Trinity problems
Major Problems with the Trinity
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/articles/MajorProblems.html
1. The One True God is Identified in the Bible as a singular "I", "Me", "He", "Him" and "Who."
In Hebrew, Greek, or English, the very purpose of singular personal prounouns is to signify a person is being identified. However, Trinitarians must resort to outright denial of this plain and obvious fact and insist rather that the one true God is three plural persons rather than one singular person. And because the one true God identifies himself with singular personal pronouns (see examples below) they must further insist that the one true God of the Bible is a singular "I", "Me", "He", "Him" and "Who" not because God is one person but because the one true God is one "being."
To you it was shown that you might know that YAHWEH, HE is God and there is no other besides HIM. (Deuteronomy 4:35; see Mark 12:32).
I, I am HE, And there is no God besidesME. (Deuteronomy 32:9).
Thus says YAHWEH, your Redeemer, and The One who formed you from the womb, "I, YAHWEH, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens byMYSELF And spreading out the earth all alone." (Isaiah 44:24).
While singular personal pronouns have the express purpose of signifying and identifying a single person, Trinitarians must deny this fact and insist rather the above verses do not refer to a single person. HOWEVER, in total contradiction to these claims, Trinitarians also insist that one much conclude that the Holy Spirit is indeed one distinct third PERSON because singular personal pronouns are used of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit has the "attributes" of a PERSON and while both of these things are true of the one true God which they hypocritically deny is one person.
2. The Identity of Jesus' One and Only God was not a Triune God
Jesus had a God. Jesus still has a God. Jesus' one and only God was his Father alone. For Jesus, the one and only God was the Father alone and he alone was Jesus' God. Trinitarians do not have the same God as Jesus. A one person God is not the same God as a three person God and God the Father is not by himself a distinct God in Trinitarian doctrine but only one hypostasis/person of the Triune God. Yet, this one person is was, and is, indeed for Jesus the one true God. Hence, Jesus' one true God is not the same God as the God of Trinitarians.
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46).
I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. (John 20:17).
He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God and never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. Revelation 3:12.
3. Jesus Identifies Our God for Us and it is not a Triune God.
Jesus never indicates he is our God or that three persons are our God. Jesus tells us who our God is and our God turns out to be the same God as his God: his Father.
I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. (John 20:17).
Father.... this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (John 17:3).
And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one,' and 'you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE is one, and there is no other but HE and to love HIM with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." (Mark 12::28-34).
Who did Jesus and this Jewish scribe have in mind? What one God were these two men talking about? Who was the one God of these two Jewish men? Jesus makes it quite clear that our God is his God, the same God as his God. Keep in mind that Trinitarians insist they do not believe in three Gods. This necessarily means that there is no such thing for them as the Father being a God all by Himself. Hence, the Father is not a God but only one hypostasis (person) of the one God. But for Jesus, his Father was indeed a God, his God, and the only true God.
4. Paul Identifies the One God of Christians as One Person
Trinitarians insist that the one God is not one person but three persons. However, at 1 Corinthians 8:6, Paul identifies the one God as one person. At 1 Corinthians 8:4 Paul declares "there is no God but one" and then he goes on to say that "for us there is one God" and he then identifies the one God as one person: the Father. If Paul believed in a three person God whatever then could be his point? Why identify
....there is no God but one..... for us there is one God, the Father. (1 Corinthians 8:6).
5. The First Person of the Trinity is Jesus' Father but the Third Person of the Trinity Fathered Jesus
To beget a son is to Father a son. Abraham begat Isaac means Abraham fathered Isaac. However, in the doctrine of the Trinity, we have the absurd implication that the third person of the Trinity fathered Jesus but the person who begat and fathered Jesus does not turn out to be his father. Rather the first person of the Trinity turns out to be Jesus' father! In the doctrine of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is most definitely NOT the Father.
Abraham begat (gennao) Isaac, and Isaac begat Jacob, and Jacob begat Judah and his brethren, and Judahbegat Pharez...Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been begotten(gennao) in her is of the Holy Spirit.. (Matthew 1).
The Holy Spirit will come upon you, andthe power of the Most High will overshadow you, therefore the child to be begotten (gennao) will be called holy, the Son of God. (Luke 1:35).
6. The Risen Jesus is the Holy Spirit
In the doctrine of the Trinity, the Spirit is definitely not Jesus. However, Paul identifies Jesus as the Holy Spirit. At 2 Corinthians 3, Paul is clearly discussing the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
You are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God... ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit... the ministry of the Spirit... the Lord IS the Spirit/u>. (2 Corinthians 3).
It is quite clear that "the Spirit" in view here is the Spirit Paul has just been talking about, the Holy Spirit. Now carefully observe how Paul identifies just who that Lord is when he says "the Lord is the Spirit."
But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because the veil is removed in Christ.
But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but the veil is taken away when a person turns to the Lord.
Now the Lord is the Spirit,
And Paul even makes it more clear:
But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because the veil is removed in CHRIST. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but the veil is taken away when a person turns to the Lord. Now THE LORD is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of THE LORD is, there is freedom. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of THE LORD, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from THE LORD, the Spirit. Therefore, since we have this ministry [of the Spirit], as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of CHRIST, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but CHRIST JESUS AS "LORD", and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. (2 Corinthians 3-4).
Paul makes it crystal clear that he has Jesus in mind when he says "the Lord is the Spirit." However, in Trinitarian doctrine, Jesus is most definitely NOT the Holy Spirit. Observe also how Paul had been talking about the glory of the Spirit and now calls this the glory of the Lord and then even further the glory of Christ.
7. Jesus declared that ONLY the Father Knows the Day and Hour
Jesus declared that only the Fatherknows the day and hour of Jesus' return. This not only excludes Jesus the second person of the Trinity, it also excludes the Holy Spirit defined as the third person of the Trinity. Hence, two persons of the Trinity are not omniscient by definition while at the same time Trinitarians insist that all three persons are omniscient (all knowing).
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but ONLY the Father. (Matthew 24:36).
8. Every single Trinitarian "Prooftext" has very serious problems associated with it.
These are illustrated on this website.
Created: March 7, 2011
Last Updated: March 8, 2011