Carvell
Empathic Listening Feedback: Carvell Wallace
2014-08-08
the fact that you stayed in reflection
meant that I explored.
Interested in doing listening (No) I have to work,
Interested in doing empathy circles? ( )
How was the whole empathic listening experience for you?
It’s cool. I think that it is always interesting. It’s hard for me to take an objective view because I think a lot about experience anyway and a lot about how to talk with people about their experiences. It’s been part of every job I’ve had has been that on some level. So I am aware of the phenomenon of like the fact that you stayed in reflection meant that I explored. That is kind of like motivational interviewing. I then began to build on what I was saying and the more that you reflected back the more that I said. It was like I was sort of the part of me that is a technician around this stuff was aware of that stuff, but the part of me that was a participant couldn’t stop that.
It was kind of cool, this is automatic. Like a reflex, tap me on the knee and my foot kicks, if I say something and you reflect back what I said and then don’t say anything else, I’m going to say some more.
Then there’s another side of you that is outside and looking at the whole space and being aware of what is happening.
And being that, ‘that is totally working’. One of the things I think about in user centered design is what are users used to. I know that when I worked with young people for 15 years, so when I would have conversations like this with them .. frequently, people would be uncomfortable with my lack of opinion. Because they would think it meant that I was hiding something from them, they thought I had an opinion and I wasn’t telling them. And when people are responding and when people have trauma responses. Some prior pain is overwhelming their ability to cope with the given moment, and then usually we project the worst possible thing on what we don’t know.
[idea: Can say to those people who are looking for an opinion that empathy is the opinion. That we need a culture of empathy, that is the opinion]
And I will say this too. This is the 3rd significant conversation I've had today. Where the whole purpose of it was to explore my response and feelings to the things that are happening to my life right now. This thing with the workspace, relationship, etc, and yet, in this conversation I went further with it.
This conversation still had value. So something about the setup allowed me…. That thing about like you said, reflected back this idea about discomfort in not knowing, which I hadn’t really put together. Even though I had conversation this morning that were literally like, we are go through what happen with the guy at work, what the feelings are, what part you might have played. I still didn’t identify the discomfort at the unknowing as the trough line until this conversation.
[note: a new discovery]
How about the whole notion of here at the HUB to have an empathy space? To invite people over. Would you come over if I hadn’t directly reached out to you?
I would be tempted to be suspicious of it because I want to be protective what I consider to be my personal and private stuff. Particularly in a workspace, even though one of the differentiating factors of the HUB is that it’s about a workspace where get to bring your whole self. Like for example just now I just looked over at that guy. I looked over at him and I was not aware that he was wearing headphones. So in my peripheral vision I was like ‘and I’m also sharing with this guy. ‘ I’m going to do it because I’m interested in this process but I was aware that I’m also sharing with this guy.
I would be tempted to be suspicious of it because
I want to be protective what I consider to be
my personal and private stuff.
I guess it’s about ideas how to redesign the empathic listening, to continuously redesign and improving it [make the process ever more empathic and building of empathy]
Putting down the essential part of what works about this is always the question I ask when I’m developing a product. What works? What is the key thing? Like I was telling you about our product test, what we found worked after testing with a couple groups of kids was, this actually, having someone or something take your input and reflect back what they think you might be. That process, whether of not this stuff is accurate, whether or not it was scientific, .. just the fact that they are doing that people like that. Ok, that is the meat of this thing, that is the nuclear cord of this experience for people. So we have to build that out. We have to build around that.
And for this one, for me what really was the nuclear core was this idea that there is no judgments, advice …analysis, detachment… you correctly identified the key thing. I like that you include detachment as one of the things on the NO list because I’ve had the experience of a therapist who didn’t do judgments, etc. but seemed detached. And then that was a bummer. I couldn't open up emotionally.
So what worked for me was the
empathic part of the listening.
So what worked for me was the empathic part of the listening. The fact that you were with me, you we’re nodding with me, you were like, sympathetic, empathic, vibrating sympathetically with what I was putting out. But that was all that you were doing, there was nothing else.
Visually, the flyer is black and white, is a little tricky.. I feel like because this is about a certain kind of opening up and warmth, I feel like I want to the colors and stuff to reflect that. Warm colors within the flyer.
The person has to trust you. That is an integral part. They have to feel like I don’t know this guy but it is cool if tell this guy.
Yeah, how do you build that trust?
If you compare to confession, where a model is similar, they build trust with this big institutional support, like trust this guy, he’s a priest. Second one is that there is anonymity, so that I think those 2 things work to build a sense of trust.
Would you be interested in listening to others? Pass it on?
Interesting… that is a really compelling question.. want to say yes, because that is the right thing to say. But I don’t’ know yet what the answer is honestly.
My first thought is No because become I’m like well, I have to work, it’s all this time I can be sitting here listening to everyone talk about their problems all day. I got to finish this email. Stuff like that. that is my first though. I; in a workspace and I came in today to do this and got to this email, got to finish this presentation.. It’s hard to separate from that.
How about a little space, where you have time in-between to listen to others?
Are you familiar with the app secret.. share your secret and other can build on it. it’s done in secret. Conversations unfold, there are comments.
Various forms of reflection, images, physical reflections, acting … etc.
I went to acting school and we did a lot of that kind of work. My understanding of user experience comes from theater, literally creating experiences for audiences.
My understanding of user experience comes from theater,
literally creating experiences for audiences.