My wishlist

1. Save button/File item greyed out if no changes since last save; more visual feedback.

2. Delete Guide menu item greyed out if none exist in model. Also more visual feedback.

3. When panning and cursor reaches edge of drawing area, it should reenters the opposite side to allow continous panning without interruption. Same with zoom tool.

4. When panning, cursor should never interfer with toolbars by selecting a different tool. I sometimes find I am panning only to discover I'm suddenly using another tool because I've strayed onto a toolbar.

5. Lock toolbars to prevent inadvertant changes. This should be part of Model dialog box. I don't know why, but I find my toolbars sometimes reset for unknown reason and I have to redo them.

6. A better method of customizing toolbars. Instead of snapping where they want, they should snap where I want. Instead of groups of tools on a bar, every tool should be separate. This way, I could eliminate those tools I never use instead of being forced to have them displayed.

7. Invert selection menu item/context menu item. Sometimes it's easier to select what you don't want rather than what you need.

8. Right click context menu item to deselect everything.

9. Circular construction line tool.

10. XYZ coordinates Save button. A press of this button would record the 3D coordinates of selected Group/Component, then hide the selected entity. A press on a second button, a XYZ coordinates Restore button would present a dialog of all previous hidden Groups/Components. You would pick a name from list. Selecting the name would restore the previously hidden Group/Component back to the recorded XYZ coordinates. This would allow construction of a group, position it into model, then save its location and hide it from view, if needed.

It could be restored to view as required. This would give precise control of what items display and what items don't. I understand that there are plugins that offer relief on some of the above, but this post is about the Sketchup application, not associated Ruby scripts.

Digital Thumb

1, 2, 5. Fair enough

3. Wow! That's visual feedback.

4. Fair enough (although I don't think I've experienced this very often). What about a more intuitive way of swiching between zoom and pan, and other tools, when using them transparently, um...without having to select the tool again (and think about what button it was under again, while working with 3 drawing app., ha ha). Exit z and p with one shortcut, for instance.

6. Nice. On a Mac, the floating windows are kind of unstable, one moment they stick together, the next moment they don't. Also, dialogue boxes of one often dissapear under the other. This could be a bit more robust.

7. If you don't want to use scripts, that's up to you.

8. Yes, and a shortcut. A click would be the most obvious; let me think?

9. Other than the rotate tool? You do know this app is also about teaching you math? Just kidding. What do you mean?

10. This sound very unrelated to other tools. You can show hidden geometry with "show hidden geometry", and then

restore your visibility, but I agree that it's to longwinded. I would like to see this more intuitive too, but don't realy know how. Maybe a select hidden selection tool (transparently exchangable with the regular selection tool)? It would safe you at least two keystrokes.

Personaly I don't like dialogueboxes that pop up when you select a tool, not that you should care, but it's very un-SU like, too.

> 10.

> This sound very unrelated to other tools.

>

> You can show hidden geometry with "show hidden geometry", and then

> restore your visibility, but I agree that it's to longwinded. I would

> like to see this more intuitive too, but don't realy know how. Maybe a

> select hidden selection tool (transparently exchangable with the

> regular selection tool)? It would safe you at least two keystrokes.

>

> Personaly I don't like dialogueboxes that pop up when you select a

> tool, not that you should care, but it's very un-SU like, too.

Item 8: Right click context menu item to deselect everything. Sometimes I'm zoomed in so closely on a group that I can not deselect the group without zooming back out and clicking outside the selection box of the group. I should be able to right click on the group and an item in the context menu would say "Deselect". Then, I could keep working at the current level of zoom.

Item 9: Sometime you need construction lines that are not linear, but circular. A press on such a tool would start drawing the circular construction line at a selected point, then expand in radius to the desired size. I presently use a Ruby script that converts circle faces to a circular constr. line but the process isn't very efficient.

Item 10 would work something like this. You are working on the kitchen in a home model. You draw in a set of cabinets. They are selected and grouped. Lets pretend they get in your way when drawing other items in the kitchen, so you select the cabinet group, press the XYZ Coordinates Save button, a small box pops up where you record the name of the item being saved, ie, "kitchen cabinets". Shetchup saves the coordinates of the kitchen cabinets and the name of the group, then the kitchen cabinets disappears from view. Doing so opens up the kithen area for further development.

Later, you want the cabinets back...only the cabinets, not other groups or components that may also be hidden from view. A press of the Restore XYZ Coordinates button would pop up a drop-down box containing the names of ALL groups/components that may have previously saved and hidden from view. You choose "kitchen cabinets" from the list, Sketchup immediately restores only that group back into the model in its original location. Such a tool would allow you to selectively hide and restore items as needed to open up models amd make drawing easier.

I would also add an item 11. Instead of having the space bar choose the selection tool, I would like it to choose the next-to-last tool I used, whatever that tool may be.

For example, I draw a line with the line tool, then use the eraser tool to remove it. A press on the space bar should reselect the line tool so I could redraw the line. Should the space bar be pressed again, then the eraser tool would be reselected. In this example, the space bar would essentially be toggling between these two tools.

However, after choosing another tool, say the rectangle tool, then it would enter this scenario replacing the next-to-last tool used.

Digital thumb,

7.

There are two invert selection Rubies, as far as I know. I believe they both work as a context menu option. One is -part- of an example script provided by Google, in your Ruby folder. It's the "cleanest" script. I don't know whether this also means it works better.

10.

The show-hide tool can be improved, in more than one way. To show all hidden elements in lists could create awfully long ones, though. Is there a need to show elements that are not within the space of your drawing window, where you can select them by showing hidden geometry? All this won't be fit for showing and hiding singular or unnamed geometry, though (so that would leave you only with components, and maybe with redifined groups). Won't this interfere with the general "feel" of Sketchup a little to much?

11.

And move between zoom, pan, or orbit, and other tools transparently, or not? These could also be deselected by their own shortcut, I suppose.

10. The show/hide thing is already built-in. It's Layers http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/38572.

Draw all geometry on Layer 0. Group it or make it a component. Place the group/component on a Layer. Toggle Layer visibility on/off via Layer palette.

Set up Scenes with different combinations of Layers visible, as needed.

> Digital thumb,

>

> 7.

> There are two invert selection Rubies, as far as I know. I believe

> they both work as a context menu option. One is -part- of an example

> script provided by Google, in your Ruby folder. It's the "cleanest"

> script. I don't know whether this also means it works better.

I don't have any cleanest script in my Examples folder. What is the

second invert selection Ruby?

DT

Layers does do that but they are a concept I wish programmers would rethink for Sketchup. Why do I have to worry about what layer is active, what objects occupy what layer, what layer is visible, etc. Why not just let Sketchup keep up with that automatically. All I want to do it tell Sketchup to record the location of a selection, let me give it a name for future reference, then zap it from view. I don't care what layer it goes to and shouldn't even be concerned with thinking in "layer".

DT

DT,

If you use SU layers properly, you can control the visibility of the parts of your drawing. That is useful in a variety of circumstances. Also, you do not have to be aware of layers as you draw. Here is what to to do:

1. Always have layer 0 active. If there is a reason for another layer to ever be active, I have not found it yet.

2. Make subassemblies be groups and components. This is will prevent several side effects from getting you. You can nest groups and components. My current rule of thumb is to have no object not be a part of a group or component, even if it is the only object in a group. However, I have seen drawings by better modelers that do not follow that rule.

3. Change the layer of the highest group or component only- everything else should be on layer 0. I commonly forget to do this, hence the next rule.

4. If you use scenes to control which layers are visible and follow the above rules, you are likely to see something in the wrong scene. That is usually because you have forgotten to change the layer of a highest level group or component to a layer different from layer 0.

Those rules do not appear particularly logical as they are presented above. But following them results in drawings where you can click on a scene tab to instantly change the visibility of different parts.

The SU behavior cannot change because to do so would break the many drawings that are made according to the above rules You can change the name of every layer except layer 0. It is probably a good idea to do that to reinforce the notion that layers control the visibility of the drawing elements. I use layer names that describe the part of the drawing I want to see.

A good reason for separating parts of a drawing in this way is so you can more easily edit the drawing. If the drawing is complex, you can get rid of parts that interfere with visibility or which overlap by using layers.

Ken

DT,

I am not sure exactly what bob meant, but there is a script called 'selection.rb' in Plugins\Examples in the folder where SU is installed. The first function inverts the selection.

Ken

[edit 7/12/15, since SketchUp 2013, download SU_Examples from the Extension Warehouse to use selection.rb.]

Digital Thumb,

So that must be the script. I believe they also explain in the script how to extract only that part of it. I'm not sure. The other one you can find here:

http://www.crai.archi.fr/rld/plugin_details.php?id=367

[edit 7/12/15, this is the original selection.rb. Install SU_Examples from the Extension Warehouse.]

By the way, it isn't very practical to create a layer for each and every object you want to show or hide, so I'd study the hide function too; it could be improved. Speaking for myself I could live with the way to use layers as described above. Maybe those who find it hard to cope with this open layer structure, which Sketchup presently has, could start a campain to change this, it would be more helpful than telling people not to use an application the way it's designed.

Obviously I'm not speaking about the manuals.

Lets not polute this thread with another long discusion about layers.

Those suggestions mentioned above deserve a thread of their own.

Start a new one, and see how people respond.

My $0.02

Nice list. And we all could add to that, but there are more critical aspects in SU that need to be addressed, and to that end, the "powers that be" have started a priority suggestion thread.

1: Handy.

2: Not sure how useful this would be. I have changed my guideline color to a dark orange for better visibility in the model, and my keyboard shortcut "G" key is a global guide delete.

3: That sounds good, but could get confusing in a large model when you are just outside its space near the edges. I've seen this in some other drawing app. a long time ago.

4: That is a good idea. It has happened to me.

5: IN SPADES. Had to reset my toolbars many times. Can't figure out why it happened.

6: Yes, it could save a fair bit of screen real estate with that feature. That in conjunction with a "full screen" display toggle that most other drawing apps have (a previous thread of mine)

7: That seemed like a good idea, but then if you select a small part of a very large model, an invert will select the whole model, except for the small part. It would be unwieldy and inherently useless in large models. Your intent goes along well with my (very old) suggestion that had a lot of discussion to create a "de-group" function. That is to remove elements from within a group/comp. (in edit mode) but not delete them.

8: Yes. Many times I've had to back off to find "sky" to deselect.

9: I'm of no opinion on this, but is probably a handy but rare need tool.

10: Not sure what this would really accomplish. I use groups and layers extensively along with edit group and hide to control visibility during construction. If a group insists on being in my way, I temporarily assign it to a "temp" layer, then return it to its proper layer later. If that groups visibility remains a problem after construction, I would simply assign it to its own layer. There is also the Ruby "Layer Manager" that helps with this by creating layer lists that are easily called and reconfigured as needed. I also number my layers with a tag line to control their hierarchy (ie: 2.01 Wing 2.02 Engines 3.00 Landing Gear etc)

11: Spacebar toggle is a new one to me. I have to try it before I comment.

jgb

To all you guys who responded regarding layers. Okay, I'm beginning to think I need to look at that feature again. Perhaps that will solve the problem I have when my model gets too complex. I'm still new to Sketchup and most of my suggestions are features I found helpful in other drawing applications I've used over the years;

TurboCad, 3D Max, XaraX, and others.

DT

I've spent some time on other threads discussing layers/groups/ components and I sometimes wonder what they were thinking when they designed this. It must have been feature creep that gave us redundant means of visibility and organization.

1. Layers:

I had nightmares trying to keep up with layers until I came across the suggestion to draw only on layer0. Life seems easier now that I do, but as reported earlier, layer assignments get messy with embedded groups. They should just drop 'current layer' option. As the suggestions say: Draw on layer0, group, and reassign.

Overall, the layer/group thing should be cleaned up, although it would be tricky without breaking older files.

2. Toolbars/dialogs (There is an important distinction between the two. Toolbars hold the pushbutton selections, dialogs are the interfaces for setting properties, changing layers/components/scenes etc.) That being said,

a. I also go crazy trying to fight the things. I've noticed, with dialogs hidden (show/hide dialog option), that after a print preview, they pop up in your face again.

b. I agree heartily that there should be a better way to lock them in place. I've noticed that you can only make one 'sticky' grouping. The rest stay loose. I like to group the dialogs by associated function, and it would be nice if I could stick each group together.

Even better, it would be preferable to have a sidebar, like photoshop and others, where you can pin the dialogs in one spot and keep the modeling area clear. This is one of the biggest production busters for me, always wrestling these things around.

c. consideration for dual monitors. Depending on the configuration of your monitors, the dialogs can get stuck in the middle of the screen.

d. layers/groups and dialogs. The layer dialog and the outliner dialog are helpful for dealing with groups/layers, but the redundant functions are still difficult to manage. It would help to have either or both of these (or one merged dialog of some sort.) set into a sidebar (like the folders section of the windows explorer).

Suggestion re-previous tool keystroke. Possibly the backspace key to select-previous, keep the spacebar for return-to-select?

Don

Let me make sure I understand this. You guys draw everything on layer0. Then and only then, if the object (component, group) gets in your way visually, you beam it to another layer using the following method paraphrased from the User's Guide.

To move geometry from one layer to another:

1. Click the Select Tool. The cursor changes to an arrow.

2. Select one or more entities. The selected entities are highlighted in yellow (blue on DT's machine).

3. Right click to activate the context menu.

4. Click on Entity Info menu item to open the Entity Info dialog box.

5. Inside the dialog's drop-down list, highlight the layer number/name where you wish to send the selected entities.

6. Clicking the new layer number/name will immediately remove the entities from their current layer and locate them on the new layer.

Once they are relocated off layer0, then they are subject to being on display or hidden at will.

DT

DT,

see below...

On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 09:44:58 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>

>

>Let me make sure I understand this. You guys draw everything on

>layer0.

Right. Layer 0 is always the active layer, so I don't even think

about it.

>Then and only then, if the object (component, group) gets in

>your way visually, you beam it to another layer using the following

>method paraphrased from the User's Guide.

Not exactly. Layers in SU are apparently only useful for visibility.

But you are not required to use them.

If your drawing is complicated and it becomes hard to work in a small space, then you can define layers to make the stuff you are not interested in at the moment go away. But that is just a potential use.

I use layers in a drawing of a model railroad layout. It has several levels. I put each level into its own layer. Some of the levels are in different parts of the room, so they don't actually interfere, but it is a useful way of organizing the model.

Another use for layers is to have two versions of a drawing. Maybe you have drawn a Bascule bridge (drawbridge). You can have one layer with the bridge down and other with it up. This is not such a good example because I believe you can automate the bridge, but I do not know how to do that yet, so I would make two scenes to show the bridge down and fully raised.

>

>To move geometry from one layer to another:

>1. Click the Select Tool. The cursor changes to an arrow.

>2. Select one or more entities. The selected entities are highlighted

>in yellow (blue on DT's machine).

>3. Right click to activate the context menu.

>4. Click on Entity Info menu item to open the Entity Info dialog box.

>5. Inside the dialog's drop-down list, highlight the layer number/name

>where you wish to send the selected entities.

>6. Clicking the new layer number/name will immediately remove the

>entities from their current layer and locate them on the new layer.

>Once they are relocated off layer0, then they are subject to being on

>display or hidden at will.

I think this is right.

I create all geometry in layer 0. Only the highest level group or component gets assigned to another layer. There was a thread a month or two ago about layers and some counter-intuitive effects that can occur if you put geometry on other layers.

I agree with whoever observed that the layers in SU do not seem to be well thought out. It is confusing to look at their properties as described in the documentation. But if you following these ad hoc rules, then they work very well to control visibility.

Ken

How I regret posting this model:

layer properties

Nothing like a factual manual; I don't need this feature. Still, it won't change anything as long as SU is based on an AutoCad like layer organisation. It's not all that interesting, but it is a very dangerous feature.

Today I was working, with my mac, on a network with Windows machines and internet acces. It was clearly very upset (or Sketchup's just plainly unstable). This bothers me more than all the missing tools.

Turn Sketchup into a stable application and add a number of simple but usefull features, as mentioned above. This would be my parole.

Don't all these applications copy each other? If not, it's time they

should.

Bob,

I am curious about your experience and the recent posts that imply SU needs to connect to the Net.

Are you saying that SU was working fine on your Mac until you connected it to a network including Windows computers and which was also connected to the Net?

In principle, neither issues should have any effect on running SU.

Your computer should not care, or even be aware of, other devices on the network unless you try to do something with them. Similarly, it should not make any difference whether your computer is connected to a network that connects to the Net, or whether it is connected to a modem at home. The modem, dial-up or DSL, is just connecting to a network that is connected to the Net. The Net is just a collection of networks.

Did you load a file from another computer on the network? That could cause problems when SU tried to automatically save a backup file, if the connection is noisy or if your computer's software is not communicating efficiently with the others.

With regard to layers, I have never learned to use a CAD program designed for engineers. Prior to SU, I used a program called 3rdPlanIt (3pi for short), which is for designing model railroads. It also uses OpenGL, and therefore it fundamentally operates on a virtual world instead of simulating pencil on paper. (3pi actually does both, but it's value is in the 3D display.) 3pi layers make sense- objects really reside in them, you can make a layer visible or invisible, and you can freeze layers. All layers are logically equivalent and you can name them all whatever you want. But, in practice, I used the 3pi layers to control visibility, so once I learned how to do that in SU, I really can't complain. I froze layers in 3pi to overcome a bug, and used visibility to control editing, as in SU.

SU has many other features that I think are really clever, so I guess I cut the designers some slack for the one thing I know of that just doesn't make much sense in what seems to be its theory, but is useful in practice.

Ken

Ken,

Internet isn't a must, I choose to use it. Actually, I thought Google had the same aspirations.

I'll get back to you about networks, Macs and Windows, once I've seen into that more thoroughly - after my deadline, if I discover anything worthwhile mentioning; it was just a tought that occurder to me. Fact is, Mac users on 10.5 are advised by Goolge to disconnect from the internet when the application acts up - I use 10.4 and hoped this would safe me from all that nonsense. Today I believe I saw models desintegrate in front of my eyes. This kind of software voodoo is way beyond anything I ever encountered before. What about those issues with Graphic cards. Better to make sure to produce software that's fit for the simple man, who can't even imagine he's able to solve such problems.

Another thing that worries me is, I've seen so many applications evolve, while they never really changed caracter. What at first is percieved as being a possible limitation of current programming possibilities, persists and never gets solved. Vectorworks and AutoCad, the two most demanding pieces of software I've been using, still have the same basic shortcommings as they had about a decade ago. And I'm not talking about principal shortcommings, but small things which should be simple to solve. I crave for little improvements, instead they serve me a whole load of garbage with every upgrade, which only forces me to upgrade my system too, every other day. Tools are introduced, but never finished. Bugs persist forever.

This tells me more about software than the all "great" features they promise. Nothing like a clean and functioning application - which usually shows within the first days (if not hours) you study such an app; and I've seen a couple before: Claris Cad - Form Z, Vellum 2D, 3D in concept. All with very good tutorials, that didn't leave anything to the imagination.

Sketchup is clever, up to a certain point. At the end of the day this won't impress me though, if I don't understand the use of it - or when there's to much struggle involved. I make a living with these applications and prefer quality control.

It might sound harsh; but this is what I really mis in Sketchup. If I didn't appreciate the concept I wouldn't be spending my time around here, though.

Anyway, thanks for now, for sharing your thoughts with me.

Bob.

3. If you have the recommended scroll wheel mouse, place the tool you are using over model area you want in the center of the workspace and double-click down on the scroll wheel. Then you don't have to pan so

much.

6. Make your own toolbar http://sketchuptips.blogspot.com/2008/06/custom-toolbars-release-08-06-01.html.

But if you use shortcuts, it's mostly unnecessary. Several mice and 3d navigation devices also allow you to assign shortcuts to their buttons Navigation Devices.

But yes, for the one floating toolbar I use, it would be nice if it locked like the palettes.

7. Select+Shift+Ctrl (PC) deselects. Drag Select from right to left to select everything the selection box bounds. Then deselect.

There is a de-group feature. The Outliner allows you to rearrange nesting order. It's even possible to 'nest' Layers, so you can control the visibility of several Layers with one toggle. Some nice working tips in Working with Large Models http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnhkei2dSrY.

As with any conference session, the video can drag in some places, but it has lots of good stuff. Mitchel uses oodles of Layers and does a nice introduction to Outliner.

> 3. If you have the recommended scroll wheel mouse, place the tool you

> are using over model area you want in the center of the workspace and

> double-click down on the scroll wheel. Then you don't have to pan so

> much.

Never liked a mouse. I've used the Kensington Track ball for over a decade now. I prefer moving my fingers rather than my hand when drawing. I like to position the cursor, then remove my fingers from the ball before clicking. This prevents the last minute movement of the cursor I often get with a conventional mouse.

I also like the four buttons, one of which locks the cursor to move in 1-pixel steps for dead-accurate cursor placement. My ball is old because they last so long, but maybe the newer ones also have scrolling, don't know.

Now, number 12 on my wishlist and it may be sacrilegious.

As great as inference is, I would like the ability to turn off the snaps when I desire. During those times, I would like snaps to revert to keyboard shortcuts such as, C- center of circle, M-midpoint of entity, N-nearest entity, E-endpoint, etc.

Control of the drawing process should be totally in the hands of the operator, not dictated by software. Software should be an aid, not the administrator. No software will always know what I wish to do.

Sketchup quite often get it wrong and tries to snap to the incorrect spot. You have to stop drawing, zoom in until you can see the electrons orbiting around the atoms on your monitor, then position the start of a line where you wish. WHY CAN'T I OVERRIDE THIS FEATURE.

But, by in large, inference is very clever and a time saver.

DT

12. Not going to happen. Inference, and that snapping, is integral to this rendering engine. Believe it or not, you'll get used to it and rely on it. What you can do is adjust it's sensitivity. Go to Window > Model Info > Units. You'll probably want to make all the units smaller to increase the precision of your work.

If you haven't already save all custom setting you like - like those above mentioned units - to a Template file. Include everything you like, Styles, line weigh, Bryce or no Bryce component, location, etc to an otherwise blank file. Save it to C:\Program Files\Google\Google SketchUp 6\Resources\en-US\Templates on a PC. Go to Window > Preferences > Template and choose your new default Template to open with every new SU session.

You can get used to leaving on most snapping options, when you start to appriciate it. Turning of length snapping seems quite a random choise, though. What's integral? Meaning to say it can't be re-programmed?

What about axes-snapping competing with other snapping? Models fall appart, because lines are just off-position (0,000000...). This should NOT happen. Think about push-pull, where the "top" surfaces disappear, or lines that simply won't snap to intersections. Snap should always come first, programming wise. It's not so much of a problem in AutoCad, I believe, which -also?- has an infinite working space, unlike some of that other type of applications. It looks like it.

I see what you mean. Lets hope programmers see more posibilities.

Bob.

Items 13 and 14 added to my wish list: 13. Sketchup should be able to import GIF format graphics. They are at

least as popular as JPGs, especially for line drawings such as floor plans. I would like the ability to import them without having to convert into JPG or BMP first.

14. The Material dialog box should not activate every time I choose the Paint Bucket when the dialog box is already "rolled up". When the dialog box is rolled up, it should stay that way until I click on the title bar of the dialog box, then it should drop down to full length. I need the full Material dialog box to show only when a different material needs to be selected.