Embedded Files
Wells updated p3 - 10-18-22.pdfOverview & timeline:
January 2022: Orcas Sewage Design to finish drawings and submit to the county.
Office Phone: (360) 376-2762, PO Box 492, Eastsound, WA 98245 rick@orcasdesign.com
County filing link:
Approved November 2022
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In process: Obtaining bids:
In process: Obtaining bids:
Island Excavating -- April Nance - 360-376-2122
11-21-22: Called and emailed dee@islandex.net to see if they still do that type of work.
11-22-22: April Nance replied asking for design and address, which i sent on 11-23.
12-9-22: Emailed asking for an update. Silence.
3/28/23: Sent email asking if they could take a look at the project.
Viking Excavation (Justin Frausto's number is 360-317-6797)
office number is (208) 731-4898 440 Sunset Ave, Eastsound, WA 98245
11-21-22: Sent the approved plans to Justin by email. He replied saying "I will take a look this week or next. Since this is a short week & just got back to orcas. I was at a funeral service in California. Most likely I will talk with the designer & make another on-site visit. The County has been a mess lately & taking long on all sorts of permits. I will be in touch."
December 9, 2022: I emailed, asking if there was any update.
December 12, 2022: He replied: "We went to the site last week with the new septic design in hand. Im planning on talking with Rick Petro about the design this week & then plan to get you a quote to do the work. "
December 17, 2022: Justin wrote "Hope you are doing well. I have done an on-site visit & spoken with Rick Petro about your updates. I actually installed the tank by the guest house & drain-field when I worked fro Bart Curtis back in the day. The trench from the existing tank through the trees will be difficult, also the tank digs look to have some rock to hammer & the site is way out there. All these factors go into the quote process. I have attached a quote sheet with the scope of work & cost to do the work. Let me know if you would like to be dialed into the schedule or have any questions?"
Bid total $58.6k including tax. Full bid is pictured at the very bottom of this page.
Jan 23, 2023: I emailed Justin with five questions, including, critically: "Lastly, if we agree to go ahead, when can you start? Do you need a deposit?"
He replied same day and said "We do not need a deposit. You are officially on the schedule & will work on giving you better timing on we will start. Currently we are not too far out on starting a new project. I will start ordering parts & calling for you utility locates. Having that 50 foot setback dealt with 1st would be good."
January 27: I replied "Thanks for your reply. I am a little uncertain about answer 5, being officially on the schedule/not too far out. A little more clarity? I do want to give Dawn and Rory as much warning as possible. I’m impressed with the 5-8 biz day estimate. How many guys on the crew? In any case, please handle the surveying arrangement. I’m traveling overseas through Feb 7 so will have sporadic access to email."
January 31st, he replied:
"Give me ring when you have time if you want to chat more about the project on the phone instead of email? I know you are traveling over seas etc. I have contacted the survey company. Im waiting to hear back on what their schedule is to get your survey done. Wanted to communicate that there will be a cost for this to get done. Im sure you where thinking that. I just like to communicate with the client & be up front about everything.
Once we have a survey date, we can give you an install date. Officially on the schedule means you are on the jobs that are a full go. Obviously we have this minor hurdle in this instance of getting a survey done 1st. Yes totally understand on giving Dawn & Rory as much notice as possible. We will defiantly communicate with you on the people on the property once we have some dates. Yeah we have bunch of guys, several dump trucks, lots of excavators, loaders, skid steers, rollers / compactors, mini excavators, mini track dumps, etc.
I have started ordering parts for your project. I will be in touch once I know the surveying schedule.
Feb 1: I replied (Gmail timestamp of Wed, Feb 1, 1:27 AM because I was in Amsterdam) "No additional questions at the moment but please let me know what survey cost when known. Please understand that there are nine distinct owners (plus several spouses) that share in decision making for the property, so specific details are extremely important in providing transparency and not blindsiding people with bills. I’d appreciate your help in that regard."
That same day, Wed, Feb 1, 12:29 PM, I received the half-price bid from Bart.
I sent the following at Wed, Feb 1, 7:19 PM to Justin: "Justin, I have just received a bid much lower than yours. Please hold while we consider what to do."
He replied Wed, Feb 1, 7:24 PM with this: "Ok. I have all ready payed San Juan Surveying a $500 dollar retainer to do the survey + have ordered your septic tanks."
February 9, 2023: Justin sent the following "Wondering if you are back in the states. We have been working, communicating with you on this project for almost 18 months, we have been on-site 4 times looking over the job & talking with the caretakers, on Jan 27th you told me to take care of the survey, I have all ready giving money to san Juan surveying to get things rolling. Just trying to figure out how you wanted us to do the job/everything is a go & than you send & email saying please hold. This is not how things work. I take my job/company with a-lot pride & very seriously, when the client tells me to do a job, I start working on it right away, as there are a ton of parts, pieces, paperwork etc for this job. I have all ready ordered your 2 septic tanks as the supply chain for quite a few parts is still grim. Let me know whats happening please?"
I called and talked by phone. I asked him for another bid, which he seemed amenable to.
Feb 28, 2023: I emailed him "Hi Justin, just checking on what we owe you. Also, wondering if you had any thoughts on the estimate. I’d like to make it work with you if I can present a defensible bid to the family."
March 16, 2023: I called him. He was in Vegas with his sidekick Ian. He said they would look at it when they got back to the Island. As of 3/28, silence.
Shaner Excavating - Bathan Shaner
11-21-22: Left Bathan a voicemail 360-317-6220. Seemed like his personal voicemail. No website or email found.
11-22-22 he returned my call and said he is booked for six months but I could send the plans to bathanshaner@gmail.com. Sent 11/23.
11-29-22: He sent a bid for $61k, not including "electrical or archeology." Yikes. Full bid at very bottom of this page.
December 5, 6, 7 2022: I emailed and called for clarification. It seems he is bidding high and leaving lots of wiggle room.
Feb 25, 2023: After poor responsiveness from Bart and Justin, I emailed Batahan and asked if he could revisit his quote. His response was: "Let me check out my numbers and costs. I doubt I’ll be doing it for significantly less than my quote. I’m happy to recommend another contractor to try as well. Who have you tried so far?" As of 3/28, I haven't responded.
Orcas Island Construction Company - Bart Curtis 360-376-2176
In September 2021, Orcas Island Construction Company bid nearly 30k using the plans from 2010.. Viking looked at the plans and said we'd need the county to approve updated drawings, so nothing happened.
12-1-22 Sent Bart an email with latest plans and requested a new quote. He responded within an hour "Yes, I will rebid and get back to you."
Jan 5, 2023: I emailed him and asked for any update. He replied: "I should have a price to you next week, the last two weeks were a complete mess with the weather and Christmas. " Followed by four weeks of silence.
February 1, 2023. Bart emailed an estimate for $32k, about half of the other bids. Image of the bid at the very bottom of this page.
February 6th, I emailed the following questions:
The electrical connection seems like a wildcard. Who would you recommend to do it, does it come at the beginning or end of the timeline?
The trenching and tank digs sound like major efforts. How long would the work last? What would the impact be upon Dawn and Rory? Will there be days when the septic system is unusable by them?
Lastly, if we agree to go ahead, when can you start? Do you need a deposit?
February 17 and March 13, 2023: Hearing no response, I emailed to see if he got my questions. Silence.
March 28, 2023: Called and left a voicemail,.
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Septic Design Log:
Sept 29 2021
Justin Fausto of Viking Excavation visited the site to check about completing the 2010 design.
October 12 2021
Justin says after checking with Orcas Sewage, design will need to be re-done.
October 13 2021
This is what Rick Petro of Orcas Sewage Design wrote by email:
The design was approved in 2010, and part of the design was also installed that year. An installer has one year to start the installation of a repair design after approval, and one year to finish the installation, per county code. Therefore, the installation was considered complete and a record drawing made of what was installed The part of the design showing components not installed became obsolete.
For you to now install the other two tanks for the main house and get a building permit, a tank-only design will be required. This new permit will be valid for 5 years. I'd be happy to work with you on your new design.
October 14 & 15
He has responded with $1,500 for the drawings and $185 fee for the county review. I'd say we go for it so we can get other contractors aside from Bart to bid on the job. I told him to go ahead on the 15th. He replied it would take about three weeks.
November 8
I checked with him about progress and he wrote that he needed more info about any possible expansion. I said we had nothing definite so could we work with leaving an option. Silence in response.
Nov 16 - I checked again by email and asked if we should have a phone call
Nov 19 - Still no response. Emailed again about having a phone call.
November 23
Received an email with the attached letter:
Dear Mr. Westmont,
In the process of our design work, we have been advised by the County that the following environmental condition(s) exist on all or a portion of this parcel, TPN 360111001
Fish and Wildlife Habitat Conservation Areas/Flood Zone.
Geologically hazardous areas which include steep slopes, erosion-able soils, and/or unstable Bluffs
The county is requiring a report be submitted by an environmental specialist that addresses these issues, prior to approving your septic design and/or a building permit, to comply with the county’s critical areas area regulations. We would be happy to make these arrangements for you and coordinate with the consultant(s) and the County.
If you have already had an environmental report completed, please forward a copy so we may include it with our design application. Also, please feel free to contact us if you have any questions.
December 13
After some emails with Robert/Jeff and the land use consultant Jeff Otis to see if he could fit into the process (not possible), I asked Orcas Sewage to go ahead and arrange the critical areas report.
December 22, 2021
Received invoice for design and the compiled design with the paperwork for the county.
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January 11, 2022
Sent the following email to Jeff & Robert
Hi Jeff,
I reviewed the septic design on the phone today with Rick Petro of Orcas Sewage Design and I think everything is in order. The full schematic is in one of the attachments.
They asked that you send two checks, one for their service ($1500) and a separate one of $185 payable to the county to be attached to our design submission. Details below.
I've restarted the search for contractors to see if we can do better than the ~$30k bid from Orcas Island Construction. Rick thinks it is likely we can line up something for the summertime.
- crw
Jan 27
Checked in with Orcas Sewage and this is what I received in response:
We received payment 1/24/22 and the design went out to the county for approval the same day. We will notify you when the design is approved. In the meantime, you can check the status by following the link below. Currently, the county portal does not reflect receipt of the design; it should show up within the next week.
Thank you, Erik Hajnal - Bookkeeper/Purchasing Manager
Orcas Sewage Design
P> (360) 376-2762
Feb 14
I emailed that nothing was showing on the link. Rick said the county was backed up.
March 6&7
Checked again. He responded that “The design is currently in the planning dept.under environmental review.”
March 24
Checked again. He wrote that “Your design is still under county review as there seems to be an issue with water setbacks.”
April 14th - Checked again. Similar response.
May 6
Checked again. He wrote that “The health dept. manager has a meeting with the planning dept. next week to resolve the setback issues, as for some reason the planning dept. thinks they can supercede state and county health requirements.”
May 20th - Checked again. No response.
Jun 1 - Checked again. No response, but received an invoice for $1,650 dated 5/31/22 for geology hazard assessment.
June 3 - Called the office and talked to admin who could make sense of what was going on. Said she’d check into it and get back to me.
June 9 - emailed Rick again.
June 14 - He replied "There's nothing definitive yet, but I'll get back to you. "
June 22 -- I emailed again. He replied same day with this:
Part of the delay has been in getting the geo-hazard report from the geologist, which was just submitted on June 1st. There are only a couple geologists around here and they have been very backed up. We are still trying to work through the tank location issue, which is new, with the Planning Dept. I hope to have more for you soon. You can go to the county website - https://co-sanjuan-wa.smartgovcommunity.com/Public/Home - then plug in your tax parcel number and check for permits pending.
July 15th -- I emailed again, pointing out that two fields in the permit status page were marked as "not complete" despite the overall application saying "All Submittals Received - Review in Progress " -- see screen shot below.
July 18th -- he replied with "I'll look into it."
August 2 -- I emailed asking for any updates.
August 3rd after 5pm, I left a voicemail at their office.
August 8th or 9th, I called the office. Spoke to two different people. A woman (named Chris Vierthaler -- chrisv@orcasdesign.com) said the problem was the county didn't have the geo-hazard report. I told her it was submitted June 1st. She said she would look into it and get back to me. As of the 10th, still no response.
August 12th -- called the office again. Chris said the design was still with the county planning department and that they are asking for unrealistic things such as putting the septic tank uphill from the house. I raised the issue of a couple of red flags in the county permit status page. She said she would check into it. At this point, it is safe to assume she is not checking into so I am contacting the county myself.
I filled out the County contact form online and tried calling the County office: Planning/Permits: 360-378-2354
August 16 -- received an email from the county. Several emails were appended to the response, basically showing that the ball had been in Orcas Sewage Design's court for weeks.
I called Orcas Sewage and spoke to Chris, and she apologized and said they were sending the updated site plan to the county today. She said I could check back next week to see if there were any updates.
August 23 -- Called and emailed Chris at Orcas Sewage. No response.
August 31 -- giving up on Orcas Sewage, I emailed the county to see if they had everything they need and asked for a timeline. This is the contact info:
Yancey Bagby Planner II - Direct Line (360) 370-7581 <yanceyb@sanjuanco.com>
SAN JUAN COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
360-378-2354 | 135 Rhone Street | PO Box 947 | Friday Harbor, WA 98250
September 6 -- the county (Yancey) replied: "The proposed 2 bedroom structure cannot be permitted as a living space in the water quality buffer. The added septic components must be removed from the septic plan for that application to be approved."
I forwarded that email to Rick and Shawn Petro, and Chris, at Orcas Sewage Design -- asking them to remove the expansion components.
September 7th -- Rick repled, saying "We already did that in our latest revision to the county and explained that the buildings were existing and that at least one of them had plumbing (per the assessor)."
September 8th -- I sent an email to Yancey at the county repeating Rick's statement and asking if there was more to the story.
Friday, September 9th -- Yancy replied:
"Existing does not mean legal. Looking through the assessors info and permit history it appears that there is one non-conforming single family residence a garage car port and two sheds. Accessory structures and septic components cannot further intrude into the water quality buffer. I have highlighted the requested changes to the septic site plan."
https://parcel.sanjuanco.com/PropertyAccess/Property.aspx?cid=0&year=2020&prop_id=17391
-> The proposed drawing changes are at the bottom of this web page.
Wednesday, Sept 14 -- i forwarded Yancy's email to Rick Petro and asked if they could make the changes the county wanted. He emailed back the next day and asked "Wii the proposed 2 bedroom house increase in bedrooms?" My reply on the 16th was:
"Not entirely sure what you mean. To recap, at some point, we'd like to have sufficient septic capacity to do an expansion. Our current idea -- with no drawings, no budget or approvals -- is to convert the annex adjacent to the main house into a 2-bedroom bunkhouse. But since that evidently causes major heartburn for the county, maybe we'll have to locate it elsewhere. Even if we locate it further away from the shoreline, I wouldn't expect it to be larger than two bedrooms." He replied "thanks for the clarification."
Friday Sept 23 -- After hearing nothing for over a week, I emailed to ask if the updated plans were submitted to the county. He replied "We should have the updated plans back from the draftsman any day, then we'll forward to the county." The game of ambiguity, evasion and delay continues.
October 3 - Emailed Rick again. As of October 7th, no response.
October 7th -- called the office. Spoke with Bonita: "Rick just signed off on the plans today, and we are sending them to the county today." I guess I'll check in with the county next week.
October 14th -- Emailed Yancy at the county. She replied two days later, on Sunday the 16th: "I have not received the requested changes." I emailed Rick on Monday. He replied Tuesday afternoon with: "We sent them in a couple of days ago, so I'll check back with the county tomorrow or the next day."
October 16th -- Yancy at the county office replied they have seen no updated plans. I forwarded that to Rick. He replied on the 18th saying "We sent them in a couple of days ago, so I'll check back with the county tomorrow or the next day."
October 24th -- I again asked Rick for an update. Rick replied on the 26th and said it is still under environmental review. I emailed Yancy at the county office to see if there was any update on their end. No response.
November 4th: I emailed Yancy again. Yancy replied:
I still have a site plan that shows a connection to the third most seaward structure and must be removed. That structure is a nonconforming shed and cannot be improved into a guest, house bunk house or any other habitable space or install septic connections in the water quality buffer. Any existing lines that are replaced must me sleeved in the 112.5 ft water quality buffer, form an Identified Ordinary High Water Mark. I not received the
November 7th. Rick emailed Yancy and cc'd me with the updated drawings submitted to the county on 10-28-22. I checked in with again on the 11th, and he said the design was approved! Whew! Now, onto the bid phase.
_approved Wells design 11-14-22.pdfPage updated
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