2026-04-20 Susan and Edwin discuss developing the
5. Listening More Deeply Training Module
Zoom Meeting summary
Edwin and Susan discussed developing a training curriculum focused on deep listening and speaking skills for empathy circles. They agreed to create a 3-hour workshop that would help participants move beyond word-for-word repetition toward capturing the essence of what speakers are saying. Susan offered to create an outline for the training, which would include exercises and demonstrations of effective listening techniques. They discussed the importance of helping speakers feel heard and understood, with a goal of encouraging deeper sharing. The conversation also covered the broader Empathy Movement Curriculum Project, which Edwin is leading to create publicly available training materials. They agreed to meet again the following week to review Susan's outline and continue planning the curriculum.
Send Susan the link to the shared Google Doc for the project and ensure she has access.
Add the shared Google Doc link to the project page for ongoing collaboration.
Edwin and Susan discussed the need for training on active listening, particularly addressing issues with word-for-word repetition in current programs. Edwin outlined his vision for creating an empathy movement curriculum project, emphasizing the need for experienced curriculum developers to join the effort. He explained his role as an area expert and visionary, while seeking a team with specific training and curriculum expertise to develop the off-the-shelf training material.
Edwin discussed creating an advisory team and developing a public domain curriculum for the Empathy Movement, focusing on defining empathy and addressing common misconceptions. He proposed a 10-hour training program to clarify empathy concepts and mentioned existing resources like the Empathy Circle facilitator training. Susan expressed agreement with the approach and supported the idea of recording meetings for future reference.
Susan and Edwin discussed creating a curriculum focused on empathy and active listening exercises. They agreed on developing a 3-hour course format, with Susan offering to create an outline and potentially present the content. They explored ideas for incorporating practical exercises and discussed using Carl Rogers' videos as additional resources for participants to review outside of the session.
Edwin and Susan discussed creating a training program focused on improving listening skills and paraphrasing techniques. Susan agreed to create an outline for the training, which would include exercises for trainers and integrate results into empathy circles. They aligned on the goal of helping people move from word-for-word repetition toward capturing the essence of what speakers say, with the ultimate aim of enabling participants to apply these skills in everyday life. Susan emphasized that the goal should be for speakers to feel heard and continue talking, while Edwin noted that while some speakers prefer word-for-word reflection, this is rare and should not be the default approach.
Susan and Edwin discussed developing a workshop on deep listening and speaking for empathy circles. They agreed on creating an outline and demonstrating exercises to help participants listen more effectively and reflect the essence of speakers' messages. They planned to meet next week at 1 o'clock on the 27th to further develop the workshop content. Edwin created a shared Google Doc for collaboration, and they discussed making the materials publicly available to support the empathy movement.
give me a detailed summary of this transcript from the video:
Gemini Summary
This transcript documents a collaborative session between Edwin Rutsch and Susan regarding the development of a new module for the Empathy Movement Curriculum. The primary focus is on evolving the practice from basic reflection to a deeper level of listening and speaking.
The central goal of this meeting is to design a training module that moves beyond the foundational "word-for-word" reflection used in basic Empathy Circles toward a more nuanced, "essence-based" communication style.
Public Domain Mission: Edwin emphasizes that this curriculum must be public domain. Unlike many private trainings, the goal is to provide "off-the-shelf" materials that anyone can use and spread to foster a global empathy movement.
Defining Empathy: Edwin identifies a critical need for a module (potentially 10 hours) dedicated specifically to the definition of empathy. He notes that most criticisms of empathy are actually directed at "blocks" to empathy, not the process itself.
From Repetition to Essence: While rote repetition is a helpful starting point for beginners, the "Deeper" module aims to teach listeners how to:
Capture the essence and meaning of the speaker’s message.
Listen for "felt experiences," images, and feelings under the surface.
Reflect in a way that encourages the speaker to continue and elaborate.
Workshop Structure: Susan suggests a 3-hour participatory workshop (potentially two 1.5-hour sessions with a break).
Active Learning: The training will feature 4–5 specific exercises designed to bring empathy to life in the moment.
Influences: The pair discussed the heavy influence of Carl Rogers (Active Listening) and Eugene Gendlin (Felt Experience). They plan to use Rogers’ modeling videos as "homework" or study material for advanced facilitators.
Speaker Empowerment: A key principle discussed is that the speaker must be heard "to their satisfaction." The speaker is encouraged to take responsibility for ensuring their essence is accurately captured.
Shared Tools: Edwin set up a project page and a shared Google Doc titled "Listening and Speaking More Deeply" to co-author the curriculum outline.
Susan’s Expertise: Susan brings extensive experience in curriculum design, having previously authored a book on working effectively with university faculty.
Edwin’s Context: Edwin mentioned he is currently in Sacramento caring for his 96 and 97-year-old parents, utilizing his travel time to listen to audiobooks by Carl Rogers to further ground the project in foundational theory.
Susan will draft a curriculum outline including specific exercises by the upcoming weekend.
Edwin will continue refining the shared documentation and project headers.
Follow-up Meeting: Scheduled for April 27th at 1:00 PM.
Would you like me to focus on drafting any specific exercises or learning objectives based on the principles Susan and Edwin discussed here?
Here is a cleaned-up, professional version of the transcript. AI have removed the time codes, filler words, and repetitions while preserving the original meaning and the collaborative spirit of the conversation.
Participants: Edwin Rutsch and Susan
Edwin: I’m starting the recording now so we can use it for project development. We can create a heading for meetings and archive these recordings to make it easier to harvest insights later. This is for the Empathy Movement Curriculum project. I’ve been laying out the invitation to others and explaining why we need this material in the public domain. Currently, many people are doing their own private trainings to make a living, but we need something like our Empathy Circle Facilitator training that is publicly available for anyone to host.
Right now, we have a 10-hour facilitator training and a "train the trainer" program. I also want to create a specific training on the definition of empathy—perhaps another 10-hour course. It’s vital because much of the criticism directed at empathy is actually about "blocks" to empathy that people mislabel. The project you and I are discussing today is "Empathy Circle: Speaking and Listening More Deeply."
Susan: That’s lovely. I’ve created curricula before and I’m excited about developing exercises that bring these concepts to life. I’ve identified four or five exercises that help participants grasp the practice immediately so they can go home and use it right away.
Edwin: I’ve created a sub-page for this called "Going Deeper." We can also use a shared Google Doc for collaborative work. Looking at the scope, how do you think we should approach this? Would a 10-hour, four-session format be best, or something else?
Susan: I think we could accomplish a lot in three hours, provided we are clear about the desired outcomes. The goal is for the listener to behave in a way that encourages the speaker to go deeper. As the listener paraphrases skillfully, they help the speaker hear what they actually mean by putting words to images or feelings.
Edwin: I just finished listening to a book by Carl Rogers. His entire therapeutic approach was based on active listening. Should we proceed with an outline for a three-hour course?
Susan: I would be delighted to do that. We could structure it as a half-day program: an hour and a half of work, a 15-minute break, and then a final hour.
Edwin: We could even use Rogers’ videos of him modeling empathic listening as homework. For the training itself, we might have someone speak for three or four minutes, and then have the listener provide a short summary of the essence. This helps break the habit of "word-for-word" reflection. If you create the outline, we can review it together.
Susan: I’ll create that outline with specific exercises. This should be designed for trainers so the results can be built back into the Empathy Circles. My hope is that people take these skills into everyday life. While literal repeating is a good starting point, paraphrasing the essence is what really helps people in the real world.
Edwin: I agree. Repeating is often the "training wheels" for beginners, but we want to move them toward capturing the essence. Sometimes reflections end up longer than the original statement, which we want to avoid. We need to empower the speaker to ensure they are heard to their satisfaction. While rare, if a speaker specifically asks for word-for-word reflection, we should honor that, but the goal is usually deeper understanding.
Susan: Exactly. I would add that when people feel truly heard, they continue talking and clarifying the "mush" of feelings or images they started with. They often find their real point only after a few turns.
Edwin: That’s been my experience too. When I know someone is truly listening, I develop trust and open up because I’m not competing to be heard. I also want to incorporate Eugene Gendlin’s work on "felt experience." He found that people who speak from that place are the ones who experience the most growth.
Susan: Gendlin’s work is a huge contribution. I’ll make sure the outline includes a participatory workshop where we can demonstrate these exercises. I remember a story about Carl Rogers at a conference where his critics were getting emotional; he simply paraphrased their objections so calmly that the entire meeting became a demonstration of his method. It was astounding.
Edwin: That’s the power of modeling it in real-time. So, our desired outcomes are: listeners getting better at deep listening, reflecting the speaker’s essence so they feel "gifted," and encouraging the speaker to go deeper.
Susan: People usually need about three turns before they’ve really expressed themselves. They often start with a "trial run" to see if the listener is actually paying attention.
Edwin: That’s why we aim for at least three turns in the circle. It’s a collaboration. I’ve seen speakers call out listeners for not listening properly, and it actually transforms the listener’s skill. I’ll send you a link to a shared Google Doc so we can work on this outline together.
Susan: I’ll have that outline ready by this weekend. I’m happy to share everything I have for free to support this.
Edwin: That is exactly the goal—keeping it in the public domain so we can build a true empathy movement. Let’s meet again next week, the 27th at 1:00 PM.
Susan: Draft the 3-hour workshop outline and exercises by this weekend.
Edwin: Maintain the shared Google Doc and project page.
Next Meeting: April 27th at 1:00 PM.