Meeting with Edwin Rutsch and Marta Burnet
Director, Advancing Empathy Initiative, I am the director of advancing empathy at Woodland Park Zoo and oversee the network of zoos and aquariums who work to foster empathy for wildlife. We have developed many trainings and are currently working on developing curriculum from our 200+ resources. I was curious to learn about your project and see if there are overlaps or places we could collaborate. I attended some empathy circles a few years ago and have been following your work. Happy to talk more about this in a zoom call if you’d like
Meeting summary
Edwin and Marta discussed their respective empathy-focused initiatives, with Marta sharing details about the ACE for Wildlife Network, a community of practice started in 2019 that has grown to over 1,200 participants nationwide and globally, focusing on fostering emotional connections between humans and animals to drive conservation action. Edwin explained his work on empathy circles, a mutual active listening practice based on Carl Rogers' active listening process, which he has been developing for about 16 years through hundreds of interviews with empathy experts and various applications including political conflict mediation. They explored potential collaboration opportunities, including Marta presenting about their curriculum development work at upcoming empathy summits and possibly incorporating empathy circles into their February in-person event or two-day summit. The conversation also covered their different approaches to empathy - Marta's focus on affective, cognitive, imaginative, and motivational empathy in wildlife contexts, while Edwin emphasized the mutual nature of empathy and the practice of imaginative empathy through role-taking.
Marta presented the ACE for Wildlife Network, which began in 2019 as a grant program focused on a seven-state region along the northern border to help accredited zoos and aquariums foster emotional connections between humans and animals for conservation purposes. The network has since expanded nationwide and globally, with over 1,200 participants across every continent except Antarctica. Through a granting program, they have funded 32 zoos and aquariums to implement 90 projects, including updating signage, creating summer camps, and working with community partners, to transform how these institutions interact with their guests.
Marta and Edwin discussed their work with empathy circles and curriculum development. Marta explained that she had previously worked with Jim at the Seattle Aquarium and recently received a grant to develop learning pathways and organize their 350 resources into a structured curriculum. Edwin shared his 16-year experience working on empathy topics, including conducting hundreds of interviews with empathy experts and developing empathy circle practices based on Carl Rogers' work on active listening.
Edwin discussed developing an open-source empathy curriculum to build a movement, with plans for publicly accessible training materials and a train-the-trainer model. Marta shared that her network currently offers free access to most resources with only a brief application process, though they may need to implement fee-based components in the future for sustainability. Both agreed on the importance of making core materials freely available while allowing for paid training opportunities at higher levels.
Edwin discussed upcoming empathy summits, including one on June 6th about empathy circles that Marta cannot attend due to her daughter's high school graduation. The next three summits will be held on October 3rd, January 9th, and April 3rd, with opportunities for trainers to present their curricula. Edwin explained that the typical attendees include academics, business professionals, educators, and activists interested in bringing empathy practices into various sectors.
Edwin and Marta discussed different aspects of empathy, including human-to-human empathy, wildlife connection, and nature empathy. Edwin explained his concept of holistic empathy, which includes sensing into someone's experience, imaginative empathy (putting oneself in the role of an animal or tree), self-empathy, and mutual empathy in relationships. Marta mentioned their focus on affective, cognitive, and motivational empathy in their work.
Marta discussed three key areas of work involving animal empathy, including mutual empathy with animals, empathic joy, and exploring how animal empathy relates to empathy between people. She explained how shared experiences with animals might help bridge connections between people from different backgrounds or groups, using examples like programs where attendees from different political perspectives could find common ground through shared awe and wonder. Marta expressed interest in exploring empathy circles as a potential tool to help people connect over shared animal experiences.
Marta discussed exploring empathy circles as a potential experience for their network, particularly for community engagement projects involving marginalized communities. Edwin explained how empathy circles could be useful for relationship building and conflict mediation, sharing examples of using animal roles to practice imaginative empathy. He noted that facilitators trained in the method are needed to guide new participants through the process, though people can eventually become self-facilitators after 2-3 experiences.
Edwin and Marta discussed Marta's upcoming curriculum development project and potential collaboration with Edwin's empathy circle initiative. Marta agreed to participate in an empathy circle in early June and will share her team's curriculum development progress, including plans for intro-level and advanced courses with potential certification. They explored the possibility of incorporating empathy circles into Marta's February in-person event and discussed how nature-based empathy circles could benefit staff connection and conflict resolution.