01:35 – Returning to music and finding a regular session
03:29 – What does a genuine Irish music session mean?
04:22 – Does being paid change the session?
05:18 – When the best sessions happen by accident
06:01 – The highs and lows of sessions
07:12 – Finding the rhythmic sweet spot
08:19 – When speed starts running away
09:07 – Going blank when somebody asks you to start a tune
10:54 – Choosing tunes other people will know
13:09 – Why Tara does not want to play solo in a session
14:03 – Performing on stage versus playing with people
15:13 – Knowing when listening contributes more than playing
16:13 – Sessions that are open and sessions that are not
17:46 – Sometimes musicians simply want a conversation with their friends
19:04 – Advice for musicians beginning to join sessions
20:33 – How better musicians can pull your playing upwards
22:10 – Everybody gets nervous
23:49 – Phones, recordings and how they change the session
23:49 – Recording in sessions and being in the moment
25:06 – Tourist sessions and mic'd-up performances
26:03 – Receiving negative feedback in a session
27:24 – When somebody really does need to be asked to stop
29:19 – Do we need better language for difficult conversations?
30:51 – Is there a minimum level for joining a session?
31:50 – Different types and levels of sessions
32:53 – Why improver sessions can help
33:50 – Recreating session conditions at home
35:26 – What makes a successful session for Éamon?
37:30 – Music for comfort and inspiration
39:36 – Why house sessions feel different
41:00 – Where did the modern session come from?
42:20 – Sessions after COVID
Conversational Transcript
*[This is an AI edited conversational transcript, lightly shaped for readability while keeping the spirit of the original conversation. Full transcript generated by Tara is available by clicking on the 3 dots in the bottom left corner on the player above.]
Tara:
I'm here in Arranmore Island again with Éamon Ó Ciosáin, a Dublin flute and whistle player.
You started as a young kid playing the whistle and then you kind of...
Éamon:
I didn't do anything with it for a long time, although I was sometimes surrounded by musicians.
I lived abroad for six or seven years in France and when I came back, I fell in with a group of musicians through renting a house from one of them.
I started going to a weekly session and went to it for most of the years since.
I was brought along by my landlord, so to speak, and there was another guy there I knew as well.
That was my introduction.
Éamon:
I'd been listening at sessions for a long time, but I didn't pay that much attention to them until I became involved myself.
Some of the musicians had very big repertoires, so I picked up an awful lot of tunes from them.
In the early days it was a big, noisy session.
I could pick up tunes and make mistakes and, in the general hubbub, they weren't noticed too much.
Sometimes you would get a look from somebody and you would understand that you had better ease off and know the tune a bit better.
At that stage I was playing whistle.
The flute is a much stronger instrument. In a noisy place the flute will carry.
But that also means you need to be much surer of your tunes.
What is a genuine session?
Tara:
What does an Irish music session mean to you?
Éamon:
What I would consider the genuine one would be people getting together generally for the pleasure of playing.
I like a mixture of instrumental music and singing.
The variety gets more people involved.
It's nice to have people dropping in or locals joining in. If somebody has a party piece, get them involved.
Then there is the question of money.
I've rarely played sessions for money, although there are people who act as regular anchor musicians and get paid while others come and join them.
That's the format of quite a lot of sessions.
Where you have money, it sometimes changes the nature of the relationships.
When you are paid, you are on duty
Tara:
I do get paid to play music, but I choose when I get paid and when I don't.
The ones where I don't get paid I often enjoy much more.
Éamon:
If you're getting paid, you're on duty.
You have to keep the session moving.
You are in more of an organisational role.
You might have to call somebody in and say, “Time for a tune from you.”
Tara:
Exactly.
I try to make sure everybody is enjoying it if I am being paid, but it is a different role.
I prefer getting paid for something closer to a concert setting.
I love the organic nature of sessions.
Sessions that appear out of nowhere
Éamon:
Sometimes the best sessions are happenings.
They're not planned.
People bump into each other and start playing and suddenly another two or four people join.
Tara:
Or somebody texts and says, “Such and such is around,” or “I happen to be near Glenties. Are you around?”
Éamon:
Exactly.
A session can start out of thin air.
It's a bonus.
You meet somebody you wanted to see anyway and then you end up having a great time playing music together.
When a session reaches the sweet spot
Tara:
We've all experienced the highs of sessions.
Have you also experienced situations where breaches of etiquette damaged one?
Éamon:
I wouldn't say destroyed, but they can certainly spoil the atmosphere.
I've seen people get annoyed enough to leave because of the behaviour of musicians or sometimes people in the audience.
But the real high is when a session warms up.
Maybe an hour or an hour and a half in, everything starts coming together.
It clicks.
If you have one or two very good musicians, everybody else seems to lift their game.
You can reach a sweet spot.
Tara:
Maybe the rhythm starts locking into place.
Éamon:
Rhythm has a lot to do with it.
A good rhythm that suits the people playing.
Bounce is not the same as speed
Tara:
Maybe when you have that dancey, bouncy rhythm it actually makes people feel like dancing or feeling giddy.
Éamon:
You could have pipers playing in that Pipers Club style.
They don't necessarily go terribly fast, but there is a lovely steady beat.
It's still very bouncy.
Technically it can be very good and you fit into that rhythm comfortably.
Tara:
There isn't a huge difference between slow and bounce.
There's a much bigger difference between bounce and fast.
Bouncy can feel easy and comfortable.
Fast can become uncomfortable.
When the session speeds away from you
Éamon:
One thing that happens a lot in sessions, and I'm guilty of it myself, is speeding up.
Sometimes people play very fast anyway.
Other times the tune starts at a reasonable speed and somebody begins pushing it.
It could be percussion, guitar or another instrument.
Eventually you're chasing the tune and nearly skipping notes because it has become so fast.
People sometimes blame young musicians, but older players can be just as fast.
Tara:
Giddiness probably plays a part.
And nerves.
Éamon:
Absolutely.
You can start a tune too fast simply because you're nervous.
Going blank when asked to start
Tara:
How comfortable are you starting a tune?
Éamon:
Not very.
I'm very happy following.
I have lots of runs of tunes, but somebody will suddenly say, “Why don't you start something?”
And my mind goes completely blank.
I know an awful lot of tunes by ear.
I don't really read music from the page now, although I learned standard notation years ago through piano.
I can use ABC notation.
But when somebody asks me to lead, I can still freeze.
Starting a tune does not mean carrying the whole set
Tara:
If I ask somebody who is still improving to start a tune, I don't expect them to lead the whole set.
I'd let them get the first few notes out and then I would support them.
Sometimes I act as the tractor.
You know the tractors and trailers analogy.
I'll act as the tractor when somebody needs that safety blanket.
I don't want to put someone on the spot and say, “No. You lead the whole set.”
That is awful pressure.
I didn't like it when I was learning and I still don't particularly love doing it.
How tunes spark other tunes
Tara:
I love when somebody starts something and you suddenly think, “That reminds me of another tune.”
Then somebody else remembers a tune they play after it.
Suddenly it sparks all this excitement.
Éamon:
Yes.
People start bringing different tunes into the run.
I often kick myself afterwards thinking, “I should have put that tune after it.”
Different sessions have different tunes
Éamon:
One thing I find stressful is going between different groups of musicians.
They don't necessarily have the same repertoire.
You start a tune and realise hardly anybody knows it.
Then you're thinking about your second tune and wondering, “What if they don't know this one either?”
So you change direction.
That can be stressful.
Tara:
If somebody asks me to start something in a session I don't normally play in, I usually check first.
I'll play a few notes and ask, “Do you know this one?”
If they don't, I'll try another.
A session is not a solo performance
Tara:
If they don't know the tune, I generally won't play it.
Sometimes they'll say, “No, go on. We'd love to hear it.”
But I don't want to sit in a session playing solo.
That isn't what a session means to me.
I love bouncing off other people.
I can play by myself at home.
Éamon:
The exception might be a slow air.
Tara:
Yes, although there is a time and place for slow airs too.
If somebody casually asks me for a tune in a session, I'm unlikely to suddenly play a slow air.
For me, solo playing belongs on the stage.
Stage playing and session playing are different
Tara:
On stage, I engage with myself.
My fiddle, my hands, my head.
I go deeply into my own playing.
In a session, I'm engaging with everybody else.
That's the purpose for me.
When I enter a session I often think, “What can I add?”
If there are ten or twenty brilliant musicians already there, maybe I add more by sitting at the bar and becoming one of the listeners.
Éamon:
Sometimes I make exactly the same decision.
Éamon:
If I go into a place where I don't know the musicians, I hold back.
If somebody I recognise calls me over, that's different.
Otherwise I might ask, “Do you mind if I join in?”
You can feel that you are on somebody else's patch.
I wouldn't want to barge in.
Paid musicians and closed sessions
Éamon:
There are also places where the musicians are being paid and they don't want other people joining.
If you don't know that, you can easily walk in thinking, “Here's a few people having tunes.”
You generally get a signal quickly enough that they don't want you there.
Sometimes it is money.
Sometimes people are simply possessive of a place.
There used to be more complaints about good musicians giving others the cold shoulder.
I think things have become more inclusive over time.
It hasn't disappeared completely, but I think there has been a change.
Maybe they simply want to play together today
Tara:
There is another possibility too.
Maybe today I don't feel like being a tractor.
Maybe I only want a musical conversation with my two friends.
I'm tired.
I don't have the energy to engage with everybody.
Sometimes I walk into a session and get the feeling that the musicians don't particularly want to engage that day.
I don't automatically interpret that as, “They don't like me.”
Maybe today they just want to play with each other.
So I sit back, listen and respect that.
Éamon:
Exactly.
They're having their conversation.
You hold back from it.
Advice for somebody beginning to join sessions
Tara:
What advice would you give somebody beginning to play in sessions?
Éamon:
Go in softly.
Go in easily.
See what people are playing first.
If you can play along comfortably, fine.
If they're playing much too fast, that can be frustrating.
If you get to know them over time, maybe you can ask if they would mind slowing down.
Or find a session closer to your level if one exists.
But I also think there is value in being slightly out of your depth.
If you more or less know the tune but you're being stretched, that pressure can help you progress.
Tara:
If the standard around you is higher, rising tides can lift all boats.
Éamon:
Absolutely.
There is a great buzz playing with very good musicians.
Sometimes you're following somebody and their rhythm is exactly right.
You start shadowing their phrasing.
You might find yourself doing a grace note you wouldn't normally play simply because of how they're phrasing the tune.
You slot into it.
That broadens the way you play.
You may never play that tune in quite the same way again.
Musicians who make you play better
Tara:
There are a few musicians who make me play better.
I get excited when I see them in a session.
Something about how they play brings the best out of me.
Éamon:
They're probably not doing it consciously.
They're simply playing the way they play.
The change happens in the person receiving it.
Tara:
Yes.
You click with somebody whose playing is almost the next level up from yours and they pull you upwards.
Éamon:
One of the hardest things for people getting into sessions is nervousness.
People say, “I'm too nervous to do this.”
My answer to that would be that you're always going to be nervous.
Everybody's nervous.
Everybody's nervous all the time.
Every performer is nervous.
The best performers in the world will admit to being nervous.
So the nervousness thing...
Just go.
Jump in and go with it.
Tara:
You'll never learn if you don't make mistakes.
Éamon:
And you won't learn if you don't play.
You could sit listening for an awful lot of it, but until you actually start playing, that's when you engage properly with the tune.
Tara:
How do you learn tunes?
Éamon:
By ear.
From CDs, recordings and the radio.
Recording changes the nature of the session
Tara:
People have very different opinions about recording in sessions.
What do you think?
Éamon:
Recording changes the dynamics.
Even though people are used to phones now, once you know something is being recorded, you know this moment is going to appear in another time and another place.
It's going somewhere.
For me, one of the great things about sessions is being completely in the present.
You start playing and everything else clears out of your head.
It's almost like meditation.
You're concentrating on the music.
Learning recordings are different
Éamon:
If somebody says, “Would you mind if I record that tune because I want to learn it?” that's different.
People used tape recorders for that.
The big change now is visual recording.
The image changes things.
Tara:
Tourist sessions and mic'd-up sessions
Tara:
There are also sessions deliberately geared towards tourists.
Paid musicians, microphones, people filming.
I'd see that as closer to a semi-concert.
Éamon:
Yes.
If you have a limited number of musicians, microphones and a set amount of time they're expected to play, that's a different thing.
Would you have microphones at a genuinely organic session?
Probably not.
Negative signals stay with people
Tara:
Have you ever experienced negative vibes towards you in a session?
Éamon:
A few times.
I would normally stop playing, sit for a while so it wasn't too obvious and then slip away.
Tara:
Those things can stay with people.
I've spoken to people who remember comments made to them twenty years ago.
I've been the person who gave the harsh feedback too.
Things I said twenty years ago still sit with me.
So I can only imagine how those people felt.
Sometimes somebody really is damaging the music
Éamon:
But there is another side.
Sometimes somebody or several people are genuinely damaging the session.
Their rhythm could be completely off.
At some point somebody may need to say:
“Look, you're wrecking our heads and your rhythm is completely off. Would you please stop playing?”
How do you say that?
I haven't had to do it and I wouldn't like to.
But I've seen situations where somebody felt the session was being destroyed and simply stepped in.
Tara:
That is very hard.
When one instrument overwhelms everything
Éamon:
I've seen sessions completely overrun by one type of instrument.
It can happen with bodhráns or guitars.
If you have five guitars in a traditional session, they're unlikely all to be doing exactly the same thing rhythmically.
Accompaniment has a very strong effect on the body of the music.
Sometimes somebody has to address it.
Tara:
And often it is simply lack of awareness.
The person may genuinely have no idea this is a problem.
How do we talk to adults about this?
Tara:
Children often receive musical and social feedback at the same time.
“Sit and wait.”
“Don't do that.”
“Only one guitar this time.”
A child often accepts that as part of learning.
It is much harder to say the same thing to an adult.
How do you say, “Five guitars might be too much”?
Do we need to develop better language?
Éamon:
That's a big question.
How do you do it?
And who is the person to do it?
Self-awareness rather than policing
Tara:
Maybe this podcast will help people figure some of these things out for themselves.
I'd much rather have an environment built on self-awareness than policing.
Éamon:
Absolutely.
I'm very much live and let live.
The whole point of sessions is to have different people from different places mixing.
There has to be a balance.
Is there a minimum level of ability?
Tara:
Do people need to reach a certain level before joining a session?
Éamon:
I think there is some minimum point of entry.
You don't need mastery, but you need to be able to handle the tunes at a certain level.
Of course, it depends on the session.
Sometimes a learner is deliberately given a tune and everybody supports them.
I see that happen and it's lovely.
The musicians understand that they're giving somebody a leg up.
There is goodwill on both sides.
Different sessions for different people
Tara:
Is there a place for beginner, improver and advanced sessions?
Éamon:
They already exist.
But it isn't only about level.
It can also be about the kind of session people want.
Some people want mainly tunes.
Other sessions include much more singing.
People of like mind naturally gather together.
Eventually word gets around that a particular session has a particular character.
Improver sessions as a bridge
Tara:
Would you recommend an improver session before somebody moves into a session with very accomplished musicians?
Éamon:
Yes.
It helps you get started and overcome some of the nerves.
It gets you used to playing publicly.
Practising at home and playing in front of other people are completely different experiences.
A session can be as cosy as you like, but you're still playing publicly.
Recreating the session at home
Tara:
Do you think recreating a session at home is useful?
For example, recording part of a real session and playing along with it later?
That's how I learned a lot.
Éamon:
I think that's a very good way to practise.
You're dealing with the actual speed.
You're hearing how people really play the tunes.
You have to react when they change tune.
Sometimes people play a tune three times. Sometimes four. Sometimes more.
You have to hear the first few notes of the next tune and adapt quickly.
That's an important session skill.
Tara:
What does a successful session feel like to you?
Éamon:
Hitting the sweet spot.
You're playing tunes you really like.
The mix of instruments works.
The rhythm is right.
Maybe you're playing beside a very good musician who plays something slightly differently.
Everything comes together.
It's hard to describe.
You simply look back and think, “God, that part of the session went really well.”
Music that challenges you
Tara:
Would it usually be tunes you're completely comfortable with?
Éamon:
Not necessarily.
Sometimes it's a tune I love but still find difficult.
If I manage to play it alongside somebody else who really knows it, that's very satisfying.
Or somebody plays a tune in a way that reminds you of an old recording.
Suddenly you're thinking of hearing Joe Cooley play it years ago.
You feel you've caught the right vibe and beat.
Music for comfort and inspiration
Tara:
The guest question is:
What is a tune or song you've turned to for comfort or inspiration?
Éamon:
Slow airs would be one area.
I also love seventeenth and eighteenth-century music.
The old harp repertoire.
Stuff like Gráinne Yeats' harp recordings and some of the harp tunes Steve Cooney has done on guitar.
I love listening to that repertoire.
Tara:
Would many people know those in sessions?
Éamon:
You'd be surprised.
Most people know the standard ones like An Ghaoth Aneas and Fanny Power.
Then there are some of the older marches and planxtys.
Quite a few musicians know them.
Different rooms change the music
Tara:
Have you noticed that you sound different depending on where you play?
Bathrooms are great!
Churches can be interesting too.
Éamon:
Absolutely.
The materials and surfaces in a room change everything.
I've played in churches and sometimes they feel very big.
The music can feel as though it's disappearing into the space.
Tara:
I find churches give enormous clarity.
They made me change how I played because every little thing became more obvious.
Why house sessions feel different
Éamon:
One place I particularly enjoy playing is in people's houses.
There is something very enjoyable about it.
In a pub, tunes can follow each other quite quickly.
In a house, people stop.
They chat.
They have a cup of tea.
Then they start playing again.
People come and go.
It is outside the institution of the pub, hall or concert setting.
Regardless of whether the acoustics are good or bad, there is something special about playing in a house.
Where the music was transmitted
Tara:
And historically, that's where so much of the music was played.
I was talking to Mairéad Ní Mhaonaigh about this and she gave me some background to the beginnings of sessions in this area.
I'd never asked her those questions before.
That information could easily have been lost.
Éamon:
The modern session may not actually be as old a format as people sometimes assume.
When you think about Dublin, there were places such as Slattery's on Capel Street.
Before pub sessions became established, musicians would also be playing at fairs, weddings, funerals and other social occasions.
And of course people were playing together in houses.
Transmission happened in houses.
Families passed tunes on.
Éamon:
Something I've noticed around Dublin, and this is purely anecdotal, is an increase in the number of sessions since COVID.
Some pubs that didn't have sessions before now have them.
Maybe some of it comes from people working from home and spending less time commuting into the centre.
Maybe people simply appreciated sessions more after being deprived of them.
I don't know.
That would be an interesting question for a sociologist.
But my impression is that something changed.
Tara:
Éamon, thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure talking to you.
Hopefully we'll play some tunes too.
Éamon:
My pleasure.
One line in this conversation will probably resonate with a lot of musicians:
“You're always going to be nervous.”
Éamon isn't saying nerves do not matter.
He is saying that waiting for them to disappear may not be the answer.
You can know hundreds of tunes and still go blank when somebody suddenly asks you to start one.
You can play perfectly well at home and find that your fingers behave differently as soon as other musicians are listening.
You can know a tune but struggle when the session plays it faster than you do.
You can sit beside a musician you admire and suddenly become very aware of everything you are doing.
Those nerves are real.
But the session is also where you learn how to deal with them.
You learn to recover when you miss a note. You learn to recognise a tune from its first few bars. You learn to adapt to somebody else's phrasing. You discover which musicians make you play better. And gradually you learn that being nervous does not necessarily mean you should not be there.
There is another tension in this episode that matters just as much. How do we keep sessions open while still protecting the music?
Éamon is clearly in favour of inclusion.
He talks about people being given a leg up, improver sessions giving musicians somewhere to begin and the importance of musicians from different places mixing together.
But he is also realistic.
There is a point where rhythm, volume, speed or the number of accompaniment instruments can affect everybody else. At that point the question becomes difficult.
Who says something? And how?
Children tend to receive this kind of feedback as part of learning. Adults often don't.
So sometimes the first conversation happens only after somebody is already very frustrated.
That is one of the reasons I keep coming back to self-awareness rather than policing.
If people understand what to listen for, they can make more informed decisions themselves.
Sometimes that means playing, sometimes it means easing off. Sometimes it means asking before you join, sometimes it means finding a session closer to your current level. And occasionally it means sitting at the bar and realising that listening is the most useful contribution you can make.
None of those decisions requires the nerves to disappear first.
Maybe the aim isn't to become fearless in sessions, maybe it's to become informed enough that the nerves no longer make all the decisions for you.
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*Recorded and produced by Tara Connaghan and edited by Anita Alvarez Santos. Recorded in person at the Féile Róise Rua, on Arranmore Island in May 2025.
*Intro music: Live recording of Éamon Ó Ciosáin and Tara Connaghan in May 2025