More rules users wanted...

"because the group was used by someone who then profited it from the advice they received. The new rule should really clear up how things like that are going to be handled, only so users don't get as heated as they did ."

I believe this is in reference to a user posting patterns they were creating on the sub and getting advice on how to better design the pattern. The user then put the pattern the subreddit collaborated on in their Etsy shop. We agree this was not cool and rule changes will be coming for that.

"Ban cartoons and video games or reduce them to a megathread."

No. No one's cross stitch is better than anyone else's. If someone does a Calvin and Hobbes and someone else does landscapes - they are both a great piece of work and one is not better than the other. If you believe your stitching is superior because you do not do pop culture, cartoon, or video game related pieces, I suggest you find a new group to belong to. None of us is any better than anyone else here.

"Limits to self-promotion [USER NAME REMOVED] spam specifically"

Absolutely. We will be reworking rule six.

Rule One: Be Supportive

Comments, Questions, Concerns Regarding Rule One

"I don't because EVERYTHING requires a stupid tag. Give us a little freedom for pete's sake. And if a person doesn't post the pattern for a completed piece immediately, a mod jumps on them. I used to like to post and then have people ask about things more. It develops more online friendship and commradery. "

To be fair, the mods give an hour sometimes more for someone to post a source. We feel that there is still a fair amount of discussion on posts. The reason we require a pattern is because we have a lot of users that come, drop a picture, and ghost. Then the sub is left with many people that want to make the same thing but have no information about the piece. By making it a rule and keeping track of who doesn't follow it, it's easier to eliminate the ghosters and get users to share their pieces and stories about their work on them.

"I don't want to post because of the stupid things that get reported or comments people make. Such as the person who reported the girl who posted the map she was working on titled something along the lines of "long distance boyfriend just left, time to start a new project" because they thought that meant the person was cheating. Also just how critical they are of others. All the other crafting subs are a lot more encouraging and friendly than this sub. "

We hate that our sub doesn't come off as friendly! The mods try and step in and nip any fights in the bud but we can't always get there! We also tag different users that we see being a problem and closely monitor their behavior on the sub. It's important to remember: this is the internet. Sometime we get stragglers that just come in to create drama - don't let that stop you from posting! I've noticed crafty people especially tend to be very elitist and judgy (it runs rampant in the Facebook cross stitch group I belong to). If everyone would just take a breath and enjoy the art and company it would be a much better place.

"I have seen users attack a poster for what seemed to be no reason "

Anytime there is a fight on the sub the mods tag all involved parties and keep a closer eye on them to hopefully stop the behavior or take necessary actions if the behavior tends to be recurring.

Rule Two: Read the FAQ/How To Before Posting a Question

"Is there a way to stickie the FAQ so it is available on mobile app? "

We'll be looking into this. We also will begin putting links to the FAQ/How To and other high interest posts (competition, free pattern....) at the end of all stickied posts on the sub, so be sure and check there if you can't find a link!

"The FAQ questions are all hidden behind other links. Seeing all the questions listed would be easier to see if your question was already asked. "

We can absolutely combine all of them into one listing to make it easier.

Rule Three: No Sharing/Requesting Copyrighted Patterns

"Request happens a lot anyways, just as people are trying to source something. Sharing copyrighted patterns is the definite no-no, I'm assuming. Together I'm not sure what it's saying."

What this rule is stating is that you cannot share or request copyrighted patterns. Here's a scenario: I post an FO saying "I bought a Dimensions kit and made it up!" You respond and say "I love that! Can you copy it and email it to me?" Right there, you have requested a copyrighted pattern and violated rule three. If I were to then copy the pattern and email it to you, or post it on the subreddit, I have violated rule three.

Some people go even further with it: Nintendo, Disney... are all copyrights so technically anything you buy on Etsy is copyright infringement because Nintendo and Disney did not give that Etsy user the right to use their image and products to design a cross stitch pattern after. We're not going that far with it. We're not the copyright police. We just don't want to see full pictures of patterns (so someone could easily zoom in and copy it), or for-sale patterns posted for free.

If you PAY for a pattern and someone wants it, give them the information about it ("Oh it's a Dimensions kit called "Honky Tonk Potato Salad!" Or "I got it from THIS etsy store!" That way you've given them the info, but haven't broken any rules. This is another major reason why Rule Four is a thing.

"I love Rule 3 (nothing copyrighted) and I am impressed how well everyone follows it. "

Rule Four: Include a pattern source in any FO posts.

"I dont see why someone always needs to share their pattern source when sharing a FO. It seems like a weird rule. Encourage it sure, but making it mandatory takes it a bit far. "

"Too rabid about enforcing the source rule. "

"Btw, i love how you enforce the need to have a pattern link included. That used to always be the 1st question. "

"I feel like the whole credit source rule is convoluted at the moment and would rather it be kept simple (i.e. 'Always credit source' or 'Up to maker to divulge'). It's great automatic advertisement when source is credited but as people get away with imageToPattern conversions and not crediting those sources and people get away straight up not crediting on WIPs regardless of how much is actually done, it seems like this community has a selective double-standard when it comes to attributing the original. "

Please message the mods, we'd like more information on what you mean here.

"sometimes freehand FO don't have patterns. I know I've never used an actual pattern to cross stitch. Just images, or things I draw on there. So I never post because of that rule. "

In that case a simple "Designed by me!" is all we need. That is more than enough to satisfy Rule Four! We can't wait to see what you've made up!

"I realize people may want the source of the FO and it makes it easier for it to already be in the post, but I think requesting sources may influence discussion. Or not. Idk"

Discussion has grown in FO posts since the implementation of rule four. When you think about it, how riveting is a discussion of "Where did you get that?" "From this store." Or, possibly not even getting an answer at all? There have been a lot of times that people have posted a piece from a popular seller and people have started up conversations about their work.

"Sometimes people lose patterns."

Totally happens! In that case post as a PIC.

"If a FO is from my store can I link it?"

Absolutely and please do! The only time it gets a little hairy is we used to have a user whose store name was their user name, in the title of all their posts, in the parent comment of all their posts, and in any comment they posted responding to someone - it got crazy shove-down-your-throat-advertising. As long as you don't do that and just say "I designed this, you can find it in my shop!" or something like that, you are golden!

"Rule 4: One of the reasons I started diligently visiting this sub is the adherance to pattern sourcing which isn't always found in the crafting community. You recently stopped allowing users to link to Pinterest or Google finds. My issue with this is that it ignores that these sites tend to gather stuff together in an easy to search format, and that includes free patterns. Some patterns that can be found this way are legitimately free patterns such as old patterns, freebies designed by bloggers, or freebies designed and shared for the sake of doing so such as with perler patterns. I have also found several paid patterns this way. "

The reason we stopped allowing Pinterest and Google links is because of a very intense fight between a couple of users that turned into some witch hunting which we are still dealing with to this day. The amount of Pinterest posts we were seeing that were actually copyrighted and the for-sale version was presented in the thread by other users became too big for us to ignore so we knee-jerk shut it down. We are open to revisiting it in the future and seeing how we can allow Pinterest and Google links that are fair to the user and designing community.

"Is it required to share patterns for FOs that only came with a paper pattern or that was made without actually using a pattern? "

ALL FO posts need the source. If you just eyeballed it or "got weird with it" say it! Be proud of your awesome lack of pattern! "I made this, just got an idea in my head and stitched it up. No pattern." That's perfect for us!

“Where did you find that?’ has always been the #1 question when someone posts something new, we are just trying to get everyone to answer that question and give artists and sellers credit for their work (and especially to take credit if they made the pattern! A simple, ‘I made this pattern.’ is enough. :)

"We need pattern sources in fo but not WIP? I like the need to post pattern sources, but it's confusing to me that you need them for fo but not wip"

We used to require it for WIPs as well but decided it wasn't necessary. Some people post a WIP daily, a few times a week, or even once a week. Especially if you're working on a long pattern that can get annoying and become a pain. Sourcing is only required for FOs now.

"Rule #4 is overkill. I really hate seeing mod postings telling people to post the information. Some people may just want to show off something without actually conversing with people. "

If you don't want to converse with people maybe Reddit isn't the social media site for you. Also, if you do want to avoid conversation posting the source info makes that a lot easier than posting a completed piece and having an inbox full of "Cool pattern! Where did you get it?" Seems like it would just help your cause more to post the source.

"Sometimes it has been difficult for me to find the source of patterns that I started a long time ago, and cannot always find the original source or the Etsy store may not be in business anymore."

If you've given it the ol' college try and tried to track down the information you can always post it as an FO with "I bought the pattern on Etsy forever ago but can't find the seller." Alternatively you could post it as a PIC.

"Sometimes finished pieces don't have patterns available, i.e. a gift from someone, the pattern was out of print, etc. "

If you don't have the pattern available you can always post it as a PIC :)

"It's nice to see that since the mod posts asking users to share the pattern source there have fewer instances of such posts. Nothing more frustrating that seeing something you want to stitch but can't find where to purchase it! "

95% of the reason we do it!

Mod Message On Rule Four

Sorry team, but rule four is staying! We have found that the longer this rule stays the less resistance we are getting against it and many people like the rule. It may be a pain in the ass sometimes but how many FOs have you looked at and been glad the source was right there so you could add it to your pile? We may revisit it from time to time but for now it will stay as is. For any confusion or questions on rule four, please see this PSA.

Rule Five: Preferred Image Hosts

"I also dont see what the issue with using any different image hosting site is. I personally do not enjoy using Imgur, I'm a photobucket kind of gal."

"Imgur and reddituploads are just targets for rebloggers and sharing anonymously so if a popular post starts making its way around the web, the source is likely to get lost or credit stolen. Allowing images via a shop, Instagram, Deviantart allows us to better maintain control of our work on the internet. "

"I have to use Photobucket at times as my image host as i have issues with imgur and at times with reddituploads D: "

"Who cares what image hosting site it is? People often post instagram anyway. "

"I have never posted a photo so I just don't know how to do this (rule 5). Although I also haven't bothered to look it up and learn myself"

Please message the mods! We'll walk you through it, we'd love to see your work!

Mod Message on Rule Five:

We will more than likely be eliminating rule five. Please remember to keep an eye on your self-promotion! If we click the link and it takes us to your page and there is a "Shop" button to click on, we'll consider that advertising your store. You are more than welcome to have a link to your store in the comments if it is an FO post.

Rule Six: Do Not Link Directly to your Blog/Store

Comments, Questions, Concerns Regarding Rule Six

"If the person requests a pattern or FO, and someone has it in their store, I'd say its fine' but ig they have a sale or new store or just promoting for more customers then no, this is not the place."

"Not sure why this is a rule? I can understand "Don't make a post just saying that you have a shop" but I think linking in comments should be allowed. Users can always downvote or report if the link is spammy. "

"I don't have a store, but I love finding new ones. I'm okay with people linking to their stores as long as it's not excessive and annoying "

"6 is pointless, let people post what they want. "

"Links to blogs/stores would help find more great patterns "

"Rule 6: I understand there's a line to walk with this so that the sub isn't spammed. However, I love to see the patterns stitched before I buy so allowing a shop owner to link directly the listing on an FO and only FOs would help encourage that. I also think that if they want to offer a decent free pattern and link, that'd be fine too. I don't think this rule should change to allow posting a newly opened shop, sales at a currently opened shop, or giveaway contests because I appreciate the lack of that on the sub. "

"Recently there's been a user consistently asking for pattern advice, but they're all for his etsy shop. I know this has been a topic, but he posted again this evening. It's a bit annoying to keep seeing this. "

"I don't have strong concerns with Rule 6, I just think it should be opened up a tad "

"I think if users are otherwise contributing to the sub (and not just spamming) they should be able to link to their blog/store. Or a weekly self promotion thread or something similar. "

"As to the last page (when it's okay to post a shop), I think the line is always difficult to draw. I'd like to support users who are just starting out. There has to be a litmus test to tell when a designer is being exploitative, though. If people are allowed to link to their shop in another person's WIP or FO to a pattern that's similar, then I feel like that's discounting the work the OP is putting in. "

"Please please please don't let this subreddit become swarmed with etsy shop links. Most stitchers do it for fun and it can be really frustrating when post after post is advertising. I like to see questions, wips, fo's, etc. Maybe create a new subreddit for etsy sellers?? Then people can browse new patterns for sale at their leisure, away from the rest of the subreddit. "

"I understanding not wanting the front page to be full of ads, but I think a lot of us have little boutique shops that are not a significant form of income, and I'm okay with seeing those linked. I think this is the kind of thing that can be handled on a case-by-case basis. However, if that's proven to be too difficult or time-consuming or controversial, then I agree with continuing with the rules as-is, about only linking when you post the FO. Or maybe this can all be solved by just having a [SHOP] tag? I know there are a lot of casual or occasional readers, and I'd like to be able to pimp a pattern I posted a few months ago. "

We actually used to have a [Seller] tag. Within a few hours of posting they were always downvoted past zero. It became quickly apparent that the community didn't want this place to become a large commercial, hence the start up of rule six. We're hoping with the craft fairs every few months, allowing sellers to link to their stores in FO posts, and the Continuous Craft Fair, this should help rule six feel a little more relaxed.

Mod Message on Rule Six

Rule six is always a tough one. We think with the amount of information we got from this survey we are confident with the following:

• You can post a link to your store in an FO posted by you. The link must be a parent comment. Do not post an FO that leads us directly to your store, make sure you use an image sharing site.
• You can post a link to your store in a comment if a user posts asking for a specific pattern.
• You can post a link to your store in the Craft Fair thread and make sure you're in the Continuous Craft Fair as well!
• You are offering a free pattern through your shop. (Please use the PATTERN tag for this). The pattern must be free with No Strings Attached. Do not require people to sign up for a mailing list to access the pattern. it must be ready to download and accessible from the link you share.

These little changes are opening up rule six a little bit more. We probably will never get to the point where we will have a SELLER or SHOP tag. We had one before and it was a hot mess. Lots of downvoted posts from sellers and not a lot of participation. We'll see how this goes and go from there.