query
COUNTY BOUNDARY POST
There seems to be some confusion regarding the Civil Parish(s) that this Boundary Post, attached to a B0392 road bridge (which allegedly marks a surveyed highway division between the two counties of Somerset and Wiltshire), close to Horningsham junction, is actually located by English Heritage's Listed Buildings entry for this artifact. . .
"The building may lie within the boundary of more than one authority."
As a result of the association (perhaps incorrectly) of Horningsham with Maiden Bradley with Yarnfield parishes by English Heritage, the two parishes share entries in BOTH parishes' Listed Buildings. However, ONLY Maiden Bradley parish is credited as actual location of the Boundary Stone in question. For example. . .
(Basic Search)
Furthermore, it may well be that Horningsham is NOT the only parish, as supposed by English Heritage, that 'may lie within the boundary of more than one authority'. Rather, it appears that Frome parish shares association with our subject. Below is a selection of Views and Maps which might offer clarification. . .
(click images to enlarge)
Views
Maps
Google Search (modified)
Wiltshire History (Horningsham Parish)
(a narrow connection to road/stream)
Observations
Below is a close view of what is presumed to be quite accurate mapping by ITO World ('experts in the collection, management, analysis and presentation of complex transport data'). (a) Shows administration divisions; (b) takes a closer look at the rather complex tangle which is this tricky intersection of parishes and counties. Perhaps the county road signs, being so far apart, reflect this state of affairs (see main item)?
< a
b >
COUNTIES
1 SOMERSET
2 WILTSHIRE
PARISHES
1 FROME
3 HORNINGSHAM
4 MAIDEN BRADLEY
On maps (a) and (b) the parish boundaries of Horningsham, and Maiden Bradley with Yarnfield, are seen to be north of the stream, at a point where an Ordnance Survey cut mark is incised on the bridge. I believe this may be the true location from which the boundaries were surveyed. For practical and aesthetic reasons, the Boundary Post itself was fixed at the middle of the bridge's east face. Moreover, this possible survey nexus point also includes the civil parish of Frome (in Somerset). So, it seems, we may have: Frome, Horningsham, and Maiden Bradley with Yarnfield ALL sharing the survey locus. However, all that may be as it may; the location of the Listed Building is the question; NOT the survey point. In which case, Maiden Bradley with Yarnfield might lay sole claim to this honour - being that the Boundary Post is well enough inside our parish by about four metres. . .
What about Frome as co-owner? Well, another observation is that the actual division between these two counties of Somerset and Wiltshire is a little outside the verge on the B3092's east side (ie: on the road). This would be the final piece of the puzzle which would confirm ownership of the Boundary Marker in situ on Maiden Bradley with Yarnfield territory, as conjectured above.
What is needed to satisfy this query is the ORIGINAL survey details with ground plan technical drawings. It is hoped that English Heritage may be able to access these. In any case, they have been contacted for their informed opinion. When we have that I will post the results here. . .
English Heritage e-mail
TO English Heritage <customers@english-heritage.org.uk>
SUBJECT boundary post query
DATE 6/Dec/2013 17:37
Dear Sir/Madam
I have a query about an English Heritage Listed Buildings entry for a Boundary Post - its correct location and parish allocation.
COUNTY BOUNDARY POST ON ROAD BRIDGE AT JUNCTION TO HORNINGSHAM, FROME ROAD
http://list.english-heritage.org.uk/resultsingle.aspx?uid=1318444
The building may lie within the boundary of more than one authority.
County District District Type Parish
Wiltshire Unitary Authority Horningsham
Wiltshire Unitary Authority Maiden Bradley with Yarnfield
There is a work page demonstrating a line of thought which may indicate that Maiden Bradley with Yarnfield is the ONLY parish location of this artifact:
https://sites.google.com/site/maidenbradleylistedbuildings/listed/frome-road/query
Any clarification would be much appreciated.
Best regards
John Potts
English Heritage reply
11/Dec/2013
Dear Mr Potts
Thank you for reporting this listed building locational error to our Customer Services Department.
You are correct, the original listing in the 1987 volume describes the boundary post as being on the east side of the road in Maiden Bradley parish (as it was then) and would have been marked on the original maps for that parish (which is now Maiden Bradley with Yarnfield).
When the point (triangle) data was created some time ago this would have been placed on the OS symbol (BP) which it nearly is now (there has been a slight map update since then).
Unfortunately there were two problems here. The first is that the OS BP points were taken from the original OS historical mapping and tend to be inaccurate in the sense a lot will be on the road not on the verge. In this case it is both in the road and not central to the parapet.
The second problem is our parish data is not added manually anymore and uses the OS boundaryline product which is not derived from large scale maps and can be vary vague. If our marker triangle in anyway touches this it will bring up two parishes in the record as is the case here.
In the circumstances I have moved the triangle out of the road (which wasn't correct anyway) to the middle of the eastern parapet of the bridge (which is where it is) in such a way that it doesn't touch the parish boundary and will appear as one parish in the official record which was what was first intended.
This correction should be visible on the National List on our website by tomorrow.
Again thank you for reporting this and if you find any other errors do not hesitate to contact us.
Regards
Jeff
Jeffrey R Primm
Mapping and Spatial Analysis Officer
ENGLISH HERITAGE
THE ENGINE HOUSE
FIREFLY AVENUE
SWINDON
SN2 2EH
Adjusted. . .
Sorted.
Although a certain ambiguity remains: "The building may lie within the boundary of more than one authority". However, for legal reasons, it was deemed necessary to have a slight flexibility to cover variables in the mapping of boundaries: "If our triangle on that building is not near the boundary only one set of details will appear. In a situation where listed building consent is required it could cause confusion as to what local planning authority is approached." - EH. In other words, a built in 'fudge factor' to avoid possible future problems. I get that. A sensible caveat (although, as in our query, a bit perplexing for us ordinary consumers, at least in the first instance). Anyway, all's well that ends well. It must be said that English Heritage were excellent in their swift responses and clarity of explanation. Many thanks to: Jeffrey R
Primm (Mapping and Spatial Analysis Officer), for his assistance in this matter.
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30-11-13 / 11-12-13