Home

List of Names 

Contact me (padfleetberry@gmail.com)


 Before Ireland, the DNA Evidence and the Connection with the I-BY184065 Haplogroup ("Augusta/Washington Co.") Berry Family in the USA

with

 a Tribute to Carol Vass

(Last changed on 18 June 2025)

Dr. Lorton Wilson investigated the origins of the name Berry in Ireland, and the following references are of interest. The earliest record of the name that he was able trace was in 1406, when Henry IV in Letters Patent granted to John Berry (aka Gilbery O’Coyng) that he and all his issue might enjoy the Laws of England.  (See https://virtualtreasury.ie/item/CIRCLE-7-8-1-85).

 In the Close Rolls he found an instrument of 29 Oct. 1422 by which Richard Nugent, Baron Delvin, the son of John Tuite, William Nugent and John Nugent, Chaplain, became sureties under the penalty of £100 that John Berry should not do any bodily injury to Robert Westeill.

 On 26 Nov. 1473, William Berry proved in the Diocese of Dublin the will of Thomasine, his wife.

 Letters Patent of 10 May 1476 show that the King, Edward IV, with the consent of William, Bishop of Meath, Deputy to George Duke of Clarence, Lieutenant of Ireland, granted to the said Bishop, to Sir Roland FitzEustace, Chancellor of Ireland, Christopher Nugent, Baron Delvin, Philip Birmingham … Walter Piers … William Berry and others that they might found a certain brotherhood or gild of the glovers’ art in the city of Dublin, to be called the Brotherhood Gild of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Lorton Wilson concluded that no one with the name Berry received a grant of Crown Lands, nor does the name appear in grants under the Acts of Settlement, Certificates of the Court of Claims, Certificates for Adventurers, Soldiers etc., adjudications in favour of Officers of 1649, Certificates of Converts nor the Convert Rolls.

The first Berry of my "Eglish family" line for whom there is unequivocal documentary evidence is Thomas Berry who is first recorded in Knockerville Townland, Westmeath in the Parish of Killucan, Ireland. His origin was unknown until recently and his d.o.b. is estimated to have been c.1675, based on the date of birth of his first son, John in c. 1702. (I now favour a slightly earlier estimate of c.1670 for reasons explained below). Thomas was still alive in 1730, but no record of him has been found after that. 

Family legend asserts descent from the famous Berry family of Berrynarbor, Devon (see https://sites.google.com/site/irishberrygenealogy/devon-berry-tree) and the arms of two members of my Irish Berry family have incorporated the ‘or three bars gu’, of that family  https://sites.google.com/site/irishberrygenealogy/berry-arms . However, this supposed Devon descent is not supported by my attempts to trace living male Berrys with a documented link to the Devon Berry family in order to compare their Y-chromosome DNA with mine. Bearing in mind that the Berrynarbor family apparently went extinct in the male line with the death of Thomas Berry in 1708, I have had to rely on what appear to be cadet branches of the early Berrynarbor family. The first person that I was able to trace, with the assistance of Leonard Smith of Porthcawl, lived at Swimbridge, Devon and  Donald Berry, with a pedigree in the Swimbridge family that can be traced to at least c. 1560, has tested with the Berry Family DNA Project (kit #106697). However, instead of matching my I1 (I-M253) haplotype, Donald’s haplotype is R1b1b2 (R-M269). In 2013 I discovered another Berry family with an eight generation history in Holcombe Regis, Devon which also claims descent from the original Berrynarbor family via the Chittlehampton branch. David John Berry of this line has now joined the Berry Family DNA Project ( kit #251688), but his haplotype is I2b1 (I-M223), which matches no others tested in the Berry DNA Project thus far. In 2019 I was contacted by Ronald G. Berry who's haplogroup is I-FTB80197 and has a family tree that is linked to the early Devon Berry family, but no recent history in Devon.  His and my STR and SNP  results show  that our families are unrelated.  Similarly, John Berry (kit #203553) who lives in the UK and has a Scottish ancestry, is also unrelated to me, despite being haplogroup I-M253.  At this stage there are at least two genetically unrelated Berry families with a long, well-documented, history in Devon, as well as other families, including mine, Ronald's, a family from Gartross, N. Ireland and two other FTDNA Berry Project participants (kit #251688 and #IN47769) who claim descent from the ancient Berry family from Berrynarbor, Devon. The Gartross family descendant (kit#572288) is haplogroup E-M35. Which, if any, of these families are actually descended from it remains unresolved, but it seems most likely that the arrival in England of the progenitor of the famous  Berry family (originally de Berry in the 12th C.) was associated with the Norman conquest of 1066 as in 1886 the Domesday Book records two men named Berry as having been granted land in Devon. I am now convinced that the legend of descent of my  family from the famous Berry family of Devon is a fiction that originated when James Middleton Berry applied for a confirmation of Arms in 1848. 

 Most American researchers have concluded that our Berry family has  Scots-Irish origins in view of the extensive migration of lowland Scots to Ireland in the 17thC.  There is indisputable genetic evidence (Y-DNA) of a close relationship of my Irish “Eglish Berry” family with the “Augusta/Washington Co.” Berry family  of the USA, for which there is good documentary evidence that some early members were Presbyterians.  However, to my knowledge, no primary documentary evidence has ever been found (despite efforts of many competent investigators such as Carol Vass) that proves that the “Founder” American ancestors, James and John Berry, or my Irish ancestor, Thomas Berry, were of Scots-Irish decent. The surname Berry does not appear on the lists of Scottish surnames contained on Muster Rolls and Estate Maps of the eight Plantation Counties of Ulster for the period 1607 - 1633, which was the initial phase of the plantation scheme . (However, the name is recorded in the late 18th Century)4. 

According to Pritchard 2 (1999) "Presbyterianism was not restricted to Scotland. Nationally, Presbyterians were the strongest non-conformist group in England in the early 18th C, with 637 congregations and some 180,000 members (3.3% of the population). Protestant non-conformist views were particularly strong in Devon where the first Presbyterian congregations date from 1662. Plymouth was also an important staging-point for non-conformists emigrating to the American colonies, who joined local congregations whilst waiting for a ship". The possibility therefore cannot be discounted that, on arrival in America from Ireland, along with thousands of Scots-Irish Presbyterians, James and John Berry may just have joined the most acceptable Protestant church available in the predominantly Scots-Irish settler community in which they found themselves. My Thomas Berry ancestor, who remained in Ireland, was certainly a member of the Church of Ireland and a parishioner and Church Warden at the Killucan Church, Westmeath. If the James Berry who was recorded as  a communicant in the Vestry Minutes of this Killucan Church in 1703 was indeed Thomas' cousin (see below) and one of the two "founders' of the American branch of the family, he too was apparently originally Church of Ireland. 

This does not preclude more recent generations of our American Berry family from having a Scottish heritage; autosomal DNA testing shows that many do, but it would be through relatively recent marriages.  While the early generations of American Berry men tended to marry within the largely Scots/Irish settler community in which they lived; e.g marriages to Hall, MaGill, Buchanan 1 ,, this would be at the limit of detection by autosomal testing.


The Link Between the “Eglish Berry” family Line and the I-BY184065 (I-M253) Haplogroup ( “Augusta/Washington Co.”)  Berry Family of the USA

The earliest known ancestors of the haplogroup I-BY184065 (Augusta/Washington Co.) Berry family in America are a James Berry, thought by American researchers1 to have been born in Ireland, (c.1690 – aft. May 1756), and a John Berry, also probably born in Ireland, (c.1695 – 1770/71). Y-DNA STR results  show that James Berry had a close family relationship with John Berry. (A detailed analysis of the relationship and dates of James and John Berry is given  by Jackson et al.1 ).  Descendants of these two American "founders" show a typical “starburst” of dramatic expansion and can be found in Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Texas, Oregon, Arkansas, Louisiana, Indiana, Iowa and Illinois. Several 8th generation descendants of the Irish branch of the family (including myself), and descendants of both James and John, have a genetic distance (GD) = 2,  tested on 111 STR markers, a remarkable degree of matching all things considered, and indisputable evidence of a relatively recent common ancestor. (See Tables 2 and 2a at the bottom of the page for a summary of STR genetic distances and time to most recent ancestor. ) This genetic relationship has  been confirmed and enhanced by SNP testing. Based on 20 Big-Y  tests, I- BY184065 has now been established as the "signature" SNP of our Irish Berry family. According to FTDNA's current (May 2025) Haplogroup Report, "The most recent common ancestor of all members of haplogroup I-BY184065 was born between the years 1551 and 1758 CE. With a 95% probability, the most likely estimate is 1667 CE, rounded to 1650 CE. He is the ancestor of at least 12 descendant lineages known as I-FT126869, I-FGC50473, I-FTA15544, I-FT77085 and 8 yet unnamed lineages"

 The ‘window’ in time for the most recent common ancestor to have lived is fairly narrow and I think that the following are the two most plausible hypotheses for the relationship between "founders" Thomas, James and John Berry:- The first, and in my opinion the least plausible because there is no conclusive documentary evidence to support it, is that the American James Berry  (c. 1690 Ireland – c. 1756 Virginia, USA) and John Berry (c. 1695 Ireland – 1770/71  Augusta Co. USA) were brothers of my “Eglish” family  Thomas.  (See diagram below). If so, Thomas would be the oldest brother which would fit with his ability to buy land at Knockerville Townland in Co. Westmeath – he obviously had some financial means. His younger brothers may well have gone to America to seek their fortunes. The sudden appearance in the documentary record of my Thomas Berry in Westmeath and his acquisition of land there suggests that he was a newcomer to the district. Until recently I had been unable to trace any records for Thomas or his wife Elizabeth (Dames) in Ireland prior to 1703. The only documentary evidence I am aware of for a possible familial connection is between Thomas and James Berry. There  are two records of a James Berry as a communicant in May and August of 1703 at the Killucan Church, where Thomas was a parishioner and Church Warden between 1707-1710.  In a third (undated, but of the same period) record in the Killucan Vestry minutes James Berry is also recorded as a donor in a collection for the Episcopal Clergy of Scotland. Perhaps James was visiting Thomas. The other Berry family that were parishioners of the Killucan Church (Berry of Wardenstown) had no member called James. Counting against the brother hypothesis is the approximate 15/20 year time span between the estimated birth dates of Thomas and the American migrants.