NCGenWeb's State of Fear
Good old NCGenWeb has been a hub of CC firings and CC intimidation for years. Recently, the new SC-Diane, who coincidently is the GC Chairperson and who is responsible for the first lawsuit against USGenWeb for abusing her power in refusing to hear a legitimate CC’s grievance, told the North Carolina CCs that if they sent emails to outsiders and she found out about it, they could be kicked out of NCgw. Now, this SC wants to re-incorporate NCgw. Below, a former SC-Elizabeth is outraged. Elizabeth wasn't so outraged a few years ago. She was the SC when the hard-ass stuff began. When this webmaster joined NCgw, Elizabeth said a new CC had to observe how things worked for a year. Then he could express an opinion. Gosh, thanks but no thanks to censorship. Now censorship has come full circle. How do you like it?
Reportedly, a few years ago, a NCgw CC was kicked out after paying for the NCgw domain name and and offering to give it to the project. Now, they secretly completed incorporation.
Here's a snip of snips of an post from Elizabeth to Diane-the SC.
Elizabeth said: It appears I haven't been unsubscribed from the state lists yet, so I would like to take this opportunity to respond to Diane's message.
Diane said: To get new county site requirements and bylaws approved so we can move forward with re-incorporating the project and to start towards guiding us all into having a huge project and one that we can all be extremely proud of We are working on these as we speak, we currently have a discussion open on the county requirements.
Elizabeth said: When a couple of us objected to one of those new "requirements", Diane told us to end the discussion. From my post last Sunday:
Diane said: Please refrain from getting into a debate over this.
Elizabeth said: Diane, you asked for opinions on your new rules and regulations. Some of us have a problem with the one about transcription activity being a requirement. We are discussing it. That's exactly what the DISCUSS list is for.
Diane said: We do have a board which consists of myself, Ron Dailey, Katherine Benbow, Taneya Koonce and Derick Hartshorn. Derick will be sending out an email explaining the board to you, as well as asking for a vote from each of you to confirm it.
Elizabeth said: Yet the "board" has acted to remove someone who has been a CC for 13 years, without having themselves been elected or given the authority by the membership to take such an action. (Webmaster's note: Sounds like NMgw. I get NMgw and NCgw mixed up. They have a similar odor.)
Diane said: Unfortunately we did lose Elizabeth, but I am hoping she will reconsider her decision. She did state to me privately that her decision to leave was Quote "and to a great extent it's not even about Sandy" Unquote.
Elizabeth said: Diane quotes from my message only what she would like you to see. What I actually said was the following: "This isn't a snap decision, and to a great extent it's not even about Sandy, although I happen to agree with a lot of what she's said recently. It's more the shift in philosophy that has taken place over the past few years, to the point that it's no longer the fun for me that it once was. I'd rather work on my personal pages, where nobody's going to tell me I should do it a certain way or criticize me for what I'm doing or not doing. There are some other issues too, but that's the main one that has brought me to this decision. To those of you who have written me privately in support, I offer my public thanks as well. I understand why you are not speaking up on this list. (Webmaster's comment, You get your ass kicked off the Project, that's why.)
So there you have it Boys and Girls. If anyone wonders why USGenWeb has declining membership you only have to open your eyes.
Hey, did I tell you Sandy got kicked out of NCgw a day ago? Sure did. The count is now up to about 50 of CCs who have been kicked out of NCgw, or CCs who told NCgw to stick it up their preverbal hole. Good luck with a grievance. The SC who kicked Sandy out is also the Chairperson of the grievance Committee. Good luck, Sandy, yeah, good luck.
The read the truth why Sandy was booted GO HERE.
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Comment:
I remind you of this link as it's a perfect fit for what is happening on in NCgw:
http://www.genwebstalkers.com/smear_merchants.htm
The SC quoted (made up) anonymous sources as a basis for expelling Barnum from NMgw. (NMgw had some 15 CCs at the time but the SC quoted all 80 of them!!!!!!!!!!!)
It amazes me how much NMgw and NCgw are alike.
Post from the SC today: This is a long one. July 31, 2009
From: "Mike & Diane" <garebel@roadrunner.com>
I realize a lot of you have questions, have heard rumors, and think we are in total chaos right now. I want to put your minds at ease by letting you know who, what, why, when and how things have come about as they have since I became a C, then SC and up to and including today. This is a little lengthy, and for that I apologize but there is a lot that needs to be said, explained, and hopefully we can all have a discussion on it. I want to include everyone in the things that are being done and will be done so that we all have a voice in the future of the project. On that note, I am being as open and honest with you as I possibly can.
Before I became a CC and even after I noticed that some sites were awesome and others had been neglected for long periods of time and some had next to no materials on them whatsoever. I emailed the then CC of Duplin for months with various things to post to the site and never heard a word. I then emailed Denise, asked about the CC and why no response and offered to take the site over. Denise questioned me, if I had HTML experience, genealogy experience, etc and eventually agreed to let me take Duplin County and so I began adding the information I had collected and built a relationship with various researchers and the site took off.
I eventually felt comfortable enough to question why some sites were never updated, had no info, etc was given some answers and explanations, didn't like them or understand them sometimes but who was I to question what the SC was doing, had done or how the Project was run or other sites maintained. So I kept to myself in my little corner of the project and eventually started adopting other abandoned sites.
Fast forward.... I have noticed over the years I have been here that some sites have fallen into my disrepair, CC's never answer emails when I tried to send materials for them to post, I had researchers Emailing me complaining about various sites, etc. I decided then that if I ever got the chance I would run for SC to see if I could help turn the project around, get all of the sites updated, broken links fixed and get us on the right path again and try to help everyone work together to make NCGenWeb a Project to be proud of.
So, basically my goals to work towards with everyone's help are:
1. To get all broken links repaired on all of the sites. We are off to a wonderful start! I have seen some awesome improvements on a great number of the sites and I am really proud and pleased with each and every person that has worked to help accomplish this goal. Some CC's are still MIA and not responding to emails...hopefully they will read this and respond?
2. To get new materials transcribed and added to all of the sites on a regular basis. I will help you with this as much as I can or you will allow me. I will transcribe early census records, if I live close enough I will go and photograph and transcribe cemeteries for the sites, I will even try my best if the counties are close enough to go to the court house or register of deeds to obtain copies of materials for you to post on the sites.
3. To get new county site requirements and bylaws approved so we can move forward with re-incorporating the project and to start towards guiding us all into having a huge project and one that we can all be extremely proud of We are working on these as we speak, we currently have a discussion open on the county requirements.
4. To get new CC's in the project and to aid and assist everyone into building a huge network between all of us in trading materials to post to the various sites so we all have new materials and the researchers benefit greatly from this and will start contributing more as well.
I know some of you got pretty Po'd and peeved with me when I started sending the reports out to each host. I didn't do it to be bossy, bitchy, to try and point out what is wrong with this site or that site. I did it to improve researchers visits to our sites and to help you by giving you a tool to use to help in updating the sites. Yes, I did come across strong and gruff with it, and I did apologize and I still apologize for that. Although my intentions were meant to help, some still took it as I was out to pick on them and to hurt them, which is far from the truth. I did it to help our project improve.
We do have a board which consists of myself, Ron Dailey, Katherine Benbow, Taneya Koonce and Derick Hartshorn. Derick will be sending out an email explaining the board to you, as well as asking for a vote from each of you to confirm it. I tried to include 2 members of the project besides myself and the ASC's that I thought would be fair and impartial, and I hope that you do approve of my decisions.
Over the last week or so I have gotten numerous complaints from members of NCGenWeb Project as well as complaints from members of the USGenWeb Project about Sandy. Some CC's were threatening to quit, others were stating how they were afraid to send messages through the mailing lists, etc. The following are some excerpts from those emails, names removed to protect everyone's identities:
From one CC: (I was included on a personal response to her)
If being quiet makes you think I'm afraid of you, you are wrong. Just as on the Discuss list, I'm quiet right now because I'm observing and learning people. That is not to say that I don't have strong opinions and will express them.
You would have been told by me that I took any remarks as a personal attack. I don't have the time or the extra energy to play games unless it is with my grandchildren.
In my own observances though, you have given me the impression that you do not like the USGenWeb. Out of curiosity, why do you continue to be a member? The similarity would be joining a club and discovering that you have little to nothing in common with the other members. This has happened to me and I just quit going to the meetings and did not pay dues the next year.
From another:
Excuse me for saying so, but this is the last bad apple in the project. Everything has to be a detailed full on assault.
From another:
I do not participate on the mailing lists for fear that Sandy will attack me just like she attacks everyone else. I prefer to just read the mail and if I have a question or comment I will email you directly. I hope this is ok with
you.
Another:
Please take Sandy to task for the way she is treating everyone! I do not appreciate the way she speaks to others and I do not appreciate having to read her attacks in my inbox.
Another:
If something isn't done to control Sandy and the way she is allowed to speak to members of this project I will resign from being a member of NCGenWeb. We all read it and have to deal with it on the National lists but I think it is high time someone put a stop to her and I believe you are the right person for the job. I think every CC would personally send you a huge thank you for doing so.
Another:
I will be resigning from maintaining my site within the next few weeks if I have to keep reading the trash that Sandy decides to spread and the attacks she deals onto people. I do not appreciate it and I feel sorry for the ones
she attacks on every email they send. That is why I refuse to send a message through our mailing lists.
These are comments to me from people outside of our project who sometimes read our archives and read her messages on the National Discuss list:
From another project member:
NC has come a long ways in recent months. Located some interesting info there awhile back and had had no luck previously. Thank you for what you are doing. Perhaps ignoring Sandy would do more good than responding. I think
she enjoys a good debate.
I was sent this message that was in response to one from Sandy:
No, Sandy. It isn't all about me, it is about ALL of the coordinators that have worked together and got along throughout the years. Not all of us have such a jaundiced view of UsGenWeb. I can only think of about 5-6 that are constantly bitching about how imperfect UsGenWeb is. Sure, any organization can use some improvement and I have seen much improvement over the years but most of us don't spend all our time trying to change it. We are happy
working to improve our own little patch of the Internet where we work. Most of us try to be considerate of others without insulting everyone that doesnt(sic) agree with our viewpoint. If a person can't get along with a lot of other people, maybe it isn't the other people's fault. In many things throughout life. One learns to play the hand you are dealt instead of complaining about the hand.
From another:
I feel sorry for any state that has to put up with her. And you know what? If she would use that energy she has for good...WOW!
And the list goes on. I received quite a few today before it was made public that Sandy had been removed from the project, some even pointing out archived messages on when other "disruptive" CC's were removed as well as pointing out some of the attacks that Sandy had sent through. I would like for each of you to go to the archives and read messages from 2002 to get a small taste, and please read other years as well to see the pattern that has
taken place over the years. Any bit of a hint of dissatisfaction, someone voicing an opinion, etc and Sandy is right there in the middle of it attacking, blaming, etc.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/NCGENWEB-DISCUSS/
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/NCGENWEB
So, it wasn't an axe to grind, it wasn't just the CC complaints and threats of CC's quitting that prompted this decision. It is a combination of the complaints, threats to quit and all of the documented outbursts, disruptiveness, attacks, etc that Sandy has sent out through the years that finally gave me no choice but to do something. As I told someone else, I would rather lose 1 good CC than to lose many great ones.
Unfortunately we did lose Elizabeth, but I am hoping she will reconsider her decision. She did state to me privately that her decision to leave was Quote "and to a great extent it's not even about Sandy" Unquote.
I know this is long but I hope it explains some things, answers some questions and quells any rumors you might have heard.
So, please feel free to start a discussion on the discuss list, email me privately, ask questions, fuss at me, whatever you feel needs to be said or done, please feel free to do so. I will not hold it against anyone as I am sure a lot of you have many frustrations and resentments built up. I do ask that you not be rude or curse me, maybe just smack me around a little if needed. : )
Thanks for listening,
Diane
NCGenWeb SC
NCGenWeb CC
NCGenWeb Special Projects
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Email today to Diane S. from D.L. July 31, 2009
Hey there Diane, I just wanted to drop you a note of thanks ... for helping to prove my "corruption suit" against the USGenWeb. As you know, I am filing a suit against Tina & the AB for denial of Rights of Members, due to the Grievance Committee rejecting my two grievances.
As you know, from Sturgis Rights of Members, "If any of the associational, property, or parliamentary rights of a member are violated, legal action may be taken against the organization." And as you know, both of my grievances were based upon rules of the USGenWeb being broken, and my right "To insist on the enforcement of the rules of the organization and of parliamentary law."
Neither the Grievance Committee, the AB nor the NC, can deny me my right to insist that the rules be enforced. Big Mistake in doing so, as it resulted in the first suit against the USGenWeb ... and the denial of that right of mine, based up corrupt leadership exercising personal grudges, rather than upholding the Rights of Members.
I was waiting to file the suit because you were elected SC of NCGenWeb, and I figured it wouldn't take long for your corruption to appear there, and then I could add it to the suit to help prove my point. Now I will be filing the suit next week.
In your expelling Sandy from NCGenWeb, your statement to her that "For some time you have shown that you are very dissatisfied with NCGenWeb as well as the USGenWeb Projects. You have clearly shown the dissatisfaction through various emails as well as the lack of interest you have shown through your work on the Vance County site," as the reasons for expelling her go a long way to show personal grudges are more important to you than the rules.
It also shows that the Chair of the Grievance Committee has no problem with expelling someone with no fair hearing ... that is against the Rights of Members, "To have a fair hearing before expulsion or other penalties are applied." It certainly shows your true character, you could care less about the rules, your grudges are more important to you.
You claim that some NCGenWeb Board voted to expel Sandy. That Board exists only in the minds of the likes of you, and Derick "The Mad" Hartshorn who was forced to resign as SC. No such Board was voted into place by the NCGenWeb CCs and thus has no authority over the CCs. Same with rules ... rules not voted into place by the CCs, have no authority over the CCs.
As for Sandy ... this great country of ours was made great, by dissidents who protested the way things were and who fought for change for the better. I'm sure you know that Sturgis gives USGenWeb members "the right of the minority to protest and be protected," not to protest and be expelled. Further from Sturgis, "Parliamentary law is the procedural safeguard that protects the individual and the group in their exercise of the rights of free speech...."
Sandy exercised her right of free speech, and got expelled. That's illegal, and nothing but corruption by leadership. If some folks, you & Hartshorn included, do not like what Sandy has to say, did it ever dawn on you that you have the right to delete her messages? Do you realize that you have the right to not reply to them?
So Sandy's Vance County doesn't live up to your perceived perception of what a "good' site should be and consist of. Does that give you the right to impose your concepts upon other members? Obviously you have a major problem dealing with anyone else who does not live up to your personal standards ... you cause disruption, disharmony, and a law suit ... the USGenWeb would be better off if you resigned.
As I am sure you know, there are valid reasons for removing a CC from office after a fair hearing, and there are non-valid reasons backed up by Sturgis. Non-valid reasons include: poor performance, a tendency to cause friction and disagreement, and unsuitability to hold office.
If you can't play by the rules, or abide by the rules ... leave the Project.
D.L.
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Post script: Silver lining: We will no longer have to endure reading the exchanges between Sandy and Jeff over his proposed bylaw changes. (just kidding a little)
Post script question: How the hell can a USgw State Project incorporate without the prior approval of the members? How can people appoint themselves to any Board?