The Roman occupation of Britain (75 B.C.E – 410 C.E.) never extended into Ireland, but trade developed with early pagan Roman Britain, particularly in supply of Irish farm produce and cattle. The decline in Roman military and civic control of Britain towards the end of the 5th C. led to increased Irish slave raiding and even establishment of Irish settlements in Britain. By the 7th C. Ireland had become a centre of the European cultural and Christian religious world because it had not been as adversely affected by the disruption caused by the disintegration of the Roman Empire in Europe.8a Consequently, monastic Ireland attracted scholars, clergy and others from Britain and continental Europe, and trade thrived. The maritime expansion of Scandinavian populations during the Viking Age (about 750–1100 C.E.) resulted in establishment of Viking settlements at Dublin (Dubhlinn), Wexford, Waterford, Cork and Limerick and included Danish Vikings from England. In the 10th C. Dublin became one of the most important towns in the Norse world as a trading and slaving centre. By the 10th C. a whole new hybrid Irish/Scandinavian (Hiberno-Norse) culture was emerging in Dublin and in 952 CE. Dublin split from the Danelaw and Norse influence from England, and from then on had its own dynasty of Viking Kings. By the end of the 11th C. these Vikings had been there for over a century and a half. They had inter-married with Gaelic Irish women, become Christian and formed local political alliances. In 1014 , Brian Boru, Irish King of Leinster, set out to take control Dublin and defeated the Hiberno-Irish at the battle of Clontarf. The armies of both sides had recruited Viking mercenaries from Britain and elsewhere. Despite Brian Boru’s victory, Ireland remained unstable and in the middle of 12th C. Dermott MacMurrough (a descendant of Brian Boru) High King of Ireland and also King of Leinster, fled Ireland for England and France where he made an alliance with the Anglo-Norman King, Henry II (g. grandson of William the Conqueror). He obtained an army from Henry in exchange for land in Ireland. The army was led by Richard de Clare, an Anglo-Norman baron known as “Strongbow”, who attacked and took the city of Waterford. This marked the beginning of control of Ireland by Anglo-Norman barons. In 1171 Henry II himself landed in Ireland and made an alliance with the Irish Kings (the Charter of Waterford). Over the next 50 years Anglo-Normans established power bases and built fortifications in the main population centres and Ireland became dominated by England, which imposed its language, parliamentary, legal and land tenure systems which persist to this day.
In conclusion, on the basis of present evidence our Norse ancestor could have moved from England to Ireland at any time between the 7th C. to the 12th C. possibly as a soldier/mercenary, trader or (towards the end) an employee (lessee farmer) of an Anglo-Norman land-owning baron. Hopefully Big-Y testing will lead to discovery of intermediate subclades off our currently unbranched ~950 year I-BY184065 lineage (~700 C.E. - 1650 C.E.) that will help resolve this puzzle.
For a really excellent history of Ireland, which places the above account of our Irish Berry Family in context, I strongly recommend the BBC 2x DVD set "The Story of Ireland" presented by Fergal Keane. It is available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-EsP3V1tp8 .
I also recommend viewing "The Viking Invasions of Ireland 795-1014: the Complete History" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLV_wxs7ut4 .
By about 1670 our family had certainly adopted Berry/Bury as a surname (the spelling apparently having been interchangeable at the time). However, early Medieval Ireland was one of the first cultures to adopt patrilineal surnames as early as the 10th C 8 . This means that if our ancestor was of Norman (European Viking) descent and arrived in Ireland in the early 12 Century, he may have already have used the name Berry because the County of Berry in France was in existence then (https://www.worldstatesmen.org/France_prov.html#Berry . He would also have been a Catholic. Alternatively, if he was not a European Viking and a pagan, our Hiberno-Norse ancestor may have adopted the Gaelic name of his wife’s family, because many of these early Viking traders/settlers in Ireland, being men, married Gaelic, Roman Catholic women. Over generations Norse paganism was abandoned and integrated Catholic, Hiberno-Norse communities were formed and eventually assimilated into the Irish population. 7. 8. If this was the case, “O’Beara” may have been the original version of our Berry/Bury surname2. (see https://www.libraryireland.com/names/ob/o-beara.php ). Another possibility is the place name "Carbury", also formerly spelt "Carbery" according to Wikipedia and is a rural community and a village in north-west County Kildare where Thomas Berry of Castlecuffe's family is known to have lived in the 17th C and probably earlier. The name may also have been adopted for apparently obscure reasons - see the case of Gilbery O’Coyng who became John Berry (see the first paragraph at the top of this page).
Irrespective of details of his undoubted Norse origin, some time in the 17th Century, one of our ancestors (probably a man with the Berry/Bury surname living in Co.Kildare) must have converted to Protestantism from Roman Catholicism, probably in order to avoid one of a succession of English Parliamentary enactments that penalized Catholics. These culminated in the Cromwellian 1652 Act of Settlement which confiscated existing lands held by Catholics and excluded Catholics from land ownership or official office. (By the end of the 1650's only 16% of Ireland was in Catholic ownership). Apparently it was through this expedient conversion that our family gained acceptance into the Protestant Ascendancy Class.
In conclusion, we are unlikely ever to find the primary documentary evidence that conclusively proves where my 6x g. grandfather Thomas Berry (c.1670-c.1730) was born, or that he was the son of Thomas Berry of Castlecuffe. However, the documentary and circumstantial evidence for a familial connection with the Malone and L'Estrange families is strong. Similarly, when exactly some or all of the family converted from Catholicism to Protestantism remains uncertain, although in the mid-1640 Cromwellian era there would certainly have been very strong incentive to do so. I believe that the genetic evidence for a presence of our Berry forebears in Ireland going back at least to the period of Viking settlement, together with the documentary evidence stemming from the will of Thomas Berry of Castlecuffe, provides a credible hypothesis for the deep origin of our family in Ireland. It seems likely to be closer to the truth than the discredited family legend invoking an origin in Wales and Devon, or an Ulster-Scots origin for which there is no documentary or genetic evidence.
The FTDNA Berry Family DNA Project
Y-DNA testing has advanced significantly since inception of the original Berry Family DNA Project in 2003, hosted on the now defunct 'rootsweb' site. Unfortunately, most of the I-M253 members of the original Family Tree DNA Berry Project have not kept up with these advances, both in terms of numbers of STR markers tested and the more recently available SNP (Single Nucleotide Polymorphism) testing. Some participants whose STR results were posted on the ‘rootsweb’ site have not joined the current FTDNA Project (some have died) so their results are no longer readily available for comparison. Of those members of our Berry family who have joined, as of May 2025, 11 have tested for 37 markers, 7 for 67markers, 2 for 111 markers (see STR Genetic Distance Tables 2, 2a and dendrograms in Charts 4, 4a and 4b below) and 20 have done the Big-Y-700 Test (see (https://blog.familytreedna.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/big-y-700-white-paper_compressed.pdf ). The Big-Y testing has resulted in establishment of terminal SNP I-BY184065 as the "signature" haplogroup of our Irish Berry family. Chart 3 summarizes lineages based on the documented and genetic genealogy of the twenty-two men who have tested at 111 markers or more and/or done a Big-Y test, together with their current terminal SNPs.
Unless there are very unusual circumstances (becoming more remote all the time) a Big-Y test (currently 700 markers) is the best Y-DNA test on offer. The reason for this is that Big-Y (unlike other Y-DNA tests) is exploratory and "searches" your sample for all STR markers and SNP mutations - both those known to science and those currently unknown. This means that when your sample is analyzed you will end up with a list of previously unknown and unnamed SNPs (termed "Private Variants" by FTDNA) - how many will depend on how rare they are and how well your particular line has been tested. It is these SNPs that are the key to unlocking both downstream and upstream lineages within our Berry family tree because, unlike STR markers which can mutate back and forth, SNPs generally remain unchanged. SNP testing is progressing so rapidly that SNP mutations occurring in the recent, documented genealogical time frame are now being placed onto the human Y-DNA haplotree . Our I-BY184065 Berry family requires further SNP testing if we are all to benefit from the advances being made using this technology and to better understand our recent genetic history. Typically, FTDNA needs to identify at least two matching private variant SNPs to be able define a new sub-branch of the human Haplo-Tree (HT) (Charts 1, 1a). Recent Big-Y results of Brett Berry, Donald Berry, Cameron Berry, Timothy Berry, Jeffrey Mabe, Brian Berry and Paddy Berry have done just this, and resulted in identification of six new sub-clades - I-FT126869, I-FGC50473, I-FT77085, I-FT75939, I-FTA15544 and FTA17005 under I-BY184065 (see Chart 2 & Table 1 below). In addition, a tester in September 2024 (surname Rogers) matched SNP I-FT91417 in our I-BY184065 block of named SNPs resulting in it being assigned as a new parent haplogroup for I-BY184065 and bringing forward the estimated date that I-BY184065 formed by ~450 years. Chart 2 shows the placements of the current 20 Big-Y testers on the latest Block Tree version. At the top of the screenshot is a large block below I-FT91417, now containing 18 SNPs with names like BY184084, FT58966 etc. (The SNPs beginning with the letters BY were discovered with earlier Big Y tests, and the ones beginning with the letters FT were discovered with the more recent Big Y-700 test). They are grouped together because the order in which these occurred is not yet known. When a new Big-Y tester has some of these SNPs, but not others, the ones that are shared by the new tester will then be known to have occurred in earlier generations than the SNPs that are not shared. As more people test, it is possible for many of these SNPs to be placed in generational order on the tree and it will break up into sub-clades. Currently our I-BY184065 block of 18 named SNPS represents a time span of approximately 1500 years (using 1 SNP = 83 years on average) and we need other new testers (not necessarily with the Berry surname) to match one or more of these SNPs to further break up this block. As more I-M253 Berry Project participants do Big-Y tests our "Private Variant" SNPs will become better defined, hopefully to the point of identifying other sub-clades and, in particular, ones that that bridge the gap to the documented genealogical time period.
Big-Y and the "Pennsylvanian John" and "Tennessee William" Puzzles
The Big-Y test of Brett Berry resulted in identification of a new sub-clade (I-FT126869) in which he, Charles Milton Berry and most recently Brian Berry, have been placed under I-BY184065 (see Chart 3). Conventional genealogy shows that Brett, Charles and Brian were descended from a John Berry, born c. 1748, who arrived in Pennsylvania from England one year prior to the Revolutionary War, served throughout its duration, married Elizabeth Merritt of New Jersey and died in 1830, leaving a will i.e. he was not the "founder'"John Berry (c.1695-1770/71). I shall call him "Pennsylvanian John". The sharing of a private variant SNP by Brett, Charles, and Brian that is not shared by the other Big-Y testers, is interpreted to show that this mutation appeared at earliest in Pennsylvanian John or (given his dates) possibly his father or grandfather.
Three other subclades of I-BY184065 have also been identified, namely I-FGC50473, I-FT77085 and I-FTA15544. The latter, was split (in August 2024) into subclade I-FTA17005 to which John Edward Berry and Jeffrey Mabe belong. Timothy Berry remains in I-FTA15544 which represents a line that appears to have separated earlier than all the others based on both STR and SNP results (see Charts 3, 4a, 4b, 5 and 6). Their e.k.a. named William Berry (c.1738 -1823) who married Sueanne ? Lane lived in Lee Valley, Hawkins Co. Tennessee. This William Berry, who I shall identify as "Tennessee William", is clearly important in understanding the origins of our I-BY184065 family. He was thought by Jackson et al 1 to be one of the three orphans of James Berry ( c.1716 - 1749), but cannot be, based on current DNA evidence. His birth date is frequently cited as c.1758 in most of the online literature, but this appears to be an error. It first appeared in the defunct rootsweb Berry DNA Project in 2005, but unfortunately has now become established in the online literature. I believe that it originated as a lapsus calami by Carol Vass in an email to Jim Berry in October 2005 and should have read 1738. March 1758 was the date of the guardianship record of the James Berry orphans (see https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~berry/genealogy/newupload/pages/B1a.htm ). It should now be recognized that William the orphan and "Tennessee William" were different people. Jackson et al1 were aware of the close genetic relationship between the Hawkins Co. and the Augusta/Washington Berry families on the basis of low level STR marker testing, but were frustrated that they were unable to find "....a single shred of primary or secondary source documentation to connect the Hawkins BERRYs to the Augusta BERRYs". Carol Vass in her notes on William Berry (d.1823 and who she thought was one of the orphans) also queried whether the slight differences between the STR DNA of the Lee Valley Berry family descendants compared to Bulls Gap family descendants might indicate that "...Wm. Berry (d. 1823) was related to the Aug/Wash BERRYs, but was a later immigrant to America." The distinction between the two William Berrys also seems to be supported by the fact that Thomas Berry, a son of "Tennessee William" of Lee Valley was a Baptist and his son - Jesse was a Baptist minister, whereas the Berry family of Bulls Gap, Hawkins Co. and the Augusta/Washington Co. descendants of "founder" John appear to have been Presbyterians. The Big-Y results of three descendants of "Tennessee William" are evidence that this is in fact the case. "Tennessee William's" I-FTA15544 lineage and its subclade I-FTA17005 must descend from our most recent I-BY184065 common ancestor (c. 1600, see Chart 3), because if this lineage had split off above it, all the other Big-Y results below I-BY184065 would have I-FTA15544 and it’s not there. i.e. I-FTA15544 is a separate subclade of I-BY184065.
Lee Valley and Bulls Gap are only about 12 miles apart as the crow flies. The genetic evidence indicates that Carol Vass was correct and Tennessee William’s Irish ancestor probably migrated to America later than the Bulls Gap family, but settled close to his Berry relatives.
Thus all the American I-BY184065 haplogroup Berrys are descended either from “founders” James and John Berry who migrated well before the Revolutionary War, or from a William Berry ("Tennessee William") whose I-FTA15544 lineage and its subclade I-FTA17005 must descend from our most recent I-BY184065 common ancestor (c. 1600, see Chart 3). "Pennsylvanian John" who, according to a secondary documentary source, arrived in 1775 from "England" may be a descendant of George Berry (?-1803/04), the second son of American "founder " James (see Chart 3). However, as no descendants of George have done a Big-Y test, this has yet to be confirmed.
Descendants of my ancestor, "founder" Thomas Berry, who remained in Ireland only migrated to Canada and the USA in the late 19th C. or early 20th C.
When considering the origins of our I-BY184065 haplogroup Berry family it is important to remember the realities of inheritance and DNA testing. As far as is known, the Y-DNA STR markers and SNPs used for genealogical testing don’t code for anything functional. They’re just passive labels on the Y chromosome (which only determines sex) and get passed down the paternal lineage only. All of the coding DNA that accounts for everything else about us resides on the autosomal chromosomes, of which there are 22. Those of us who have done autosomal testing (e.g. Ancestry etc.) should remember that from each of our parents we got approximately half of our DNA, from each grandparent, a quarter, each g. grandparent an eighth and so on. At 7 generations that’s less than 1%, and at 10 generations it’s under 0.1% — zero, for all practical purposes. We will therefore have no DNA at all from our Irish Norse founder ancestor, other than the passive Y-DNA labels. If our autosomal tests show Scandinavian ancestry (mine show 3-4%) it will have been inherited from a fairly recent, probably 4x - 6x g. grandparent.
I look on the Big-Y test as an investment and a legacy for future generations, because the information about our lineage continues to accumulate over time as more men test (they may not necessarily even have the Berry surname) and new matches are found. In June 2025 FTDNA announced that its Y-DNA haplotree of Humankind, which is the world's largest, has 91,277 branches and 761,091 variants. So come on guys, I know that it’s expensive, but wait for a FTDNA sale or, at the very least, please consider upgrading your STR markers to 111. Alternatively, I recently (2025) discovered that it is possible to determine what your terminal haplogroup is using the latest SNP technology, but without the cost of doing a FTDNA YDNA test at all, or an upgrade to a Big-Y test. This is by testing for our Berry "signature" SNP I-BY184065 and one or all of its currently known four downstream SNPs (I-FT126869, I-FGC50473, I-FT75939, I-FTA15544). FTDNA discontinued doing single SNP testing several years ago, but there is a company based in Germany (Berlin) called YSEQ that does it ("Wish a SNP”). See http://www.yseq.net/ . The cost per test is $19, plus $1 per SNP, plus sample kit $3, plus postage ~$6; so about $30. The only downside to this alternative that I can see is that a “Wish a SNP” test only shows if you are positive or negative for a specified SNP. Also, if you want to get access to the full set of tools that come with a Big-Y, you will still need to do a Big-Y test. In addition, your YSEQ determined terminal SNP will not be shown in the FTDNA Berry Project results. If you are interested in doing a YSEQ test, please email me.
Here is FTDNA's current (May 2025) Haplogroup Report for I-BY184065 which is the"signature" haplogroup for our Berry family:- "I-BY184065's paternal line was formed when it branched off from the ancestor I-FT91417 and the rest of mankind around 700 CE. This date is an estimate based on genetic information only. With a 95% probability, the ancestor I-FT91417 was born between the years 372 CE and 991 CE. The most likely estimate is 714 CE, rounded to700 CE. This estimate will likely change in the future as more people test and we improve the method.
The man who is the most recent common ancestor of this line is estimated to have been born around 1650 CE. This date is an estimate based on genetic information only. With a 95% probability, the most recent common ancestor of all members of haplogroup I-BY184065 was born between the years 1551 and 1758 CE. The most likely estimate is 1667 CE, rounded to 1650 CE. He is the ancestor of at least 12 descendant lineages known as I-FT126869, I-FGC50473, I-FTA15544, I-FT77085 and 8 yet unnamed lineages. This estimate will likely change in the future as more people test and we improve the method.
There are 20 DNA tested descendants, and they specified that their earliest known origins are from: Ireland, England and United States. 5 from unknown countries."
I recommend that readers take a look at FTDNA's new interactive tools - Time Tree in "Discover" (https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-BY184065/tree ) see Chart 5a, Match Time Tree and "Group Time Tree" ( https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/I-FT75939/matches) and ( https://discover.familytreedna.com/groups/berry/tree?subgroups=200683,249535,274251,284643,301746,307291 ) on your Berry Group Project page. I would encourage you to follow FTDNA's last paragraph: "You can help improve the estimates by specifying birth years on your Big Y kits, documenting your patrilineal genealogy in your Family Tree with accurate names and birth years, and linking Y-DNA matches with whom you share a known most recent common ancestor."
I also recommend that readers try Robin Spencer's interactive SNP tracker which gives a simplified pathway and a timeline for these Berry SNPs http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html ). Enter I-BY184065 first and try using some of the map options (three horizontal bars on the top right) as well as child SNPs of I-BY184065 .
For some of us it’s been a long time since we did our original DNA tests. Here are some things I suggest you consider doing in order to keep your DNA sample, your FTDNA account and your results current and available for future generations:-
Join the current FTDNA Berry Project if you have not already done so. This allows the Project Administrators to access your 'rootsweb' results and transfer them to the current Project. The original website hosted by ‘rootsweb’ is defunct, although currently still accessible. https://www.familytreedna.com/my/group-join
Make sure that the email and postal addresses on your FTDNA account are your current ones. https://www.familytreedna.com/my/account-information
Please update the place of origin of your eka. I suggest that "Ireland" is the most appropriate for the descendants of "founders" Thomas Berry (b. c. 1670), James Berry (b. c. 1680) and John Berry (b. c. 1685).
Consider nominating a Beneficiary to manage your account, including your kit and any remaining DNA sample, after you pass away. This can be done from "Account Settings" on the FTDNA Homepage. https://www.familytreedna.com/my/account-information
If your sample is older than 10 years, order a new kit from FTDNA (it's free) and submit it to them for storage. This is important if your sample is needed for a Big-Y test in the future.
Please consider upgrading your test for the reasons explained above.
References
1Jackson J., Vass C., Laughlin M. and Fischer D. 2002. Genealogy of the Berry and Associated Families. Unpublished Report pp 1 - 345. See the following link:-
# http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~berry/genealogy/newupload/pages/report.htm
2 Pritchard John, 1999. The Presbyterian Church in Devon. https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/ChurchHistory/Presbyterians
3 History of Clinton County Indiana. Chicago Inter-State Publishing Co. 1886. page 633.
4 https://www.ancestryireland.com/scotsinulster/index.phb
5 Seamus Pender (ed.) 1939. A Census of Ireland, circa 1659 with Supplementary Material from the Poll Money Ordinances (1660-1661).
htthttp://downsurvey.tchpc.tcd.ie/history.htmlps://www.irishmanuscripts.ie/digital/censusofireland1659/Census%20Of%20Ireland%201659.pdf
6 The Down Survey: http://downsurvey.tchpc.tcd.ie/history.html
7 https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/pre_norman_history/vikings.html
8. McEvoy B. and Bradley D.G. 2006. Y-chromosomes and the extent of patrilineal ancestry in Irish surnames. Hum Genet 119: 212-219.
8a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-EsP3V1tp8 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znv4rNEVFpw
8b https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLV_wxs7ut4
8c. Margaryan, A., Lawson, D.J., Sikora, M et. al. Population genomics of the Viking world. Nature 585, 390-396 (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-020-2688-
8d. Schiffels, S. Iron Age and Anglo-Saxon genomes from East England reveal British migratory history. Nat commun 7 10408 (2016) https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10408
8e. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/archaeologists-uncover-real-story-england-became-england-180984911/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-us
8f. https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/reich.hms.harvard.edu/files/inline-files/s41586-022-05247-2%20%281%29.pdf
9.(https://search.findmypast.ie/record?id=IRE%2FDIOC%2F007246545%2F00341&parentid=IRE%2FDIOC%2FWILL%2F00182344 )
9a. Burke, Sir Bernard, 1912. Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Ireland: 400.
9b. Burke, Sir Bernard, 1912. Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Ireland: 453-454.
10. "Ireland, Landed Estate Court Files, 1850-1885", FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCFN-XYW : Wed Aug 21 17:21:37 UTC 2024), Entry for Francis Berry, 1714.
11. Speidel, L., Silva, M., Booth, T. et al. High-resolution genomic history of early medieval Europe. Nature 637, 118–126 (2025). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-08275-2
Link to results for the current Berry Family DNA Project
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/berry?iframe=ydna-results-overview
Link to the old USA I-M253 (Augusta/ Washington Co.) Berry family project
* http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~langolier/genealogy/BerryDNA/family_dna_results.html