Redding Profile Crimp Die

The Problem

Black Powder shooters are having problems with black powder bullets telescoping down into the rifle magtube when switching from black powder to smokeless powder. When using a caseload of black powder, the Lyman 427098 bullet rests on top of the black powder. This black powder load can be compressed powder but the bullet is held in place by the black powder and the cartridge in front of it when in the rifle mag tube. The bullet can be crimped on the driving band rather than over it when used in a rifle thus allowing for a few more grains of black powder. Usually from 32gr up to 38gr...sometimes even 40gr when compressed .17" to .21". The crimp used over the front of the driving band is to prevent inertial dislodgement from recoil when used in a revolver. 

This method does not work when using smokeless powder. The bullet has nothing to rest on thus can be pushed down into the case when loaded in a rifle mag tube without proper retention. When using smokeless powder a bullet must be used that has a crimp groove cast into it for the application of a roll crimp. If using a black powder bullet without a crimp groove such as the Lyman 427098, the bullet must be loaded into a tight case neck and it must still have a good tight crimp. The roll crimp does not work well for various reason so a "squeeze" crimp is needed. This "squeeze" crimp can be made with a Lee Factory Crimp Die or with a Redding Profile Crimp. The Redding is a superior crimp (more on the Lee down below) but with either, both options need to start with good neck retention. Neck retention is achieved by resizing the case neck as small as the smallest die will allow and expand out as little as possible, enough to where any given bullet diameter will be seated snug but without crumpling the cases mouth.

Neck Retention

Neck retention is achieved by using a smaller resize die than those used for larger diameter bullets. Small diameter bullets can be as small as .4255 and as large as .431. If using .4255" size bullets, you need to resize the case neck smaller than you would for a .429 bullet. 

note: Neck Retention is one reason why the loader should resize new brass. This is not necessary when using black powder when the bullet sits on top of the powder charge. However, accuracy may suffer if the cases are not uniform.

Step 1. Resize Dies

The Lee-44-40-B7 resize die resizes a new Starline case neck I.D. to .420". The smallest I know readily available, ideal for small diameter bullets.

RCBS "Cowboy" Die resizes a new Starline case neck I.D. to .422 for a difference of .002", the larger allowing for bullet slippage. The Lee is not much smaller but it helps in addition to other steps that add up to good neck retention.

Step 2. Expanding Dies

Using the smallest expander plug I have, the Lyman "M" die #7342102, the plug measured .4225 with the bellow step out to .4275. This gives nice snug neck retention.

 When the bullet is seated in the .420 I.D. expanded neck, the neck bulges out to an O.D. of .43" giving .014" for neck retention....not much. Other dies leave .0000" like the RCBS Cowboy Die for  a .4255" bullet application.

Step 3. Crimp Die

It is the handloader's choice on what works for them through trial and error but here is where I suggest one start.

The third and final aid is a tight crimp to match the type crimp groove on the bullet. Using a lead bullet with no crimp grooves, crimping on the forward most part of the forward driving band is a must. Whether on or just over the lip is the handloaders choice. My examples are simply examples.

An LFCD should work if the other steps are taken into consideration. Simply trying to keep the bullet from moving in, out or even twisting with only a crimp is not gonna work. The LFCD can be hard on the brass, indenting and leaving a permanent "ring" around the case mouth. Works well with soft lead as it leaves a somewhat "square" crimp BUT leaves "bumps" that can split later. (see more down below).

A Roll Crimp step is not a good crimp for lead bullets without a crimp groove or when using a 427098, rolling in front of the driving band. There is nothing there but the neck retention to hold the bullet when using low volume smokeless powder. That part we already know.

Solution

For lead bullets of any size (for the 44-40 of course), prefered softer lead....AND original Winchester/Remington JSP bullets, the Redding Profile Crimp is a sure thing.

1. Resize case necks as small as possible (duh within reason)

2. Expand as little as possible but enough not to cause case crumpling

3. Use a Redding Profile Crimp for 44-40 profile bullets.

Redding Profile Die

The Redding is designed for .427" diameter bullets with a curved O'give from the case mouth to the meplat. If used with the larger diameter bullets, it will damage the bullet right at the exposed forward driving band. If continued force is applied, it could get ugly. Any bullet with this exposed flat driving band is not a true 44-40 profile bullet. However, if the bullet is a .427" diameter or small bullet, it could work but go slow and see what happens. I prefer using a roll crimp with bullets that have a roll crimp groove but thought I would add this in here just in case.

In my opinion the Redding crimp works in two parts working together;...  

1. For lead bullets without a crimp groove, the first part "roll" crimp works best. The roll is so shallow it is more like an exaggerated taper crimp that forms to the O'give curvature (Bullet Profile), rolling enough to squeeze into the soft lead. 

2. The "second part" is evident when crimping the small diameter (.4255) Winchester and (.426) Remington JSP bullets. Just like any other die, the amount of the crimp needed is adjusted by screwing the die in further. The number of turns the die is turned in from the .428" 43-214A crimp setting to the .4255" Winchester JSP "U" crimp setting is only 5/8 of a turn.

In the photo below the difference in the "two part" crimp should be evident. First is the roll crimp into the start of the crimp groove. This crimp is nice and snug (in addition to the smaller resizing die size case neck) on the curve of the canular's bottom edge. This first part, the roll crimp, prevents the inertial dislodgement from recoil when used in revolvers. The second crimp (really only one crimp step) is a "U" shape that forms to the inside of the curved canular groove. This "U" shaped formed crimp prevents the bullet from telescoping into the magtube of a rifle due to the pressure from the mag tube spring.

The 44-40 Redding Profile Die does not work well with any 44 caliber lead or jacketed bullet that does not have an original 44-40 O'give profile. When using the popular 200gr Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullet, this die may hit the exposed forward driving band. 

When the Profile Die is used properly, a canular in the case below the bullet's base is not needed. ALWAYS test a batch of your handloads before shooting. This can be a learning process but I promise you will like it once you get the hang of it.

John Kort touches more on neck lengths.

"I have found that over the years, the .44 W.C.F. / .44-40 cartridges historically have had slightly different case neck lengths depending on the bullet and powder used. Most factory neck lengths I have measured on vintage headstamped cartridges, W.R.A. Co., UMC & Peters, have been anywhere between about .33" to .38" with the exception of the Rem-Umc 140 gr H.P. loading whose cannelure is .26" from the case mouth and the long obsolete Game Getter round ball with the cannelure positioned at just .15" from the mouth opening. 

Today, case neck lengths on current factory ammunition average around .33" for cartridges having 200 gr. bullets which have a seating depth of about .30" for the lead variety and .33" for jacketed. One exception to this is Winchester Cowboy ammunition which carries a 225 gr. bullet. It has a neck length of about .40". The bullet seating depth of the 225 gr. lead bullet is .37".

You will note in both cases that the factory necks containing lead alloy bullets are about .03" longer than the seating depth of the bullets, giving the bullet extra support in addition to the crimp. This is not so important if a capacity load of black powder is used since it will support the bullet to keep it from potentially telescoping back into the case under spring pressure from the magazine. However, it is important when using most smokeless powders since there is airspace in the case.

Factory smokeless cartridges with 200 gr. jacketed bullets have a case cannelure at the case / bullet base juncture to support the bullet base. This method has been used since the advent of dense smokeless powders in the early 1900's. Since the crimping groove depth on jacketed bullets is shallower than most lead alloy bullets, the cannelure is vital to help keep the jacketed bullet in place. Since most of us don't have a canneluring tool, the extra .03"+ neck length will also act as somewhat of a cannelure when using jacketed bullets.

Now to the problem. I have tried 2 different .44-40 R.C.B.S. dies, both the Cowboy and the standard versions. They will size the necks back to a .33" length, but no further. I am not sure about Hornady, Lyman, Lee, or Saeco. If you are using any of these die sets, please enlighten us on the case neck length they will produce.

The .33" length neck is fine if one is using the 200 gr. Magma or similar bullet which has a seating depth of .30". It will also work fine regardless of the bullet seating depth if you are using a case full of b.p. or one of the b.p. substitutes.

The .33" length neck does not work well when using smokeless powder and jacketed bullets with a seating depth of .33", or bullets that need to be crimped over the front driving band such as Lymans historically correct 427098 .44-40 bullet. The unsupported bullet base can give way under spring pressure while in the magazine and the bullet can end up down in the case. Been there, done that and more than once!

The answer was to machine about .07" from the back of the sizing die, allowing the case neck to be sized back up to .40". Actually, on second thought, I decided to have .10" removed to allow for a .06" long bullet support under a bullet with a seating depth of .37" if need be. One can then adjust the die for what length neck is preferred.

Fresh Winchester factory brass for reloading, has the same longer neck length which is important if you are using jacketed bullets or bullets similar to the tried and true Lyman 427098 .44-40 bullet."

There are other methods, more than one way to skin a cat, but proper resizing/expander diameter dies are a must along with a crimp that works for the application as I have already posted. One crimp may look like any other but it's the SIZE that counts.

One die, two crimps for soft lead bullets without a crimp groove and (but not limited to) small diameter JSP/JHP bullets.

Below Left - .428"

Below Right - .4255"  

Note:   The case on the right was resized smaller than the case to the left. Notice the smaller diameter bullet pressed into the smaller resized case creates a "wasp waist" under the bullet...somewhat of a "canular" helping to keep the bullet from getting pushed down into the case. For you youngsters that don't know what a wasp waist is, it's the figure a girl has when wearing a corset.