Mercy of Vishnu - QA

Answers by Shri Kesava Rao Tadipatri (denoted by KT)

It is said that Vishnu's act of creation is a merciful act, that he's created the world so that jivas could do their sadhana and attain mukti. While it's hard to appreciate that, at least one can understand.

KT: The crux of the matter is that one who finds hard to appreciate, has not understood at all. They fall on the same side.

But what puzzles me is, Why create in this pattern? Why give a fragile human body that feels a lot of pain? why natural disasters, diseases and the like? All that doesn't seem relevant to our sadhana, not conducive.

KT: In fact that is most conducive. Now, the starting trouble is to think "I know better than God how all this should be". Hypothetically, if every being is given a strong and perfect and long lasting body with no fear of any mishap and guaranteed happiness, then most of the beings will not even turn to God and will spend the time basking in beaches or going crazy. No matter how evil one behaves, a guaranteed happy and long life is assured. Then why would one hesitate to do any amount of heinous crimes?

All the hardships in life are to kindle the fear of sin and punishment. There is a saying "sankaTa bandAga VenkataramaNa" (one thinks of God only in hardships). Even with all this, one is very haste to think "I am God". If all is perfect, then that feeling of "I am God" will push forward even more, I guess.

Suppose we take the example of cancer, a patient who suffers by losing his hair, feeling enormous amount of pain and so on, he can neither live nor die. What did he do to deserve such pain?

KT: Do any of us know what he did in his prior lives? Also on another point it is equally haste to jump to the conclusion that the beggars and those who suffer are asura-s. Compassion is a great quality and it is none of our business to assess the fruits.

One must not desist from action. One must not think what made them get those fruits. "karmaNyevAdhikAraste..."

I just don't understand how such pain could be conducive to sadhana.

KT: But do you know if that person did any sAdhana, when such pain was not given to him?

Why is Vishnu making the jivas suffer....so that they could be happy by attaining mukti???? That doesn't make sense.

KT: Many fritter away time, energy and whole life, when things are good, but complain when they are not. Does that make sense? Vishnu makes the jivas suffer based on their actions. If not, according to you, everyone gets always happiness irrespective of their actions. Then where is the incentive to do god acts? Mukti is not a commodity. It is the ripened state, where one enjoys/suffers as per "naija" or inherent svabhAva.

If at all creation is for the purpose of sadhana, why can't it be a creation free of all this pain, specially from diseases, natural calamities and countless other disgusting entities (like bugs) that trouble us endlessly?

KT: Are you sure that people will do sAdhana if what you say is given to them? I firmly believe "no". Also it is but a chaos that all reap good fruits only, irrespective of the acts that they indulge in.

I don't see his mercy in any of this, specially in the act of creation and the type of creation. Am I missing something here? Or, does mercy have another meaning?

KT: Yes, you are missing a lot. God gives the results as per the deeds of the jIva and does not mess with anything though He can. That is His mercy. If what you wish comes to be true, the evil will do "vilaya tANDava" only. The good will be scared that the evil will not be punished and disappointed that their good has no rewards. The evil will indulge a lot more in evil as there is nothing that dissuades them and will be throwing a wicked laughter to the good for their wasted efforts.

Also when you doubt the mercy of the Lord, being affected by the cockroaches, just realize that you were not born as one of the cockroaches and that will make you think high about His mercy for what He has Given rather than feel upset for what He has not given.

The topic pertains to the age-old question -

Is the Supreme God all the following four at the same time?

1. Omnipresence (All-presence)

2. Omnipotence (All-powerful)

3. Omniscience (All-knowing)

4. Omnibenevolence (All-kind)

The argument is -

If He is present everywhere, knows everyone's suffering, all-merciful towards all and all-powerful to eradicate everyone's suffering, then there should not be any suffering in the world. However we do see the suffering in this world. So one of the above must be untrue.

The answer comes from the siddhAnta that the eternal jIvas indulge in acts as per their inherent nature and the mercy of the Lord is that He preserves their eternality and inherent nature giving them the results impartially, thereby offering an assurance that nothing will be meddled with. Changing the nature of a jIva is tantamount to killing that jIva and recreating another jIva and thus He will never do that.

Comment :- Vishnu is the Sole Leader of the Universe... He is Apta Kama ( a Complete Entity )...

This is a Sport for Him which he plays enjoy fully.

KT: When it is mentioned "sport" (lIla) in case of Lord, it must be noted that He does effortlessly, but not to reap any joy.

All the Satvik Jivas who are already Muktas get chance to Enjoy there inherent Bliss. For their Anand Abhivyakti Universe is Created..Preserved....etc....

KT: The universe that is created is for the sake of amukta jIvas, but not for mukta jIvas.

The original question is not about mukta jIvas, but "how will the universe full of suffering indicate mercy of the Lord?"

Note that I wrote "They fall on the same side" and not "They are the same".*** Then there's no problem.

KT: Alright. However, the answer for the question - "which of the 3 categories (out of X, Y and Z) that I mentioned in my prior mail, you fall in" has not been given. That will be useful to proceed further.

Again same thing. Either it is "half cup full" or "half cup empty". Seeing so many, who go after the shAstra-s, I feel it is working. Seeing so many still rejecting God someway or other you think it is not working.***

Does that mean God is incapable of accomplishing certain things?

KT: No, it means that God does not interfere with the incapacity, which is inherent for certain people. Just because one can change/do anything, does it make sense to change all margosa trees by taking away bitterness and filling with sugarcane sweetness. Sugarcane is sugarcane and margosa is margosa.

It does make sense. Why not. The claim of such hypothetical person itself is a subjective notion.****

It's a real person, whose days are numbered.

KT: The person is real, but how do you know that all the claims are true? All the visible things like sickness and short life are understandable. What about other things like the knowledge about the Supreme Being or the tatvaj~nAna (which are invisible)?

Let us take current day to day life itself. There are mood swings for people. They are extremely nice in their good mood and behave terribly in bad mood. If that were the case, how do you know what is the inherent nature of a person.**** Let me put it this way. If a person has no arms or legs, he's a beggar, cancer patient, and so on and so forth, you come to the following conclusion:

KT: As usual, you are indulging in defective and hasty logic, with presumptions, made by yourself.

1. What makes ou think that you can judge someone is sAtvik or tAmasik?

2. shAstra-s do not sanction the freedom to anybody and everybody to label others.

3. As I mentioned, a majority that we come across are a mixture of these qualities. There is no pure sAtvika and there itself your entire logic below is flawed.

4. With all your wild assumptions, one birth may not even be sufficient to gauge.

2) That person is satvic, yet due to karma, he's suffering.

KT: How do you know if he is pure sAtvik. Can't he be a mixture? Infact he is so, unless you think that he is Vayu or Kali.

A: Due to temporary influence of tamo guna.

Q: Gunas are jada and do not have the intelligence to act on their own. If other jivas are responsible, does it take place with or without Hari's sanction? If yes, Hari is responsible. If no, Hari is not fully independent. Which one is it?

KT: You did not understand simple point. Pls see the example of sugarcane and margosa. Just because, one has ability, if margosa is changed to sugarcane, that is equivalent of destroying margosa and creating sugarcane. That is not right.

Jiva's doing an act takes place with Hari's sanction only and He does that as per the svabhAva of the jIva. Since He is independent, He also is free from undergoing the fruits of action. The dependent jIva only undergoes what he has done. The jiva with ahankara thinks that he is the doer.

A: It takes place with hari's sanction.

Q: Which means, Hari is responsible for a satvik jiva committing tamasic acts, yet the helpless satvik jiva has to suffer the consequences by becoming a beggar, leper and what else not. Is all this hari's mercy? Well, only Hari knows the answer to that, right?

KT: Let us take a hypothetical case. There is a good guy G. There is a just and great king K. G has done all good acts all his life. One day he got into some hot discussion with someone and chopped off his head in public. The king gives a severe punishment to G. If some third party S comes and argues that G led such a good life and so does not deserve any punishment, and the king let go G? It is a very crude example and is meant to drive a point.

We humans are R--- mostly and fall in various categories.**** But how do we know we're manushyas? because we have a human body? So did Duryodhan.

KT: True. But his svarUpa is declared in the scriptures. The svarUpa of all of us is not declared in the scriptures. Then what are we? The prayatna gives some indication. For a starter see, BG

tasya kartAramapi mAM vid.hdhyakartAramavyayam.h || IV-13||

na mAM karmANi limpanti na me karmaphale spR^ihA |

iti mAM yo.abhijAnAti karmabhirna sa badhyate || IV-14||

Wasn't Sri Kanaka Dasa the incarnation of Yama Dharmaraj? Why did he have to go through all the humiliation of being low-caste? he suffered his whole life. Even Sri Raghavendra had to suffer grinding poverty, despite being a karmaja devata.

KT: How do you know? You are applying your standards to them. This can mean

1. Even they are bound by prArabdha

2. Ones like us cannot apply our standards to them. Sri Raghavendra swamy does not care for that poverty. When he could bless so many devotees with his powers, can't he just dispose off his own poverty? May be he was not affected by its influence.

If they had to suffer, what chance do we have?

KT: How do you know that they suffered?

Does this help them in any way? Guidance for this cannot come thru emails. You have to find a guru, who can answer your questions.*** That's Hari's prerogative, isn't it? It's all in his hands, and if he doesn't find me a guru, how can you blame me?

KT: All you are worried about is a "blame game" like a kid - "Who is to be blamed? If you can't find any, I will blame everyone including God, but me."

Or, are you suggesting I can't even talk/think about these things until I find a guru.

KT: I am not suggesting any, but informing you that you can't have an answer, until God finds you a guru and graces you thru that guru. Surely it is God's prerogative and he will find you a guru if you deserve one.

His absolute freedom makes all His acts absolutely perfect.**** A dictator has absolute freedom.

KT: That is where your ignorance lies. Even a dictator has no absolute freedom. He does not even have control over his health, strength or life (just to list a few). What happened to a dictator like Hitler? You need to brush up the basic concepts first.

Are his acts absolutely perfect? Is it possible that Vishnu's freedom is the cause of all these problems, because his freedom cannot be suppressed by any jiva.

KT: That is what Hiranyakashipu also thought and just the opposite was conceived by his own son. They got exactly what they deserved.

Put simply, too much freedom is dangerous, isn't it? Maybe, that's true in his case.

KT: There may be many reactions to that. You listed one. I see a different one as listed by Sri Vadiraja.

"yaddhitam tava bhaktAnAM asmAkaM nR^ihare hare |

tadAshu kAryaM kAryaj~na praLayArkAyutaprabhA|"

"Oh Lord Hari, Narasimha, resplendent with thousand suns of pralayakAla, whatever is favorable and auspicious to your devotees like us, please do that, as you know the best."

(I do not know what is good and you know what is good for us.)

In other words, you have two choices. Go head-on opposing the God, or surrender completely leaving everything to His hand.

That being the case, and seeing the helplessness of the man it makes even a lot more sense to rush to the Lord's feet knowing that He is the Controller.**** But the problem doesn't vanish by doing so, so people lose confidence in God. OTOH, if God solves their problem asap, people will then develop more faith. What's the point in making poor jivas suffer and NOT helping them later on? It'll make the jivas bitter and more atheistic.

KT: By your own strange logic, Sri Raghavendra swamy and Sri Kanakadasaru, who suffered so much must have turned to atheism, but you know what was the outcome. When beaten and burnt, the gold will shine even more.

The easiest way you can answer yourself is to remember that if jIvas are not responsible for their nature, they are also not responsible for the fruits that come as a result.***

They are not responsible, which means Vishnu is responsible. In short, even though jivas cannot be blamed for their actions, Hari yet forces them to taste bitter fruits. Is this what you're suggesting?

KT: No, what I am suggesting is that churning the milk ocean, can yield hAlAhala and also amR^ita. When squeezed, the fangs of a snake spews out the venom and when squeezed, the udder of a cow yields milk.

Shri KrishNArpaNamastu !!!