Nov 1-7 1999

From merope@Radix.Net Mon Nov 1 19:14:45 1999

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:14:43 -0500 (EST)

From: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

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Same as it ever was...its Your Daily Board Show!

*warning* contains editorial content. Read at your own risk!

Saturday 30 October 1999:

Claiming "overwhelming" feedback in support of Richard Howland, Ginger

Hayes posts, "I move that Richard Howland be appointed by this Board to

the position of Northeast/North Central County Coordinator Representative,

to fill the vacancy created by Bonnie McVicar-Briggs resignation." [Ginger

must have received the supportive notices privately. There has been no

traffic on this issue on the NE/NC mailing list.]

The motion is seconded by Maggie Stewart Zimmerman.

The NC calls for a vote on Motion 99-26, stating, "Now that Motion 99-26

has been made and seconded to appoint Richard Howland as the new

Northeast/North Central County Coordinator Representative, and whereas

there seems to be no need for discussion, please cast your vote by saying

your equivalent of - yes, no, abstain."

By the end of the day, 9 board members had voted "aye" to Richard's

appointment. [This makes him the new NE/NC CC representative; if he makes

it that long he'll serve out the remainder of the term which ends Aug 31,

2000.]

More On Old News: We've heard that at least one person responded

unhappily to the Ebay auction of Brian "Taco Night" Leverich's shorts

earlier this month. "Elizabeth" with the address of "help@rootsweb.com"

posted to an NC GenConnect board that she was disgusted with the auction

and would no longer be contributing any information to Root$web. Her post

and follow-ups were promptly removed. [The Masked Avenger strikes again,

we think!]

Today's quote is from an anonymous reader. They tell me it has a hidden

meaning concerning the recent appointment...

"I'm all in favor of the democratic principle that one idiot is as good as

one genius, but I draw the line when someone takes the next step and

concludes that two idiots are better than one genius."

---Leo Szilard

This has been your Daily Board Show.

-Teresa Lindquist

merope@radix.net

-------

From merope@Radix.Net Tue Nov 2 14:46:27 1999

Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:46:25 -0500 (EST)

From: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

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To: Daily Board Show <usgw_all@listbot.com>

Subject: Daily Board Show

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On double-secret probation...its Your Daily Board Show!

*warning* contains editorial content. Read at your own risk!

Sunday 31 October 1999:

Three more Board members vote "aye" to appoint Richard Howland to the

vacant NE/NC seat. [This is 12 ayes, 3 not voting, and 1 position

vacant. Congrats to our newest Board member, and also to the Board for

fulfilling their obligation to Rich after he came through for them on the

election certification. For those keeping score, the three not voting

were Gloria Mayfield, Ginger Csizewski, and Kay Mason, who has been MIA

now for 5 months.]

Teri Pettit points out that the web page still shows Jim Powell's old

email address and asks webmaster Pam Reid to change it to his current one

[jpowelljr@gru.net]. Jim says he's sorry he forget ot ask to have it

changed. Pam says she doesn't remember being asked to change it and

thanks Jim "for saying you forgot to let me know. I thought I was

losing my mind..."

Terri Pettit forwards to the Board a message from project member Pat Sabin

that all members should read [search the 1999 BOARD-L archives

for "oct and sun and concerns"]. Pat points out a number of things in her

letter. She first notes her support for David Young, based on his

"continuing, unstoppable enthusiasm for the Project" [hear, hear]. She

then notes, "My concern prior to the election is still a concern. I think

the Advisory Board and the RootsWeb Cheerleading team, often one and the

same, have a tendency to dismiss opinions that are expressed by those you

have called the "Screamers....I think the recent growth of the A.L.H.N. is

the result of *many* disgruntled CCs and SCs, including former USGenWeb

Advisory Board Members, quietly moving their pages, or starting new pages

in a different environment. For every hysterical CC who makes a bold

announcement on the CC list, there are twenty who make no announcement,

but are quietly transferring their affiliation to another organization."

She states that the issue is "is RootsWeb's hold on the USGenWeb Project"

and urges the Board not to make the mistake of thinking that it is only

the "banned and blocked" who are concerned about this. She indicates that

she is herself ready to sever her relationship with RW at any moment. She

also feels it is wrong for the Board to acquiesce to RW's banning policy,

stating "All CCs and SCs should be allowed to participate in USGenWeb

lists and vote without special dispensation. The existing situation is,

in my opinion, intolerable." Finally, she mentions the issue of the

argument between the Archives and the Census Projects, stating "Frankly,

the debates on this issue have convinced me to maintain *all* on my data

on my county pages."

Various Board members have replied to Pat's message, being careful in

most cases to say that they respect her opinions but don't agree with all

of them:

Joe Zsedeny addresses only the Archives/Census issue, saying "The Census

problem will be addressed once the Board reaches a full complement... I

attempted to work the problem in that vein during the last Board session

without success prior to proposing Motion 99-12. I sent private emails

which were snubbed or sluffed off. Not one iota of compromise could be

reached. Thus, Motion 99-12. It got everyone's attention and expressed the

frustration felt by the majority of the Archives file managers who play by

the rules and in a democratic way help make those rules."

Ginger Hayes posts "I think maybe it is time we started exploring the

possibility of a more formal arrangement between the USGenWeb Project and

Rootsweb.com, Inc. I think maybe if the line between the two were less

blurry and if the rights and responsibilities of each entity were spelled

out, a lot of this hassle could be alleviated."

Terri Pettit responds more in depth to Pat's individual points. She notes

that there was simply more feedback in favor of Rich and she had to go

with what was expressed to her by the CCs. She agrees that no concerns of

any member of the project should be dismissed by the Board, "even those

who are in a minority and those who tend to express their opinions in an

overly strident manner." She mentions that "we" [meaning the Board?] are

"hoping to work out some way to gather SC and CC input that is easy to use

and not overly intrusive on those who want to keep their mailboxes free of

politics. Something like an online forum or discussion board, on a

non-Rootsweb server." She notes that "The fact that nobody with a

strongly negative stance toward Rootsweb has ever won an election for a

national office suggests that the majority of the SC's and CC's have

opinions that roughly align with those of the board members they voted

in," although she admits the majority may not be very large. Terri notes

that she favors "putting all policy decisions DIRECTLY in the hands of the

voters, rather than having the board decide them. The board should deal

with implementation, and let direct votes of the volunteers set the

direction." [uh oh, more radicalism.] She discusses at length her

feelings about the RW cluster(f) pages, noting that she doesn't understand

the concern over what are essentially automated indexes, and she also

discusses the large overlap in mission and style between ALHN and USGW.

She discussses her misgivings about GenConnect at length and notes, "When

GenConnect became associated with Rootsweb, Rootsweb seemed to

claim rights to the "compilation" that might imply CC's did not have

the right to use it as a front-end for reformatted queries anymore...I

think we should get a clear written answer from GenConnect and Rootsweb

what the policy is on this kind of reformatting." In regards to Pat's

concerns over RW's banning policy, Terri states "I view the Rootsweb

banning policy as problematic too...if we cannot get Rootsweb to change

their policy about banning people they perceive as "telling lies" about

Rootsweb, I would favor moving all of the official lists to a server that

was not directly involved in genealogy." She believes this issue should be

placed for a vote before the CCs and not be decided by the Board. She

summarizes her points thusly:

"1. I think we should encourage diversifying servers and mirroring

web sites on multiple servers, because no matter how good a

provider is, it weakens us to be so dependent on the stability

and accessibility of a single web presence provider.

2. I think the County Cluster pages are not competitive and

pose no threat, intended or actual, to USGenWeb county pages.

3. I do not fear that Rootsweb intends to ever sell our data.

4. I *do* fear that Rootsweb may place restrictions on the use

of GenConnect-collected data and queries that makes it

much less than ideal as a data-collection mechanism.

5. I think that the Rootsweb policy of banning those who

object vociferously and undiplomatically to Rootsweb actions

poses serious problems with using Rootsweb to host our

official project mailing lists.

6. I am concerned about the public perception that USGenWeb

is "part of" Rootsweb, and think we need to do much more

to visibly distinguish ourselves as a separate project."

And on the topic of the Archives, Terri notes, "I think the name-calling

and fence erecting that is going on between these two projects is childish

and counter-productive too. But I am not at all convinced that it "needs

attention" from the Advisory Board. I'm afraid that giving attention to

the combatants will will [sic] just open up a new round of "he said - she

said" accusations." She notes that she is in a minority on this issue;

most of her fellow Board members are "more eager to "do something" about

it". [I'm not doing justice to this post; you are recommended to go read

in full.]

Tomorrow's News Today: GenConnect responds; Motion 99-26 is declared

passed.

Mystery O' The Day Corner: "Someone" sent me this interesting graphic.

Anyone know where it came from? It is believed to predate the bylaws, and

if that's true, its a very interesting historical document indeed.

http://www.radix.net/~merope/gifs/weborg2.gif

Announcement Corner: New and heretofore quiet Board Secretary Ed "Eddie

Baby" Book posts an announcement confirming the appointment of Richard

Howland to the vacant NE/NC CC representative position. The announcement

was sent to all the regional lists, the CC list, the ALL list, the DISCUSS

list, and interestingly enough, the ARCHIVES list, but not to any of the

other Special Projects lists. Guess they don't rate.

Money Root$web Can Only Dream Of Corner: Genealogy.com, LLC [Broderbund to

you and me <g>] has sent out a press release entitled: "A&E Television

Networks, Hearst Interactive Media, Mattel, and Top Private Equity Firms

Form Genealogy.com, LLC. Proven Technology Leader in Genealogy Secures

Nearly $38 Million in Funding With Backing From Major Media Corporations."

According to the press release, "A&E Television Networks, Hearst

Interactive Media, Mattel, Inc. (NYSE: MAT), Thomas H. Lee Partners and

Weston Presidio Capital today announced a joint partnership to back a

newly formed company called Genealogy.com, LLC. Formerly the Broderbund

genealogy unit of Mattel, Genealogy.com received $37.5 million in initial

funding and expects to extend its position and expand the genealogy

technology business through a more aggressive online presence and by

continuing its leadership in the retail software category." The new

partners intend to expand the genealogy.com and GenealogyLibrary.com sites

significantly. To read the press release in full, please visit:

http://www.genealogy.com/press-110299.html

"A popular government without popular information or the means of

acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce, or a tragedy, or perhaps

both."

---James Madison

This has been your Daily Board Show.

-Teresa Lindquist

merope@radix.net

------

From merope@Radix.Net Wed Nov 3 14:21:40 1999

Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:21:39 -0500 (EST)

From: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

Reply-To: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

To: Daily Board Show <usgw_all@listbot.com>

Subject: Daily Board Show

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Curiouser and curiouser...its Your Daily Board Show!

*warning* contains editorial content, not for wimps. Read at your own

risk!

Monday 1 November 1999:

Pam Carey Durstock, of GenConnect, forwards an email to Board-L [addressed

to Teri Pettit, but forwarded by Tim Stowell] addressing Teri's concerns

about GenConnect and USGW queries. Pam states, "Neither GenConnect nor

RootsWeb have any objection whatsoever with a CC reformatting copies of

the queries from a GenConnect board which that CC admins, and putting the

reformatted queries on their website ... no matter where that website

is..." According to her, "What is *not* permitted is removing them from

the board once the copies are placed on your website...These original

queries are not to be destroyed on the GenConnect board where they were

originally posted...Only under clearly defined situations may individual

queries be deleted without the poster's permission. And under no

circumstances may a board be "wiped out" without the permission of all the

posters." She recommends that CCs that want their queries to reside only

on their own site use Query Express.

Ginger Hayes responds to Pam Durstock, saying that she herself is not a

fan of GC, and she doesn't think that "the present use of GC by the USGW

Project CC's is fair to either the CC's or the researchers. As has been

stated, and shown, numerous times, GC is not a part of the USGW Project.

It is in fact a stand alone project and those CC's who use it are in fact

GC volunteers. The problem comes in that CC's who began using GC thought

it was "theirs", and that perception was fostered by GC." Researchers are

led to believe that queries left on GC boards are being left with USGW,

when this is not the case; "Material that they believe they are submitting

to USGW is actually being submitted to GC, and is not under the care

and/or control of the USGW Project, the intended recipient." She says it

is her "firm belief" that "any USGW Project affiliated website that uses

GC as a means of collecting queries and other information should carry a

disclosure statement informing researchers that any information submitted

to these boards is being submitted to GenConnect, that GenConnect is not a

part of the USGenWeb Project and any material submitted there is not under

the care and/or control of the USGW Project." She also notes, on the

issue of reformatting queries for posting elsewhere, "I have not seen

anything plainly posted informing a visitor that by placing a query on the

board they are also giving permission for that query to be copied and

reposted elsewhere."

Joe Zsedeny weighs in on the debate because he feels that "there has been

misconceptions about the role of the many tools provided by Rootsweb and

Rootsweb itself versus the USGenWeb." He decided against using the GC

boards when he found he would lose control of the queries by doing so. He

agrees with Teri's thoughts on the cluster(f) pages and enthuses about the

Archives search engine. He discusses briefly the purpose of the Archives

itself and its relationship to RW and notes that he is a RW sponsor,

stating "There is just no better deal around." He also suggests that if

the USGW project can find a server to mirror its information for free, we

should consider it. He closes with this, "Volunteerism is the expression

of a kind heart. Lets look for the best in what we do and have and not

just for the worst. You now have a Board that will listen, answer

questions and respect your opinions, but not always agree with you.

Talk to us and we will listen. But if we don't, be sure and vote next

time." [Does this imply that we formerly _didn't_ have a Board

that would listen to us? No surprise there.]

Motion 99-26, to appoint Richard Howland to the vacant NE/NC CC rep

position, is declared passed by the NC, and Rich is welcomed to the Board

by Joy Fisher.

Today's quote is from a reader:

"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million

typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of

Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."

---Robert Wilensky

This has been your Daily Board Show.

-Teresa Lindquist

merope@radix.net

------

From merope@Radix.Net Thu Nov 4 08:23:31 1999

Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 08:23:29 -0500 (EST)

From: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

Reply-To: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

To: Daily Board Show <usgw_all@listbot.com>

Subject: Daily Board Show

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You can run but you can't hide...its Your Daily Board Show!

*warning* contains editorial content. Read at your own risk!

Tuesday 2 November 1999:

Seven Board members welcome Richard Howland to the Board; Teri Pettit

compliments him on his various webpages [he's got several of RW's

non-genealogy lists in addition to his genealogy interests]. Rich

replies, "Thank You for the chance to join in the effort."

News From Other Places Corner: According to US News & World Report,

Root$Web is going to start prying into the family histories of

presidential candidates. On Nov 7, "a new Internet firm, "RootsWeb.com,

will begin a worldwide genealogy search of the whole presidential field.."

According to the webmaster Sean Walsh the hope is to "see where the next

lost cousin, Billy Carter, or horse thief in the family are [sic]."

[Yes, lets violate the privacy of and humiliate the candidates _and_ their

relatives.] You can read the blurb at:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/991101/1whispers.htm

The New Zoo Review Corner: According to this week's New Zoo Review

[which I am still getting spammed to my mailbox weekly], Root$web has

helpfully published a list of its affiliates at

http://www.rootsweb.com/~affiliate/partners/partners.html.

They are encouraging webmasters to place "the RootsWeb affiliate partner

links of their choice on their pages. The affiliates will then pay

RootsWeb a percentage of all purchases made through these links."

Listowners Catch On Corner: The listowner for the Root$web list

Newbie-Listowner-L has noticed that despite her wishes and apparently in

direct contradiction to information provided by Brian "Sell My Shorts"

Leverich, her list is being archived. Although she has asked for an

explanation of this, thus far none has been forthcoming. The listowner

writes, "Brian told us that if we did not want our lists archived,

that was our option. We were later told that if we used one form of

archives, we also needed to use the other, but that we still had the

option of whether or not to have archives available. Brian himself

assured us of that more than once... What else has changed? Can we no

longer believe anything Brian told us??"

Grand Design Corner: We are pleased to note that after six months or so,

the RadioFree USGenWeb page finally has a logo. This was submitted by a

reader who found it while researching genealogy on Root$web. Hope you

like it!

http://www.radix.net/~merope

"I remain just one thing, and one thing only -- and that is a clown. It

places me on a far higher plane than any politician."

---Charlie Chaplin

This has been your Daily Board Show.

-Teresa Lindquist

merope@radix.net

--------

From merope@Radix.Net Sat Nov 6 08:14:58 1999

Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 08:14:57 -0500 (EST)

From: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

Reply-To: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

To: Daily Board Show <usgw_all@listbot.com>

Subject: Daily Board Show

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Look, Ma, no hands!...its Your Daily Board Show!

*warning* contains editorial content. Read at your own risk!

Wednesday 3 November 1999

There is no Board-L traffic on this date.

Thursday 4 November 1999:

There is no Board-L traffic on this date.

What's Yours Is Mine Corner: Once again the Archives is embroiled in a

messy situation involving files that have magically found their way into

its directories. The Vance, NC CC has found the Archives file manager

responsible for her county "rummaging the USGW county pages and taking

what's posted there and putting that data in permanent FTP files for the

Archives Project on Rootsweb." According to the file manager for NC,

permission was obtained from the submitters, although the CC states that

it was not. The NC file manager also notes that to his knowledge, this

apparent data harvesting is occurring in nine other NC counties. This is

interesting for a number of reasons: 1) the information in question was

submitted through county-affiliated GenConnect Boards; under the new

Root$web AUP, RW has the right to "archive and redistribute" any material

posted to its servers. Does this include the right to transfer GenConnect

submissions directly to the Archives? 2) Submissions to the Archives are

permanent; submitters have no rights to remove their information once

submitted. Is it the contention of the Archives or its staff members that

posting information to one Root$web resource confers permission to post to

any other, even though the submitter has no opportunity to review and

consent to the more restrictive conditions for submission? 3) This is not

the first time that Archives personnel have made somewhat creative

assumptions about other people's work in order to put it into their

database.

Creative Acquisitions Corner: One creative way to put other people's work

into the Archives is to use another project to obtain it. For instance,

there is a project called the U.S. Biographies Project

[http://members.tripod.com/~debmurray/usbios/usbiog.html]. Like the

USGenWeb Project it was founded by Jeff Murphy, but it is now managed by

Deb Murray. It is not affiliated with USGW or RW, and is entirely

independent of them. Yet, if you visit the U.S. Biographies home

page and click on a number of states [Kansas, Missouri, D.C.] you will

find that the links go directly to the USGenWeb Archives pages for those

states. The implication is, of course, that any biographical material

submitted to those states goes straight into the USGW Archives Projects.

On some of these pages, there is no link to or mention of the requirement

that any material submitted is submitted permanently. [As someone

affiliated with the USBP mentioned to me, "have they no shame?"]

Spam, Lovely Spam Corner: An ISP called Midwest.net has blocked all mail

from Root$web as spam. According to a RW listowner who contacted

Midwest.net, a technical staff person told her "they had had 50 to 100

complaints from their customers regarding spamming," and midwest.net would

not lift the ban. After some back and forth between listowners, Tim

Pierce and midwest.net, midwest.net agreed to lift the ban, but Tim later

reported that mail was still being refused with a "550 Reject for spam"

message. [As of this morning, the ban has apparently been lifted; which

ISP will be the next to ban RW as a spammer?]

Good For A Laugh Corner: A little tidbit found in an email archives

search:

"When I was "listowner" of this list, I never banned anyone, kicked

anyone off, or monitored the messages."

---Linda Lewis, 23 September 1998, USGENWEB-ALL

"Just because you like my stuff doesn't mean I owe you anything."

---Bob Dylan, 1995

This has been your Daily Board Show.

-Teresa Lindquist

merope@radix.net

-------

From merope@Radix.Net Sat Nov 6 16:09:43 1999

Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 16:09:42 -0500 (EST)

From: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

Reply-To: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

To: Daily Board Show <usgw_all@listbot.com>

Subject: Late Breaking News

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Late Breaking News:

We've received word here in the DBS newscube that a new genealogy-related

project is in the works and will be announced shortly. Called

"Migrations", this new project is apparently the brainchild of Patrick

Hays, who is active in both the American Local History Network and the

USGenWeb Project. Although no formal public announcement has yet been

made, the home page of the new project is publicly available at

http://www.migrations.org, and you can also view a number of state pages

that are already online.

-Teresa

merope@radix.net

From merope@Radix.Net Sun Nov 7 22:15:48 1999

Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 22:15:46 -0500 (EST)

From: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

Reply-To: merope <merope@Radix.Net>

To: Daily Board Show <usgw_all@listbot.com>

Subject: Daily Board Show

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Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right....its Your Daily Board

Show!

*warning* contains editorial content. Read at your own risk!

Friday 5 November 1999:

There is no Board-l traffic on this date.

Working Overtime Corner: The Jeff Murphy Awards for Excellence

in USGenWeb Pages for the month of November 1999 have been announced. You

can view the new crop of worthy winners at:

http://pweb.netcom.com/~gsdownr/jmaward.html Nominations are also being

accepted at this URL for the December awards.

Which Way Did They Go Corner: As announced yesterday, a new genealogy

project called "Migrations" is starting up. We've been told that the

formal announcement of the project will be made on Monday November 8. In

the meantime, you can view the pages at: http://www.migrations.org

"Only the suppressed word is dangerous."

---Ludwig Boerne

This has been your Daily Board Show.

-Teresa Lindquist

merope@radix.net

-----