Pre-Flood Nuclear Wars? REALLY? No Evidence of Them and the Perils of Imposing Modern Views and Biases When Interpreting Old Myths
Kevin R. Henke
September 15, 2022
In a discussion on the Hellenistic Era, Lundahl (2022f) makes a passing comment on the existence of nuclear wars before Noah’s Flood:
“Objection 2
Athens and China pretend to have started with Kekrops and Fu Hsi who had human torso and arms and head, but below the torse the body of a large snake.
Answer
Probably they were both born in the time after the Flood when cosmic radiation was higher from above and radiation from pre-Flood nuke wars in the ground was higher too, and were born with legs not properly separated, and managed to move by wiggling around. This didn't stop them from becoming leaders, unlike what it would in these days of medical tyranny.” [my emphasis]
In Henke (2022b), I responded to this comment:
“Once more, Lundahl (2022f) makes a huge mistake of just assuming that whatever view an ancient community may have had about its origin, it must be reliable history. No. Such stories about the founding of various communities may be fairly accurate history or they may contain legends or consist entirely of myths without historical evidence. It’s the job of historians to separate history from fantasy. Although we have plenty of evidence about New Amsterdam proceeding New York City, there’s not a shred of evidence for the existence of Moses or the Exodus, Moroni’s ghost and his golden plates, or the events in Matthew 28 and Acts 2 (Finkelstein and Silberman 2001; Fitzgerald 2013; Loftus 2010; Loftus 2011). Rather than realizing that half-human and half-snake creatures are probably just made-up stories like the centaurs, Lundahl (2022f) thinks that they may have been humans with fused legs. While such a birth defect is certainly possible, his reasoning for this defect in Lundahl (2022f) is not. Without any evidence whatsoever, Lundahl (2022f) argues that nuclear wars before Noah’s Flood contributed to their conditions. Of course, Flood geology is bogus and there’s no evidence whatsoever in the Precambrian for a 4,400-to-6,000-year-old civilization with nuclear weapons (see my essays against Flood Geology here). If Mr. Lundahl has evidence for such a nuclear ancient civilization, I want to see it and I’m willing to change my mind. Until that evidence ever comes forward, Mr. Lundahl is totally failing to separate history from his fantasies about the nuclear pre-Flood civilizations. The speculations about pre-Flood nuclear wars in Lundahl (2022f) are so bizarre, outrageous and unfounded that I doubt that even the young-Earth creationists at Creation Ministries International and Answers in Genesis would take them seriously.” [my emphasis]
Lundahl (2022o) then responds to my bolded comments and presents his worthless “evidence” for pre-Flood nuclear wars:
“The evidences for pre-Flood nuke wars are:
· Hindu memories of the pre-Flood world involving visions of "gods" that become "brighter than a thousand suns" (cited by Oppenheimer);
· Hindu memories of the pre-Flood world involving a divine arm that spreads death at a distance, but can be avoided by ducking under an obstacle;
· this being a probable concurrent explanation with higher radioactivity from the cosmos for shortened lifespans, birthdefects like those of Kekrops and Fu Hsi, faster production of C14, leading to a rise from atmospheric 1.4 pmC at Flood (2957 BC) to 100 pmC at the Fall of Troy (c. 1180 BC).
It is not foolproof, but it is some. Now, Kekrops seems, according to Castor of Rhodes, to be very much too late to have lived in this more radioactive than ours world, but as the name was a recurring one, the list of the kings of Athens given on wikipedia from him could very well have been shortened.”
Where did these supposed pmC (percent modern carbon) numbers in Lundahl (2022o) come from? Once more, Lundahl (2022o) fails to provide any references to support his claims about Hindu myths, carbon-14 production in 2957 and c. 1180 BC, and birth defects from supposed high radiation levels in ancient China, Europe and elsewhere. Lundahl (2022o) just expects his readers to trust his sources, whatever they are, and that he is accurately quoting them. As for the Wikipedia list of Athens Kings that Lundahl (2022o) cites, it also says that Zeus turned King Periphas into an eagle. Are we to believe that too?
Of course, birth defects can result from exposure to certain chemicals and a number of other factors, and not just radiation. Seeing a nuclear explosion is also not required for humans to invent stories about gods being “brighter than a thousand suns.” It only takes an individual seeing the Sun and having a good imagination, a pen and something to write on to make up such a story. Also, a “divine arm” is no evidence of nuclear fallout. People could easily imagine what they would do if they were being chased by a huge Hindu god. To avoid the grasp of the giant god, they would hide behind an obstacle! Anyone that’s ever tried to get a kitten out from behind a couch or refrigerator knows how small animals flee from much larger animals – they duck behind obstacles. Lundahl (2022o) has not presented any evidence of pre-Flood nuclear wars. Vague stories about Hindu gods are not good evidence. Mr. Lundahl needs to find evidence of melted steel and other human artifacts in-place in the Precambrian “pre-Flood” rocks. He doesn’t even have a shred of evidence that there ever was a Noah’s Flood in 2957 BC or so.
The Van Dāniken crowd mistreats ancient art and literature in the same way as Lundahl (2022o) and other young-Earth creationists. They improperly impose their modern views and biases when interpreting these ancient works. The Van Dāniken crowd see flying saucers and extraterrestrial aliens in old stories and paintings, including stories from the Bible (e.g., the wheel in Ezekiel 1:15-25 is supposedly an extraterrestrial spacecraft rather than in all probability just being the product of a human’s imagination). So, imaginative ancient humans invented stories and pictures, and modern humans without any justification impose their modern views and biases when interpreting these ancient works.
Lundahl (2022o) continues with some additional comments on dates:
“The oldest known human presence in Athens is the Cave of Schist, which has been dated to between the 11th and 7th millennia BC.
And that (11th millennium BC) means times just before Babel, in my recalibration of C14.
But yes, my objection 2 was obviously, China and Athens with Kekrops and Fu Xi (pinyin spelling for Fu Hsi) were "unbelievable" stories of how communities originated and my answer is, they were in fact not unbelievable. China and Athens also confirm the general trend that communities know how they originate.”
Lundahl (2022o) needs to base radiocarbon dates on dendrochronology and lake varves, and not on dates derived from his interpretations of Genesis myths (e.g., Dellinger et al. 2004). By the way, the Bible “dates” in Lundahl (2022o), Lundahl (2022m) and Lundahl (2022d) don’t agree with the numbers that other young-Earth creationists use (e.g., Sarfati 2015, pp. 125-132). Certainly, Orthodox Jews and most Protestants would argue that the genealogy in the Masoretic text is the correct one. They would disagree with Lundahl (2022m) and the Septuagint. Sarfati (2015, p. 130) even refers to the Septuagint chronology as “inflated.” The point is that the genealogies in the Masoretic and Septuagint texts contradict each other, and Mr. Lundahl, Orthodox Jews and Protestants can’t agree on which list is the right one. However, all of these genealogical dates totally lack any evidential support. There’s no reason to believe any of them. Also see Henke (2022do).
Now, Lundahl (2022o) finds the stories about Kekrops and Fu Xi to be believable, while I do not. People can make up any story. The only way to settle this dispute is for Mr. Lundahl to produce evidence that these stories are real. He has the burden of evidence. Otherwise, skepticism is always the default (Henke 2022dv).
References:
Dellinger, F., W. Kutschera, K. Nicolussi, P. Schieβling, P. Steier, and E.M. Wild. 2004. “A 14C Calibration with AMS from 3500 to 3000 BC, Derived from a New High-Elevation Stone-Pine Tree-Ring Chronology”, Radiocarbon, v. 46, n. 2, pp. 969-978.
Sarfati, J.D. 2015. The Genesis Account: A Theological, Historical, and Scientific Commentary on Genesis 1-11: Creation Book Publishers: Powder Springs, GA, USA, 786 pp.