02:56 - Childhood sessions and growing up around music
05:16 - Why friendship matters more than the music alone
07:38 - Returning to music through Temple Bar sessions
10:25 - Ballyfermot and the course that reignited everything
13:13 - Adult learners, belonging, and the social side of classes
16:57 - Why the Balaclavas session exists for nervous or developing players
21:06 - Feeling protective, but not wanting to police other players
23:37 - The challenge of mixing different levels in one session
26:31 - Players moving on to stronger sessions after gaining confidence
31:11 - Calling each other out respectfully in a safe group
33:49 - What a mic'd up session is, and how it differs from a real session
38:12 - Why clapping can create timing problems in a session
40:33 - Why quiet pubs help musicians hear each other
41:22 - The people, the room, and Jacqui’s two ideal session types
48:21 - Describing bounce, drive, and musical energy
54:52 - How seating naturally evolves in a regular weekly session
59:00 - Making room for newcomers without putting them on the spot
63:32 - Why arriving in and forcing a different style is disruptive
65:09 - The danger of pushing nervous players too hard too soon
66:37 - Closing thought on common sense and respectful behavior
69:42 - How tunes become tied to people, places, and memories
71:28 - Playing in a session that feels like 'home'
72:54 - Why Leitrim, its musicians, and its energy matter so much
74:39 - The common thread across quiet sessions and big festival sessions
76:30 - Closing reflections on people, energy, and the magic of a good session
Conversational Transcript
*[This is an AI edited conversational transcript, lightly shaped for readability while keeping the spirit of the original conversation. Full transcript generated by Tara is available by clicking on the 3 dots in the bottom left corner on the player above.]
What does an Irish traditional music session mean?
Tara:
Hello Jacqui Martin, how are you doing?
Jacqui:
Hello Tara. How are you? It is so good to see you.
Tara:
It is great to see you. I know we are not in person, but we can be in person again soon.
Jacqui, you are a fiddle player and music teacher from County Dublin, just behind the airport really.
So you get to play along with all the airplanes going overhead.
Jacqui:
You have constant drone overhead. It is great.
Tara:
Is it in D?
Jacqui:
It varies. It depends how low they are.
Tara:
Tell me, what does an Irish traditional music session mean to you?
Jacqui:
I am so long going to them that they are like a safe space, a comfort place.
I cannot remember a first one.
I do not remember when they started.
I am the youngest of five and everyone had started learning music before I did. I know it sounds clichéd, but I never remember not playing music.
I can remember going to sessions at a very young age, but I do not remember the first one. They have just always been part of my life.
They are very much comfort for me.
Childhood sessions and Comhaltas
Tara:
That is funny. I was thinking, when was my first session?
I started fiddle at twelve, but I do not remember the very first session either.
Jacqui:
I can remember going to ones with Clontarf Comhaltas.
Because all the others in my family were older and were going to classes before me, I remember going with the rest of the family.
Classes were in Donnycarney, and I joined when I was only about four or five.
I played different instruments through the years.
When I was about twelve or thirteen, myself and my friend Bernadette De Conaughton, who was my best friend all through our Comhaltas years, used to go to a session in the Maples Hotel in Glasnevin.
They started one there on Sunday nights in the summer.
I remember it being very exciting because I felt so grown up.
It was an excursion out.
Myself and my sister used to get the bus in together. A neighbour of ours went too, and we met all our friends there.
That was probably the first session we went to regularly on our own.
All the other local ones, our dad would have taken us to.
This was the first one where myself and my sister would set off on a Sunday evening, get the bus in, meet our friends and come home again.
It was great craic.
We used to order this drink that was like Cidona, but with a different name. Obviously non-alcoholic, but we thought we were very fancy.
We were probably thirteen in our paisley shirts and waistcoats.
When I think of that session, I remember getting the bus in, the paisley shirts and that apple-flavoured drink.
They were the highlights.
The importance of having a friend in music
Tara:
I think it is the friendship thing.
I definitely had a best friend as well, Denise, and only for having that growing up, I do not know if I would have continued.
The friendship thing makes it so different to other musics.
Jacqui:
Absolutely.
I remember when my friend moved into the next age group before me, I did not enjoy it as much.
I went into the under eighteens and only did a few weeks, then left.
My school friends did not play music. There was no music in school. I had no friends locally who played music.
At that age, fifteen or sixteen, I think I lost interest a bit.
I stopped playing for a while.
I kept up local sessions if there was something on, but I stopped going to the Comhaltas group.
I think it was because I did not have my person.
So it fell by the wayside for a few years.
Coming back through listening
Tara:
What made you go back into it?
Jacqui:
There was one girl in secondary school I was really good friends with.
It turned out after years in school together that she was an Irish dancer, and I never knew. She did not realise I played music either.
She used to dance in Temple Bar, in some of the pubs where there were sessions on.
They were mic’d-up sessions.
It turned out we knew people in common through my brother, who was still playing a lot.
So I started going with her into Temple Bar and listening to sessions.
I did not join in because I had been away from playing properly for a couple of years, and I did not want to join in until I felt ready.
The sessions I started going to listen to had people like Paul McNevin, Óisín Mac Amhlaigh and Peter Browne.
They were really cool sessions, but the highest quality of music.
I thought, there is no way I am playing. I would not be able for it.
I ended up going to Óisín Mac Amhlaigh for lessons.
It was through sessions that I got back into it.
I listened first, and then after a while I thought, actually, I do want to be part of this again.
Being Tommy’s little sister
Tara:
Did you have a friend at that stage helping you get back into the session?
Jacqui:
I made friends with the people in the sessions.
My friend did not play, but she was interested through dancing.
The two of us went to Milltown one year and listened to sessions.
I think I joined in one.
She was like my mother, telling me, “Sit in there. Sit in and play a tune.”
I was so intimidated.
But I did sit in, and I met some really nice people.
In Dublin, because I had an older brother, Tommy, I was very much Tommy’s little sister.
I was like a novelty.
They would say, “Sit in there and play.”
They were extremely helpful.
I remember going into the daytime Gogarty sessions, which were lovely back then. Cuan Mac Aogáin used to play there a lot and he was so nice, getting me playing. Malachy Bourke was around too.
That whole crew played a lot then, and they were deadly.
They were older, but very good to me.
Through playing with them, I met more people my own age.
Then through hanging out with them, I heard about the Ceoltóir course in Ballyfermot, and that was what really kicked it all off.
The Ceoltóir course and meeting the right people
Tara:
I did not know you did that course.
Jacqui:
Yes, I did it twenty-three or twenty-four years ago, around 2001 to 2003.
Tara:
It is the friends, isn’t it?
Jacqui:
It absolutely is.
I see it now with kids I teach.
Some of them go to Drumshanbo and they love it. One of them came back to lessons in September still wearing the wristband from Drumshanbo in July.
I thought, that is brilliant.
But it is because they are making friends.
It is such a social outlet.
I have taught loads of kids through the years who had one lesson a week and did not play outside the house other than that.
They did not stick at it. They had no interest.
The friends are the most important thing.
Friendship for adult learners
Tara:
Do you think it is the same for adult learners?
Having a friend, or making friends in Irish music classes, helps you stick at it.
Jacqui:
Yes.
I teach on Wednesday nights in the Cobblestone, with the Balaclavas sessions.
A couple of weeks ago it was the nineteenth anniversary of the Balaclavas. Tom Mulligan started it nineteen years ago.
There was a man in our session who had passed away, and he was so loved.
He kept everyone together.
He was so kind to new people. He would help you with anything.
His funeral was on the day of the Balaclava anniversary.
I was sitting at the funeral and saw loads of members from the sessions. People who are now really good friends, but only met because they started going into that session.
Even that man had gone to a session before and felt really intimidated, and did not play again for ages.
His daughter-in-law got him coming in on the Wednesday. She heard about the Cobblestone session and started learning an instrument so she could bring him.
He ended up being the king of it. Everyone loved him.
He made sure everyone had friends.
We had social nights out. We went for dinner one night and a couple of ladies were texting each other in the WhatsApp group saying, “I do not know anyone. I know you are new. Can I meet you beforehand?”
They are all the best of friends now.
The friendships drive it on.
It is why you go back.
You have that safety, that person you can sit beside, and then you start going to other sessions together.
Where did the name Balaclavas come from?
Tara:
Tell me where the name Balaclavas came from.
Jacqui:
It is funny.
Some people join because they hear about the sessions in the Cobblestone and know it is a Wednesday class.
They might be there a few weeks before they realise.
Then they ask to be added to the WhatsApp group and the group is called the Balaclavas.
You can see them thinking, what am I joining?
Tom Mulligan started it.
I think somebody in the group was particularly nervous.
The whole thing started because people wanted to play but were afraid to play out in public. They did not want to be sitting into a session and were nervous.
I think Tom passed a comment, very flippantly, saying, “Sure, throw on your balaclava. Nobody will know who you are. You will be safe.”
And the name stuck.
They became the Balaclavas.
Jacqui:
It is so important for people to know there is somewhere they can go and be welcome.
They are not stressing before they go in.
Even if they do not know exactly who will be there on a night, they know it will be somebody of their own level and ability.
They can sit safely and comfortably beside somebody, enjoy a night and have nothing massively expected of them, only that they enjoy it.
Tara:
Do you give them recommendations about how to join other sessions afterwards?
Jacqui:
I have not really, mostly because they have done that themselves.
They have created their own opportunities.
They tend to stick together.
I used to think, we are here on a Wednesday night and whatever they decide to do outside Wednesday is up to them.
I did not want to be in control of it.
I did not want to lay down rules.
I did not want them saying, “Jacqui said we should do this,” because everyone interprets things differently.
So I have never really addressed it hugely.
They have created their own sessions elsewhere.
They have gone down the country, but they go together. They have a unit, a group of people.
From what I know, they always know in advance what they are turning up to.
They are not arriving into a session that might be ahead of them and not knowing what to do.
They have their own opportunities.
They are having a better social life than I do.
The birds and the bees of sessions
Jacqui:
I probably would have been more conscious of waiting to have the big conversation.
It is like waiting to have a talk with your child.
Tara:
The birds and the bees talk.
Jacqui:
Exactly.
When you meet somebody.
But they have just gone off and organised it for themselves.
So I have not had to tell them much.
There has not been a time where I have had to say, “Listen, you need to hold back.”
Tara:
At the same time, you would feel almost motherly. You do not want them to be hurt either.
Jacqui:
Yes.
I have been at festivals and heard people say, “Jeez, they are taking over the place.”
Maybe it is a double-edged sword.
They have gained confidence and will now go out and play anywhere when they have their own little group.
They are not going into an established session and throwing themselves in there.
They are very much not.
But they might be the first in the door to take over a pub.
There are more people playing now.
Festivals and things are getting smaller because pubs are closing, and there are not as many places for people to play.
So when it comes to festivals, it is first in.
And if it happens to be a Balaclava-style session, so be it.
Competition for session real estate
Tara:
There is competition for the real estate.
Jacqui:
There is.
Sometimes people joke, “You have created a monster.”
But that monster is really happy.
If I am in a session, I can navigate what happens at the time.
But I do not think it is fair to tell anybody, “You are not at a good enough level, so you cannot go and take over that pub today.”
Tara:
Looking at the flip side, where do other musicians go then?
Do they just not play?
Jacqui:
I have also been that person who arrived into a pub and thought, God, I cannot get anywhere to play.
In Drumshanbo, Milltown or any festival around the country, I have arrived and not had anywhere to play.
But I am probably more sympathetic to the other side.
The Balaclavas know why they are coming.
They know they are trying to get comfortable in a safe space, whether they are coming back to music or learning music from an older age.
The age range varies from mid-twenties to seventies.
They know why they are there.
They are not ready for the front bar.
That is the point.
We joke about some of them being graduates who do not need to come to the Balaclavas anymore.
Maybe they reached a level of confidence where they did not need the slower session anymore, but they were not confident enough to go straight into the front bar.
Tara:
Do you think people can progress into higher-standard sessions?
Jacqui:
Plenty have.
There are people I do not see anymore because they are playing elsewhere now, which is lovely.
Some are doing their own teaching.
Some had played before and were rusty.
Some were not confident enough and wanted somewhere to get back into meeting people.
A lot of people are just nervous sitting in with strangers.
You get that practice from coming into a slower session and getting comfortable.
I see plenty of them around festivals now.
They came for a few weeks, a few months or a couple of years, and then they flew the nest.
When two sessions accidentally collide
Tara:
Have any of them ever told you about a negative experience?
Jacqui:
Not really.
They tend to stick together.
There was one recent excursion where six or eight of them were down the country and had reserved an area for themselves in a pub.
One of the members was from there originally and rang someone connected with the bar to ask if a few of them could come down and join.
They said, “Absolutely no problem,” but did not tell them there was already a session there.
The bar did not know any different.
They just said, “Sure, they can join with the others.”
There was definitely a clash when they got there.
The regulars were saying, “We are here all the time.”
It was a mixture of a clash of personality and unfortunate circumstances.
Regulars, visitors and numbers
Tara:
It is not that sessions and regulars would not be open to musicians joining.
It is when a busload of twelve or twenty musicians arrives in and it is like, what is going on here?
Jacqui:
Exactly.
If there are two or three regular musicians and six or seven others land in, but the six or seven are not at the same level and they outnumber the regulars, who do you give the time to?
Do you go with the number of people there, who only know a set amount of tunes?
Or do the regulars get priority?
I could see both sides.
I was annoyed at the attitude, but at the same time, for the regulars, it might be their only session of the week.
They could be really looking forward to their tunes, at their own speed, with their own repertoire.
It is hard to mix the two.
Tara:
I think you need an in.
You need somebody you know, and smaller numbers.
A friend of mine calls it the tractors and trailers analogy.
You need tractors in the middle who can gel together and pull the session.
They need to hear each other well. A new pace is formed.
Once that is formed strongly, you can bring more trailers.
But if the trailers are in between, or there are too many trailers for the tractors, they can topple the tractors.
Jacqui:
That is difficult.
So far, that is the only negative thing someone has come to me about.
They were only relaying the story. They were not expecting anything to be done.
There have been a couple of jostles in the session, but because it is a safe space and they have built a safe community, they have no problem saying, “Hold on, that is too fast,” and they can respectfully call each other out.
They know it is coming from a good place.
The strange equality of session friendships
Tara:
It is funny that musicians can know each other well, but not know anything about each other outside the music.
Jacqui:
I often say, “My friend such-and-such,” then someone asks where they are from or what they do.
And I do not know.
How long do I know them? Twenty years.
I know nothing about them.
One lovely lady in the Balaclava classes said to me one day, “I do not know what anybody does here. I do not know anybody’s surname, and I do not need to know. I am happy. We are all equal.”
She said, “The more you know about somebody, the more difficult sometimes things can get. That is why I love it here. Nobody asks questions. We are all here for the same reason.”
There are so many people I have known for years and years. I know nothing about them, but we are great friends.
Mic’d-up sessions and tourist gigs
Tara:
You mentioned mic’d-up sessions in Temple Bar.
Can you explain what a mic’d-up session is for people who might not know?
Jacqui:
There are a lot of pubs, especially in bigger towns and cities, that advertise live music.
But they are not necessarily sessions you can join.
You might have three or four musicians mic’d up, aimed at tourists and getting a crowd into the pub.
They are not sessions you can necessarily join.
Years ago, there might have been two or three mics on the table, just picking up enough sound to carry through the room.
Then you have the more staged version. They are not on a proper stage, but it is more like a stage gig, with a mic per person.
It is definitely for the entertainment of the crowd, and not necessarily for yourselves.
It looks like a session, but it is a gig.
Tara:
A concert in a session format.
A sess-cert?
Jacqui:
A sess-cert.
Tara:
Or a con-sion.
Jacqui:
Come and join our con-sion live every Friday.
Being wheeled out when culture is useful
Tara:
You sometimes get asked to play at something when there is a dignitary around.
There may or may not be microphones, but it is more like a concert than a session.
They want it to look like a session.
Jacqui:
Yes.
They want it to look natural and create an atmosphere.
Tara:
So they can talk over it.
Trad musicians get wheeled out when something is on, and then they never want to see us again.
Jacqui:
Exactly.
We have been lucky to get lovely gigs abroad over the last few years.
When they want to show off the culture, it is, “Aren’t you great? Look at our fantastic musicians.”
Then you never hear from them again.
They do not really have any use for us outside that.
Irish music at home and abroad
Tara:
A lot of people would not realise how Irish music can be more appreciated outside Ireland than inside Ireland.
The term “diddley-i-shite” gets said about Irish musicians and the session in the corner.
Jacqui:
Or you are doing a session, and it is really nice, and then someone says, “Can you play something lively? Do you know any fast ones?”
Tara:
And you are thinking, what have I just been playing?
Jacqui:
Or somebody comes in, shouts “Woo!” and starts doing a Highland fling.
It is not even Irish. That is Scottish.
Clapping and the problem of timing
Tara:
In a session, we do not love the clapping.
But I think it is more about physics.
People are so far away from the session that the time delay creates a crazy rhythm.
They are slightly behind us, and then we are trying to follow which beat we are supposed to stick to.
Jacqui:
It is completely a timing issue.
It is not that we do not want appreciation.
It is not, “How dare you enjoy yourself?”
It is purely the timing.
I am pretty good at blocking it out to a certain extent.
A few weeks ago, we were playing in a hotel room or function room. There was a piano in the room.
One of the lads went down to the piano and started accompanying us.
What he was doing was amazing. He is a fantastic musician.
But there was a delay.
He did not realise there was a delay, and we were falling around the place laughing because he was so into it.
Had we all been sitting beside him, it would have been different.
But where he was, the beat was behind us.
It was a nerdy comedy musical moment.
When musicians cannot hear each other
Tara:
I was at a session earlier in the summer.
It was a lovely quiet pub, which musicians love because we can hear each other.
But the table was so big we could not hear each other across it.
Everyone felt miles away, and we could not gel.
There were great musicians there, but it did not work.
Jacqui:
When you are struggling to hear, you cannot really get into what is going on around you.
If I am struggling to hear, I lose track of what I am doing.
I cannot concentrate on the two things at the same time.
People are too far away.
What makes a fabulous session?
Tara:
I am trying to deconstruct the key ingredients that make up a fabulous session.
What would your key ingredients be?
Jacqui:
The people, first and foremost.
I know you probably will not believe this, and a lot of people do not, but I can get very socially awkward.
The mask will be on and I will look like I am having a great time, but inside I am worried about sixteen things at the same time.
I am thinking, am I playing too loud?
Am I out of tune?
Somebody beside me starts tuning up and I think that is my fault.
I am very anxious-ridden all the time.
Jacqui:
I was going to say I love a session that is not too big, but then I had a flash of times when you are in really big sessions and it is manic and brilliant.
So I have two perfect sessions.
I love a small session, not too big a room, and like you said, a quiet environment.
I also love a big session when the energy is right.
And I always love if there is a singer there.
I love songs in sessions.
It can be anything.
I do not care what they sing.
Every so often, somebody sings a song, and I love listening to it.
Why songs matter in a session
Tara:
Why do you love listening?
Does it give space between the tunes?
Jacqui:
Yes, I think so.
I just love singing.
Maybe it is the melody.
Sometimes the words really get you, but a lot of the time I do not even care what they are singing about.
If there is a really nice melody, I want it to go on for ages.
It is a chance to hear a beautiful melody nice and quiet, because everyone will hush for the singer.
I have no problem with slow airs in sessions either.
I love when somebody plays a slow air.
Maybe it is my neurodivergence kicking in.
It is a chance for everything to quieten and settle.
Maybe it gives me a bit of peace for a few minutes.
The respect given to songs
Tara:
You mentioned people hushing for singers.
I think that is a very Irish thing.
I do not know if it happens as much in other countries.
Jacqui:
I have to give a shout out to the staff in the Cobblestone.
No matter how long they are working there, one thing they are told is that the respect goes to the musicians, the music and particularly to the songs.
The staff will call for quiet.
I have come in the side door on a Wednesday evening to get the key for the back room, and the whole pub is in dead silence.
The first time it happened, I thought something had happened.
But somebody was singing a song.
The place can be bedlam, but they will call for silence.
Since COVID, I think there is a new atmosphere.
There is more appreciation.
When people could not get to sessions or live music, they began to respect it more when they got it again.
Around where the session is, there is often a barrier of people who really want to listen, and that blocks out some of the sound from behind.
There will be deathly silence called for a singer.
Then the song finishes, the tune starts and the whole place lifts again.
It is only right that if there is one voice to be heard, there should be quiet to hear it.
I love that respect.
What makes tunes bangin’?
Tara:
You said “bangin’ tunes.”
What makes tunes bangin’ rather than not bangin’?
Jacqui:
Rhythm.
Speed is irrelevant to me.
I might be in the humour of playing really fast and wanting to bang out tunes.
Then there are what myself and a friend used to call our slow swishy moments, where we wanted to cruise through tunes.
But it is rhythm.
If I am teaching someone, I do not care if they never play fast.
As long as there is rhythm in it.
That is what makes tunes bangin’, fast or slow.
Good rhythm.
Tara:
How do you tell what good rhythm is?
I realised recently that, for me, it is all about dance.
I started Irish dancing before fiddle.
I was not an elegant dancer, but I was a rhythmical dancer.
My dancing teacher used to say, “Listen to her, but do not look at her feet.”
To me, the bounce is the space where the dancer’s foot would be in the air.
The music has to be there too.
Jacqui:
When you said pulse, three people came into my head: Caoimhe Mulligan, Joe Stones and Séamus O’Kane.
Bangin’ rhythm.
You can feel the sway of it because it is dance music.
If there is a dancer there, it is all for dancing.
But even if there is no dancer, if we bring that rhythm into the music, it makes everybody in the room feel like they want to dance.
When you play a session anywhere in the world, and people are hearing Irish music for the first time, if you are giving the rhythm it should have, if you are dancing your tune, it does not matter where they are from.
They are going to feel that rhythm.
Tara:
“If you are dancing your tune.”
That is giving me goosebumps.
Where to sit in a session
Tara:
I have a questionnaire on SessionEtiquette.com, with questions, challenges and desires that listeners have sent in.
One question is about seating.
Where to sit, or who sits where?
Jacqui:
I know I have my own seat on a Thursday night, but that is habit.
We have a session every week, and there is also somebody else in the time slot before me.
There is a natural changing over.
When we arrive, the same two seats are vacated for the next session coming in.
For the session after us, we arrange ourselves so the next people coming in have space.
The seating situation is born out of habit.
That is where that person was sitting the first night I came here, so the next night I leave that seat for them again.
I think the tractors should be parked next to each other, purely so they can hear.
I do not hate the phrase “leading the session,” but I am not keen on the word leading.
I understand what it means and why people say it.
There is somebody there to start it.
I would say they are starting the session.
Those people should be beside each other, because they will be starting the bulk of things.
Making people feel included
Jacqui:
I think it is important to include the people who join you.
For me, it is important to let people know that yes, we are doing the gig, but we are not dictating everything.
I prefer that because it leaves it open.
I am very bad at introducing myself.
Not because I do not want to do it, but because I do not think to do it.
I am very bad at turning around and saying, “What is your name? My name is Jacqui.”
It is a nervous thing.
Tara:
Whereas I love doing that because I feel I have automatically made someone more comfortable.
Jacqui:
I think mine is a neuro thing.
I think, sure, they probably do not want to know who I am.
I feel awkward saying my own name.
I feel like I am imposing myself on people.
I will chat to them all evening, but I trip over the part where I tell them my name.
One thing I will always do is if people come in and sit very far away, still in the session area but away from the group, I will say, “Do you want to move up beside us?”
You can feel the discomfort because they have positioned themselves further away.
Tara:
If they are too far out, it is hard to keep them included in the session and the conversation.
It is also hard because they cannot hear.
They hear everything a second behind, then what they play is a second behind, and it puts everybody off.
Jacqui:
Sessions are so enjoyable, but there is a whole world of awkwardness around them.
It is a funny concept when you think about it.
You meet up with friends to play tunes and have a session, and it is fantastic and everyone has a great night.
But there is the odd time where it is a very unusual social experiment.
You put two people in a room, absolutely anyone can join them and anything can happen.
That is where awkward personalities come in.
Somebody could make or break the whole evening just by not being sure what to do.
Etiquette as behaviour in a group
Tara:
Any group of people has etiquette.
It does not have to be music.
If you are in a group at work, there are behaviours.
The word etiquette is really about behaviours.
Jacqui:
Yes.
I do not like the idea that you have to apply rules to anything.
But take music away from it.
You are in a social area.
You need to read the room, know your place, do your bit but not impose yourself.
That is without adding music, sport or art.
It is just meeting people and trying to be respectful in a small space.
Then add music, with a range of abilities, all in one space.
It is hard to do.
Arriving with the wrong musical conversation
Jacqui:
People can know what to do, but it is hard to do it.
Somebody might come in, force themselves into the session, take out an instrument and start playing jazz.
And you think, no, that is not what we have been doing all evening.
You have not bothered to listen to what is going on.
That is like arriving into a choir with the wrong sheet music and wrong song words and singing anyway.
You would not arrive into an orchestra with a bodhrán, concertina or wooden flute, start playing jigs and reels and say, “Sure, we are all playing music. We are just jamming.”
But because sessions are social, everything is supposed to be accepted.
That is unfair.
It puts people in an awkward situation.
You would not arrive into someone else’s conversation and start screaming at them about a topic they were not discussing.
It is pure manners.
Some people do it because they are nervous and think, “Right, I need to just get in and do it.”
Pushy encouragement and being set up to fail
Tara:
Since starting this podcast, I have heard lots of stories from people.
One person was told, “If you are not jumping in when there is a gap between tunes, what are you doing there at all? You need to be playing all the time.”
But they did not know the tunes enough, and then everyone got frustrated.
I thought, why would somebody say that to a person?
They were set up for failure.
Jacqui:
You see it all the time.
It can come from a good place, like pushy parents saying, “Sit in there, play your tunes.”
But the person does not want to because they are too nervous.
Give them a chance.
They might know what to do.
They might realise this is not the time.
But they are being pushed by someone who does not know what they are supposed to be doing either.
It is not about imposing rules or telling people how to have fun.
Take the music out and think about the situation.
You would not land in on company you do not know and start roaring.
You just would not.
You would not do it without an instrument in your hand.
So why do it with one?
The tune that stayed with Jacqui
Tara:
The previous guest left a question.
Is there a single tune that stuck with you forever, with a deeper meaning, that you never get tired of?
Jacqui:
Probably The Gooseberry Bush.
When I did the Ceoltóir course years ago, I met Lorraine Sweeney and Liz Coleman for the first time.
We are still really good friends.
Lorraine in particular, I played a lot with. The two of us did a lot of duet stuff.
The Gooseberry Bush was a tune we learned on the course. I think I learned it from Michelle O’Brien.
It was a tune we always played together.
When I hear it, I think of Lorraine.
Meeting those two girls on that course was the reason music became something more for me. A whole other level.
That was when I thought, I am never not playing again.
That tune always reminds me of when it all started, twenty years after I started playing.
Every time I hear it, I think of the girls.
Tunes that belong to people
Tara:
It is funny that tunes can remind you of people.
Jacqui:
I have so many tunes that remind me of people.
If I am in a session or doing a gig and I am stuck for tunes, I will think of people rather than tunes.
Once I think of a person, the tunes I associate with that person come to mind.
Tara:
If I am in Wexford, I will think of Phil Murphy tunes.
If I am in Kerry, Cork, Belfast or wherever, I think of tunes connected with those places too.
Jacqui:
Myself and Lorraine do not get to play together very often.
We could go a year or two without properly sitting down and playing.
But as soon as we start, we might be a part or two into the tune and there will be a little look.
The two of us start laughing.
It sounds corny, but it feels like home again.
I get into the same rhythm as her.
There are a few tunes in particular where I think, I have not been here in ages, and it feels like a place.
I associate the sound of her playing with years of brilliant craic.
Because Lorraine is from Leitrim, I started going down to Leitrim with her.
There used to be a Leitrim session in the Cobblestone on Thursday evenings.
I got to know so many musicians from there.
I fell in love with the county.
When I hear particular tunes or see any of them, it is like another home.
People are the common ingredient
Tara:
You mentioned two different types of session you love: the small one and the big one.
What is the common thing between them?
Jacqui:
After going through this conversation, I think it is just the people.
If I take the people from the small quiet session and put them into the big raucous session, that is loads of craic.
It is the personalities.
They bring personality to the music being played.
Personality comes through in music.
There is definitely giddiness too.
A big session for me has to have people I know quite well to get that feeling going.
That drives the divilment.
It is seeing them all together and thinking, this is brilliant, they are all here.
That can happen in a quiet space too.
But when you have the extra energy of a bigger room and a bigger listening crowd, the whole thing lifts.
It is like taking that lovely session with your friends from a house and putting it into a pub at twelve o’clock on a Saturday night at a bangin’ festival.
The whole thing just lifts.
Maybe it is drink. I do not know.
But when you take that smaller energy and put it into a big room where people are getting it, the energy rises.
It is all energy.
Tara:
Jacqui, this has been fabulous.
I do not want to stop talking to you.
Thank you so much.
Jacqui:
Thank you.
It was great to do it.
Jacqui Martin’s episode keeps coming back to one thing: people.
Not just skill. Not just repertoire. Not just whether the tunes are fast, slow, advanced, simple, old or new.
People.
The person you sit beside.
The friend who gets you back playing.
The older musician who makes space for you.
The learner who needs somewhere safe to try.
The returning musician who is not ready for the front bar yet.
The regular who has waited all week for their one good night of tunes.
Jacqui’s experience with the Balaclavas shows why slow sessions and learning spaces matter. They are not lesser versions of “real” sessions. At their best, they are bridges. They give people a place to build rhythm, confidence, friendships and the small social knowledge that cannot be learned from a tune book.
But the conversation also names the complication.
When people gain confidence, they need somewhere to go. When groups of learners arrive together, they can create a lovely session of their own, but they can also accidentally unsettle what was already happening. When regular musicians arrive for their weekly tunes and find the room already full, they can feel pushed out too.
Nobody in that situation has to be the villain.
That is why awareness matters.
A session is not just a musical space. It is a social one. Jacqui puts it plainly: take the music out of it first. You would not walk into a conversation you had not listened to and start roaring about something else. The instrument does not change that.
One of the strongest parts of this episode is the way Jacqui talks about rhythm.
Speed is not the point. Rhythm is.
A tune can be slow and still have lift. It can be fast and still fall flat. It can be simple and still make the room move if the pulse is there.
And then there is that lovely phrase: dancing your tune.
That says more than a technical explanation ever could. It brings the music back to the body, back to the feet, back to the reason so much of this music exists in the first place.
This episode is especially useful because it does not pretend that sessions are always easy. They can be joyful, awkward, generous, intimidating, funny, chaotic and deeply comforting, sometimes all in the same night.
They are, as Jacqui says, a strange social experiment.
You put people in a room, anyone can join them and anything can happen.
That is exactly why they need more than tunes.
They need listening.
They need rhythm.
They need friendship.
They need people who know when to move closer, when to hold back, when to make space and when to let the whole thing lift.
*Produced & recorded by Tara Connaghan and edited by Anita Alvarez Santos
*Intro music: private recording of Jacqui Martin and a live recording of Jacqui Martin and Lorraine Sweeney
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