Michael Witzel and Romila Thapar
Lalit Mishra <mishra.lalit@gmail.com>
Attachments12:02 PM (2 hours ago)
to witzel, Romila, aryamanchetas, 28santoshdubey, enthusiast.sah., rb20281, ssmfus, me, chandramouli_s, thegreeenforest, James_Fitzgera., prof.hvtiwary, rao, astronomy102, astrologer108, neera_dt, Bibhu, michel, Sanjay, shivraj, Shivaji, Rajender, Ghan.shyam47, rajendra.bisoyi, sshriaa
History of India or of any country, culture or civilization is invariably history of entire mankind and intentional wrong presentation of history is a serious offense, Romila Thapar (Professor Emeritus, JNU ), M Witzel ( Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard), Asko Parpola many more of their likes, must understand this
Knowing Sanskrit is a pre requisite for writing on Vedic Age of India that Romila Thapar never understood, relied upon secondary resources, un verified resources and boasted among innocent sub-ordinates of JNU that her superficiality is the genius on Vedic age of India.
Their obnoxious writing must be exposed to every student of JNU/DU/IIT/IIM/Other campuses, there are more than 10 million students in these campuses who must know that these so called, self proclaimed Vedic Scholars are more ignorant and under informed then freshers getting admitted in campuses.
The age of false writing of history is finished herewith.
While these people have been writing false history, we have some seasoned great authors of contemporary world such that -
Hindi
1) Dr BB Lal, Author of half a dozen important books.
2) Dr Bhagwan Singh, his latest book on works of "DD Kosambi" is an eye opener, another master piece, he penned is " The Vedic Harappans".
English
1) Dr Nicholas Kazanas, Greece, He learnt Sanskrit well before taking pen to write history and studied subject matter thoroughly, He has just penned a great book titled - "Vedic and IndoEuropean Studies", his one of the article on Sanskrit is also attached for readers.
2) Dr. Kenoyer, he did some excavations for Harappa Archaeological Research Project
All the best,
Lalit Mishra
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Lalit Mishra <mishra.lalit@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me share a secret that Harvard's Prof M Witzel realizing, he doesn't have depth in his Vedic studies, recently started studying "Brahamana Scriptures", he has been trying to procure late Vishva Bandhu's "Brahmanodhara" Kosha, which we in India, study in the very beginning phase of Vedic studies, Prof M Witzel is running in his 70s, All the best to him but what Romila Thapar w'd do, Some people live ignorant and some die ignorant, every body has his own share of luck !!
This is to add further that the concept of having a nation ("rashtra/राष्ट्र") found in RV, rejects the crap that Vedic People were just nomadic agro pastoral and establishes the truth that Vedic people had already built their nation by the time Rigveda was written that is linguistically proven to be India.
In one on one emails, few true scholars raised genuine expectations to show the place Yama lorded since popular belief is Yama is the lord of dead only, fortunately, Rigveda provides us sufficient information that some scholars had already been emphasizing in their writings for many decades. I am sure, Prof M Witzel w'd love to have this -
Indra had his first ride on a horse gifted by Yama and harnessed by Trita, So, Yama is personified in depiction as well as given lordship over a geographic region.
य॒मेन॑ द॒त्तं त्रि॒त ए॑नमायुन॒गिन्द्र॑ एणं प्रथ॒मो अध्य॑तिष्ठत् (ऋग्वेद, १.१६३.२ )
yamena dattaṁ trita enam āyunag indra eṇam prathamo adhy atiṣṭhat ( RV, 1.163.2 )
In Rigveda, horses are majorly procured from frontiers of Vedic age of India, I am waiting for Prof M Witzel to accept offer to have a joy ride on horses to his favorite Ural Steppe.
Let's give Prof M Witzel some time to get prepared !
Lalit Mishra
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Lalit Mishra <mishra.lalit@gmail.com> wrote:
Romila Thapar and M Witzel like shallow authors do not care applying basics of philology in their studies, they also do not know that Vedic people used to call their nation "rashtra/राष्ट्र ", a word that is attested in Rigveda no less than 15 times and it's very very significant that the word "rashtra/राष्ट्र " is nearly absent IE languages other than Sanskrit whereas it remained continue in India till now, which is sufficient to say Vedic age India has been the nation or "rashtra/राष्ट्र " of Vedic people. Unfortunately, Indian authors too have not noticed it, somebody needs to study Rigveda thoroughly before writing Vedic history
The mantra quoted ( RV, 7.84.2 ) makes it amply clear that Vedic people were keen on spreading their nation "ashtra/राष्ट्र" which is attested in latest archeological excavations of BMAC sites, BMAC sites prove Vedic influence in those remote places. The Vedic influence can be found upto Turkey.
यु॒वो रा॒ष्ट्रं बृ॒हदि॑न्वति॒ द्यौर्यौ से॒तृभि॑रर॒ज्जुभि॑: सिनी॒थः । परि॑ नो॒ हेळो॒ वरु॑णस्य वृज्या उ॒रुं न॒ इन्द्र॑: कृणवदु लो॒कम् ( RV, 7.84.2 )
Further, a sincere study of Rig Vedic mantras (RV, 10.58.1, 10.58.3, 10.58.5, 10.58.9) makes it unambiguously clear that Vedic people were fond of going on long long travels to distant places beyond high mountains, sea and deserts ( Note : the word of desert, is found at least 10 times in RV) and some of these travelers used to get settled in those distant places for longer period, hence, later on, an urge was felt among Vedic people to remind these travelers to not to fall in affection with those distant places and come back to their original land which they call Rashtra ( राष्ट्र ), here are specific mantras
यत्ते॑ य॒मं वै॑वस्व॒तं मनो॑ ज॒गाम॑ दूर॒कम् । तत्त॒ आ व॑र्तयामसी॒ह क्षया॑य जी॒वसे॑ (RV, 10.58.1)
यत्ते॒ भूमिं॒ चतु॑र्भृष्टिं॒ मनो॑ ज॒गाम॑ दूर॒कम् । तत्त॒ आ व॑र्तयामसी॒ह क्षया॑य जी॒वसे॑ ( RV, 10.58.3)
यत्ते॑ समु॒द्रम॑र्ण॒वं मनो॑ ज॒गाम॑ दूर॒कम् । तत्त॒ आ व॑र्तयामसी॒ह क्षया॑य जी॒वसे॑ (RV, 10.58.5)
यत्ते॒ पर्व॑तान्बृह॒तो मनो॑ ज॒गाम॑ दूर॒कम् । तत्त॒ आ व॑र्तयामसी॒ह क्षया॑य जी॒वसे॑ (RV, 10.58.9)
Hope , to see some sincerity among these shallow authors and superficial academicians
Lalit Mishra
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 12:06 AM, shobhan ganji <shobhan_ganji@yahoo.com> wrote:
Bhagawanji,
Thank you for mentioning about the Indian clowns who are feeding these wretched scholars in the west. The funny thing is that they don't know Vedic Sanskrit thoroughly, they are closed minded, they have the hatred agenda underneath their 'Hindutva label' which they frequently resort to. I think we must not allow their hatred agenda to be perpetuated which is completely devoid of truth. I would like to congratulate you and Lalit for taking on Mr. Witzel. Even Sir Kazanas had taken on Mr. Witzel in the past which is praiseworthy. One wonders why hate is a prime motivation for his rumblings. How can Harvard University allow this kind of hatred compaign right under their nose. Truth should be the motivation for any scholar's work. There is so much wisdom, knowledge , beauty in Vedic Hymns. Witzel should focus on this rather than resorting to cheap tactics of Hate in rediculing B.B.Lal. Inspite of continuous rebuttal, he will continue his hatred agenda . He hardly seems to learn lessons from the past . Coming to Romila Thapar, she hardly understand Vedic Sanskrit and comes to the defense of some of the wretched scholars in the west. Does she even introspect how deeply she is wrong in her research work ?. Minimum common sense is missing in her works. I wonder how she is getting away with this non-sense being part of JNU. It is utmost shame that GOI in the past sponsored her trips to the west to perpetuate her false theories. Sorry, if I have any mistakes in this email.
On Monday, February 23, 2015 9:59 AM, Lalit Mishra <mishra.lalit@gmail.com> wrote:
The context of this email info thread, has been limited to share Dr Bhagwan Singh's rejoinder to Prof M Witzel's review of BB Lal's latest book, with all marked.
However :
A) It's important to burst the myth being built by Romila Thapar in India that criticizing her erroneous shallow writings, is equal to becoming "Hindutvavadin", it is an impression drawn on account of her series of desperate speeches, she has been delivering off late in her defense.
She must understand that there is no harm in studying a subject matter thoroughly before writing books.
B) On Prof M Witzel, I don't know what to call a Harvard professor, who refers to another scholar's paper in his support but doesn't bother misrepresenting the conclusion drawn by same scholar, Pls have a look, how he plays tricks
Witzel quotes Haak :
[
Haak et al.: "Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe" on the "Yamnaya invasion" into Central Europe around 2500 BCE, with a *replacement* of the local agriculturalist population by as surprising 75%.
So why not a similar scenario for India??
]
Whereas Haak concludes :
[
This steppe ancestry persisted in all sampled central Europeans until at least ~3,000 years ago, and is ubiquitous in present-day Europeans. These results provide support for the theory of a steppe origin of at least some of the Indo-European languages of Europe
]
Haak's work has no relation to India or Indians, for reference, one may visit : http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433
Lalit Mishra
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Sanjay Deshpande <sanjay_a_deshpande@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Everyone;
Could I request that we all keep this discussion civil. There are enough unknowns and variables in this topic that the final solution if it ever comes may surprise us. After all archaeology which is the backbone on which all this is based, only deals with the fraction of material that has survived the passage of time - Harappan Seals for example.
I know I do not agree with everything that Dr. Farmer and Dr. Witzel believe strongly in starting with whether the Script was a language or not; but I know that the moment one says that something is definitely not right we are invariably proven wrong. I personally will keep an open mind and request that we discuss these issues point by point and where we cannot both agree at least agree to disagree until conclusive proof is found.
Sanjay
From: Lalit Mishra <mishra.lalit@gmail.com>
To: Romila Thapar <romilathapar@gmail.com>; shivraj singh <shivkhokra@yahoo.com>; shobhan ganji <shobhan_ganji@yahoo.com>; Shivaji Singh <prof_sivaji@yahoo.com>; "sanjay_a_deshpande@yahoo.com" <sanjay_a_deshpande@yahoo.com>; Rajender Krishan <RK@boloji.net>; Ghan.shyam47@yahoo.com; rajendra.bisoyi@yahoo.com; sshriaa@gmail.com; Narayan Singh Rao <Raonarayan2005@gmail.com>; Charu Gupta <charugup7@gmail.com>; Azad Kaushik <kaushik.azad@gmail.com>; rkhistory du <rkhistorydu@gmail.com>; Nicholas Kazanas <nidikaz@gmail.com>; "subhashk@cs.okstate.edu" <subhashk@cs.okstate.edu>; rmahalakshmi@mail.jnu.ac.in
Cc: witzel@fas.harvard.edu; Bhagwan Singh <b1931singh@gmail.com>; aryanbooks@gmail.com; Kosla Vepa <kaushal44@gmail.com>; csc@del2.vsnl.net.in; mss1@vsnl.com
Sent: Monday, 23 February 2015 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: your review of B.B. Lal's book
+ Prof DP Chattopadhyay
+ Prof VR Mehta
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Lalit Mishra <mishra.lalit@gmail.com> wrote:
+ Dr Nicholas Kazanas
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Lalit Mishra <mishra.lalit@gmail.com> wrote:
Prof Witzel,
Romila Thapar and others may also know Dr Bhagwan Singh's rebuttal to your funny acts and shallow studies on History of Vedic India. You have already entertained a lot when you demonstrated that you don't know difference in meaning of Samudra and a terminal lake. this could only happen in Harvard, through you.
:)
I hope you won't mind to have a fresh episode on Vedic horses, Pls respond back if you are interested in learning what Rigveda really says on Horses, let's plan a academic tour to Ural steppe and to guide us, we have Rig Vedic hymns.
Ma'm Romila,
You might be pleased to know that Harvard's sanskrit Prof. M Witzel doesn't know difference between Ocean and Terminal Lake, when written in Sanskrit and claims to having expertise in linguistic framework of Vedic Sanskrit, doesn't sound it funny to you.
However, you too are no exception, it doesn't look like that you have
read even first 20 hymns of Rig-Veda in 40+ years of your academic career and kept pouring all junks in your books, you too should have some intellectual and professional integrity and accountability, should you not.
You too, can not hide your ignorance whatever propaganda you do and let me assure you that you can never succeed in translating ignorance on subject matter under the label "Hindutva calling", any body who
shall read Rigveda, call you a superficial academician.
Best Wishes,
Lalit Mishra
From Kauthumiya School of Samveda,
India.
-------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bhagwan Singh <b1931singh@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:41 PM
Subject: your review of B.B. Lal's book
To: witzel@fas.harvard.edu, Lalit Mishra <mishra.lalit@gmail.com>
Dear Dr. Witzel
I know you are too busy a person and have to play many odd roles which good scholars avoid to save their time for their primary concern. This you could not afford to do. But this has rendered you ignorant of the basics. I would like to point out that the Rgvedic chariot was driven by ass - RV.VIII.85.7. One of the synonyms of ass was ashva, from which Prakrit ass, E. assinus, and ass are derived. It came from the waterlogged islands of Kacch. RV. I.62 and 63. That the Vedic wheel and rath were made by Brigus, hostile to Indra, Vishnu and devotees of Varuna. That the timber used in Rgvedic chariot was sisso and khadir typically Indian. That B.B. Lal has produced irrevocable proof of spoke-wheel in Harappan toys. He however missed the representation of six-spoke-wheel frequently occurring on seals - chakram SaDarpitam - symbolizing the six seasons of the year. Please improve your knowledge to by heard by serious scholars. You are pampered by Indian clowns occupying space which they did not deserve.
Bhagwan Singh