Greg Locke (By T.B.)

Editor's Note: On very rare occasions (this is actually only the second time ever), someone asks Ze Catalist editor Greg Locke for his oh-so-expert opinion on things music. Below you'll find said interview - this about digital media - with Greg from December 10, 2009. 

Tim Barribeau: Given the rise of social media based music (MySpace being the obvious example), how do you think the relationship between consumers and artists has changed?

Greg Locke: We're in the middle of a whole new era. There's a new artist, sound, movement, label or voice every two weeks. There's a new gimmick, band, blog or website every day. Ten, even five years ago, things weren't like this. If you were very good at what you did (or very lucky or very pretty or very connected), you made it. And you maybe had a career if you were very talented and lucky and smart. And if you never "made it," well, your cousin Ralphie and his pals came to your shows and got loaded. And that was the blast of your life. Technology (here speaking of the Internet) is just an extension of Warhol's 15 Minutes theory. For now, anyways.

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. I do like that so many bands are being heard and, as far as I can tell, more people seem to listen to music than when CDs averaged $17 each in 1999. That's a beautiful, amazing thing. But at what cost? The concept of musician-as-artist has changed. No one, not Thom Yorke, not Lars Ulrich, not Kanye West, not Trent Reznor, knows what it means to be a professional musician anymore.

We as listeners ... we ... we listen. That's what we've always done. Our role has not changed. For the last 10 or so years, many of us - not me! - have been listening for free. In fact, while working in a record store recently I overheard something very heartbreaking. A group of young hipster teens dressed in the latest rock garb strolled into the store. One of the children picked up a CD and talked about buying it, this until his friend lambasted him. "Are you serious? You're going to BUY that? I haven't paid a dollar for music in my entire life and I have over 600 CDs."

So now we have a whole generation who don't remember when we, the music lovers, paid for music. They certainly get the concept, but they're experiencing it differently. And in two, three, four years, they'll be the hip, young computer-know-it-all-professionals that we're all trying to keep up with. This has already begun to some degree.

So yes, in short, more music is getting out to more people. That's beautiful. But, in my opinion, that's not the bottom line. The bottom line is that too much change too quickly is doomed. We're in a honeymoon phase right now. What happens when there's no longer a way to download for free and we're all paying $17 to download an album? 

Well, basically, we're paying what we were before, only now we're getting less. This is where things are headed, I believe. Also, if and when this does happen, you can bet that there will once again be labels and much of the same commercial organization there was before in the industry. That’s inevitable. And you know what that means: less people hearing less music. Don't be niave, my illegally downloading friends. You're not as smart as you think you are. You're not ahead of the money grubbing industry types who stand to make a buck. You're part of the nasty game ... for now. You'll pay. Soon. Assholes.

TB: Do you think social media and online purchasing made it easier for small acts to get noticed?

GL: Absolutely. More so, social media and downloading, not necessarily online purchasing. “Would as many bands be getting noticed if everyone paid for everything?” That’s the question I’m concerned with. Sticking with that idea, let me revise that question: “Would as many people be hearing music today, paying for all their music as downloads, as they were in 1998, paying for all their music on CD?” No. Fuck no. I don't think so. The fact that most people are still acquiring their music for free is the reason more acts are getting noticed than before. And don’t fool yourself; most people are getting the goods for free. Check the sales numbers - they tell the story. And sure, of course people like the concept of getting their music rightmotherfuckingnow, but I don't think that people feel so strongly about that perk that, if they had to pay for everything, they'd pay for as much as they did when they were actually getting a piece of product for their money. In the event that it becomes impossible to download for free, things will change. People will not care so much about getting everything right this second when it costs more and there is no alternative. We are surely living in a Now Culture, but people will always care about the tangible to some degree, especially when money is concerned.

As for social media, yes to everything. I think it's great. It has totally changed what it means to be in a band. Surely there's much to say about things being watered down, but there's still good music out there. My favorite album of 2007 was by an artist almost no one would have ever heard had it not been for the Internet and social networking and blogs. We're all finding new ways to discover the music that moves us most. The only real issue I have is that most of the young (say, under 22) people I know don't seem to have absolute, desert island, I-need-this-record-or-I-might-fucking-die sort of feelings towards artists or songs or records like those of us from the album era. These younger people are so used to hearing hundreds of songs a week that it seems like very few of them slow down enough to fall in love with an artist or album. These people like songs. This is going to affect bands in the long run. It will be more about making notable songs than notable albums or careers. Get your one song - your ringtone, your punchline, your TV commercial, your spot on fucking "Grey's Anatomy", etc. - is how you’ll make bucks. This aspect of this new era of listening, to me, cheapens the art.

TB: Many larger acts complain about piracy losing them money. Do you think this holds true for smaller, local bands? Has it effected the way the gain new listeners?

GL: All my friends are in bands and none of my friends make money playing in bands. My friends lose money playing in bands. Big time. They have jobs to pay for their bands, which I think in turn make their time spent as a musician feel more like hobby work than art or something they put hope into. And yes, all art is essentially hobby work. But when you're good at something and you’re talented and you work hard and people get something from it, I'm of the mind that those people should help keep you going. Art pulls passion from its recipients; repeat. I think a lot of people my age (29) and up agree. I'm also of the mind that people in the 22 and under age group don't tend to think this way. So now, sadly, it seems that most of my friends who are in bands, even the amazingly talented ones, have become somewhat desperate. They do anything just to have fans. They give away albums and posters and t-shirts that they paid to have made, just because that's what everyone else is doing. Right now, if you want to have fans, you have to give them shit out of your pocket. That's the attitude right now. It should be the other way around. If I love your band, I'm going to give you everything I have. So, yes, it has effected local acts. I'm happy that I'm not a local musician right now and incredibly sad for all my friends who deal with these frustrations daily. They’re heroes to me. I don’t know how they keep it up, the serious ones, that is.

TB: Does selling music digitally through an artists website offer any advantages or disadvantages to trying to personally sell CDs? Is it worth it for artists to try and get their music onto already existing distribution networks, like CD Baby?

GL: I've known a lot of people who get really excited about getting their music on CD Baby and on download sites. Then ... nothing. Most of the people I know in bands make their sales hand-to-hand. And usually for something like $5. Two-for-one. Here’s a free T-shirt and my girlfriend’s friend’s phone number. Most of my band friends have realized that the only thing you can really sell in music right now is T-shirts and camaraderie. Many of them openly tell fans that it's okay to burn their CDs from friends or the Internet at no cost. Just years ago so many of us were rallying against burning and downloading, now you never hear that shit. If you say that sort of thing on a stage or in a Internet forum, you’re the person who can’t let go of the past. I hope bands continue to keep pressing and trying to sell CDs, but won't be surprised if, in five years, very few are still doing that on the local - or even national - level. I worked in record stores for over 10 years, so admitting this hurts very much. I love records and record stores and record culture and think it's a very big part of music culture. Things just won't be the same if albums disappear. And let’s not talk about video game musicians. I’m very happy that more people know the words to “London Calling” than ever before, but very sad that A) they learned them for the wrong reason, and B) guitar sales are sure to go down while xBox sales skyrocket.

TB: According to the Times (in the UK, anyway), artists are now making more for live performances than in years prior. Have you seen any shift in local bands, either in terms of frequency of performance or of increased attendance, that might indicate a similar improvement locally?

GL: Bands are making more from performing for two reasons: 1) They have to. That's the only way many of them make any real money; and 2) They're working harder, playing more shows, playing bigger places and selling more of those T-shirts things. In general, if you want to be serious about being in a band in 2010, you'd better be SERIOUS. It's much more competitive and thankless than it used to be. Unless you sell a song to a film producer or TV producer, you're likely not going to make a whole lot any other way than playing a shit load of shows. And, no matter what they say, no musician likes to be on the road all the time. No one I know, in general, wants their job to be their absolute lifestyle.

The days of the true rich and famous rock star are, for now, over. There will be pop stars who are no different from movie stars or TV stars, but true rock stars are through for now. If you want to be successful, you have to work, work, work, work. Fight, fight, fight. You have a whole generation of people coming up who are willing to play for free and want to listen for free. Everything is different. Some good, most bad. The most universally loved form of modern art is wearing very thin T-shirts these days.