It’s the Archeology that Demonstrates that Alexander the Great Existed and Not Any “Hellenistic Community”
Kevin R. Henke
September 15, 2022
In Henke (2022b), I said the following about Hellenistic Era and Alexander the Great:
“I didn’t bother in Henke (2022a) to discuss the origin of the Hellenistic Era and Alexander the Great’s contribution to it. Nevertheless, McDaniel (2019) deals with the topic and begins her discussions with the following statement:
“Finally, we have what is perhaps our greatest piece of evidence in favor of the existence of Alexander the Great: the Hellenistic Era (c. 323 – c. 31 BC).”
In response, Lundahl (2022f) gives the following rambling reply on the Hellenistic Era, which is incredibly bizarre and includes an absolutely baseless claim about nuclear wars before Noah’s Flood:
‘McDaniel, 14.VI.2019 [McDaniel (2019)]
The Hellenistic era shows it started with Alexander
Kevin R. Henke, 1.III.2022 [Henke (2022a)]
no mention.
My reply
The Hellenistic era is a kind of cultural community (to which among others Apollonius of Rhodes belonged) and a community usually knows how it started.
Like New York knows - independently of old archives, which actually also are accessible as confirmation - that it began with Nieuw Amsterdam.
Exactly as "the Jewish Church" knows it started with God making a covenant with Moses, and that it later split into Jewish proper and Samaritan after the rule of King Solomon.
Exactly as the Catholic Church knows it started with Christ showing Himself to be God by the Resurrection and making a covenant with His chief disciples, Matthew 28, followed by the sending of the Holy Ghost, Acts 2.
Objection 1
Rome thought it was founded by Romulus, but wasn't.
Answer
Romulus doesn't need Mars for actual father to have existed, and apart from that, ditching the story in Livy is guesswork.
Objection 2
Athens and China pretend to have started with Kekrops and Fu Hsi who had human torso and arms and head, but below the torse the body of a large snake.
Answer
Probably they were both born in the time after the Flood when cosmic radiation was higher from above and radiation from pre-Flood nuke wars in the ground was higher too, and were born with legs not properly separated, and managed to move by wiggling around. This didn't stop them from becoming leaders, unlike what it would in these days of medical tyranny.
Objection 3
Mormons thought there were 5th C. AD Mormons on later COTUS territory.
Answer
Yes, but they are quite aware that they themselves as Latter Day continuators of a supposed Mormoni actually started by Joseph Smith.’ [original emphasis]
The sources of the “objections” mentioned by Lundahl (2022f) are unknown. McDaniel (2019) says nothing about Romulus, Kekrops, or Fu Hsi.
Once more, Lundahl (2022f) makes a huge mistake of just assuming that whatever view an ancient community may have had about its origin, it must be reliable history. No. Such stories about the founding of various communities may be fairly accurate history or they may contain legends or consist entirely of myths without historical evidence. It’s the job of historians to separate history from fantasy. Although we have plenty of evidence about New Amsterdam proceeding New York City, there’s not a shred of evidence for the existence of Moses or the Exodus, Moroni’s ghost and his golden plates, or the events in Matthew 28 and Acts 2 (Finkelstein and Silberman 2001; Fitzgerald 2013; Loftus 2010; Loftus 2011). Rather than realizing that half-human and half-snake creatures are probably just made-up stories like the centaurs, Lundahl (2022f) thinks that they may have been humans with fused legs. While such a birth defect is certainly possible, his reasoning for this defect in Lundahl (2022f) is not. Without any evidence whatsoever, Lundahl (2022f) argues that nuclear wars before Noah’s Flood contributed to their conditions. Of course, Flood geology is bogus and there’s no evidence whatsoever in the Precambrian for a 4,400-to-6,000-year-old civilization with nuclear weapons (see my essays against Flood Geology here). If Mr. Lundahl has evidence for such a nuclear ancient civilization, I want to see it and I’m willing to change my mind. Until that evidence ever comes forward, Mr. Lundahl is totally failing to separate history from his fantasies about the nuclear pre-Flood civilizations. The speculations about pre-Flood nuclear wars in Lundahl (2022f) are so bizarre, outrageous and unfounded that I doubt that even the young-Earth creationists at Creation Ministries International and Answers in Genesis would take them seriously.”
Lundahl (2022o) comments on the bolded section in the above quotation from Henke (2022b):
“But the problem Henke doesn't get around is, McDaniel actually used the existence of the Hellenistic community as evidence for Alexander - as he [sic, she] should. It cannot be the "job of historians" to examine such stories without any bias in favour of a community's own version of its origins, if a historian also has the "job" of affirming the existence of Alexander by a) proving the Hellenistic community existed; and b) sourcing this community (as per its own evaluation) to Alexander. As McDaniel, perfectly correctly, actually did.”
First of all, McDaniel (2019) never refers to a “Hellenistic community.” She discusses the “Hellenistic Era”, which is a time span of history arbitrarily defined as beginning with Alexander the Great and ending with Caesar Augustus in 31 BC (Martin 1990, p. 124). McDaniel (2019) actually says:
“Finally, we have what is perhaps our greatest piece of evidence in favor of the existence of Alexander the Great: the Hellenistic Era (c. 323 – c. 31 BC).”
Now, I don’t agree with her conclusion and I never said that I did (see Henke 2022ey). So, Mr. Lundahl, that’s how I get around your fictional accusation against me in Lundahl (2022o). The statements in the ancient histories that have actually been confirmed with archeological evidence are far better in demonstrating that Alexander the Great existed than names, whether historical or mythical, that have been assigned to describe artificial partitions in human history or other topics, such as the Pre-Columbian period in North America, supposed Pre-Noahic civilizations, the Pre-Mosaic law, etc. Historians must question every claim that an ancient culture makes about itself – that is their job! These claims are often myths and cannot be taken at face value.
Later, Lundahl (2022o) makes some final comments on McDaniel (2019) and the Hellenistic Era that simply repeat some of his earlier errors:
“My conclusion (concurring with McDaniel) is, yes, the Hellenistic era recalling its origins in Alexander the Great is great proof for Alexander the Great and his carreere. And for some reason, Henke doesn't deal with that. Perhaps because he is aware of the implications it's getting here. Objections 1 and 3: 1 was dealt with more fully in He Applies It [Lundahl 2022m] and 3 has been dealt with here: while Mormons think there were 5th C AD Mormons, they are aware of a distinction between these and themselves and are fully aware of themselves going back, directly, to Joseph Smith.” [my emphasis]
I have already dealt with the comments that he makes in this paragraph. My criticisms of Lundahl (2022m) are in Henke (2022cc) through Henke (2022ej). Certainly, Mormons are quite aware of how Joseph Smith Jr. supposedly recovered the golden plates and translated them, and, as I explained in Henke (2022bL), they would reject Mr. Lundahl’s arguments and claim that the transmission and chain of custody of the Book of Mormon is more reliable than the Bible. Furthermore, as I said many times before and as Lundahl (2022o) continues to get wrong, historians look for evidence and not “proof” (Henke (2022b) and Henke 2022ad).
References:
Finkelstein, I. and N.A. Silberman. 2001. The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of its Sacred Texts: The Free Press: New York, USA, 385pp.
Fitzgerald, D. 2013. The Complete Heretic’s Guide to Western Religion Book One: The Mormons, CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform, 336 pp.
Loftus, J.W. (ed.). 2010. The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails, Prometheus Books: Amherst, NY, USA, 422pp.
Loftus, J.W. (ed.). 2011. The End of Christianity, Prometheus Books: Amherst, NY, USA, 435pp.
Martin, L.H. 1990. “The Encyclopedia Hellenistica and Christian Origins” Biblical Theology Bulletin, v. 20, pp. 123-127.
McDaniel, S. 2019. “What Evidence is There for the Existence of Alexander the Great? Quite a Lot.” https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2019/06/14/what-evidence-is-there-for-the-existence-of-alexander-the-great-quite-a-lot/ (last accessed February 27, 2022).