was canonized as a Hero and Holy Martyr of Bolshevism (well, they did not exactly use these terms, but the idea was like that).
We all were taught to be like Pavlik. To denounce our parents to the regime.
These “Young Guard” semi-mythical characters are of the same Pantheon.
This is how Propaganda has removed any last chance of possibility for sober attitude to reality from Russian heads.
Fine illustration.
P.S. Not that these individuals could not have existed. Pavlik is said to have really denounced his relatives. He had been local village retard.
Anna says:
Don’t forget that most of these pictures were made because of propaganda reasons. I know about life of my relatives, it was terrible. And my grandfather, a boy of 14 at that time, was working with his friends in the fields several days and nights in row, while the line of front was only 10 km away. And he would never smile and make photo with a nazi!
John from Kansas says:
If you ever come through Kansas City let me know and we’ll have that discussion. In the meantime mosey over to the Forum, brew a fresh pot, and start pounding those keys.
Elkman says:
Prior to stating how perfect living under Nazi was, find and read how many soviet villages and towns disappeared completely from Earth surface as the result of Nazi invasion…
talking beaver says:
Well, well. That is a pity of course. (And no one here seriously says that Nazis were good, make that clear.)
While still it would be appropriate to remember, that:
- Nazis till the very early morning of the day of attack very Friends and Partners of Your country.
- Until the very latest moment Soviets helped and supported Nazis, even shared the Europe between them
- USSR was not innocent victim. It had itself attacked many countries before that. And even kicked out of League of Nations for doing so!
- Soviets in parallel with Nazis leveled towns and cities by artillery fire and areal bombardment, so that here was not a chimney standing. Who destroyed more cities remains to be answered.
For a change, why don’t you go and read about Soviet bombing of Helsinki in 1939, for example.
Elkman says:
That is perferct if nobody here really thinks that Nazi was good… However there is a lot of such all around the world, in particular, in Ukraine and Baltic States.
1) Friends? I’m not sure. But the partners – yes as two outlawas among “civilized capitalistic countries”.
2) Everybody consideres this as sharing Europe. While USSR took back the territories taken away from them during Civil War and Intervention in 1918-1920.
3) In that particular war (Great Patriotic War and even WWII) USSR was a victim… an innocent victim. If we recall all previous wars and attacks we would hardly find any innocent country (even Finland by the way).
4) Sounds like Hitler said: “If a thief had stolen your money and you took this money back from him, would you become a thief too?” I believe there can be no questions who was right and who was wrong in that war.
I have read so much about the Winter War (1939-1940) and about bombing Helsinki in particular. I’m not justifying civilians dead, however it was fault of finnish government that the Winter War had started. Their behaviour was much more aggressive and they made no steps to resolve the issues peacefully, while the USSR did.
talking beaver says:
Oh, believe me, nobody here in Baltic states seriously thinks that Nazis were good.
The point is that people do not think that Soviets were any better.
That is what drives Russia crazy, because this eliminates moral grounds for traditional Russian Soviet “you owe me, so obey and do what I say” (or else) policy.
Today Mr. Lavrov, Russian Foreign Minister, in press conference again was bitching about “some NATO members who are re-writing history and glorifying Nazis”. What a patience…
Coming back to your comment:
1)
OK, let it be “partners” then.
As of your “civilized capitalistic countries” I guess you have special attitude to “capitalistic” and you do doubt that Western countries are civilized?
(BTW, why totalitarian countries run by Fuhrers, killing their own citizens and invading other countries and killing other people there should not be “outlaws”?)
2)
USSR “took back”?
I thought USSR did not exist until 1924. But I am glad that you admit the fact, which is actually well known to everyone, that USSR in fact was just another incarnation of Russian Empire.
Also I doubt that it really had right to just “take back” what it thought it “rightfully owns”. If you follow this logic, modern Russia can “take back” Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Moldova, half of Poland and many other countries (which seems it has not given up thinking about).
If you follow this logic, you also can claim that in 1939 Nazi Germany rightfully “took back” Western part of Poland (while Eastern part of Poland as rightfully “taken back” by Russia, as you stated in your comment). Why? Because it had annexed Austria, which used to be main part of Austro-Hungarian Empire, which used o own that part of Poland. I just wonder why Great Britain declared war on Germany. Damn Brits! War mongers!
(Soviet propaganda actually used to picture Great Britain as war mongers before WWII, while making friends (sorry, “partners”) with Nazis).
If you follow this logic, Mongolia owns Russia, because Mongol Golden Horde once owned it.
3) Old Good “Great Patriotic War”.
How do you make Russians proud of themselves? You take the World War, subtract everything you SHOULD be ashamed about, and call it something else. Voila! Problem solved!
4) Exactly my point! “Two wrongs do not make one right”. A thug killing another thug does not become model citizen. Communists beating Nazis did not excuse for the fact, that they were more or less the same.
As of Finland again –
“Their behaviour was much more aggressive” – how is that? Ah, I seem to remember. When Russians told them, give part of your country to us, Finns snapped back something like “f#ck you!”. Damn White Finn Aggressors!!!
“they made no steps to resolve the issues peacefully”- Really? What do you mean? Ah, I get it! It is just like a robber saying “It is all his fault. I told him to give me his wallet, but he did comply, so I had to blow his brain out. Poor me.”
You are a perfect Russian. Pure essence. Surprising, but you and most of your compatriots do not see anything wrong with this imperial chauvinist “logic”. You consider it “patriotism”. While everyone else is looking at you with disgust and fear.
Besides it is in full compliance with political position of your country. … Sadly.
Elkman says:
///The point is that people do not think that Soviets were any better\\\
I would make a remark: most of people think that Soviets were worse.
I completely agree with Lavrov: if you install monuments to Nazis (and at the same time remove or even relocate monuments to the Soviets) you are re-writing the history.
1) �civilized capitalistic countries� is a famous established expression… In fact Western Europe have always looked at Russia as at something undeveloped and non-civilized, while there has been no difference between them in the point of view of civilization development. You mention “killing their own citizens and invading other countries” as the reason to becoma an outlaw… well… following your logic France, UK, USA, Finland must be outlaws, aren’t they?
Moreso, the USA appears to be a totalitarian state
2)USSR was established in 1922. Of, course it was an incarnation of the Russian Empire… moreso much stronger incarnation. Tricky man, don’t ascribe me what I haven’t said. I even didn’t mention rightfulness regarding Poland. I have mentioned it was not sharing Europe but taking back territories taken away. Therefore I see no use of your examples with Austro-Hungary. As concerns Brits, yes, they were war mongers before WW2 and had always been. The way they “fulfilled” their treaty with Czecs is, softly speaking, an effrontery.
Oooooohhhhh We have already switched to ownership of one country by the other! The history knows that fact as Yoke. Correct me if I’m wrong
3) “Old Good”? I would say “old terrible”… I personally see nothing funny here. The full name, if you remember, is the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet People Against German Fascist Occupants. Although Germans have never been fascists, this name clearly separates the period of the WW2. At the same time existence of WW2 makes no problem to separate the Winter War as an individual warfare. Fact is fact. Historical term is a historical term.
4) “More or less the same”? Sounds cool! Gold (Au) and lead (Pb) are also more or less the same… just one electron difference
///When Russians told them, give part of your country to us, Finns snapped back something like �f#ck you!�. Damn White Finn Aggressors!!!\\\
Please, don’t play with the facts. There had been many different proposals from the USSR, including to lease, buy and even exchange the territories. Everything had been rejected on the background of accelerated finnish mobilization. As soon as they felt weakness of Russia they immediately tried to attack Petrograd… like an infamous cur. Peacful steps? You want to see how many repeated notes had been submitted by USSR to Finns with the request to stop frontier provocations? Oh, sorry, of course, such a small innocent Finland could not provoke such a giant like USSR was. All this modern bullshit that Finland gave no reason to the USSR to attack them…
Yes, I’m Russian. While alikes of you prefer to shut your eyes on the prerequisites of such behaviour of Russia/USSR. You always see the result without considering the reasons. The example of Finland is the most evident one in this respect. Look through the global history and you will see that Russia/USSR has always been a real goggle-eye for Europe (and USA); they have never needed nor wanted strong Russia. And friendship between them is a fairytail for stupid donkeys.
talking beaver says:
I find your views mostly unacceptable and factually unsound, but I appreciate your serenity and frankness (as compared to the other types here like Boris Abramov / Justin etc.).
So I wish you a nice day!
Elkman says:
Actually I do not believe that any one can convince any forum opponent that his/her point of view is wrong. So in this context all these forum disputes are useless as they never change opinions… Now we have the same…
All the best.
Greetings from Finland says:
This time Russia is run by fascists far more dangerous than the nazis in Germany ever were. You people just can’t seem to be able to live without a cruel dictator in power.
Estonia is a perfect example of a country that is now thriving thanks to not being controlled by the Russian imperialists anymore.
Texas1 says:
True, you know there is a problem when your leader suddenly becomes the riches many in Europe.
Baltic Wolf says:
Paradoxically, russian nation which suffered considerable losses during creation of so called utopian socialism, still tries to defend and rationalize actions of the system. Actually, its a mark of ideal soviet propaganda machine, which remains integrated in modern infrastructures even now.
Here in Lithuania, same contra-arguments are being repeated constantly. Obviously, nothing is going to change from russian positons, especially now, when a new search for a place under the sun, after loosing the cold war, have started – denial of occupation, denial of genocide, denial of harm of communist regime
Everyone in post-soviet countries, who refuses to worship the cult of “liberators” are identified as nazis… We have allready seen the consequences in Estonia.
talking beaver says:
You see, actually what we are dealing with is what is called “Cognitive Dissonance” in psychology.
People are wiling to find wildest excuses for why what they have done are are doing is good, to save themselves from stress. If they do not adjust their actions, they have to adjust their attitude. This actually is a self-defense mechanism, or otherwise they may break their psyche.
In fact we have to pity Russians, because if they will open their eyes and mind, they will start screaming in horror and will burst in tears, realizing who they actually have been and still are. As they partially are aware of that, but do not want to admit it to anyone including themselves, they are so hard clinging to the Communist/Stalinist ideology/Myth which has replaced reality for them.
Russian president Putin clearly proved this by stating in his address to the Nation a while ago, that he
“refuses to admit that several generations of his people have lived in vain”.
This is the answer!
To admit that they have lived in vain or even served Evil is too painful. So let’s not admit! Let’s go on with self-hypnosis of how wonderful we are and have always been, and make anyone who doubts it suffer.
While the fact, that Putin mentioned this, proves that they actually are aware of this problem, but are making conscious effort to not see it.
talking beaver says:
Quote re. aforementioned:
“Cognitive dissonance is often associated with the tendency for people to resist information that they don’t want to think about, because if they did it would create cognitive dissonance, and perhaps require them to act in ways that depart from their comfortable habits. They usually have at least partial awareness of the information, without having moved to full acceptance of it, and are thus in a state of denial about it.”
Fits perfectly!
Nick says:
I think most of you guys are just plain rude, and are behaving like allmost mature kids who do have education but don’t know how to deal with people who have other educations and life-experiences when i look at those first fifty-somthing entries.
you have to understand that not all germans were bad or good, not all russians were bad or good, and that’s the same for the united states and the united kingdom or any country that was in a war a that time.
i think there are no traitors to � country, that doesn’t exist to me, their can only be traitors to good and evil. you only have the power till your death to do what you know is good for the world entire. if you look at history and at every bad thing some person has done bad in his life,you shold interpret it as if you were that person and how you would think or feel if you were in some situation to have better understandings of what happens. It is only the fact that we are so proud of our country’s that if anyone from a certain country, region or even town would do something awfull to one of your relatives, that person would feel all anger coming up against people from there. but everything fades in time, and that goes for hate and love too.,
I don’t think any country or person has to be excused for what he might have done in his life, but i do not think that everybody had to be put in the same pot.
I am from belgium, you might know us from the battle of the ardennes. all of my great grand fathers were killed during the second world war because they were in the resistence and someone tipped them of. I do feel it is an unfair and cruel thing to do but I just don’t feel hate for the germans now. It is only those who are extreme of mind, who get extremist thaughts (either left winged ot right winged) who dig back in history to have us fight and never see that a true friendship CAN exist amongst people.
Justin says:
Rafal, from your previous comments it isn’t too difficult to identify that you are in fact hatemongering nationalist; and the fact that you have now discerned “Russians” (i.e all Russian minorities) in your latest attack, only reinforces that argument.
“Most Russians would love the soviet time to come back again�
It�s a fact. They dream to be an empire again.”
This so-called “fact”, that you talk about, has all the characteristics of anti-Russian propaganda that Baltic States are currently engaged in. Unlike western-European propaganda, or closer to home – the British colonial one, it is not only bias, but is in fact totally groundless and is simply a lie!
So now I challenge you to prove your frankly absurd assertion. Prove that “most Russians would love the soviet time to come back”! If you cannot, however, then stop spreading your xenophobic propaganda and racist lies. We are all pretty tired of it.
“You had soviet one in the past and now you have Putin�s one.”
Now that has got to be the strangest tactic in discrediting one�s opponents that I have ever seen Are you by any chance implying that I might be Russian? Well, I am sorry to diapoint you, but I am not. Yes, I am that rare breed of westerners that hasn�t fallen victim to the new cold war propaganda. Deal with it!
talking beaver says:
“I am that rare breed of westerners that hasn�t fallen victim to the new cold war propaganda.”
Heh! That is some funny shit!
Some “westerner” …
“The Red Mold” (“krasnaya plesen’”) is the Russian term that comes to mind.
Baltic Wolf says:
talking beaver,
I totally agree with you.
Everlasting conscious denial, distortion of facts and many other related actions matches this definition perfectly
Elkman,
“if you install monuments to Nazis (and at the same time remove or even relocate monuments to the Soviets) you are re-writing the history.”
Why should i keep monument which symbolizes occupation, oppresion and genocide to me?
“All this modern bullshit that Finland gave no reason to the USSR to attack them…”
So you mean that we should believe the non-modern russian version? Oh wait there is even three of them
1) Wicked finns responded to abetment of imperialistic states and attacked innocent USSR first.
2) ( applied after famous XX SSKP congress ) Finland repeled pacific mutual help treaty from USSR and agreed upon imperialistic states offer to establish military bases in their territory.
Should i tell you what consequences this treaty brought to Lithuania in 1939-10-10? Estonia in 1939-09-28? Latvia in 1939-10-05?
3) ( applied at the same congress ) Proletariat of Finland decided to make their country as progressive as their neighbours and called for help.
Which one?
_
“Most Russians would love the soviet time to come back again”
After collapse of soviet union, majority of people who where “something” suddenly became “nothing” ( vice versa than after proletarian revoliution ). It would be natural if they prefer soviet times
Actually, there is no need to re-create the collapsed totalitarian apparatus, because the other, far more advanced, far more acceptable system ( authoritarian-”democracy” ) is currently being under establishment.
Baltic Wolf says:
talking beaver,
I totally agree with you.
Everlasting conscious denial, distortion of facts and many other related actions matches this definition perfectly
Elkman,
“if you install monuments to Nazis (and at the same time remove or even relocate monuments to the Soviets) you are re-writing the history.”
Why should i keep monument which symbolizes occupation, oppresions, genocide to me?
“All this modern bullshit that Finland gave no reason to the USSR to attack them…”
So you mean that we should believe the non-modern russian version? Oh wait there is even three of them
1) Wicked finns responded to abetment of imperialistic states and attacked innocent USSR first.
2) ( applied after famous XX SSKP congress ) Finland repeled pacific mutual help treaty from USSR and agreed upon imperialistic states offer to establish military bases in their territory.
Should i tell you what consequences this treaty brought to Lithuania in 1939-10-10? Estonia in 1939-09-28? Latvia in 1939-10-05?
3) ( applied at the same congress ) Proletariat of Finland decided to make their country as progressive as their neighbours and called for help.
Which one?
_______________________________________________________
“Most Russians would love the soviet time to come back again”
After collapse of soviet union, majority of people who where “something” suddenly became “nothing” ( vice versa than after proletarian revoliution ). It would be natural if they prefer soviet times
Actually, there is no need to re-create the collapsed totalitarian apparatus, because the other, far more advanced, far more acceptable system ( authoritarian-democracy ) is currently being under establishment.
Baltic Wolf says:
talking beaver,
I totally agree with you.
Everlasting conscious denial, distortion of facts and many other related actions matches this definition perfectly
Elkman,
“if you install monuments to Nazis (and at the same time remove or even relocate monuments to the Soviets) you are re-writing the history.”
Why should i keep monument which symbolizes occupation, oppresions, genocide to me?
“All this modern bullshit that Finland gave no reason to the USSR to attack them…”
So you mean that we should believe the non-modern russian version? Oh wait there is even three of them
1) Wicked finns responded to abetment of imperialistic states and attacked innocent USSR first.
2) ( applied after famous XX SSKP congress ) Finland repeled pacific mutual help treaty from USSR and agreed upon imperialistic states offer to establish military bases in their territory.
Should i tell you what consequences this treaty brought to Lithuania in 1939-10-10? Estonia in 1939-09-28? Latvia in 1939-10-05?
3) ( applied at the same congress ) Proletariat of Finland decided to make their country as progressive as their neighbours and called for help.
Which one?
_
“Most Russians would love the soviet time to come back again”
After collapse of soviet union, majority of people who where “something” suddenly became “nothing” ( vice versa than after proletarian revoliution ). It would be natural if they prefer soviet times
Actually, there is no need to re-create the collapsed totalitarian apparatus, because the other, far more advanced, far more acceptable system ( authoritarian-democracy ) is currently being under establishment.
Baltic Wolf says:
talking beaver,
I totally agree with you.
Everlasting conscious denial, distortion of facts and many other related actions matches this definition perfectly
Elkman,
“if you install monuments to Nazis (and at the same time remove or even relocate monuments to the Soviets) you are re-writing the history.”
Why should i keep monument which symbolizes occupation, oppresions, genocide to me?
“All this modern bullshit that Finland gave no reason to the USSR to attack them…”
So you mean that we should believe the non-modern russian version? Oh wait there is even three of them
1) Wicked finns responded to abetment of imperialistic states and attacked innocent USSR first.
2) ( applied after famous XX SSKP congress ) Finland repeled pacific mutual help treaty from USSR and agreed upon imperialistic states offer to establish military bases in their territory.
Should i tell you what consequences this treaty brought to Lithuania in 1939-10-10? Estonia in 1939-09-28? Latvia in 1939-10-05?
3) ( applied at the same congress ) Proletariat of Finland decided to make their country as progressive as their neighbours and called for help.
So which one?
______________________________________________________
“Most Russians would love the soviet time to come back again”
After collapse of soviet union, majority of people who where “something” suddenly became “nothing” ( vice versa than after proletarian revoliution ). It would be natural if they prefer soviet times
Actually, there is no need to re-create the collapsed totalitarian apparatus, because the other, far more advanced, far more acceptable system ( authoritarian-”democracy” ) is currently being under establishment.
Elkman says:
Dear Baltic Wolf, you didn,t need to make so many copies of the message to make me understand your point of view
As concerns your comments:
Monuments to Nazis. Thus you confess that you do not consider Nazi as occupants? Apparently they were releasers in your point of view?
Finland.
Below you will find my replies to each of your “versions”.
1) Finns used to attack USSR in 1918-1920 but the Red Army kicked their asses. They continued provoking USSR along the frontier until the Winter War. Object to me and support with facts!
2) Although I hate XX congress of KPSS and those idiots who put shit on Stalin, the fact is that Finland really rejected all peaceful offers made by USSR. Afterwards Finns really granted their bases to germans. But it happend later and is not related to Winter War.
You better tell me why all three Baltic States agreed on those treaties and how Finns could have known that time what such treaty would result in.
3) Bullshit.
Your turn.
talking beaver says:
There is a saying – “When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks back into you”.
It is terrible that you do not even realize that your blinding hatred has turned you yourself into THAT which you seem to hate so much.
P says:
My grandfather was a teenager living with his grandmother in an occupied town.
His granny washed and ironed the germans’ clothes in exchange for some food scraps (like bones) and small amounts of bread.
They would also shoot at young kids ( like my granddad) trying to steal food from them, because there was nothing to eat.
Leon says:
well they were exterminating rodents like gypsies so your grandpa was lucky he escaped.
fromukrainewithlove says:
why the author say russians don’t wnat to see these pictures because it would be like our grandfathers didn’t fight for a better future??? Hitler wanted to kill all slavs, if it weren’t for our grandfathers even USA would be speaking either japanese either german this day.
Baltic Wolf says:
Elkman,
Sorry for overposting…
“Monuments to Nazis. Thus you confess that you do not consider Nazi as occupants? Apparently they were releasers in your point of view?”
Where did i mentioned nazis as liberators directly/indirectly or stated that we should annihilate soviet monuments and build some for nazis ? To Criticise communism regime means to bow for national-socialism? It seems that i cant understand your point of view
“1) Finns used to attack USSR in 1918-1920 but the Red Army kicked their asses. They continued provoking USSR along the frontier until the Winter War. Object to me and support with facts!”
Well, i admit that it was a great opportunity ( lets say unfair ) for Finland to capture territory inhabited by finnish related karelians when bolshevist Russia was slaughtered from inside. But Finish volunteer expeditions to east Karelia has ended in ~1922 and as you have allready mentioned their asses were seriously kicked. ( no territorial loss for Russia ) There is even 17 years period until winter war starts. Could you concreticise what provocations ( during that period ) gave pretext for USSR to attack Finland? ( facts prefferably )
“2) Although I hate XX congress of KPSS and those idiots who put shit on Stalin, the fact is that Finland really rejected all peaceful offers made by USSR. Afterwards Finns really granted their bases to germans. But it happend later and is not related to Winter War.
You better tell me why all three Baltic States agreed on those treaties and how Finns could have known that time what such treaty would result in.”
The perfection of pacific mutual help treaty “template” lies in its simplicity. Particular state gets a treaty coherent with good intentions ( “peacefull offer ), though its core is nothing more thant a light form of ultimatum
Lithuania 1939-10-10 I stage
USSR offers a treaty declaring retrieval of capital Vilnius. The optional clause – establish 4 RA bases – was introduced allready when signing. Accepting this treaty means start of military operation which later emerges to army introduction into territory. Rejecting means aggression or war ( Finland )
When minister of foreign affairs Juozas Urbšys stated that signing of such a treaty means an occupation Stalin replied: “vy za mnoga dumaitsie tovarisch Juozai”
You see, countervail against USSR for a small country like Lithuania with no military-industrial base and no usable terrain would probably lead to extinction
II stage: 1940-06-14 USSSR ultimatum as a result of noncompliance with 1939-10-10 treaty
Longlasting political provocations were led up by theatricalized attack on RA crews – flawless pretext to start occupation
Ultimatum Requirements:
1) Accept additional unlimited quantity of army units to ensure the safety of RA bases in Lithuania’s territory
2) Discharge and imprison ministry of domestic affairs
3) Form new government
Again, whether accept it or not, this already equals to fall of indepence
Thats how it works. Almost the same treaty “template” was applied in all Baltic states.
Finns could have simply realized whats lies beneath this treaty. The main distinction from the previous events is that they could oppose
Elkman says:
Baltic Wolf, sorry for the late reply.
As you have written so much about the treaty with Lithuania, I would dare to assume you are Lithuanian. In view of the monuments Lithuania is the most decent Baltic State as compared to Latvia and Estonia. As concerns your question, I quote: “Why should i keep monument which symbolizes occupation, oppresions, genocide to me?” If new monuments are being opened to Nazis in the Baltic States, isn’t it “blowing for national socialism”?
1) You can find below some facts:
a) 07 Oct 36 12:00 � Soviet frontiersman Spirin was badly wounded by the shot from finnish side near frontier marker No. 162 during regular perambulation and died soon. Negotiation of this incident continued up to Nov 1937. The finns tried to reject their fault, however eventually admitted it and even paid some compensation to Spirin�s family.
b) 27 Oct 36 10:00 � two shots from finnish side to the kolkhoz chairman Kolikhmanen.
c) 29 Oct 36 13:30 � on the finnish bank of river Sestra, close to frontier marker No. 73 two finns were aiming with a rifle at soviet soldiers Mashin and Martynov. Siviet soldiers noticed that and lied on the ground, after which finns left to the frontier marker No. 74.
d) 30 Oct 36 17:00 � four rifle shots by finnish frontiersmen into the house and household block located at the northern boundary of kolkhoz. With the note d.d. 10 Nov 36 finnish MFA rejected b, c & d.
e) 09 Dec 36 15:00 � close to frontier markers Nos. 439, 440, to shots were made from finnish side into Soviet guards. One of the bullets passed close to head of frontiersman Galjuk. Conversation of two men in finnish language could have been heard after the shots.
f) 12 Dec 36 � close to frontier mrker No. 66 finns shot into soviet guards. Bullet was found on soviet territory. Finns admitted e & f.
g) 17 Dec 37 12:30 � two finnish soldiers were shooting into soviet guards near frontier marker No. 690. Bullets passed over their heads.
h) 21 Jan 38 9:20 � two finnish frontiersmen trespassed soviet frontier near frontier marker No. 191. Soviet guards tried to arrest them, but finns maintained armed resistance. As the result, one of the finns was badly wounded.
There are also some facts of trespassing in the air and on water admitted by finns. Shall I describe them?
2) I�ve got your point regarding treaties with the Baltic States.
In fact, the clause regarding RA-bases was introduced from the very beginning, however Lithuanians hoped to avoid it by counter-proposing close military relationship instead of that. Attitude of Moscow at the next round of negotiations was: either you accept or Vilnius goes to Belorussia. I assume that Lithuanins might have not been insistent enough in that situation as they really wanted to get Vilnius and Vilenskaya Region. This was an artful bait by Soviets, and Lithuanian government eventually swallowed it. Anyway, Lithuanian government made their choice and put the signature. Regarding statement of Lithuanian MFA, I tried to find confirmation of such dialog, and the only reference I found was in the book of Bunich �Thunderstorm�. If this is your source, please, burn it. If not, please, give me the reference as it is interesting for me.
Your Stage 2� a consequence of your Stage 1. We can dispute for a long time whether this attack on RA-crew was faked or not, we will hardly find out. But my opinion remains that Lithuania was not occupied but legally joined to USSR.
D says:
Wow, I dont have time to read all your comments. Maybe I’ll come back to them later.
But admin, you fucking pussy, how dare you say that nazi rule is better in any way. Do you know why there are only old men, women, and children in these photos. Because anyone who can fight was killed already. And this must not be a jewish village, or else they would already be either mass murdered or sent on a train into a death camp. Your logic is so fucked up. People dont talk about it being better under nazi rule becuase it wasnt! 1 out of 4 poeple were murdered in Belarus. That means villages like these were burned to the ground and everyone murdered. Because at that time in belarus jews were the majority. If you said to me, “Let me kill your dad or brother and you can have some minor freedoms” I’d say fuck you, pick up a gun and die protecting my family and the rights we had enjoyed before nazi’s invaded. You might as well come out and say it… you are a nazi and wish that hitler would have defeated russia.
aom says:
Wow, what a funny discussion…
I am Polish.
I suspect these photos were made for propaganda purposes. Some of them might be acted (e.g. throwing stones at Lenin).
But your discussion is far too emotional. I mean all of you. The Polish guy, Rafal, as well.
It is a fact that in some parts of USSR the nazis were welcomed. Many people in Ukraine, Baltic republics, Caucasus hoped that Hitler liberate them from Stalin. The hope was false, as it turned out later.
But, on the other hand, is it wise to call these Ukrainians, Balts, Chechens and others – “nazis”? I would not say so.
Because then how would you call Soviet citizens cooperating with Hitler BEFORE the war? Do you know what I mean? Yes, before WWII USSR developed a broad cooperation with Hitler’s Germany. Hitler sold military equipment to USSR, whereas USSR sold raw materials to Germany. Moreover, USSR let German troops do maneuvers on military training grounds located in the Soviet territory. (The Treaty of Versailles put strong restrictions on military development of Germany and this cooperation was a workaround).
Not to speak of the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. In 1939, there was a common Soviet-German military parade in Brest. Brest was a Polish town captured by Germans and then given to Soviets according the pact.
aom says:
Movie of that parade. Ironically, the Soviet general who shook hands with the German one, later on became famous for his fight against Germans.
That’s politics.
John Lennon Groucho Marx says:
It was a WORLD war. We’ll never sort it all out. Each soldier had an idea in their own mind as to what they were fighting for. If they kept it simple, they’d have the strength to go on and perhaps survive. If they started thinking about every paradox, irony, falsehood, lie, motivation, etc., they’d become as mad as the idea of war.
toto says:
Hey, i’m from Hungary and i’ve heard many stories about WW2. The Germans behaved really humanly. At least in here. And to Hungarians. Of course they captured the jews and put them on railway cars, but who cares? There ‘s never been a decade in the modern history in which they would not have confronted with one nation or other.
Bill Ramos says:
I just want to add that the Russian soldier and the Russian people are remarkably brave and very tough minded people. In spite of the hardships they endured by the Naziz they managed to accomplish incredible almost super human feats moving whole factories many hundreds of miles away and making excellent weapons to finally kick Hitlers ass all the way back to Berlin. Just look at you simple Mosin Nagant rifle, probobly the best rifle in WW2 with the exception of the M1 Garand, accurate, simple, rugged, can take as much punishemnt as you can give it and ask for more, the T-33 tanks were the same, just like the Russian people. They deserve a lot of credit for their sacrifices during WW2. I happen to admire them very much and I am an American and I love my country very much. This has nothing to do with politics just facts, oh, and by the way they have extremly good looking women to boot!
rezom says:
Ukraine welcomed them as liberators,after the holodomor and all the nasty things stalin and lenin caused to them,it would have benn expected,sure it’s propaganda,but i’m also sure that their relationship were not always tense
Bill says:
Nazi propaganda! They were nice to the jews at first as well before they began exterminating them!
Sfrandzi says:
The text is silly. And photos at all propagation. It is one of the parties of a reality. Which is always complex and is various. It is clear, that German soldiers – people, and Russian peasants – people. And between people human attitudes are naturally fastened. But if to these soldiers will order to burn village – they will burn. If will order to shoot one thousand or two thousand person – will shoot. That’s all. It were soldiers of Great Germany, and Russian bread, Russian hands and Russian chernozems was necessary to Great Germany, and it is more than anything. Germans at all have not dismissed collective farms as Russian peasants because this system was very convenient for getting bread hoped
Hummmm says:
russian faggots
Redleader says:
Speaking as a Canadian, can’t we all just get along? Yes there were many atrocities on both sides, it was war. It’s over with now. Let’s all go out for a beer and celebrate a period of relative peace.
Al..ex..ei says:
Speaking as new Canadian with a East European and Russian background, I would LOVE to have people get alone but they are way to different, and difference amnog groups, as well as identification with a particular group are the main components of a conflict…so lets hope for the best!!! cheers!!!
Authorized! says:
It’s all true, all of my grandparents told me that Nazis killed only partisans and communists, civilians enjoyed many freedoms that they didn’t have under soviets
asdf says:
Hey, admin.
FUCK YOU.
Dmitri says:
Igr, podozhdi.
Everyone (and I mostly mean parties that benefit from it), can create a picture for you just for that purpose. You need to learn to become more suspicious towards your own government. Always ask yourself a question – “who benefits from that?”.
Let’s say that there’s need for a public outrage so that we can transport troops in the cover of that one event. It wouldn’t be hard at all for me to organize an event where russian speaking people wear highly valuable collectible items (namely nazi uniforms from the ww2) and wave their arms just like they have learned from historical films. The people on the film can even stay completely oblivious to the fact that they are being used in political propaganda and the film is not for educational purposes.
American people from US of A have almost learned it not to trust their government blindly but they are not quite there yet. We can beat them at this game even if we start late. Like now.
Dmitri says:
That was meant as a reply to
Comment by igor
2008-03-13 01:23:17
none says:
Someone loves the Nazis! and it’s the poster of this article
Mike says:
there have been many ridiculous comments here
first the nazis killed millions of people- they are all but extinct now
The Soviet killed many people especially there own, they are a bit more stubborn and have been slower to find their path to sanity.
And yes Russians did fire at their own troops if they tried to retreat, why do u think stalin said “it takes more courage to retreat towards russia, than it does to charge the enemy”
but yeah u people in russia if u went outside your borders that every other countries news media will conflict with yours
means that the russian media and history books are probably very inaccurate
Michael Kuznetsov says:
Hi Folks,
The German invaders were not such “sweet” liberators as a few Nazi propaganda photos are meant to show.
They did mercilessly murder 13,000,000 (thirteen million) Russian CIVILIAN people.
I repeat — CIVILIAN people, not soldiers!
To kill such a huge amount of people BY HAND (not by the mass destruction weapon – MDW) was such a formidable task that neither the SS, nor the special detachments Einsatzgruppen) alone could have ever fulfilled it.
It was only with the “assistance” of the regular German Army – Die Wehrmacht, on a daily basis, that the damned murderous German occupants managed to have killed thirteen million Russian civilians: 13,000,000 innocent WOMEN, CHILDREN and OLD PEOPLE.
See
Michael Kuznetsov
[...] con la traducción del artículo (si es que cabe la polémica), las fotografías publicadas en English Russia me parecen de un valor histórico grandísimo. Por esto no he dudado en [...]
Gurtek singh says:
heck all the propagandas why fight, why to war , their is nothing in war then in peace i like the picture of kid eating bread above………….
DRON says:
Propaganda
AquaOrange says:
depending on how lucky the village people are, they can meet a humane troop of the “enemy” side or otherwise. also, is the aspect biased? for example, suppose i hate the racism of nazi, but i hate comunist greater than i hate nazi, so in this particular subject, it’s of my interest to promote nazi rather than commie(althought inhumanity of both system is simply wrong)?
Andy says:
Many of you guys just refuse to accept, that ‘russian’ doesn’t mean ‘communist’.
I believe that most of Russians at least despise Stalin and his policy.
27 millions died MOSTLY because of the idiotic orders of goverment and generals (another fact, being still denied).
Soldiers fighted for their lives and for their bithplace – not for Stalin. It’s incredibly stupid to accuse young boys, who just tried to stay alive on a massacre, of the Soviet regime crimes. I’m assured, not all of them even were communists.
However, what if all russians were ‘red’? If you actually think that it could justify in any way what nazis did, you may look into the mirror an say ‘Heil Hitler’ to youself.
BTW, I trust these photos. Sure, not of the Germans were insanely cruel or something. They didn’t find it necessary to kill russian kids or old men without a reason. They did it only sometimes: over 600 villages in West Russia were burned with all their inhabitants alive (for suspicion of hiding the soldiers). They were perfectly humanly, sure.
BTW, significant part of the Holocaust took place in Russia. Yep, a lot of Jews were actually communists. It was sometimes too far and expensive to send’em to camps in Germany – nazis would just shoot’em in the forest. Thousands of Russian Jews in a few days. ‘Who cares’ – one Hungarian here said. Well, well. I do.
Sure, Stalin was no better than Hitler in any way. But Russian and Jewish families killed for no reason were weigh better than a bunch of ‘respectful’ SS murderers.
Only an idiot can state, that England and States could fight nazis without a help from Russians. Don’t you think this brotherhood in arms should be remembered better than cold war slogans?
Democratic says:
These photos are not at all surprising. German soldiers behaved very well almost all over the Europe comparing Red Army soldiers. Germans didn’t gangraped millions of females, they didn’t terrorize civilians just for fun, no looting (there was nothing to loot).
Only exception were small minority of SS-soldiers (majority of them behaved very well toward civilians). But Einsatzgruppen (terror-organisation, you can compare them to NKVD) made the crimes. And when we think about jews we must remember that russians terrorised jews as eager as german police units.
Now you can ask youself was ordinary German soldier worse than american soldier in Vietnam or Soviet soldier in Afganistan. I pretty sure German behaved as well or better.
I know russian patriots and communists might feel pain in ass, but you also must undestand that myths of German “terror” in western part of USSR and truth is little bit different story. It’s time to break down the myths of WW2 and start to tell true stories.
Democratic says:
You can listen the discussion between Hitle and Finnish Marschall Mannerheim in 4th of June, 1942. Hitler was telling what a great shock is it to him to know how enourmous forces Soviet Union had near Greater-German border in june 1941.
Link is here. It’s wellknown in Finland (found in early 1980′s) and only tape where Hitler has normal politicial etc talk (not propaganda speech).
http://www.yle.fi/player/player.jsp?actionpage=3&id=4727&locale=
Historical very important. And in many ways destroys some myths of Barbarossa.
noname says:
yes. Heil Hitler. I guess the nazis didn’t really burn people in ovens, it was all made up by the evil Russians. Come on you guys. And by he way, I DO believe the pictures. I do accept the fact that sme German soldiers were normal people, and not “dangerous animals..” However, I don’t thnk that the idea of Nazism can be justified in any way, and nothing in the world will convnce me that all the Nazis wanted was to give out chocolates to the poor kids of Eastern Europe. And I don’t really consider myself a Russian patriot, however it really disconcerts me that some people are ignorant enough to blame Russians for all the evil in the world, and for actually fighting against nazism. Russians sufered from Hitler no less than they did from Stalin.
noname says:
” Germans didn’t gangraped millions of females, they didn’t terrorize civilians just for fun, no looting”
Well, I wouldn’t be so sure.In fact there are hundreds of examples that prove that this is not true. Yes, this was a war, and one side was probably no less violent than the other, meaning that the red army did commit atrocities also, however saying that the Nazis were all kind hearted peacemakers is a little bit too much, my friends. Whatever, this is all in the past anyway, lets not hate each other please.
lude nunes says:
How much of this might be called Nazi propaganda? If it was so good and peaceful, how some 25 million Soviets died on this war?
chupachupser says:
“As for the ridiculous 100 million Slavs, we will mold the best of them to shape that suits us, and we will isolate the rest of them in their own pig styles; and anyone who talks about cherishing the local inhabitant and civilising him goes straight off into a concentration camp”
- Adolf Hitler
guas says:
good nazis, mmmm, do you notice almost all people was children and old people? where is the young men,middle age men?
Mehis I says:
Dear people!
You have never lived under soviet regime, but I have.
I note that before WW2 there was very tight collaboration between Soviet and Reich in militar and economy areas.Military officers field trainig, fight pilote trainigg and weapon design and training were some few examples. After destroying of Poland from east and west have they a military parade together in Brest. Let stop with this.
I can tell much more about, but if nobody will not understrand at there is no difference between communist regime and nazi regimes plan for future, it will be abandoned time. Thank for attention.
Joan says:
I read something about the strange occasion that the German troops, which Hitler descended upon Russia to enslave and destroy the Russian nation in order to create a German India, were welcomed by local population as liberators from the Bolshevist yoke: If that is true then Stalin is a real lucky man! He seems to could have done every folly and mistake and survived it! He had allied himself with his other self Hitler, who was his sworn enemy, against his natural allies France and Britain; he killed almost every capable person in his great purges and ignored all warnings about the upcoming German invasion… if the Germans would have treated the Russians like they did in the First World War they might have been able to raise a second white army and to defeat Stalin! But the world or at least Europe was lucky too: As Hitler inflicted that much damage on Stalin his other self was unable to pull the fast one again in 1944/45 as he did in 1939/40 and enslave all Europe under the Bolshevist yoke! Though it would have been better to save Germany from destruction, like France was saved in 1814/15, as a great power by arranging a nice little military coup against Hitler with the more saner levels of German military and administrative leadership in 1943/44; people like Rommel or Mannstein were quite reasonable… by doing so the world would have not only been freed from Hitler but from his other self Stalin too: As the despot was guilty on every charge brought against the helpers of Hitler in Nuernberg. Stalin of course is on top of my personal list of people who should not have survived the Second World War! Together with Guenther GraSS and Bertolt Brecht [my old enemies from the German lessons], the arch-traitor Sartre [a country that has such citizens does not need enemies!] and of course Gandhi; so much for that and in the next war France will hopefully have learned her lesson: First shot all communists and then go to war! This spares a nation the military defeat as well as the illegal partisan war after a defeat…
Chia says:
Fine, but.. Soviet civil losses were about 13,000,000 people, while the German civil losses (caused mainly by the Anglo-American massive bombing raids) were about 1,223,000 people.
bolder says:
This is all German propaganda. It was really deceptive propaganda and the truth was far different. German soldiers raped, humiliated, and murdered Russian civilians on an epidemic scale. It was apart of their doctrine in dealing with the Russian civilian population. The average German soldier (not just the Waffen SS) committed these crimes on a large scale. The Russians lived in constant fear of German brutality. Many survivors testified to this after the war and so mauch evidence proves this to be true. I have been very interested in WW2 and the Holocaust and have learned from many sources of the cruelty of the Germans in WW2.
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[...] English Russia Russia under Nazis during WW2 [...]
otto says:
I like the picture with the words Arbeitsamt. This ist the place where Russian People could apply for work. So work was strictly voluntary and those that applied got paid by the Germans. The pictures are not Propaganda. Germany was not at war with the Russian People as such, they where at war with those that instigated the War, those who worked behind the scenes in Russia, England, France and the USA. The Germans considered the Russians as noble people. Now in todays time we can see again, how the same bunch of people pulling the stringes behind the scene to establish a new World Order.
That Russia suffered the greatest nummber of death ist mainly doo to the way the Red Army used their Commrads as cannon fodder. The Russian Officers, mainly Jewish people, had no regards for life. These Officers send the Russian soldiers ill prepared to their death. My father told me, that they came marching in formation towards the Germans lines in Koenigsberg, Kaliningrad. This is where my father got taking prisoner. The Germans always wondered, how the Russian officers could burn up their people. It was not strategie the won the war for the Russians, it was only doo to the fact,that Russia seemingly had an unlimited amount of human resources. If the Brits would not have ben able to destroy the German population in the Cities at hom in Germany, the Russians would not have been victorious.
So far as I can determine, from my research, the Germans come out of it all with the cleanest shirt. They followed the Geneva convention. I know this because the Germans inflickted heavy punishment on those Germans that commited war crimes. While the Germans bombed in Brittan the factories, the Britts concentrated meinly on the people, because their was no anti aircraft fire.
Hitler would have never attackt Russia, if it where not for the fact, that Russia was planing to attack Germany. This is the reason, why the germans had at the beginning of the war such great success. All the railroads in Russia were stuft full of war machinery, going towards the German frontier when the Germans invaded Russia. The Russian troops could were not quite ready to attack and could not go back either. The material arrived, but the troops did not. This cought the Red Army by surprise. The Germans were able to destroy and captured thousands of tonnes of war material. Everything that I write here has been resarched carfully and anyone that has any daubt con find this on the internet.
Just for thr record, does anyone know why the cold war started in 1948 between the Sovjets and the western allies? This was because the Russian people had gotten rid of the Jewish people that pulled the strings behind the scene of the russian Government. The Jews in the western camp did not like this and this is the reason for the cold war.
Do you know, why the cold war ended in 1998? It is because Russia oppened the door again to the strippen pullers. Now Russia has the same cancer again, than before the war. The way it looks, the octopus has encircled the whole world, just as Hitler predicted. The only places where the octopus has no tentacles is, in Cuba, Venesuela, Iran, North Korea and a few other countries which are not cooperating with the western ountries.
I can not tell how deeply these wealthy burgouise got their roots in Russia, but Russia is now infected with the same cancer causing virus than the western world.
Just think of the hoaxes of climate change, sars, swine flu and bird flu. Think of the fact, why some people can only publish their findings in alternative media. All thes are symtomes of who is running this world. The media is not telling the people the truth.
GW says:
Dear friend,
While you have reached the wrong conclusions. I will not even bother to explain to you how . Just think of the fact that the NAZIS could not follow Geneva conventions since they did not exist. Also exterminating all Jews, Gypsies, Slav,Commies, and etc. undesirable elements is allowed on the convention , pretty much explicitly.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions In case you don’t know what wikipedia is. Also I really hope you are either 9 or just being sarcastic for the sake of humanity cause Hitler might be right if you aren’t.
PKS says:
> it was not so bad under the short German rule
Sure. 19 million civilians in Russia died because of extreme joy and happiness. 11 million of them even executed themselves!
Posting Nazi and neo-Nazi propaganda. Bad, bad ER!
Felix Unger says:
A long time since the last comment. I’m shocked by the sugestion or premise that the Germans were somhow friends of the people of the USSR. Whilst Herr Hitler signed a pact promising not to invade the USSR and did indeed divide the spoils of his Polish invasion with them in 1939 the rest is fantasy. When unable to break Britain and its comonwealth allies Hitler started a war with his former allie to gain the mineral and oil wealth denied him by the effective blockade of shipping to Germany. The invaders were expected to kill anyone they deemed likely to cause problems. “Bolshevics” were top of the list together with anyone suspcted of being a communist leader, local official, jew, priest, opponent of Natonal Socialism, old enough to fight and s on. Because of the length of the supply line (as with Napoleon) the troops were expected to live off the land. Even th most ardent Communist must surely admit that the purges of the army and forced collectivisaton of farming under the regime in power ad left a weak defence and a population on the whole near to starvation. Millions of your own citizens had died as a result of imprisonment, deiberate murder and starvation. I know Comrade Putin has whitewashed much of this in Russian (neo-Soviet) history, but those are the facts. Thousands died because they were “intellectuals” like teachers, writers, engineers, designers playwrights, musicians, dancers, or homosexuals, gipsies. This was in forced labour camps BEFORE 1939. Your claims for firsts look ridiculous hen you consider that arguably best aircraft desgner in the world and most of his team were imprisoned in Siberia for a long time.
The SS were efficient killers and they had the support of the army at large by fear if not acquescence. The siege of Leningrad was a brutal affair on boh sides. At stake was the young USSR, its generals purged (killed) and its military leadership youn and inexperianced. The Germans had been preparing for war since about 1933. So far as Germany was concerned the “Slavic” people were as sub-human as they considered gypsies etc. to be and “Russians” were Slavic in their eyes. What little food there was in USSR was either taken germans or destroyed by the USSR army in its retreat. Neither ide gave a damn for the civilian population whose homes were burnt and destroyed as german troops swooped towards Moscow.
The idea that a few photographs can rewrite history is preposterous. For a start what evidence do you have to authenticate the pictures? They’re not verifiable as to date, where they were taken, by whom and more important still who hey are! As proof of anything they are junk. As german troops died in the siege of St Petersburgh messages were being brodcast on German radio sending messages to loved ones at home. Families in Germany were sending Christmas presents, clothing and food parcels to soldiers dead or dying and the delivery of which was impossible anyway. All these are verifiable fact. The German war machine was generally excellent at propaganda. The Red Cross visited an extermination camp and met groups of happy, well nourished inhabitants happily working for the war effort, men, women and chldren. All of course were said to be jewish and convinced the visitors it wasn’t an extermination camp. Within the week all were dead. The Nazis kept records, meticulous records, nd mny survived as he Allies, which now inclded the USSR razed germany. Many survivors left details of what had happened in the “Russian” offensive. I knew one survivor on the german side. A young man in his teens at the start of the war. Tall (even in his 70s) blond, aryan. He becm membr of the waffen SS and had the tatoo to prove it. He had been involved in the german invasion and though he said what he had seen he avoided he had participated. Most of the family knew he’d been captured and spent time as a POW in Germany and Britain. After he commited suicide (he had terinalcancer) the family read the account he’d written. It wasn’t pleasant reading. I know accepting “photographic evidence” sounds convincing, but by the same yardstik do you believe in Darth Vader, Sherlock Holmes, Captain Kirk and so on? It would be simple even now to produce photographs uch as these. A suitable location, period clothing or reproducton thereof, models to fit the part and throw in some long pre-war prints to complete the mix. I find it novel that in USSR days with chrch represion high regime equally repressive of religion should in a short time ot only tolerate it but seemingly actively encourage participation. Who is throwing rocks? We see their backs only.Two at least appear to be wearing jackboots! Do we know who stands behind the camera? Is the throwing voluntary?
To me most of the pictures back up the general view of the Nazi hierarchy. Barefoot poorly dressed savage living a sub human existence in an uncivilized country. The group of children eating from one large pot and looking almost, if not,naked would be ideal for the propaganda machine.
I you don’t agree at least look again in an open way at thehistory of the era. Current Russian or German citizens shold ber no grudge against each other. Denying past history may lead to the same mistakes being made again. By searching for the truth we should be able to avoid them
(Bush and Blair aside!)
Ron - Plywood Boat Plans says:
very interesting testimonial..as a Jew, I had family that was murdered under Nazi regime. So it’s interesting to learn about others who did not suffer the same fate.
Reva Houston says:
englishrussia.com’s done it once more! Great writing.
Flora Madison says:
Hah I am literally the first reply to your incredible article!?
Tim says:
Can you imagine the mentality of torturing people? Can you believe the mindset of a human??
Yet, the Bible tells us of a future when a leader called the Anti Christ will kill billions!
With the oil spill in the Gulf, could that be one of the Revelation’s? Could be, why God is not going to be that obvious, but yet its almost obvious….
The NWO is playing out, and this is written long ago….. Cap N Trade is being passed all over the world, as leaders bow to the NWO..
Only a handful of countries like Russia have sustained from entering into agreements….
The problem of course will arise that all countries will goes against the ones that refuse to enlist into the NWO…cause its gonna be forced onto the entire world….. no one will be immune from the Beast that is coming out of the Sea….
You can bet, we are seeing everyone unfold, at a rapid rate….
Soon, all of us will have to make a choice…..
You wont be able to buy or sell….meaning you will starve….. or die by the sword….or become captive……
The story you read above is a glimpse of our futures ahead…..
GW says:
This is the most. Entertaining description I have ever read. Clearly you need more education or to talk to some “russian” people under the occupation. Also do you know what a bander is? As for private property and what not? Germany used a even worse system of occupation and resource exploitation in Russia proper, that can ever be dreamed up by the CP. Also for all the Neo-Nazis out there. Its nice that people still believe in things but its still kind of wrong.
GW says:
Oh yes also, I dont see any partisans swinging from trees. My grandma who happened to live there at the time, always seem to talk about those darn partisans. Swinging and swinging, their eyes eaten by crows with children playing in the background. oh the joys of childhood. What were the partisans fighting for? Stalin? PS These photos might be a bit selective and telling half the truth.
Lolboy says:
Some of you are really dumb,or just say tools,forgive this start-I had to say.
This pictures are not propagand or photoshoped,do you really think all german soldiers were evil machines of pain and destruction?Some of them surely,but not the majority.
And in those tough times they made friends with the villagers,big deal,but they died fighting Russian soldiers,ironic isn´t it?
Things are never just black or white,remember that.
gOOsebeRRy says:
how bout israeli (zionis) killed afgans ppl? anyone do care bout that? frankly speak i like nazi…. they travel to chase all jews and eliminate the allied troops…. britain and american travel to other country to conquer and making money on their captured country…. japan army chase british army in malaya to sent the british back to their home…. its same when british army comes to malaya they killed ppl… so whats the point? allied decide to use atomic bomb to hiroshima and nagasaki causing fatal damage to the civilians…. is that fair? how bout if german and japan decide to bomb america and britain? allied dont have guts in war…. they only think how to bomb the opponent’s home…..
Your Bucharest Friend says:
I`m amazed that these pics could raise so much hysteria and argues.
My ideea is very simple: Look at these pictures, people, these pictures talk by themselves. All nations involved in WW II has comited a lot of mistakes, bombarding (Dresden), destruction (Monte Cassino) and atrocities (russians did have gulag camps also). But, somehow, some people (I dont know wich nation was best of it)behave very normal and peaceful, careful with local civilians. These pictures above (and they are more) show that germans could do that.
And, I have to tell you, my old-countrymen (I am romanian) tells me that germans were very different comnparing with other nation`s that time, and their officers didnt allow any nazi soldier to do stupid things by himself. But maybe not all germans were like that, although the communist propaganda here in my country failed to lie about the nazi times. They coudnt find anything exagerate, even after romanians turns the gun on them.
An finally I declare to you all: look at these pictures and please find soviet pictures as well in their move to the west: Romania, Hungary, Poland, Czech, Germany, etc. To be even, isnt this be wright?
We need more people with an attitude like yours. I wasn’t going to comment until i read your post. If i could email a cold beer, i`d send a carton
giantblob says:
Close examination of the photos reveal that most of the smiling Russians and German soldiers are smiling with their eyes. I.E., they are actually smiling because they are happy and not because someone told them to.
Yes the German army did A LOT of horrible things, but shurly this shows that there were some decent guys too!
karl says:
It is so interesting of the Amerikanisch replyes.For they know so little, and but say so much! For what do they know? And yes, my fater was SS of Panzer, so what.
Karl
ast says:
war is awful thihg. as my grandmother told me how she was feeling when a soldier gave her a bread and next moment just shot her sister with a cat…………… etc….
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