Signe Baumane

Interview By: Rebecca Kate Honkanen Ackroyd

Born in Latvia and immigrating to the United States in the 1990’s, Signe Baumane has been writing, directing, producing, animating, drawing, and voice acting in 15 films. She first started creating stories when she was a young girl in Latvia by submitting poems, short stories, and essays to newspapers. After graduating with a BA in Philosophy from Moscow State University, she started working in animation as a cell painter in Riga’s Animated Film Studio. Moving to New York City let Signe explore creating independent animation films covering a range of topics such as sexuality, gender roles, family roles, depression, and expressing the internal state of a person’s mind.

Her films have been shown in over 300 festivals all over the world. She recently received the Guggenheim Fellowship in 2017. Her first feature length film, Rocks in My Pocket (2014) was granted a 100% score on Rotten Tomatoes. It was submitted as the Latvian entry for Best Foreign Language Film at the 87th Academy Awards, but was not selected.

She is currently living in Brooklyn, New York with her life partner and is currently working on her second feature length film, My Love Affair With Marriage which has a slated release for 2019.

This interview was recorded by Skype, on November 3rd, 2017, with Rebecca Kate in her bedroom in Davis, CA. Signe in her studio in Brooklyn, NY.

Rebecca: First of all thank you very much (for joining me today), I hope you are having a good day.

Signe: No, no, I am having a terrible day. Had a terrible week. My wallet was …, it was really stressful. ..(but) … I mean, it's okay. Its life, that’s life. I just wanted to work on my new film, and now life interrupted my plans. I want to show you my studio.

Rebecca: Oh that would be wonderful Thank you!

Signe: Here is the paints and also the little corner. And you see here the trees. I make them.

And there is a cat house, looks like a cat. Made from paper mache, I have to paint it. I don’t know if you can see the people. And so then, there's a real palm tree in the corner. And then there’s another tree over there. I am painting the ground for park..There’s real plant and then there is a skeleton. For a project, we are putting together a skeleton, an anatomically correct skeleton.

There (are) more trees. There's a real one. And here, this is from the new film, I don’t know if you can see the little carousel?

So we are gonna shoot hopefully tonight. After my partner arrives. And here is the shooting room. This is where we shoot the backgrounds. This one, I put down the light one. It’s a school hallway. We attach camera on the orange thing and that's how it happens. So yeah, up here is the storage room, where I stored things from Rocks in my Pockets, background, the houses. Yeah its pretty much it.

Rebecca: Well I still enjoyed being able to see where you’re working. I saw Rocks in my Pocket and I saw one of your preview pieces for your new film you're working on, Love Affair with Marriage. Do you shoot it like stop motion? Do you shoot the background first and then hand draw the characters on to match it up? Or is there a different way you go about it?

Signe: Yeah, we shoot stop motion backgrounds like photographs. Like stills on our camera. Then I print out some of the pictures for reference and animate them on paper. And then I put them together in After Effects. So it’s kind of, I mean I’m kind of surprised not more people do this kind of technique more. Like, I mean, Rocks in my Pockets has been out since 2014, people said they don't know any other film like that, but now it's 2017 and you would think there would be a person making similar film. But I haven’t heard about that. So...

Rebecca: With that, do you feel that 2D films have more potential for talking about the subject matter you covered in Rocks in my Pockets? Or is there going to be a lag because of how 2D is being seen as for children here in the United States? What are your thoughts on that?

Signe: What do you mean 2D?

Rebecca: … hand-drawn animation, like two dimensional.

Signe: I mean in general, in the whole world, because Disney kind of hijacked the medium. For me, animation is a medium, it’s not a genre. Somehow, Disney and Pixar turned it into a genre. Like, you know, Meaning, “this is animation. This is for children”. So when you go on the street, you know you ask people, or you ask any person on the street what is animation. They say ‘oh the things for children, right?’. When I was telling people I was making a film, an animated feature film about depression - People said ‘oh children have depression too?’. I’m like, “this is not for children,” it’s not, it's just a film.

So, for me, it's like confounding why, why people don’t understand that animation is a very sophisticated form of storytelling. And it requires an adult mind to decipher the meaning. It requires extra work, so why is this just for children? So Now I think it is a marketing strategy they did in the 50’s. Before that, the first animated film, actually the first films of all, were animation. You know, the first moving images, they were animated, they were not film. Then the first film came in, and it was actually animation. Then later on, it just developed in this live action thing. Animation was not considered as a genre for children. Then suddenly, around 40s-50s. You know it was effectually in used in the second world war as propaganda: anti-war propaganda films for adults. Suddenly somewhere between then and now, something happened.

And I’m furious, because, you know how you talk about this country going stupid. This country is becoming more stupid. Animation can address this problem, if it was allowed access to adult eyes and brains. You know, you started me. I’m going to stop now otherwise I will rant for the rest of the night. So, anyway.

Rebecca: Oh it's fine, even though I am American, I am not blind to my country’s faults. Like I am an animator, an amateur one. I haven't had long works yet. I was interested in how animation could play into gender identity, how it could be properly expressed, with live action I feel there are some limitations. Since you said that animation is a genre,

Signe: It’s a medium

Rebecca: It’s a medium, I apologize for that. So, with Rocks in my Pocket for an example, how did you use animation to approach the themes that were discussed in that film?

Signe: Yeah, well, you mentioned that animation has great potential, and that live action has great limitation. I see a lot of live action films, and get lot of inspiration from camera work in all of that, cause that is what I have to do in my film. I see the limitations, cause in live action films, you can only show what is happening on the outside. You know, the person can say what they feel but it is not going to be shown. They are going to try to express what they feel, but its images in live action reality. Animation can freely move between internal and external worlds and you wouldn’t even know. You can cross into the internal world and take someone on a journey inside the characters train of thoughts seamlessly. There is no stop, you just step in and go on the ride and boom, step off. You know, I find it really amazing way of doing things. For me animation, is a pretty powerful means of storytelling.

…when I started Rocks in my Pockets, it was narrated by me,

it was the whole thing narrating, I was telling a lot of things. And it was a little bit like manic whistle, I'd have to say. And it was told from a very strong point of view. It was a person's point of view, no one else's point of view. That was the point of view of this particular person.

And you know, some things were shown the way they were described, but some things were added and seen little bit differently. There was always the tension between the spoken word and the image. I like the tension. The whole thing I do is the tension. What you see and what you hear. There is two different things. In America, there is the whole thing of showing everything you hear, it has to be exactly the same. Because otherwise it would confuse people and they don't know what to think about it. That is why you get stupid people. No one is using their critical thinking.

You see a book and the book says, mommy sat down on the bed and told a fairy tale to a child and you see mommy sitting on the bed holding a book. I mean, if you asked me to illustrate that, I would have so many different images, so many surreal images of how mommy is doing this and what is going on. So if she is asking who she is. So, that is what intrigues me, the tension between the spoken word, between images and spoken word. That is where I thrive. But, yeah, the whole film Rocks in my Pockets was based on, or built on a personal point of view, that was expressing the internal state of mind.

Rebecca: When I was watching your film, there were a lot of references to Latvia going through USSR occupation, I was just curious, how much of your work is a balance between formal research and your own imagination? Since you mentioned that you could have a whole bunch of different images that can fit with whatever you are animating it to.

Signe: You know the history of Latvia is real, I didn't want to tell it, but you can't really tell the story of a character unless you place them in a certain context.. So when I was animating, there is a part - Second World War, and it was a very complicated situation for Latvia. And there’s a text: in two minutes I told the whole thing of how the Second World War went for Latvia.

First there was Russians took over Latvia, then there were Germans took over, then they were out. You know there was a whole thing. It was a complicated for a small nation to be squeezed between two superpowers, there is so much history.

Like the family in middle of forest. When Russians, when Soviet Union, occupied in 1940, they sent 50,000 people from Latvia to Siberia. And, uh, there are huge lists of people who were supposed to be sent out. And my grandfather was on that list, because he was an entrepreneur, a property owner, he was, you know, considered good standing, he wasn't Soviet lawyer. So, he knew he was on list, someone told him he was on list, he packed his things, waiting to be arrested. He waited for two days and they didn’t come. It turned out the people who were supposed to come and arrest him got lost in the forest, the forest was too deep. It was an interesting detail in one of my drafts, but then, what the story is about, is it about Latvia, or is it the characters who suffered from inexpressible and irreversible pain?

I kind of had to stay focused on the story. But, when I showed the film in Latvia, every single Latvian knows their history inside out, and they will argue and say they know this thing or that thing. They get bogged down by detail. It's hard to tell the history. I live in New York for twenty years. When I tell my American friends Latvian history, I know they will fall asleep to all the details, so I tell basic facts of Latvian history.

So the Latvians’ Latvia, I was nervous to show it to them, but they said ‘oh my god’ it's a history of Latvia and very concise way, you know this happened and that happened. It was bad for the characters were living in this.

So you know anyway, your question was about something else.

Rebecca: No it was, so basically, how much of your work is formal research and your own imagination, that's just what I wanted to ask you.

Signe: History? or in general?

Rebecca: I mean like family history, research into specific topics, and mental health, and the specific designs that you put for your characters, like the fashion of the time. What is your balance between your own story and like making sure you are adhering to facts, I guess is what I was trying to ask you.

Signe: You know, my thing is that I don't really believe that facts add up to a story. Right? You know, meaning that, story is a story. And that story tells deeper truth that goes beyond facts. And I was not doing documentary, although it is based on real life events and my experiences, I mean, it was shown in documentary film festivals, because it has this real-life event thing. But, I feel that if you really stick to facts, you can get bogged down by facts.

Because you see, getting in and out of mental hospitals is a lot more complicated than getting out one time and getting out another time. And you know, so how many little snippets of life events you gonna put in there. You have to go for the essence. So in the essence, what happened? That's one thing, I always go for essence.

I do know it is my point of view. I know it is my single point of view and if another person could look at the same events from a different point of view and disagree with me, and say no no no this is not how it happened. But because it's a personal film, I can only have one point of view. I am not going to even consider every single point of view looking at it. From the start, I say this is my point of view.

So now, that said, here you are, I am glazing over some facts and I mean, I am organizing facts, dismissing some, focusing on others, highlighting some things that are important to me. I am also filling the gaps in order for me to make my grandmother Anna more human. I had to put in my own thoughts, to project something on her.

So when she is standing by her window, looking out the window and her husband is looking at her and thinking “why is she looking away from me”. I don't know, he doesn't know. When she is looking in the water, she sees the water spirit trying to get her to drown, what is she thinking, right? And when she had to kill the rabbit, she has to kill the rabbit. And the text said, ‘the realization grasped her heart, you can be free if you let your children die.’ I mean, that scandalized some of my relatives; they said What do you think? What do you know,? How dare you? I mean, yeah, I put on her something, otherwise she would just be an enigma. But I feel I know her because I am related to her and I do know her, and that was my free artistic license. I took that liberty when I was talking about her.

Rebecca: When you were talking about your own history with mental health, has it made any part of your work, or communication within the animation community in New York difficult when you revealed that part of yourself?

Signe: No, no. If anything I can make jokes now, like when people ask why didn't you do this, why aren't you helping me more? I say ‘what do you want I am mentally ill’ and that shuts them off. My neighbors make noise and then they say I think you are crazy and I say ‘I don’t disagree with you I think I am crazy I made a film about it’. It is amusing and disarming all of the attacks. And I guess you wanted to ask if my family took it differently.

Rebecca: Yes, you talked about your family's history in Rocks in my Pockets. But the question I was trying to ask is, right now with the Harvey Weinstein being exposed and a lot of women being able to come forward about behaviors they had to face when they’re working, mental health is starting to be a bit more freely talked about in public spaces and more understood. I was kind of trying to ask if with your film Rocks in my Pocket, has that positively affected you being able to talk about mental health with people here or has it been harder in any way?

Signe: No, I would say, if it had a yes or no question, then it didn’t, no, I don't see any hardships or anything. But, I have to say in Latvia it was a big scandal. In Latvia, they don't really talk about these things, you know, so the film kind of started the conversation. Then there was a wave of people who tried to be brave like me and tell their bosses or be more open about mental illness, and they would send me Facebook messages or emails ‘i got punished’ I got let go’. In my case, I am my own boss, I am an artist, I am my own producer I do whatever I want. And also I raise money on kickstarters through The Marriage Project.

When you are revealing your sufferings, people relate to you more, they understand your struggle and they want to help you in this country. But let's say you are working in a corporate job in a corporation, and the corporation is unfeeling to your suffering and all they want is a profit and they don't want you to skip work and don't want to assure your mental health problems and pay your medicine. I can see how revealing to a corporate boss that I have a struggle, can do harm. For me, since I am an artist, no.

Rebecca: ah

Signe: I am expected to be crazy as an artist. Right?

Rebecca: When you're an artist you have free reign.

Signe: I don't’ drink or do drugs, don’t smoke marijuana and I am well behaved so something has to be wrong with me.

Rebecca: Haha, that is a fair point. So, when you say you are your own person. Does that go into your definition of being an independent filmmaker? Or do you define being independent in a different way?

Signe: No, well, independent in another sense is when you are working outside of studio system. That is the definition of independent. You work outside studio system. But I am even more independent than independent. Because I produce my own films, I do not need a producer. I team up with a small group of corporate producers. And my life partner, he is a co-producer with Rocks in my Pockets and this new film. Together we find money and apply for grants and hustle on kickstarter. We have another co-producer in Latvia, Roberts Vinovskis / Locomotive Productions. It is a small intimate film, it is a strong personal mission. It is an art project, it’s an art film.

I showed you my little studio, most of the work I do myself. I write, direct, I animate, I make backgrounds, I shoot backgrounds. It’s like, however, become a more pure art vision. One person's vision, even with a studio system, produced out of studio system. When the artist loses control, the studio comes in and they say you need to have some chase scenes to make it more exciting. So suddenly an artist loses control of his or her vision. And in my case, when I was working with small producers, I had an uncompromised vision. I wanted to see my vision fail.

Rebecca: I watched one of your speeches that you gave when you were showing Rocks in my Pockets. You mentioned that you had some encounters with producers who told you that you needed to cater to the male audience with different films you made. Could you elaborate a little more on that?

Signe: No, I don't do that stuff. The moment they say cater to male audience, young male audience, it is like a big white whale. I don't know white male, I don't even understand it. There was this point in 2007, when big HBO was asking me to present them some ideas, and I did and they were like ‘no we have to cater to our male audience’. And I’m like “okay, let me try,” and then they were like “nah nah nah” and they said “I don't think you get it”.

I don't know if you saw my Teat Beat of Sex.

Rebecca: I did

Signe: So It's kind of ironic cause they wanted to hire me for Teat Beat of Sex, and then when they got me, they forgot what Teat Beat of Sex was about, said ‘Can you make women with big boob and big asses’, and I was like,” it just doesn't make sense. You want me to do stuff from Teat Beat of Sex, and Teat Beat of Sex was from a female point of view.

So, from then on, I don't do commercial work. Every time it happens, invitation happens, and it falls through. So, I don’t worry about getting commercial work and just do my own work and hustle money and keep working. I don't need to do commercial work, why would I?

Rebecca: Yeah, what differences are there between raising money in the United States versus raising money in Latvia for your projects.

Signe: Yeah well a big difference is there is a European system and American system. Europeans believe in government and they believe that they should support these programs. Art and culture is one of these programs. So, there is a big tradition for hundreds of years to give money to arts from government. There is a comprehensive program of grants. And now there’s European Union, there’s more grants than ever. And then the Europeans claim it is drying up.

I mean, I am not part of the system, I have a Latvian producer. But it is a basic description of system. In United States, the people don't believe in government, and art needs to survive on its own, and so there are private organizations. There are state foundations. Basically, it is in hands of individuals, in personal giving. Or investors who believe that your film is going to make money, and these grants are very notoriously hard to get. I applied for Guggenheim eight times and I just got it. And I heard people were turned down. It’s like, it's very very hard.

Anyways, what it leaves people is two systems. European system, when you apply for a grant, you are not gonna write in your application ‘ I wanna make a film about a fucked up pussy wanting to fuck every single dick’ no, you are gonna write something beautiful like ‘this film is going to be useful’ of ‘this film is going to be most beautiful ‘ of ‘this film is an abstract depiction about physical processes’ it has to be tasteful. The thing about government grant money is that films made on that money have to offer some value to public because they are made on tax payers money. They have to serve public good. So most likely proposals that include profanities or sex will not be given grants because government entities that give out these grants have to be responsible.

We saw that in 1970's in the Unites States when NEA used to give grants to individual artists and some of those artists did crazy experimental things and Republicans attacked the NEA and almost took its funding away. Now NEA application process is very cumbersome as a result.

So that, you see a lot of films coming from Europe that don't care about audience at all. All they care is about self-expression. Having weird images, I kind of like it: The freedom of artists. In the United States, on other hand, most of animators make films using their own money, short films. They say “okay, I work freelance jobs and I finally collected twenty thousand dollars, and I’m going to make this film on my own.”

I mean, why would you make you make a film on your own with twenty thousand dollars and not try to make money back. You have to justify it to your family, your parents. You say this film is going to be a pilot for a TV series. So, I am going to make a bigger project, it is just a smaller part. You delude yourself and you delude our relatives and then suddenly you are making this film and then something happens, you make another one and nothing happens and you give up on it.

I see brilliant careers in this country and most amazing people make their most amazing first films and then they vanish, They make one movie and then they disappear, either they are hired by corporate to work a stupid TV show, or they got married and have a child. Their wife or husband says hey you gotta stop this nonsense, or you just get tired out, you put in all this money and nothing happens.

So, the difference is that Americans’ short films, animated films - they do care for audience because they know that if you get audience you’re gonna live a long and healthy life. Meaning, if they love your film you may cash in on it.

So these are two polar extremes, and a lot of American filmmakers produce abstract films that hard and unable to comprehend. So that is the difference between American films and Europeans films. That is how funding is different.

Rebecca: Why do you depict sex in your work? Why is it important for you to talk about it and to animate about it?

Signe: I don’t know, sex is a lot on my mind. I think about sex every...nine seconds. No, it is important. I can’t forget, it’s like a stone in your shoe, a little pebble in your shoe. Like Oh my god, I can’t really walk, or I can walk but I can feel it. To me sex is like that. Sometimes I wish I didn't think about sex so much, and then I will not think about it and wonder why I am not thinking about it.

But I made my first three films in Latvia, on Latvian grants, and I had to apply for grants, and that is where I was ‘oh you had to make it for common good, it has to be tasteful’. But I was always interested in the things people don’t talk about. Like, everyone tells you about marriage, how beautiful it is, but then reality is like, kind of not so great, you realize or ask, is it me or why doesn't anyone tell me why. You want to tell the unsaid part of life.

So, when I came to the United States, I did not have grant system. I made Love Story, in 1998, on my own money, it is a three-minute short and it was a film that has sex in it. And I was free to make it. I was like, I don't have to apply for a grant or put in awards. I can do anything I want. And it was very liberating.

And then, I made a film about dentists cause I go to dentists a lot, and I’m from Eastern Europe and my teeth are very bad. I made a film about that. So, I just make films about what is exactly on my mind. One time, around 2006, I noticed a pregnant woman on street. I freaked out seeing pregnant woman, and I wondered why. I wrote and developed ideas about pregnancy and made a film about it. Being afraid and birth. So, yeah, I don’t see why you can’t make a film about what's on your mind. And sex is on my mind, and so were dentists, and pregnancy and thousands of other things.

Rebecca: Do you feel with your depiction on sex, that it's caused any people to talk about sex in a positive way?

Signe: When people ask if things are difficult after you make a film: I made Love Story, and they were the first sex films I made. People in New York community, which was supposed to be liberal and open minded: they said “you are a sex fanatic”. And in the international community, people would put me down. I would go to festivals and I wasn't taken seriously. And then I made a couple of other films, and they said “oh you can make that kind of film too.” And I said “yes I can make this film and that”. I think times changed a little by 2007, people were exposed to more sex positive things, so Teat Beat of Sex was greeted with a wave of positivity. I think people were ready for sex from a woman's point of view at that point.

Rebecca: How would you define feminism then? Do you see yourself as a feminist filmmaker or a feminist in any way? With how you’ve made your work and how it’s showing women in a bunch of different situations in animation?

Signe: Feminism is like a sock, it's like tights, meaning it can fit a lot of different things, and you know, it has bad, people trashing it as a curse word. And recently in Poland - Poland is really conservative - people were liberal, but still kind of confused. They ask all sorts of questions, In a Q&A after Rocks in my Pockets: I was asked ‘would you call yourself a feminist; it's a loaded question in Poland. How do you answer it? Of course, my first impulse you say “yes and shut up.”

But then I want to formulate what feminist means. Cause to a lot of people it is a bad word and I said to them, “If you believe, like me, that if women have rights to equal pay as men, then women are equal in front of law. I will not be excused for my crimes because I am a woman. I would not accept that. I want to be punished for the same severity as a man for my crimes. And paid equally”. And if that makes me a feminist then I am a feminist.

You know there is of course more to it, the reward and the punishment should be equal. That’s kind of what I believe. Oh, but you know, feminism is more than just that. I would not accept the word feminist applied to me for a long long time. But slowly in the last ten years, it grew on me. And now, after all the election madness I am proud to be feminist. I put on my door on my studio the little symbol of woman power thing, you know. I had an opportunity to see Wonder Woman for free, special screening, but I went and paid cause I wanted to see her succeed in the role. I wanted my 19 bucks go to her box office success.

I believe that women are letting each other down. Too many times. We don't even recognize that. I am attuned to it. In the last two years, how we managed to let each other down I recognize my behavior and I recognize other people’s behavior. I am going to work towards betterment of women. In my studio, Rocks in my Pockets, I hired women. I am not saying I discriminate against men, but women come to my studio and I give them a chance. And I teach them, you know, a lot, sometimes just fresh out of school. But this is part of what I should be doing you know.

Rebecca: Yeah, you know that's very admirable of you. And it is very understandable. My grandmother was one of the first lawyers in Rhode island way back in the 1940s when women weren't able to get any jobs. So, I was raised in a pretty feministic kind of way, but I didn't know if that word applied to me. Until recently with the election.

Signe: Yeah.

Rebecca: Do you think with President Trump in office right now that more female filmmakers will be showing their work in protest against him?

Signe: I don’t know, I mean, it's so depressing, I wrote the script for my Marriage Project, before elections, and we started to cobble together all the SAG actors. And then the elections happened and I canvassed for Hillary every weekend in Philadelphia, “we can't let it happen”. But it did happen, I was like, god if Hillary gets elected and my film which has women ideas. It's going to be irrelevant because we will have a woman president. And suddenly, we don't have a woman president, then the film because very very relevant.

I do think woman are energized in a way they weren't energized before. And the filmmakers were so sad. Film Fatales, that is a group organized to help each other. I am organizing a once a year here, in my studio, a gathering of women: Animation Ladies Potluck and we sit down and we talk and discuss where we would like to be and what our obstacles are and how we can help each other. Like once a year we do that.

But as to your question I do think people are working on something in response to the election results. Maybe not direct response, but just telling women's stories and getting more out. I think there is awareness. And now with the Harvey Weinstein scandal:, I think the Harvey Weinstein scandal happened because we couldn't take Trump down but we took somebody down. I think it is a good sign this is happening. The power structures are not working for us. I think it is time that something changes.

As an animator, I can say that Hollywood is in the middle: it's the center of the industry. Now the Hollywood movies, the big ones, the million productions, but what, only two women can be there in the circle. Meaning only a few women can be in the middle. And around that circle, are independent films, and there’s only few women directors. And then around that independent films circle there is documentary films, it's on margins, and that has a lot of women directing documentaries, there’s this grand system, having to get grants and if you are a minority one way or another you get a grant. And outside that circle is independent animation like me. Like that is where I am, I am like way outside the circle. When I went to Film Fatale, I have been to these ladies, the Film Fatales, where, they ask me ‘What do you do’, I say ‘I am an animator’, and they are like ‘Can you animate in my documentary for free?’. They would lose interest. And I was outcast in outcasts. I am lucky though.

Rebecca: Do you think animation will step out of that whole dismissed type of notion that people hear ‘Oh you're an animator’ and you're dismissed, do you think that will change?

Signe: If we have more and more independent animated feature films dedicated to serious subjects, then we are going to get somewhere. So when we will have, you know, more independent feature films, and that is because en mass, when we just, we create enough films, than we can break through.

Rebecca: For the animator and the audience, how do you propose bridging the gap between the audience and the animator for when they’re showing their work ?

Signe: What do you mean?

Rebecca: … the festival in Poland, I read on your website that it was a way to bridge between audience and animators, to try and have two sides being able to come together to meet and watch stuff. Do you think other festivals like that are steps forward? Or are there other methods that can be done?

Signe: No, I mean the festival in Poland, that was a different festival, there was another one. The one I mentioned before it was in Poznań, and the other one was in Krakow. It's alright. The Krakow festival, it is, the animators get to meet the audience, and talk, and show your process. So, I think that is great.

But I don't think that will change anything. That is a very specific thing, But I think the thing that matters is if we had a couple of really amazing animated feature films that are for adults, like for example there was this film called Persepolis, it was hugely successful. If we had Persepolis every year. Every year there would be a film called Persepolis, people would talk about, hearing about these amazing animated films, and they would say it’s amazing and never forget.

Not films like Persepolis would pop up every 10 years. People forgot. That's why I said we need to have a mass of good independent films and then one of them I hear breaks out you know. I mean, I don't really have hope for my films. I have a very particular, I don't think my films are for mainstream. I’m a bit weird. I like, you know, whatever, they are too artistic. But if there is appeal to mainstream audience, we just need one film like that a year, and that would be, that would break the stigma.

Rebecca: Yeah, I. I like that idea, I think, I mean, few of my friends and I, we are studying animation in different ways. We haven't had the chance to create anything yet but I want to collaborate and produce something later on. I was gonna ask, How difficult is it then for you to distribute your work, since you said your films are very artistic compared to a lot of mainstream type of stuff that has been released? How do you distribute? Like how difficult is it?

Signe: It is very difficult, I almost died doing it. It's very stressful.

But, we had, luckily, from my short film times, I had a friend who is distributing shorts, and then he distributes features, he does it in Poland and he is very knowledgeable, very expert, and he does it around the world. He does it in festivals and does it in sales.

In United States, miraculously, we got a signature, Zeitgeist Films, which is a well-respected team of distributors. We were very lucky about that. But we kept the rights for digital distribution because digital distribution is really worse for you to not do it yourself. The money that comes in. If the distributor takes 50%, so you get no money. We kept digital distribution, and then question is how to do marketing.

That is difficult to manage and this was in 2014, when this whole thing was changing, and there was this platform, that platform, and it as a whole and the dust settled down. We have this work of platform like Amazon and iTunes and for me, Vimeo on Demand is the way to go. I love Vimeo on Demand, and I would never make the mistake again to put the film on iTunes or Amazon and somewhere else. It is just ridiculous to even think about it.

But Vimeo on Demand works pretty well because they have a discovery tool, where if someone watches the film, they get a suggestion to watch film, if they watch my film they get suggestion to watch other films. People get suggestion to watch other films they didn't know about. And, it is pretty great.

Rebecca: That is pretty fantastic. How, you said that your film, that you are working on, its planned release is 2019, so are you going to feature it in festivals first or try to release it on Vimeo so you can have more widespread release and be able to earn money then give it to film festivals that you were interested in?

Signe: No. It doesn't make sense. No, people talk about simultaneously release, it worked for more famous people or established distributors and I think Amazon has a couple of films they did that with, they got in trouble and people boycotted the films.

No, you do festivals, then theatre, then online. The reason is, because no one is going to write about your film unless there is something, unless in news, or theatre, locally. And then they write about your film locally or internationally and then after that, people say ‘I heard about the film’, but I never had the chance to see it. And they go to Vimeo on Demand and see Rocks in Pockets and say I should check it because I heard about it. If people haven't heard about it, why should I watch it? No one will watch it. There is nothing from Rotten Tomatoes, no reviews, why would anyone want to touch the film that no one talks about? Thousands of millions of films that no one talks about. You know what I mean. Are they worth watching? Maybe some, from the millions there.

Rebecca: With critics and reviews, have any of your reviews been harmful for you trying to get your work out there because I know that by statistics showing that many people who review films are men and not really women. Have reviews worked favorable for you and your work or has it been hard?

Signe: Well I mean. The film premiered in Karlovy Vary International Film Festival, there is a lot of reporters going there. I imagine, I was told that during the four years I was making the film, my best friends, my acquaintances, by every person I know, that making a film with my voice is a horrible mistake.

‘It's a horrible voice over’, ‘You are making mistake of your career’.

So I had deep doubts about the film. I thought people were going to spit on it, throw me in the trash, they were gonna kill me with reviews. So, with the press screening with Rocks in my Pockets, I couldn't even be there. I was fainting. I couldn't be there. There was a big premiere with two thousand people watching the big screen. I was thinking the whole time, thinking of stress. The next day reviews came out in Variety and I think The Hollywood Reporter, The two reviews. And I said to my partner, ‘I am not reading them, you must read them and tell me’. ‘Because I can’t’. I was so sure they were gonna trash it. They were gonna put a fork in my eye, you know.

He read it and said ‘Oh my god! You should read it! It’s really good!’ and it was Alissa Simon's from Variety, who wrote like amazing review. And then I met her later in the festival, I was grateful to her, and that changed everything. The first review comes out, and everybody kind of gets influenced by it.

Like, what do I say about this film, it's a strange film, very bizarre. But she said ‘this is the most amazing film of the year’, and people are like what, ‘well she knows’ and she is a very well respected reviewer. And I thought that she connected with this film because she was a female. And she probably exaggerated a little bit to be supportive of a female filmmaker. She was really enthusiastic and I think that really helped a lot. We had amazing reviews all over, and I think on rotten tomatoes we were 100% for a long long time.

Well it's not a lot of reviews but still it’s flattering. So, what I wanted to say is, there was one reviewer in Spain who trashed it. He was a blogger, he just really trashed it. He said it was a horrible. I mean, I don't read the negative reviews because it's not helpful. But according to my partner, he trashed it and didn't understand it and he didn't like the voice.

He said everything I thought people would say. But then, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, the reviews are very good. But, it partly helped you know. Cause we were able to boast on good reviews on Facebook, and it was part of our marketing strategy. It filled seats in New York, they originally wanted it to be two weeks, then they extended to three weeks, then four weeks and six weeks. They were surprised, but it was about depression, and the good reviews helped.

Rebecca: I guess one of the, I mean, we've been going for an hour and I know you need to leave but I want to ask one final question if that was okay. With Rocks in my Pockets, you shared a very personal part of your history and yourself. But you still managed to make it a story that's shared. When I watched it, I found a lot of parts relatable and was very touched by it. But how do you find that balance of writing a story and putting yourself into it? Is my question. And you are making films like this.

Signe: Yeah, I mean that is a good question. I don't think there is a balance. You just put 100% you know. And then suffer the consequences. I mean, when I made the film, wrote it, recorded it, in every step I was a writing it and I was thinking that I was telling it to a really good friend, that I trusted this friend.

It’s the same way I thought the Teat Beat of Sex stories. I didn’t think of the people who would judge me, I didn't think of the people who would dismiss me. I didn't think of the people who were gonna scorn me. I just thought that I was telling it to a friend who understands and who gets it. And, I guess that then, the people who don’t get it, they are free to walk out. I mean, a lot of people walk out of Rocks in my Pockets. There are people who connect and there is a whole journey in that film. And the film takes you on a trip you know.

But that's how I dealt with things. That said, you pay, after the film you do pay your price. I mean, my family denounced me, many people were upset, my extended family, not my immediate family. And then people criticizing my voice, through making the film, you can't even imagine, best friends, friends who you really trust and they come and say your voice is terrible and you are making a big mistake. So, you know you have to kind of trust that there is one person you are making the film for. The people who don't believe in you, they are not it.

Rebecca: Yeah, no of course. Huh.

Signe: I wanted to add I feel that there is one thing I wanted to add. Gender and elections and all that. On my blog I did a review of The Red Turtle, you know the animated feature film.

Rebecca: Yeah it was released last year I think

Signe: Yeah, so Michaël Dudok de Wit, he was an amazing animator and I found it very sexist in a basic way. Did you get the chance to see it?

Rebecca: Yeah, oh.

Signe: Yeah, I wrote it and when people came to check it, it was the first one to check it for some reason. They find it for some reason. It was done just before elections, and I was very hopeful, I said ‘it wasn't really helpful in helping to see women in a new way as leaders’. It was sticking to the old stereotype. The whole women being the nature, eternal, ever living, the animals force, I fucking hate that shit. But you know, that said, it was a nicely made film, but the idea behind it was so patriarchal. It was, we have to change it.

Rebecca: We do.

Signe: We have to change these stereotypes. We have to change the stories we tell each other. We have to change the attitudes towards it, and like what the fuck. Sometimes people would comment on it, ‘Oh but it was beautiful that she was this eternal red turtle’. But I would say ‘Yeah, remember he beat her and beat her on the beach. And when he saw her as a beautiful lady he wanted to fuck and they have a life together?’ It was beyond. You know, anyway, anyway, we need to create a newness. New things, new ways of looking at this male female dynamic. So that is all I wanted to say.

Rebecca: It is said in your background that you studied Philosophy when you were in University. Do you feel with changing the myth for femininity and masculinity, is it helpful to try and understand some components of philosophy if you want to try and create something or is it not really needed? Is it an advantage you have?

Signe: I don't know, I can't really separate myself. I like right now, you know, I couldn't say that this part of me is because I studied philosophy, this part of me is because my mom hit me three times, you know, I can't separate them, it's all part of who I am. And philosophy definitely gave me, it's a tool where I am able to look at things, or I have desire to look at things. An ability from a distance and I see the connection between one thing and the other. So it is kind of like, I always say that studying philosophy was the best thing that ever happened, because it gave me perspective that people who didn't study philosophy don't quite have. But creating myths, you don't need philosophy, you read a lot of fairytales and read a lot of myths and think about what is the myth.

I mean all the myths been reckoned or created by people, and they did not study philosophy. Just let me organize this mess of the world into one narrative that will make sense and what is happening in society. And that is where this super power comes and that is where you know how women find a place. Where women have roles: women, wife, whore, virgin, it is ridiculous.

But it's like, okay so when you say that is poor roles. What is? What would I like to see a woman? And in some ways it's like amazing that there is this Wonder Woman, right, meaning, a Wonder Woman and she was not sexual. I mean she was, but she didn't have to flirt to get what she wanted. Right, and she didn't have to be coy and all weak and pretend. She could be her, and save the world, be innocent and powerful at the same type. It's a new one. It's not a mother or wife, it's a woman on her own, I don't know, I just think about these things.

Rebecca: I enjoyed Wonder Woman when it came out. Do you think that with Wonder Woman and other films that have come out recently that there is going to be a change for how women are portrayed in media, that is changing now or that there will start to be a change?

Signe: No, I don't know, it's not, I mean, they pulled out attacks in Hillary in the last race, attacking Hillary again for what. I mean, women are not unified in how they are gonna be portrayed. I mean it's like, some woman, they like established things. They know the rules of this patriarchy, they know to pretend to be weak and to dress certain ways they can get their way much better, their sexual power, They understand how to operate in this world.

So it's like, in the TV shows, when they show Sex in the City, women in high heels and short skirts, is it helpful to women? No. It really wasn't helpful to women, it really stress’s the way you look being important and that show is so influential. Like I came to New York in 1993, no 1995 sorry. I don’t watch TV, I started to see these women come in high heels and they can't walk and they are dressed up. I was like ‘Where are they coming from?’ And then suddenly they started to sleep around, because before that they didn’t. And it turns out it’s Sex in the City, which was written by two gay guys and you say ‘oh that's interesting’.

And then and then, it wore itself out, like it took 8 years, like 10 years to wear that way out. I really admired when I came to New York first, and I saw women walking to work in sneakers, and they get to their office and put high heels on. They thought you have to look a certain way. Or not be a female to get ahead. I don't know, I just don't think that is going to change anytime soon.

Rebecca: So then, how do you feel about, people say the fourth wave of feminism is happening right now with the third wave being in the 90s, the second on the 70’s, the first being in the late 1800’s with

Signe: Suffrage

Rebecca: Suffrage yeah, but feminism happening right now with Trump being elected. Cause you mentioned when you came to New York you mentioned that women were influenced by Sex and the City. How are women behaving right now in New York since that is close to where a lot of the political action is happening, what changes have you noticed?

Signe: Now there is a change, that is for sure. Before elections, I saw the new generation coming to New York and maybe it is more down to earth and practical and you know, trying to figure out and develop in a different way through their appearances and through their philosophical questions, ‘Who am I’, ‘What do I do’, ‘What do I eat‘, you know and all that so.

But I don't really have any conclusions, because I see a new thing where, I don't know, I don’t have the means to formulate. But I did have anecdotal. But I did go to D.C. on the Women's March. It was amazing, we got to see a lot of young women there, a lot of young women, like young, like 16, 18, you know. But then you overhear conversations and they have no idea, they don’t know.

They’re like you ask questions, ‘What does that sign mean that you are holding?’, ‘Do you know what it means?’, and they are like ‘I don't know, some sign, somebody gave it to me.’

Or some girls said some letters on their faces and they are like ‘We don't know’. ‘So why are you putting these letters on your face?’ ‘Oh, because we saw other people do that.’

I don't know. We are social animals so we copycat, we color other people's sheep very often. We emulate each other. We think, the mainstream media and mainstream TV shows, mainstream movies, they influence a lot.

What young generations are gonna do and how they are gonna think and see themselves in the world. So, I mean, small movie like My Love Affair with Marriage is not gonna change in a big way. But if there are enough small movies, enough of them, maybe that will change something.

Rebecca: Well, I look forward to seeing and hearing a lot more of your work, because you’ve gained another fan through me. I don't know if a lot of people told you that in person, but I really like your work and I really enjoy it.

Signe: Eh thank you, well thank you so much, so keep in touch and let me know if you need anything.