（以下笔记由张安娜和魏玲整理）
The following content was transcribed by Annabelle and Serena
采访者：谢谢你今天来我们的课。我们这一组会问你跟你跳舞和职业经历有关系的问题。你可不可以告诉我们，是什么原因让你加入CAAM（明州中美联谊会中国舞蹈学校）？
Interviewer: Thank you for coming to our class today. Our group will ask you questions that have to do with dance and your career. Can you please tell us, what made you willing to join CAAM?
沈蓓：是CAAM来请我的。但这很有意思，我也不知道怎么CAAM会知道我。因为那时候我在纽约。我来是因为我孙子出生了，一年后我已经买好飞机票准备回去了，因为探亲是有时间期限的嘛，很有意思的，你知道那个时候到美国来了以后你回去的时候你就要想了。哎呀，那我要给这个朋友送什么东西啊，我要买一个什么送给我的亲戚等等。所以那天呢，我的媳妇，daughter in law, 就陪我到街上去买东西了。回来，我的先生就跟我讲有一个人给你打电话啊。我说什么人啊，从哪里打来电话啊。他说从明尼苏达。。。什么明尼苏达，我从来没听说过什么明尼苏达！因为我说那个时候我们都只知道什么纽约啊，加州啊，什么芝加哥还知道一点，什么明尼苏达。我说我真的不知道这个名字的地方，怎么会有人给我打电话呢？他说我也不知道。他说，不过没关系，这个人说晚上你回来以后还会打电话的。然后到晚上，这个人就打电话来了。他就说你是不认识我的。他说我们这里呢？有很多人很喜欢中国舞蹈，但是没有好的老师。你能不能来给我们做一个十天的workshop。实际上呢？后来我知道我是很感动的，他们这些人呢？因为你们知道我们明州有那个万国节。知道吗？万国节？各个国家都参加，所以叫万国节，但是它有一个条件，就是你要有节目，你自己本民族文化的节目。当时有很多很多族参加了，包括台湾已经参加了，可是中国没有参加。因为中国他们那个时候没有舞蹈节目。你参加以后可以有很多的机会介绍你文化，但是你没有节目就不能参加。所以他们就想请我来排两个节目，他们请我4月来，我回去的票是5月。我想我纽约啊，加州都去过了，都玩过了，这个地方还没有去过。他说我们没有grant，没有钱，我们的board有一张point拿来的不要钱的飞机票，可以给你，送给你免费的飞机票，但是我们没有钱给你。我讲我又不是要钱，到没有听说过的地方去玩一玩, 中西部，而且只有十天, 四月份就回来了。不影响五月份我订的回国飞机票。我很爱玩啊，好啊，我就来玩了。吃住呢，就是在他们board的家里。开始的时候很滑稽啊，你们知道那个 dance studio都是大的玻璃窗，好不容易请我来了。我跑到教室里，只有十几个人，很少人。可是一看呢？外面那个玻璃窗上面全部是脸，这个脸从下面到上面，下面是小小孩。按着年龄往上面，一直到大人全部贴满了脸，我也不管他，反正十几个人就十几个人吧。第二天又来了五六个人，第三天，外面的脸越来越少，里面的人越来越多。到第七天，那个President就来跟我说，大家非常喜欢你，希望请你做我们的 artistic director留下来。这就是我刚才讲的。我说这不行，我没有做这个准备，我也没有跟我妈妈讲这个。所以这就是我刚才讲的我打电话去问妈妈，是妈妈给我下的这个决心。他们这批人确实对中国文化非常非常的执着，我很感动，我也很高兴跟他们合作。
Shen Pei: CAAM asked me, which was interesting because I was in New York at the time and didn't know how they knew me. I had come to the United States to visit my grandson and had already bought a return ticket to China. On that day, my daughter-in-law accompanied me for shopping, and when I returned, my husband informed me of a call from Minnesota. I had never heard of Minnesota before and wondered why someone would call me from there. The person said they would call me back that night. Later, the man called and explained that there was a demand for Chinese dance teachers in their area and asked if I could come for a ten-day workshop. I was moved by their request because they didn't have dance programs representing China at the time for the Festival of Nations, an event where different countries showcased their ethnic cultures. They wanted me to arrange two shows for the festival. They offered me a free airplane ticket but couldn't provide financial support. I didn't mind and decided to go to the Midwest for the experience. I arrived in April and stayed for ten days before returning with my airplane ticket for May. They provided accommodation and meals. When I arrived at the dance studio, there were only a dozen people inside, but outside the glass windows, there were many faces. More people joined the workshop each day, and on the seventh day, the their president told me that they hoped I would stay as their artistic director. I hadn't prepared for such a commitment and needed to consult with my mother. I was impressed by their passion for Chinese culture and delighted to cooperate with them.
采访者：下一个问题，请问你是怎么通过舞蹈来教中国文化的？你可以举个例子吗？你认为用中国舞蹈来教很重要吗？
Interviewer: The next question is, how do you teach Chinese culture through dance? Can you give an example? Do you think using Chinese dance to teach is important?
沈蓓：这个问题我很想问你，你们两个学过中国舞，不知道你们对中国舞是什么样的感想。我只讲讲我是怎么样做的。我不是讲我小的时候是根本没有中国舞蹈的概念的。中国的舞蹈工作者，把中国舞蹈从无到有建设起来，我本人正是参加了这个全过程，可以说我这一生就是为这个而奋斗啊。那么我现在可以讲，我认为中国舞蹈是全世界，我不能说最，不能说唯一，但是我可以说是非常非常rich的一个宝藏。中国舞蹈。你想想，中国有这么长的历史，过去就有著名的舞蹈和舞蹈家，像杨贵妃呀，赵飞燕呀！唐朝是全世界第一个有了专业的舞蹈学校，中国还有五十六个民族，每一个民族都有它自己的舞蹈。新疆舞, 西藏舞啊，朝鲜舞啊，这么丰富，是吧。我觉得是应该跟世界来分享的。而且呢？刚刚我女儿已经讲了，我觉得舞蹈是一个文化交流的最好的途径，因为它没有语言的隔阂，它通过 body language，可以互相非常容易沟通。当然你学中国舞，你本身也已经是接触中国文化了？但学几个舞和通过舞蹈来学习中国文化，那个又是不一样的。所以呢？我想我到这里来是为了传播中国文化，所以我对现在这一般很流行的，我叫它拼盘式的这种做法，像春节晚会唱啊，跳啊，凑在一起，对于你真正要传播中国文化，不是一个最好的方法，因为什么都有，看完以后观众留下来的印象就是碎片化的。
所以呢，我在一来的时候就定下了一个十年的计划。每一年集中讲中国文化的一个方面，要讲就把它讲透，讲得深入。比方说有一台节目叫“风”。英文的讲不通的，叫“Wind”。在中国呢？风就是文化风俗啊，这方面的东西。比方说中国人怎么过年啊，比方说“Mid-Autumn”，这是什么意思啊，比方说这个元宵节去看灯啊，我就有一个看灯的舞啊。比方说夏天的时候，这个到最近我请我的美国朋友吃饭，他们说好好吃啊，这是什么东西呀，我从来没吃过。什么东西，你们知道吗？藕，也就是Lotus的root。这个在美国是很少的，是中国特有的生活，所以我在夏天有个节目就是去采藕挑藕。
然后结婚是怎么样的啊等等。那另外一个在下一年的一个题目叫“融。”什么是融呢？“融化”的“融”。就是讲：我们中国五十六个民族的文化，通过舞蹈来表现怎么样融合在一起成为中国的文化。再有一台节目叫”脉”。脉络的脉，就是讲中国的历史是怎么发展的。通过秦朝的舞蹈是怎么样的？汉朝舞蹈是怎么样的？唐朝舞蹈是怎么样的？宋朝舞蹈怎么样？让大家通过观赏这台舞蹈晚会对中国历史有了解。就这样一年一年做下来效果非常好。大家对我也很肯定。很多人讲同样的节目不知道为什么，我们看了沈老师的晚会就印象深，就比看其他的晚会记得牢。明白这个意思吗？因为你放在一个大的文化的背景中，就印象会深，对中国的文化理解就会更深入一点。这是我讲我的做法。
Shen Pei: I would like to ask you both about your thoughts on Chinese dance since you have learned it. I will share my own perspective first. As I mentioned earlier, Chinese dance was built from scratch in my youth, and I have dedicated my life to its development. In my opinion, Chinese dance is an incredibly rich treasure. With China's long history, there have been famous dances in the past. For example, during the Tang Dynasty, Lady Yang established the world's first professional dance school called Liyuan, which gained global recognition. Moreover, China has fifty-six ethnic groups, each with its own unique dances such as Xinjiang dance, Tibetan dance, and Korean dance, which showcase the richness of Chinese culture. I believe this treasure should be shared with the world.
My daughter recently mentioned that dance is the best medium for cultural exchange because it transcends language barriers and enables easy communication through body language. I see myself as a promoter of Chinese culture. While I acknowledge the popularity of dance shows that feature a mix of various elements, such as the Spring Festival Gala, I don't consider it the best way to truly promote Chinese culture. After watching such shows, what lasting impression do you have? Although every program may have some elements of Chinese culture, how much does the audience genuinely learn from it?
Therefore, when I arrived here, I devised a 10-year plan. Each year, I focus on introducing a specific aspect of Chinese culture and delve deeply into it. For example, one program is dedicated to "wind." What does "wind" mean? In English, it may not make much sense, but in Chinese, it encompasses culture, customs, and related concepts. So, I discuss various topics such as how Chinese people celebrate the New Year, the significance of the "Mid-Autumn" festival, and the tradition of lantern viewing during the Lantern Festival. I even have a dance performance showcasing these aspects. In the summer, I recently treated my American friends to a meal. They found it delicious but had never tried it before. Can you guess what it was? Lotus root. It's a rarity in the United States, but I have a dance performance in the summer that depicts people picking lotus root.
I also explore wedding customs in China as another topic. In the following year, I focused on "Rong." What does "Rong" entail? It means integrating the cultures of China's fifty-six ethnic groups into Chinese culture through dance. Another program is centered around "Mai," which refers to the pulse of the veins. It delves into the history of China's development through dance, highlighting the dances of the Qin Dynasty, Han Dynasty, Tang Dynasty, and Song Dynasty. This approach allows people to learn about Chinese history in an engaging way. Many people have mentioned that after watching my gala, they remembered the dances more vividly compared to other shows. This is because I place them within broader cultural themes, leaving a deeper impact on Chinese culture. This is my explanation of my approach.
采访者：中国舞蹈有多少不同的舞蹈风格/有哪些特点？
Interviewer: How many different dance styles/what are the characteristics of Chinese dance?
沈蓓：中国舞蹈风格？这个就很难去定义了，一个很大的题目，因为中国舞蹈风格有民间舞风格，有古典舞风格，有各个民族舞的风格。但是我认为，如果说从另外一个角度讲的话，就是中西舞蹈的比较的话，我觉得有这么些特点。第一个特点就是中国，因为是农耕文化，和这个西方的文化有一个很大的不同，农耕文化，它的特点是亲近大地，收敛含蓄。芭蕾最具有代表性的一个动作，就叫 arabesque。那个脚恨不得离开大地。可是你看亚洲的舞蹈，朝鲜舞也好，中国舞也好，你们都学过的，都是比较稳的在大地上。然后中国和西方对人的本身的看法，也是很不一样。西方是比较物质的，人就是肌肉骨头什么什么。所以西方你看那个希腊的雕塑，每一个肌肉都要那么的清楚是吧。中国认为，人最主要的则是“气”，是你内部有这个精气神，它 support 你成为一个有 life。这口气没有了就没有了，这个物质的东西也是没有了。所以呢也是一样道理。我就刚才说了，西方来讲起来，是一个动作，这个动作就是代表这个....(表演动作）。我刚才讲西方的舞蹈, 就是...(表演动作）。不知道你们有没有学过讲中国舞的代表。我们很难讲哪一个动作。但是我们讲这个云手。你们知道太极拳吗？这就是中国不一样。是这个流动是这个流动的过程，这个也是很不一样的哦。
正因为西方的思维是分析的物质的，所以他表现的是准确的表现这个客观的物质。比方说我要画一幅画，我要把你很清楚的（画出来）。肖像画，所以要把一个人画得很像很像很像。中国不一定，对吧。中国有很有名的故事，就是说一个皇帝叫一个画家去画这个长江。那么美，他就去了。西方的画家，很多时候是要坐在那个地方，看着那个山，然后这个山的样子画下来。但中国那个著名的画家，他去跑了一圈回来，皇帝问他：你的画呢？他说：“都在这儿了”。都在这儿，就是说都在我的心里了。然后皇帝说：“那你赶快画出来啊”。他回去，两三天就画出来了，画很大的画。这个画，是不是每一个地方都跟长江旁边的风景是一样呢？不是的。懂我意思吗？不是说隔多远有一座山，隔多远有一条河，不是的。这是我心里的长江。我看了以后，我感觉到的长江，只是说这个客观是反映我自己艺术家的内心的。当然我这只是讲大的方面，不能讲每一个具体的艺术家。每个人有每个人的看法想法啊。我最近开了一个展览。我的画展有一些是画我父亲的，但是里面没有一幅画是画我父亲的肖像，因为我觉得我的父亲肖像，我拿照片出来就可以了，是画我心里对父亲的感觉。我画了很多山，我觉得那些山就像我父亲的品格，那么崇高。他是我心目当中的父亲。
Shen Pei: Chinese dance styles are a complex topic, encompassing folk, classical, and various ethnic dance styles. However, if we compare Chinese and Western dances, we can identify certain characteristics. The first difference lies in the contrasting farming culture of China and the island culture of the West. Chinese dances, including Korean and Chinese dances, tend to have a more grounded and stable quality compared to what you have learned in Western dance forms. Another distinction between Chinese and Western cultures is their views on human beings. The West tends to be more materialistic, focusing on the physical aspects such as muscles and bones. This is evident in Western art, where every muscle is depicted with great clarity, as seen in Greek sculptures. In contrast, Chinese culture values "Qi," the inner spirit that gives life to a person. Without this vital energy, one ceases to exist. To explain it in Western terms, it is like a movement representing a particular essence. For example, consider the movement of "cloud hands" in Tai Chi. It is this fluidity and flow that differentiates Chinese dance.
Western thinking tends to be analytical and focused on accurately representing objective matter. In China, there is a famous story of an emperor who asked a painter to depict the beauty of the Yangtze River. Western painters often sit and sketch, capturing the exact shapes of what they see, such as mountains. However, the Chinese painter approached it differently. He immersed himself in the experience, ran around, and when asked where his painting was, he replied, "It's all here, in my heart." The emperor urged him to quickly paint it, and within a few days, the painter created a large painting. The depiction did not precisely match the physical scenery of the Yangtze River. Instead, it represented the artist's subjective interpretation and emotional connection to the river. This highlights a significant aspect of Chinese art, where personal perception and the artist's inner world shape the artwork. It's important to note that not every artist feels the same way, as each person has a unique perspective. In a recent exhibition, I painted my father, but none of the exhibited paintings were literal portraits of him. If I wanted a portrait, I could simply take a photograph. Instead, I aimed to convey my feelings about my father. I painted mountains that symbolize his character and grandeur, as those mountains resonate with my perception of him. This is the image of my father in my mind.