以下采访笔记由付涛和雷丽丽整理
The following content was transcribed by Thomas and Joli
采访者： 您是怎样学习英语的？移民到美国后，您是否获得过当地政府或是华人社区的支持？你得到了哪些方面的支持?
Interviewer: How did you learn English? In what ways did you receive support after immigrating to America?
沈蓓：我在抗战胜利以后，回到上海，我进了一个很有名的的学校，美国的教会学校。所以我很早开始读英文，有两个方面。一方面，虽然我逃难的时候，没有机会读英文。但是我很有运气的事是：我的大姑妈是一个著名的翻译家，她教我英文。然后我到这个学校以后，这个学校所有的英文的课本都是美国印制的。1946年就开始学英文了，有中国老师也有美国的老师。但在英文课的时候，无论什么情况都不讲中文。不管你懂不懂，都是讲英文的。就是等于像母语一样来教。但是我有另一个很不幸的地方，就是14岁的时候我就离开学校了。
所以我很多同学大部分都进了外交部，国家的外交部，要不就是做了英文教授。所以他们的英文在中国的程度都是最好的，而我的很差。但是你知道你小的时候学的东西很奇怪，虽然不用了，因为后来没有机会用了，但是当你到这个语言环境以后，有的时候不知道什么地方又会跑出来了。不过语言对我来说还是一个很大的问题，英文好的话我还可以做得更好。我来的时候专门去成人学校念了一年半英文，可是后来越来越忙了。我的舞蹈学校刚开始的时候大约有30多人，可是一年半以后，我已经有一百多个学生了，我一个人要教那么多的学生，没有时间读书了。什么办法呢？我的办法就是在生活当中学习，特别是接触最多的是舞蹈学生。我当时就跟他们讲，作为交换：我教你们舞蹈，你们教我英文。我的英文程度很差，我讲得不对地方尽量给我指出来。你们知道谁是我最好的老师吗？成人会说，“啊，你已经说的很好了，你讲的我们都听得懂就够了” 。然后所有的青少年有的时候说几句改正我的话，也会很不好意思。最认真的老师是哪些最小班的小朋友。我说，我教你们舞蹈，你们可以教我英文。他们非常认真，每一次只要讲了一点点不对，他们会说：“错了” 。比如：我想买一个车叫 “Buick”, 我们中文叫“别克”，“Bui-ck” “Bui-ck”。一定要讲到完全对才行。他们是我最好的老师，所以在学校学习了一年半以后，我就开始向我的学生学习。但是到现在我的英文还是不好，幸亏你们都懂中文，不然我就没有办法跟你们讲得这么深入。我相信我的英文好的话可以做更多事。
Shen Pei: After the victory of the Anti-Japanese War, I returned to Shanghai and enrolled in a renowned missionary school funded by the United States. This provided me with an early exposure to English. There are two aspects to this: during my escape, I had no opportunity to learn English, but I was fortunate that my eldest aunt, a famous translator, taught me. When I joined the school, all the English textbooks were printed in the United States. I began learning English in 1946, with both Chinese and American teachers in the classroom. In English class, we were expected to speak English regardless of our understanding level. It was like learning a native language. However, I had the misfortune of leaving school when I was 14.
Most of my classmates went on to work in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or became English professors, so their English skills were the best in China. Mine, on the other hand, were poor. However, the knowledge acquired during one's youth is peculiar. You may not need to use it because there's no chance to do so later, but sometimes, when you find yourself in a certain situation, you realize its relevance once again. Nonetheless, I still need assistance in this regard. If my English were better, I could do even better. When I arrived here, I attended an adult school to study English for a year and a half. However, as my dance school grew, with the number of students increasing from 30 to over 100, I had to teach them all by myself, leaving me with little time to study. So, I decided to learn English through life experiences, particularly with the dance students with whom I have the most interaction. I made a deal with them: I would teach them dance, and they would help me with English. My English could have improved, but I need someone to point out my mistakes and correct them. Do you know who my best teachers are? The adults would say, "Oh, you said it well. We understand what you meant." On the other hand, the teenagers would sometimes correct me. I would apologize and say, "I'll teach you dance, and you can teach me English." So, whenever I said something wrong, they would say, "Wrong!" For example, if I wanted to buy a car called "Buick," which we pronounce as "bieke" in Chinese, they would help me say "Bui-ck" correctly. They are my best teachers. After a year and a half, I've been learning from my students. However, my English is still not good. Fortunately, all of you understand Chinese, so I can communicate with you. I believe that if my English improves, I will be able to do more.
采访者：谢谢，我们的下一个问题就是当您刚来美国时，是否收到过文化冲击？您受到了什么样的文化冲击？您是如何克服文化差异的？
Interviewer: Thank you so much for your response. Our next question is what was the culture shock like when you came to America? How did you overcome cultural differences?
沈蓓：我真的没有感受到文化冲击。许多人都说受到了歧视，我还真没感受到。为什么？我觉得如果你觉得他歧视你，你就做出成绩来，他就没什么话好说了。我很多地方还是觉得不是歧视，而是相互的不理解。我到这里来，很多人对中国非常的感兴趣，但是我也发现美国对中国人很不了解，比中国对美国的了解差。美国人自己以为他们什么都知道。好像，“你们的情况就是这样子”。 在这些方面，我觉得我到这里来的目的就是通过我增加两个国家之间相互沟通。如果在这个中间一些因为相互不了解而产生不同的看法就是需要我的地方。比方说，我觉得我很多的朋友对我有很大的帮助。我刚刚来的时候，开始的时候非常的困难，然后很多人指手画脚的。我有一个朋友是明大的教授，当时他是我们这个舞蹈社的board。他就说，如果我们这儿的人都懂 的话，为什么要请你来。就是因为我们不懂， 所以要请你来。就可以是education tool.
有一次，我们向State Art Board申请grant,那是2000年，是新世纪的开始，又是中国的龙年，特别有意义。所以我创作了舞剧《龙的传人》 这个节目有很深刻的内涵。做非常的好。我们去申请的时候，让我们演一个小的片段。我们演的也特别好，所以认为一定会给我们。 结果，很让大家 suprise 的是，他们给了一个印度舞团，没给我们。很多人就很不高兴，说歧视我们啊，怎么怎么的。因为我们明显的比它好。我说这是什么歧视啊，印度也是亚裔啊。 对不对？然后，问题在什么地方。我们就觉得， 许多美国人很喜欢中国，但是他们希望中国是他们想得那个，古老的，一直不动的中国， 你们懂不懂，这个东西叫古董，古董懂不懂？ 就是很老的这种器皿，瓶啊什么，就是那些老东西，他们觉得， 嗯，这样才是中国。是吧， 你稍微变化一下，他就觉得我们不应该改变。他们希望中国永远不要进步啦。 对不对，不可能的啊。中国也要进步啊。我们的艺术也要发展的。那次为什么给了印度舞？ 印度跳的那段，就是完全原来的样子。一点都没有改变，所谓的印度的古典舞。不改变的。但是我们的这个节目，有很新 的创造。在编舞方面有很新的想法。但是我们的idea完全来自深刻的中国传统文化，那天演的是舞剧中关于中秋的一段。中秋知道吧，中秋，Mid-Autumn, 中秋节。在中国传统中是一个思念的节日。通过月光照到不同的人， 在大陆的，在台湾的，以及在海外的，大家都是龙的传人，在月亮下面互相思念。 所以这个idea 是非常中国的，但是在编舞上是很新的。 他们就喜欢印度那个原封不动的样子。然后，我们就主动的跟 State Art Board联系，我们希望和他开个会。这个会是从来没有开过的。哎？ 这个就是美国好的地方。他们非常高兴，马上召开了这个会，请不同的亚裔艺术家，包括 Cambodia, 越南，泰国的都来。由每一个艺术家介绍自己文化有什么特点，我们的想法是什么。这样进行沟通， 这是从来没有过的。后来，State Art Board，就非常感谢我们，其他这些艺术家也很感谢我们。这么好的机会让我们学习，早就应该由我们来召开这个会。没想到是你们提出来， 帮助我们做这个事情。我只是举一个具体的例子。
移民应该主动面对文化差异的问题。要说关于移民，我碰到的问题到不是这方面。当时我留下来，是办的O，特殊人才， 知道吗？ 我等的时候 不能做事情。这段时间很困难，因为你不知道能不能拿到。刚刚申请，一个礼拜以后就有人找我。说：“我们知道你啊，在中国受了很多苦。共产党文革当中把你们家搞得怎么怎么， 完全知道，所以我们马上可以给你政治避难。懂吗？马上可以就有身份。虽然当时还不知道那个 O身份是不是 一定能拿到的。但我立刻说No， 现在是你们来请我，不是我来求你。我虽然有受到政治迫害， 但是不会用这个来交换利益。
Shen Pei: I did not experience culture shock. Many people claim to have faced discrimination, but I personally did not feel that way. Why? If you achieve success, those who discriminate against you will have nothing to say. In my opinion, it is often not discrimination but rather mutual misunderstanding in many situations. When I arrived in the United States, I noticed that while many Americans were interested in China, their understanding of Chinese culture was not as extensive as the Chinese people's understanding of American culture. Americans tend to believe they know everything, saying things like, "That's how it's done." This made me realize that my purpose for coming and staying here was to foster better communication between the two countries. I was needed to bridge the gap created by different perspectives due to lack of understanding. I have found many friends who have been of great help to me. Initially, when I arrived, it was challenging, and many people pointed fingers. However, I had a friend who was a professor at the University of Minnesota and also on our board at the time. He said, "Why would we invite you here if everyone here already understands Chinese culture? It is because we don't understand, that's why we invite you." It became an opportunity for education.
Once, when we applied for a grant from the State Art Board, we believed our program had profound meaning and was well-executed. We thought our performance was perfect, with excellent acting. To everyone's surprise, the grant was given to an Indian group, not us. Many people were disappointed and wondered what went wrong. Can I say this was discrimination? No, because India is also an Asian country. So, what was the issue here? We felt that Americans viewed China as a fixed entity. They liked Chinese culture but expected it to remain unchanged, like antiques or old artifacts. They did not want to see any changes. However, China needs to progress, and our art needs to evolve. The grant was given to Indian classical dance because Americans preferred the traditional aspect of Indian culture. In contrast, our program featured new creations and innovative choreography. Our idea revolved around the Mid-Autumn Festival, a festival of nostalgic remembrance where people from different places, mainland China, Taiwan, overseas, think about their families under the moonlight. It was a very Chinese concept but presented in a new choreographic form. They preferred the India (traditional dance) as it is. In response, we took the initiative to communicate with the State government. We proposed a meeting, which had never been held before. This is what makes this country great—they didn't hesitate, immediately organized the meeting, inviting Asian artists from Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, and other countries to participate. Each artist introduced the unique characteristics of their culture and our respective thoughts. Such open communication had never happened before. The State government expressed gratitude, and the other artists thanked us for initiating this dialogue. It was a valuable opportunity for us to learn, and we should have held such a meeting much earlier. This is just one specific example of how immigrants should approach these relationships.
I also want to mention my own experience with immigration. When I arrived, I needed to apply for a green card as a person with special talent. However, I couldn't work while waiting for it. It was not an easy situation, and I didn't know if I would be successful. Shortly after submitting my green card application, someone approached me. They said, "We know you suffered a lot in China. I am aware of what happened to your family during the Cultural Revolution and the persecution they faced. Therefore, we can grant you asylum status immediately, and you can obtain a green card right away. The O-1 path might not work out for you." I declined their offer, stating that I was not here to beg for it. Although I have experienced political persecution, I will not use it to exchange for personal gain.
采访者：您认为当时选择移民到美国是一个正确的决定吗？ 如果您可以选择重来一次，您会做同样的决定吗？
Interviewer: Are you happy with your decision to immigrate to America? If you could redo anything, what would it be?
沈蓓：我想是的，我呆了三十年， 应该是证明这一点的。虽然这个选择让我失去了很多。文革当中都不可以创作什么。等到文革完了以后，就是说后来编了舞，得了奖之后， 又编了很多节目。到那个时候，又到了top 的层面. 所以，我来的时候，我的本子上写了很多回去要做的事情。因为我是探亲来的。所以我一直准备再回去。比方说我有一个舞剧。香港就有意思要请我们这个舞剧到香港去演出。我还有两个独舞，中央电视台有意思要来录像。到中央去放。这个对一个艺术家来讲是很大的机会。而我到这里来一切从头开始很困难， 什么都没有。 没有人懂中国文化，你要从教小孩子这样搞起。而你那边有的机会却要统统放弃。这个当中你要balance。从现在看我还是认为值，因为那边的事很多人在做，而这边是垦荒，是开创性的，更有意义，更需要你。
Shen Pei: I stayed for thirty years; that should prove it. Although this choice caused me to lose a lot, nothing could be created during the Cultural Revolution. After the Cultural Revolution, I choreographed dances, won awards, and later created many programs. So, at that time, I reached the top level once again. When I came here, I made a lot of plans for when I would return. I was here to visit my family. So I was always prepared to go back (to China) again. For example, I have a dance performance. At that time, Hong Kong expressed interest in inviting us to perform there. I also have two solo dances, and CCTV is interested in filming them. This is a great opportunity for an artist. It was difficult for me to come here, and there was nothing. No one understood Chinese culture, and I had to start from teaching children. It also required sacrifices. Among all of this, balance is necessary. From my perspective now, I still believe it was worth it, because many people were doing things over there (in China), while here it was pioneering and more meaningful, and it needed you more.