Facebook Chat with Wolf Hesse ~ Saturday, March 28, 2015
Conversation started Friday
on a personal note.. i'm in the process to set up a company, and i want to set up a sort of ethics board. it's non-formal, just to be ready to discuss questions on a personal level with me if neccessary. i'd would love to see you as a member of that team supporting me should difficult questions arise. the other team member by now is Richard Saunders who might be known.. you would be observing partners, getting reports to evaluate .. not regularly, forces are weak. do you think that this could make sense. please hold conversation private for now. a hospitality package will be prepared. tx. my name is roger. i'm from vienna, austria, coo of a tv channel right now.
3/27, 12:25am
Friday
I would only do that if it were an educational non-profit and if the discussions were published on the open Internet.
3/27, 5:00pm
Today
i see, thank you for the response..
the project has a profit-driven background for reasons, and i understand your position. nevertheless, to make it happen, this is an experiment.. and discussions / publications will be. i have an inflow of materials from the commons/p2p community that should play a role, honestly: too much for me to digest right now..
i'll stay here, and you will or will not see the dialogues, and you will or will not participate then - any style will be helpful ..
If this were an Open Source Enterprise, with transactions conducted in the open, and in the public interest, non-profit, then I would consider it. But not if it's a for-profit private or semi-private enterprise with an individual or small oligarch at the head of the enterprise.
Can you bring Richard Saunders into this chat and make it a 3-way, please. I'd like to hear his perspective and level of interst.
i fully understand you. problem is, who will start it, where do forces come from, from a pool without much ethical understanding and interest. everyone is talking about 'we need a new economic model'.. my view is, it will start with what is available..
If I am apprehending your position, you have a private for-profit enterprise in mind, where the managers are not particularly schooled in ethical deep reasoning, and you want an Ethics Board to provide you guidance in ethical business practices. Is that an accurate perception on my part?
primary beneficiaries should be artists, their market is breaking down right now, otherwise they are very important (their role in society).. i try to setup a supporting structure, for the time being, someone has to finance that .. from existing interests. a regulatory structure often shows a tendency to develop into something that you call 'oligarchical'.. that's the reason, i asked people like you .. to have a counterweight right from the start.. even before something ugly can evolve
second thought, and major insecurity.. i have an incomplete model, 2 of 3 parts are possible to start. my options are: wait, until model is complete, or go.
i am not the least sure, that everything can play out..
we will see when development is underway
too much theoretical material is here, nothing get's tested. i do not believe in institutions. so..
Please disclose to me the name of ll the other candidates you are soliciting in a parallel manner for this Ethics Board, besides, Richard Saunders.
And please add Richard Saunders to this chat so that we can reason together, all on the same page.
You say your real name is Roger, and you are Chief Operating Officer of a TV channel in Vienna? Is that accurate? What is the name of the TV channel?
i would not like to use words like 'charity' in fact, i don't have names for everything .. i expect that to be discovered underways.. others i ve asked, immediate positive reaction i have from mike marinos, layne hartsell, and tomrom, who is press-speaker of austrian WWF.. it's informal, not meant to be published or what. i just want to have sort of team/group/individuals that secure that part, and i can discuss things with
basic system is a internet tv running in france, germany and austria right now.. http://sfe.tv ..
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www.sfe.tv
A unique Platform broadcasting a 24/7 Art program
this company is established, a project is underway to build playouts for hotels, sort of 'private tv' - the streaming infrastructure get's expanded, that is my job to do until summer.
i can use any resources on the side for whatever purposes i see fit, so this is just infrastructure and operations for minimal cost secured.
second part.. a group of austrian musicians, well connected in the austrian art scene / establishment, .. who would be ready to provide with first class content.
background 'new kind of doing business'.. i work with those, who do already understand, that the recording business is seriously flawed.. the need a replacement model.. and: marketing _is_ needed
Is the Internet TV channel you have in mind one that operates in manner similar to PBS in the US,or something like the Discovery Channel, History Channel, or National Geographic Channel or the Food Channel? Or is it more like a commercial cable channel?
next factor: the nature of retail-business is rapidly transforming, hospitality, gastronomy, retail are melting together.
there is some hope, that inflow will come from there.. but obviously this will be very difficult.
from what i know from operations, having been involved in a couple of projects without profit orientation (most well known: one-laptop-per-child.. via with a friend) i'd whish that would work out better, but it does not.
Do I apprehend that you are unfavorably disposed to the public service model, such as OLPC, PBS, NPR, etc?
world is transforming anyways. i was involved in two startups last two years, money was cheap, business models where BS did not work out. smalll investors get betrayed systematically
Please add Richard Saunders to this chat, so that I may learn his perception.
so my first direction, from all i have, looks most meaningful when using a 'city' size to make that happen, in tourism/art clamp. there are uncountable institutions in that field, but none of those have any other interest than their own bureaucracy. i work with artists, to make them entrepreneuers somewhat, to survive this, and next year.
I would like to have a 3-way chat, so that we may come to a consensus on what is being proposed, and so that we have a clear understanding of the governing philosophical model of the enterprise.
i agree. i do not have that char right now.. i pushed forward very wildly to secure my commitment i have to come down a bit right now, but i have seen some sky
Roger, is there some reason you are not responding to my request regarding bringing Richard Saunders into a 3-way conversation?
ah? . i have not the least problem with that..
he's on facebook.. do you know him?
do you need sort of 'formal intro'? .. i can do that.. i thought, you were fb-connected friends,..
Please tell me why you mentioned his name to me at the top of this conversation.
Roger, do you know how to tell if one of your FB friends is also one of mine?
i asked a couple of contacts from fb.. he is one who responded. my intention was to get sort of 'how good can such an idea be'.. whether there will be a team, or individual consultation: i do not stress on a specific form
one can lookup friends of friends.. i did not do that.. was not a factor. my initial force was: i would trust feedback from you. that is the major point. you can think things through, and your 'ethics' is one i appreciate.
Please add Richard Saunders to this chat, so that we may all put our heads together to have a common understanding of the concept of enterprise you have in mind.
i'm behind with describing the concept.. working on having it ready for wednesday. that will happen then (i cannot defend my chaotic thoughts as they are right now, and discussions would not be helpful) maybe i will open a fb group, or not,, i do not know yet.
i have to work with artist and other contacts right now.. plan is.. all the work will roll out summer, maybe kickoff in autumn with a couple of first gigs. so.. there is time for all the orga-starting.
you'll receive your invitation when it's ready to go and i have even time to listen in, which is difficult - too many questions to answer at other ends.. tx for feedback anywats
re involvement: you were the only one who asked names about others, so you are also the only one that got them. the others did not ask, yet.
My feedback is that it is essential, from a trust-building perspective, to call a meeting of all those whom you have contacted so far (e.g. Richard Saunders, Mike Marinos, Layne Hartsell, and Tomrom), so that we may learn each other's perspective and level of interest, and all be on the same page regarding our common understanding of the enterprise you have in mind and the role you expect the members of the Ethics Board to play.
yes, i agree. i expect that to happen somewhere at april/8 or later. i am preparing that
if i find time, it will be earlier..
hm.. maybe i should do that quicker..
getting back to you.. tx for now
Roger, I expect that to happen right now, right here. Please advise me if you do not intend to set up a multi-way chat here on FB or on an alternate medium within a matter of hours or days.
ok. just a minute. ..
see the post..
Where have you posted?
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“The first draft of anything is shit.” - hemingway
-- Addendum --
re sfe.tv .. a clarification, there will be not much connection with that company, it is a separate instance. only the technical base will be opensourced, and for starting .. infrastructure can be provided now..
barry, do you have access to http://piratepad.net/wienerblut ? let's transfer that writing there, so that it can start accumulating
piratepad.net
We're having trouble talking to the EtherPad synchronization server. You may be connecting through an incompatible firewall or proxy server.
What is that site? I loaded the link you provided earlier in the FB post, and it was mostly in German. To my English-speaking eye, it was gibberish.
it's an editor.. with a chat. systems like that are valuable for cooperative brainstorming and scribbling
second benefit is, that no one gets' notified all the time. one goes in, or stays out - it stays public and open, has full history support
as i said, it should be non-formal.. and i have to take care for cognigive load of all participants
piratepad is such a system..
i do other works on other panels .. so, for collaborative editing, it's way better than facebook-posts and streams of comments
I scrolled the timeline there back to version 105, and it's mostly incomprehensible to me.
i pushed some older fragments there, all work in progress, have deleted them allready b/c.. yes, not fit for the purpose
nevertheless, the scheme-description will be built there.
Is Version 105 supposed to me meaningful to me?
no, probably not.. (version management is for digging back, mostly..) primary version is last..
for the process: the pad has two parts: a chat part to the right, and the document to the left
I looked at that and it's a bewildering mess of incoherent sentence fragments, flush with non-words in any vocabulary familiar to me.
discussions about document should we on the right..
yes, i was quickly putting them in, saw that it made no sense, and deleted them already
basically.. open (without version).. and wait what is flowing in.
You'd have to hire an editor to untangle that mess of spaghetti and organize it into a coherent narrative that anyone could read without a Captain Midnight Decoder Ring.
discussion w/o disturbing others synchronously are on the right side. endless scrollback is supported and everything will be preserved
It's incoherent Stream of Consciousness.
look at the current version.. there is almost no text left to untangle ;;) sorry for chaotic start
First of all, you can't identify the person who contributed a passage.
just reload. (timeline and versioning opens a new browser tab / window on most systems i know.. not of interest).. the german version was result of cooperative brainstorming, i understand that it does not make much sense to news..
i do not care, who was the contributor
Is Version 105 even germane? You posted that link on the FB Timeline post an hour ago.
second plz..
click on it again, the current version has been cleared
it's a live-document
piratepad.net
We're having trouble talking to the EtherPad synchronization server. You may be connecting through an incompatible firewall or proxy server.
there is no version spec
It's not a chat, then. It's supposed to be a group of editors constructing a document?
yes. a chat system is on the right side, the doc is on the left.
Every keystroke is an incremental version.
a working 'protocol' i learned was, to discuss in the chat, and let discussion results flow into the living doc..
in the doc, yes..
the system was a commercial project, 'etherpad'.. google bought the company, and could n t monteize on that. they put it into opensource.. a couple of operators run such systems
piratepad is operated by german party 'the pirates' .. or a bunch of people there. i honestly do not know, but it has been rather stable since 6 years..
does not cost much, seemingly.
it's free.
commons
everything, every keystroke goes intor public domain right away.
-r
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