Vivienne Dick

Vivienne Dick is an experimental feminist filmmaker currently residing in Dublin, Ireland. She began her film career in 1970s New York and is considered one of the formative members of the “No Wave” film scene. She is known for shooting her first films on Hi-8 and Super 8 with her friends in the "No Wave" music scene, namely Lydia Lunch and Pat Place amongst others. She has since incorporated digital video into her experimental works. She is a strong believer in anti-hierarchical film practices and considers her work to be highly feminist in nature. Her newest feature film, New York, Our Time will delve into the lives that she and her friends lived in the 70s as well as how each person has evolved as time has passed.

Anika Hess: Hi! I guess I’ll just start off by asking you - do you consider yourself a feminist filmmaker? And if so, what does that mean for you specifically?

Vivienne Dick: Yeah, I would consider myself a feminist filmmaker… and I don’t believe that reduces my status as a filmmaker just because I call myself a feminist filmmaker. Sometimes, you know, that has appeared in the past, you know what I mean? But my work is almost always concerned with women and is from the perspective of a woman, which I am. I’m interested in the politics of feminism so therefore, yeah, I would consider myself one. From the very beginning, any of the films I made were from that perspective. I’m interested in women’s affairs and how women are positioned in the world.

AH: Yeah, I think as a woman, whether you’re trying to do that or not, it comes out. You have to. You have to consider that.

VD: Another thing is that a lot of the time, most of the people in my films are women. Not one hundred percent, but most often. And that was a definite decision on my part, because all my life I had seen women on margins and anyone who was a bit feisty got killed off. So I just said, listen, I’m just going to make films the way I want to make them and not be worried about whether they’ll be acceptable to everyone or not. Of course, when I began making films, it was a very small operation. It was Super 8 and it was all done at home. It was… no budget, you could call it really. I was really just making those films for my friends and whoever else was interested. It was like that.

AH: How did you get into filmmaking? I mean, you see all these musicians and artists in your films so obviously that was inspiring to you. But why film specifically?

VD: I think maybe partly because, I’m not so shy now, but I used to be quite shy and slightly introverted and, you know, if you’re behind the camera as a photographer or a filmmaker, you’re kind of safer that way. Although, really, one of the things that I think I’m good at is allowing people to feel comfortable when I’m filming. I don’t direct them, “you do this, you do that, sit here, sit there,” or anything like that. I sort of just wait and listen. Often, the work is, you could call it, a collaboration. Really, we discuss whatever it is we’re trying to do and I would listen to what they might want to bring to it. I don’t usually work with actors. Very rarely. I have a few times, but not often.

AH: I’m very similar actually. That’s kind of how I got into filmmaking because I found that if I was somewhere where I was kind of uncomfortable, if I had a camera, it was like I had a reason to be there and interact with people. It’s kind of spiraled into other things now and I’ve been getting into writing and scripts and that kind of thing, but that’s where it started.

VD: It’s really great if you can let it develop in its own way and not let it feel like you have to do it a particular way. When you go to film school, you’re taught to do it in a certain way. You’re told this is right, this is wrong. Luckily, I was aware at the very beginning that I didn’t need that. Later on, I learned a lot about sort of traditional filmmaking techniques, but I felt that it would be better for me if I began making films without that particular training. I could just be developing my own voice. The films were so small budget-wise, and there was so much going on around me that was experimental that I felt free to make experimental work because everyone else was doing it around me.

AH: In your early work, like Beauty Becomes the Beast (1979), how much of it was you just being around really interesting people and having conversations and filming them and how much of it was planned out like “let’s film this today,” etc. ?

VD: It was all planned out. It was all set up. We had to decide what particular location we were going to film at each day. But, say if there were a few people in the scene, it wasn’t planned out in that much detail. But it would be planned in the sense that everybody would be there and they’d know that I was making a film which created a sort of performance element. So yeah, it would be a little haphazard, but the people who were in were called upon to bring something to it. The music that was performed or whatever it was, it wasn’t me saying: “okay, we’ll do this” so much. It was a little bit of that here and there. But it was a real mixture of contributions from the others and my ideas.

AH: Pat Place and Lydia Lunch [two women in the 70s NYC punk music scene] were in many of your early works. How did you meet them?

VD: That happened because in New York, I got interested in what was happening in the music scene like with CBGB. I was particularly interested in the bands that Pat Place, with the Contortions… that was my favorite band actually, and Lydia’s Teenage Jesus. So I used to go to their shows and we got to know each other that way, because I was always there. I asked Pat and Lydia if they’d be in a very early film I made, and that was partly wanting to get to know them better. It was just going to be one roll of film that I was going to shoot with them and that turned into Guerillere Talks (1978).

AH: In your more recent work, with larger budgets and larger productions, how do you feel about that in comparison to your earlier works? What was your process in increasing funding? What prompted your move from the Super 8?

VD: I love the Super 8, but as you know, people started working in video so I began working in Hi-8 to begin with. I suppose the editing becomes easier when you move onto video and you have more choices with regards to what you can do with the sound. There were a lot of gaps. I wasn’t making films all the time. There was a gap when I had my son. I would make a film every now and then… a few in 16mm film and then video and then a mixture of film and video. As I got older, to my surprise, all the early films started to be shown more. People were requesting to show them quite regularly. All that happened at the start and then it stopped. So I was living in England and I was applying to the Arts Council there and they were very supportive. So when I moved back to Ireland twenty years ago, I wasn’t able to get support from the Arts Council because they were old fashioned in the way that they approached film and they demanded a script and I never had a proper script. I never used them. I don’t use them as a description of what I’m trying to do. But that’s okay with them now and they’ve been incredibly supportive here. I’m also seen as an older, senior experimental filmmaker here so I’m very well treated, I have to say, very well treated. Luckily, in Ireland, there still is money for this kind of work. We’re so fortunate… and this is public money. So yeah, you do feel a kind of responsibility one way, you can’t be, just because it’s public money… I don’t really believe in making films to please everyone. That’s impossible. It has to be something you want to make but you put everything you can into it. You have to take chances with it because if you don’t, it’s just going to be kind of bland, you know? You have to take a risk! You have to risk that it’ll be a complete disaster.

AH: Why did you initially go to New York and then why did you decide to move back to Ireland?

VD: When I moved to New York, Ireland was a difficult place to live if you were a woman. It was a bit antediluvian, to be honest. You can’t imagine, I couldn’t even begin to tell you what it was like actually. So, I hadn’t really been thinking much of New York but I’d lived for a while in Paris and I lived in Germany for a year and I was spending periods in London and then I don’t know what happened. Actually, what happened was, I met this man who ran a gallery and I think he was collecting work by Jacques and I remember him saying, “Oh, New York’s a great city for women!” and I remember thinking, “Really?! Is that right?” So anyway, I moved to New York and it was right in the middle of the recession there which was fine by me. I’ve always had so little money so I was always able to get a small job, find a place to live, and have loads of time off, because that’s how it was. It’s completely different now, of course.

AH: Yeah, it’s crazy now! Everything is so expensive. Being an artist...being a person can feel impossible sometimes.

VD: It IS crazy now. I just made a film in New York. A new feature film called New York, Our Time which is kind of looking at the period when I was there and now. I filmed people that were my friends when I was there and them now, as older women with children of their own… some of them. A variety of them. So that’s kind of two layers of time. It’s not just my friends gossiping, it’s also about the various social issues to do with housing or to do with time passing, getting old… those kinds of things.

AH: Are you completely finished with it or are you in the editing process?

VD: We just finished. The film is finished so we just have to make DCPs. The first screening is going to be at the Dublin Film Festival on March 2nd. I hope to bring it to New York. I'd love to show there in September in the festival if possible.

AH: How long have you been working on this particular project?

VD: Oh, over a year. We started filming in New York last April over about a week but I was doing a lot of work at home preparing for this, I mean really for months. The timeline was prep - one week shoot - back home - one week shoot - back home again. It was done really quick; I had to hit the ground running when I landed in New York. It was a very small crew.

AH: Wow, that sounds intense. Can you tell me about your shooting process for this film? What kind of images were you going for?

VD: We were very lucky. It looks great, it’s all full of color and I used filters. Orange filters. The city is a character in the film. New York is so huge and so busy, what are you going to film?! So I wanted just to select certain architectural things, shoot it into the subway going into Manhattan, for example… with this orange filter going across the river, so beautiful. So it’s kind of nineteenth century New York and twenty-first century with the tops of all those buildings. We went down the side streets with a car, filming with the roof down, filming up at the buildings. We went on the highline with sped up cameras so yeah, it came out really quite interesting. It has a lot of archival footage too, rolls of film I forgot I had, just lying in a box for 45 years.

AH: What was it like to see all of your friends again for this film?

VD: It was great to see them. In fact, making the film gave me a chance to reconnect with them again. I mean, of course I visited them before but it was nice to really spend time with them again. They were wonderful. The film couldn’t be what it is without them. Also, someone I knew for many years, Declan Quinn, who is quite a well known cinematographer, was able to shoot it. He was great. We’ve known each other for an awful long time and we’ve always wanted to make a film together, so now we’ve done it!

AH: How many people usually work on your films?

VD: Well, it depends. Some of the short ones you saw, Augenblick (2017) and Red Moon Rising (2015), that would have been a small crew with camera assistants and lighting crew. Usually about 8 people. So not a large group, but if you’re using that equipment and if you’re using lighting, you have to have a crew. So that’s been a change for me. Getting used to that in my more recent work, experiencing that, there’s been a learning curve.

AH: I can understand that. I’ve been working on forcing myself to ask for help. It has been something that I’ve really struggled with in the past. I’m finally realizing that I can’t do everything by myself and trusting people to help me makes things work so much more smoothly.

VD: It can be really great because it makes you communicate with them; you’ve got to be able to explain what you’re trying to do. You’ve got to not be afraid to do that. It’s just so amazing when it works and when people get on the same wavelength with you. You work as an organism and that is a wonderful experience. If anyone is pulling against it, that’s a disaster. It has to be there with you for it to really work. They have to have input to help you.

AH: How has your creative process changed from when you first started making films?

VD: I made the last few things with a crew and a bigger budget but I still love working on a small film with just myself. After this new film, which is the biggest film in terms of size and length that I’ve ever made, I’m perfectly happy to make a two minute film that’s just completely me shooting and editing. I have nothing against that. But it is nice sometimes to have input from somebody with music or sound. That’s always really nice.

AH: What advice would you give to young feminist filmmakers?

VD: I’d say, not to be afraid to jump in and just to do, because you could have all these ideas in your head and you could talk about it forever, but the scariest part of all is going out there and just stepping out with camera and doing it. The thing is, the idea you have in your head starts to change as soon as you start doing it. It takes over and you’ve got to be ready for that! Every stage, it’s going to change but that’s the way it is, it’s normal. You have to embrace that. I also think that it’s very important to have an audience. I think it’s much stronger if you can work with a group of your friends who are also making their own films so you can screen the films for each other and work out ways to get them to a bigger audience. Working on your own film in isolation is going to be so much harder. There has to be communication and conversations. You have to work with other people.

AH: I think you would really like the Feminist Filmmaking class that I’m a part of right now. It’s been incredibly eye-opening and community focused. We screen our films for each other and give feedback. It’s been really great.

VD: There’s other schools around the world that are doing the same thing. If you could somehow share your work with other places, that would be a great thing to do.

Anika Hess is an undergraduate student at UC Santa Cruz studying Film & Digital Media and History of Art & Visual Culture. She is currently a freelance photographer and videographer but is focused primarily on pursuing a career in writing and directing films.